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think

(11,641 posts)
Sat May 23, 2015, 10:47 AM May 2015

Gaddafi's home town falls to Islamic State in anarchic Libya

Gaddafi's home town falls to Islamic State in anarchic Libya

BY ULF LAESSING - Thu May 21, 2015

Standing guard at his frontline post, Libyan soldier Mohammed Abu Shager can see where Islamic State militants are holed up with their heavy weaponry less than a kilometer away.

The militants have effectively taken over former dictator Muammar Gaddafi's home city of Sirte as they exploit a civil war between two rival governments to expand in North Africa.

~Snip~

Libya, which has descended into near anarchy since NATO warplanes helped rebels overthrow Gaddafi in a 2011 civil war, is now the third big stronghold for the Sunni Islamist group, also known as ISIS or ISIL, which declared a Caliphate to rule over all Muslims from territory it holds in Syria and Iraq.

Read more:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/21/us-libya-security-insight-idUSKBN0O610M20150521
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Gaddafi's home town falls to Islamic State in anarchic Libya (Original Post) think May 2015 OP
Yay! Humanitarian Intervention! betterdemsonly May 2015 #1
A failed Libyan state is a terrible regional danger, not to mention the ongoing suffering cali May 2015 #2
It seems we're often presented with a false choice. Igel May 2015 #3
 

betterdemsonly

(1,967 posts)
1. Yay! Humanitarian Intervention!
Sat May 23, 2015, 11:22 AM
May 2015

It does the heart good to see such success! Thank Clinton, Powers and Rice for this! Women must be more belicose than Men to get ahead in the world.

Igel

(35,191 posts)
3. It seems we're often presented with a false choice.
Sat May 23, 2015, 12:47 PM
May 2015

Often we're doing the presenting, which is a problem.

The choice is often posed as "do we support a democracy or a dictatorship?" Whichever you support is taken as a sign of your deepest political aspirations and yearnings.

The possibility of failure or of just being wrong seems never to occur to some people. It's a strain on humble servants these days to consider that they may be fallible or imperfect. So the idea of supporting the one that won't most likely lead to really, really bad outcomes can only mean you're a fascist. Or some other general term of abuse.

I loathed Qaddhafi. When he was hated by the right and often liked by the left. When he was rather liked by the right and hated by the left. I saw no reason to change my mind. Same for Assad.

I also thought the Libyan R2P intervention was a horrible idea. Same for Syria.

I also tended to think that Qaddhafi's "gates of hell" line and the obliteration of Benghazi that it threatened was just the same kind of hyperbole that Arafat, Saddam, and many other Arab leaders employ. A trope. A figure. One that's used fairly often. In the end, what results is far from pleasant. But it's certainly not Dresden or Nagasaki. Yet when those we "like" use it, well, it's obviously hyperbole. Ill-will carries the discourse a long way, no?

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