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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn debt or jobless, many Italians choose suicide
By Claudio Lavanga, NBC News
ASOLO, Italy On Tuesday, Generoso Armenante, a 49-year-old former security guard at a convenience store in the southern town of Salerno, left home after having lunch with his wife and quietly found a secluded spot where he hanged himself.
Armenante had been fired more than a year ago, and had been struggling to find another job ever since. Next to his body he left a letter: I decided to end it because I am a failure. I cant live without work.
Unfortunately, he is not alone. Scores of other Italians have also chosen to take their own lives in response to the strain of the economic crisis and the consequent austerity measures.
On Tuesday, two other people committed suicide, apparently due to financial hardship. A 60-year-old businessman in Milan hanged himself from a tree after failing to repay his debts.
And a 64-year-old bricklayer in Salerno, who lost his job around Christmas, shot himself in the chest. He left a similar message: I cant live without a job.
The three men are casualties of the debt crisis that has pushed Italys economy to the brink over the past year and put considerable strain on most Italians, especially those who own or work for small businesses. At least 34 people have killed themselves citing economic reasons since the start of the year, according to the Italian Association of Small Businesses.
http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/09/11621840-in-debt-or-jobless-many-italians-choose-suicide?lite
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)bills to Angela Merkel and her minions, along with a note telling her to shove her backfiring "austerity" bullshit that is only causing the situation to get worse in every nation where it's been imposed. Robert Reich and Paul Krugman can explain the economic whys of that far better than I can, but Merkel just isn't listening and refuses to even consider listening. People can't pay the higher and higher taxes demanded of them if they can't find work or, in the case of many Greek and Italian state and public workers, are not being paid for their work but still expected to work and pay ever higher taxes that then get sucked up into the payments demanded by Merkel and Company instead of being put into growth measures that would create and maintain jobs and economic growth. Why the hell she and her minions cannot see that is simply beyond me.
Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)
Post removed
liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)and having no money and no job and no idea when you'll get either, yet still being expected to pay draconian taxes imposed by another country and facing sanctions if you don't, can really do a number on you and your sanity. How about some compassion and care for those caught in this horrible situation, largely thanks to the anti-growth austerity bullshit?
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)I can understand desperation. I can understand anger. Depression is anger directed inwards by people who will not take action even when their backs are against the wall. I don't need a lecture. If you think that your sense of compassion is greater than mine, what have you done other than to post on a board?
liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)even when their backs are against the wall". You're kidding right? You DO know that the cruelly invidious thing about depression is that it totally saps any ability to take any action whatsoever? And how do you know these people didn't take any action? How do you know they didn't spend months in a fruitless search for work, which, in a nation with over twenty percent unemployment (more than that in Greece and up to FIFTY PERCENT unemployment for younger people)? Many times, depression comes precisely BECAUSE no action you take is working at all, no matter what you do. And yes, you DO need a lecture. Being hateful to people who're economically depressed enough to take their own lives is truly sick and sad. And it doesn't belong here on this site.
And as for what I've done-a helluva lot, in a lot of different areas, including mental health and particularly since I'm prone to depression myself and want to help others in the same boat. I just don't go around bragging about it 'cause I don't do it for pats on the back.
varelse
(4,062 posts)it is a recognized medical condition, not a moral position.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)varelse
(4,062 posts)is not the same as endorsing the fact that it is sometimes fatal.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)The issue is whether the anger that some of the Italians feel should be directed internally or externally.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)They couldn't get work. They *state* that they can't survive without work.
Rather than crawl around begging they preferred to chose their own death.
How is that "mental illness"?
It's ridiculous.
liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)suicide, which was devastating for our family, even these twelve years later. But do we get angry at/blame him, call him names, stupid, put him down, etc.? No, we most assuredly do not. Why? Because he was in the grip of a horrendous bout of depression/paranoia, as part of his bipolar illness, which is MEDICAL and BIOCHEMICAL. He was not a "moral failure", he didn't "refuse to take action when his back was to the wall" or any other such bullshit hateful garbage you're spewing. I hope you never suffer from depression or related conditions and, if you do, you're treated and considered a lot better than you would have done for others in the same situation.
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)You should do some more research before making such ignorant comments, implying the person is weak or lazy. It is very insulting and cruel to those whose lives have been rocked by this mental illness. Great insights have been gained through thermo-imaging. Please enlighten yourself.
http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih5/mental/guide/info-mental-b.htm
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2011/mental-illness-defined-as-disruption-in-neural-circuits.shtml
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/brain-mental-illness
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)I can give you an explanation. I can't give you understanding.
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)Depression is anger directed inwards by people who will not take action even when their backs are against the wall.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)depression represents anger directed inward..."
from Mood Disorders and Suicide
http://www.csun.edu/~hcpsy002/0135128978_ch08.pdf
See also DSM IV TR.
Did you think that this concept originated with me? Or do you disagree with Freud, his followers, and DSM IV TR?
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)How does it correlate with the new findings and current research, particularly in the area of brain mapping? Did you even look at the links I've provided?
liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)has largely fallen out of favor, like so many other theories of its originator. Much more recent and current research that says otherwise, as well as that shows it's often biochemical/physical, is far more relevant and is the norm today. Although Freud would have had a lot more understanding than you do for those suffering from it.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Quantess
(27,630 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)depression or suicidal ideation. It's not that they think it's that "great" of a choice, it's that, in their pain, they see no other choice, they just want the pain to end and can't see any other way out. Not that you care.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)But they might feel death is their best option. To cease to exist would be the best thing that could ever happen to them.
Still don't get it? Never mind, you had to be there.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Quantess
(27,630 posts)I have "been there". I have felt suicidal.
Now, would you like to split hairs over whether death feels like a "great choice" or the "best choice"? Hopefully you will just back down and admit that you don't know what real depression is like.
Edit to add: maybe you just read the titles? Click on (View All) to read all responses. Just, FYI.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)It's good to see that you are not internalizing so much, or at least not so much at the present.
Don't fall back into your old thinking pattern. Get out more. Socialize more, and do so in a productive way.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)At Fri May 11, 2012, 02:24 PM you sent an alert on the following post:
Why do you belive that you have a monopoly? You have no factual basis for that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=675564
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)
YOUR COMMENTS:
This person is attacking everyone who has been clinically depressed. Also very condescending to me, personally. This jerk doesn't know me!
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri May 11, 2012, 03:00 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: As someone who has suffered from depression my entire life, I agree with the post and see nothing hurtful or condescending. If you're going to expose yourself on a site, you need to be prepared for all sorts of "helpful hints". I doubt he/she meant any harm.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: I've suffered on and off from clinical depression for years. I don't think this poster is being malevolent, just simple-minded and utterly uninformed about a very serious problem. This adds nothing to the discussion and just doesn't sit well with me.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Thank you.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Quantess
(27,630 posts)And, I'm pretty sure you don't get it.
Also, what "monopoly" are you talking about?
liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)Would you ask a diabetic or cancer patient if he or she were doing what they could to "think" it away?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)they see no way forward, no way out, no end in sight.
Sad choices, yes. But perhaps they prefer a quick end to slow starvation.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Apply your own innate logic.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Eating while one tries to find people to make a rebellion with is a problem, as it is while making the rebellion. Current conditions give little indication that any rebellion is likely to succeed.
Yet the suicide is blamed because he didn't make one.
Maybe this tendency to focus on the individual and his "mental illness," his "stupidity," his lack of courage and innovativeness as he didn't "choose" to make a rebellion instead of getting rid of the self that seemed to have no social or economic reason to exist -- is part of the problem.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)except to dismiss it with a personal attack
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Nothing wrong with that.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Suicide by one's own hand versus suicide by another's. One is swift and certain. The other may not be. Still doesn't make the choice stupid.
Apply your own logic. You still have not explained why it is automatically a stupid choice. Some people choose to rebel. Others may have already had the rebellion beaten out of them and choose to simply leave. You don't know the individual circumstance, and therefore you don't know the basis of their choice.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Dash87
(3,220 posts)Depression is a disease, and imo, suicide is the fatal end result of this disease. While many who are depressed do not kill themselves, I wish the social stigma of suicide would go away so that we can talk about it.
I have never been clinically depressed myself, but I know people who are. Suicide absolutely flips peoples' worlds upside down, and rips lives apart.
And as one who has been clinically depressed several times (including when I was 10 years old) I appreciate your understanding and empathy.
treestar
(82,383 posts)statistically. Aren't most Italians Catholic? Suicide is not an option for Catholics.
TheMightyFavog
(13,770 posts)I remember reading somewhere that the Aokigahara Forest near Mt. Fuji that has been a popular suicide spot for some reason, they have suicide helpline signs placed all over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara