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IDemo

(16,926 posts)
Fri May 1, 2015, 01:51 PM May 2015

Can Railroads Help Alleviate California's 4-Year Drought?

As California's four-year drought worsens and water supplies dwindle in the state, an old technology—railroads—could play a role in alleviating some water shortages.

"We certainly have that capability today," said Mike Trevino, a spokesman for privately held BNSF Railway, which operates one of the largest freight railroad networks in North America. "We carry chlorine, for example. We carry liquefied commodities."

Experts say the East Coast's plentiful water could cost cents per gallon to Californians and provide a stable, potable water supply for small communities. Obstacles include identifying a state willing to share some of its water, and securing the construction funds for key infrastructure work, including terminals that can handle water.

"We've actually spent some time on this and some energy, and there's merit; there's value for railroads to play a role in moving water," said Ed McKechnie, chairman of the American Short Line and Regional Railroad Association.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/can-railroads-help-alleviate-californias-4-year-drought-n352071

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Can Railroads Help Alleviate California's 4-Year Drought? (Original Post) IDemo May 2015 OP
Because of blizzards over the winter.... Shadowflash May 2015 #1
Very dirty water full of oil, salt and chemicals hack89 May 2015 #4
They make filters. They make drinking water from sewage. I'm sure they could handle it. Shadowflash May 2015 #5
True. But it dramatically changes the economics hack89 May 2015 #6
You can stick to your original point, your original point is correct CreekDog May 2015 #10
No, that is not possible CreekDog May 2015 #8
Why aren't you suggesting desalination then? CreekDog May 2015 #13
Won't work CreekDog May 2015 #7
OMG!.......O...M...G..... WillowTree May 2015 #11
thank you CreekDog May 2015 #12
Interesting approach. Plus infrastructure work = jobs. pinto May 2015 #2
It won't work. CreekDog May 2015 #9
Good points. pinto May 2015 #14
A temporary measure that doesn't address root causes Retrograde May 2015 #3
Nowhere in the article is there a mention of snow IDemo May 2015 #15
As a railroader, I would rather see water trains than oil trains. However, this is a band aid neverforget May 2015 #16

Shadowflash

(1,536 posts)
1. Because of blizzards over the winter....
Fri May 1, 2015, 01:57 PM
May 2015

.... the East Coast was actually running out of places to put snow. I always thought that they can just load it into railroad cars and truck it to the West Coast. By the time it got there, it would be water.

Partial solutions to TWO problems at one time.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
4. Very dirty water full of oil, salt and chemicals
Fri May 1, 2015, 03:50 PM
May 2015

There are good reasons cities can't dump snow in bays and rivers. Purifying that water would be an expensive proposition.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
10. You can stick to your original point, your original point is correct
Fri May 1, 2015, 04:45 PM
May 2015

no need to entertain this possibility and dismiss it based on economics.

The basic answer that still holds is that it basically can't be done.

What you'd need are:

First, the need for water would need to be at the same time a large East Coast snowfall (midwinter). This is not when reservoirs in California run dry, even during drought years. That happens during the summer when there are not large snowfalls in East Coast Cities.

Second, to treat the water, you'd need to melt it first, which you can't do when it's cold.

Second part B, nobody is shipping unmelted snow across country, period. The water content is such that it will be a fraction of the volume when it arrives.

Second, part C, when whole regions are paralyzed by snow, this is when you're going to 1) treat a huge volume of unmelted snow and 2) transfer, load and transport that huge volume of snow or water through the region?

Third, our rail and treatment systems are not linked to deliver treated water, end of pipe, to rail cars. They just aren't, so that's not going to happen.

There are so many ideas wrong with the idea...but I think the biggest one is the confidence that someone is right about their idea, above all the engineers and experts who have spent far longer thinking of these issues. Experts aren't always right, but people who don't even know the basic facts of what they are suggesting are almost never going to be as correct as an expert on their worst day.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
8. No, that is not possible
Fri May 1, 2015, 04:35 PM
May 2015

Now I will grant that sometimes a perfect solution can be suggested on the basis of 30 seconds of thinking and no understanding of the problem or the solution.

However, your idea isn't one of those once in a lifetime examples.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
13. Why aren't you suggesting desalination then?
Fri May 1, 2015, 05:44 PM
May 2015

It's also not the solution, but if you concede that all this snow/water would need to be filtered, why not skip the train ride across the United States and just filter water from the West Coast?

Again, that's not the solution, but it's more plausible than your idea and your idea is impossible.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
7. Won't work
Fri May 1, 2015, 04:28 PM
May 2015

Period.

Seriously, if you think trucking melting snow from the East Coast to the West Coast to alleviate the drought, there are so many things you're not understanding it can't be covered in one post.

I guess the bigger question is why you'd think you're correct.

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
11. OMG!.......O...M...G.....
Fri May 1, 2015, 05:03 PM
May 2015

There was this art student when I was in college 7,000 years ago. I never "got" his art.......it was pretty out there. He was married to one of my dance profs who was very patient with him 'cause, as cute as he was, he was pretty out there sometimes, too. She obviously loved him, which made me like her even more.

Anyway, he had this same brilliant idea way back all those years ago. He wanted to fill up all these boxcars with snow and train them to wherever it was that was having a drought back then. Poor guy was so deflated when someone pointed out that by the time the train got to Arizona or wherever it was, that boxcar that had been full of snow when it left Wisconsin would have about an inch-and-a-half of water in it. Wouldn't be enough to water one small lawn.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
9. It won't work.
Fri May 1, 2015, 04:38 PM
May 2015

At best you're talking about an emergency infusion of water to a small community that has completely exhausted its water supply.

That's not alleviating drought and the same thing could be done with trucks, but by the time you need this kind of "solution" it isn't a solution at all, because it's not big enough or efficient enough, nor connected enough to do anything of the scale needed to solve or even alleviate a regionwide drought.

Retrograde

(10,073 posts)
3. A temporary measure that doesn't address root causes
Fri May 1, 2015, 03:09 PM
May 2015

like changing climate patterns, or the wisdom of growing thirsty crops like alfalfa in an arid environment.

I'd rather see an effort by the Department of Agriculture to get more diversity in crops nationwide instead of relying on California. And on other states developing high-tech centers to relieve some of the population increase.

(fwiw: I got rid of my lawn several droughts ago. Now I'm waiting for the people with the huge estates down south to do the same).

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
15. Nowhere in the article is there a mention of snow
Fri May 1, 2015, 09:54 PM
May 2015

This isn't about dumping snow which has been scraped off of Walmart parking lots into railroad cars. It is specifically about working with water supplies from communities with a surplus that they are willing to share. It is at least more realistic than the ridiculous pipeline scenarios we've seen from Captain Kirk and others.

neverforget

(9,434 posts)
16. As a railroader, I would rather see water trains than oil trains. However, this is a band aid
Fri May 1, 2015, 10:05 PM
May 2015

on a gaping wound.

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