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SoutherDem

(2,307 posts)
Thu May 10, 2012, 11:41 PM May 2012

Why do some Americans think Bullying is OK?

When the movie Bully was released NPR on "Talk of the Nation" Neil Conan interviewed Harvey Wienstein who's company is distributing the movie. The interview was half a conversation between Neil and Harvey about the movie and stopping bullying. The other half were callers. One of the callers tells how her son was bullied, attempted and committed suicide. This was very touching to hear this mother who lost her son was now doing all she could to get the word out that bullying does real damage.

The last caller turned my stomach. Rather than putting in my own words here is that part of the transcript, it is longer than I normally would include but I don't feel comfortable editing this (please forgive me for this) I have also included the link to the transcript if anyone wants to read or stream the interview:



CONAN: Let's go to Tom. Tom is on the line with us from Iowa City.

TOM: OK. I think it's all ridiculous, to be honest, really, because I think we need bullying. I know I'm going to get a lot of people who'll disagree with what I'm going to say, but I think we need bullying to build character and build a backbone. Taking your kids out of school because somebody spits on them, you teach them to stand up for themselves. Put all this whining about, oh, my kids being - I was bullied as a kid. My daughter was bullied as a kid, but I didn't take her out of school because I believe you teach them to stand up for themselves. You spit on me, well, you fight back. Don't sit there and take them out of school because of crying. Don't sit there and whine because they come to you and then you're going to fix the boo-boo. You teach them to be independent. You teach them to stand up for themselves. You teach them to fight back. Because what happens is, you give the bully the power, OK? And that's really about it. Jut saw this movie (unintelligible)...

CONAN: So it's the victim's fault, Tom?

TOM: No. That's what I'm saying, you don't become the victim. Either you...

CONAN: Tom, you're right. You're going to get a lot of people who disagree with you.

WEINSTEIN: Oh, yeah, and I'll be one of them.

TOM: (Unintelligible).

WEINSTEIN: And, Tom, this Harvey.

CONAN: Tom.

WEINSTEIN: Isn't it a better idea that we don't need to place - we're not talking (unintelligible) one other thing, but what we're really talking about is, you know, let's not even have it in our culture. Why shouldn't it even be part of what we do? Why should it be part of our actions? Why should we need a knee-jerk reaction, that we have no need to bully?

I understand what you're saying about teaching your kids to stand up for what, you know, what's right, but also standing up for what's right means getting rid of the idea that our culture even allows that.

TOM: Well, I think the issue is, too - I mean, it's animal-based instinct. You look at every other species, they do the same thing. We are sanitizing ourselves to a point where you have to apologize for everything. You have to, I'm so sorry that I said something to hurt your feeling. Grow a backbone. Quite whining about it. You know, for example, the woman who lost her son. I am so sorry to hear that. I had a friend who lost their son, as well, to bullying, however, that friend who lost his son, his son, in my opinion, was weak. How are you going to sit there and let someone bullying caused you to kill yourself? It is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

CONAN: Tom, I'm going to have to stop there because we're running out of time, and I'm afraid I might react. Anyway, thank you very much for the call.


The ignorance shown by Tom is unbelievable and what is sad he isn't alone.

Tom called the one who commit suicide as "weak" suggested "growing a backbone" and fighting back,

Well that is exactly what some have done by taking guns to school and killing the bully. Is that what Tom wants?

It is usually the unpopular position to take but whenever I hear of a school shooting I ask were they bullied, and if they were I feel the shooter was a victim too.

The ignorance shown by Tom is unbelievable and what is sad he isn't alone. Too many people feel as Tom that bullying is actually good and build character. The only problem is when something goes wrong and one or more young people die.

[link:http://www.npr.org/2012/04/16/150732906/the-ratings-controversy-surrounding-bully|
38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why do some Americans think Bullying is OK? (Original Post) SoutherDem May 2012 OP
This is why I am opposed to happy childhoods. aquart May 2012 #1
I think Bob Altemeyer in his book "The Authoritarians" explains it very well. rhett o rick May 2012 #2
Because they are assholes with an eighth grader mentality? nt killbotfactory May 2012 #3
''Why do some Americans think Bullying is OK?'' DeSwiss May 2012 #4
Thanks, SoutherDem May 2012 #8
Because we have this idea that suicide is a form of weakness nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #5
Because our society worships violence gratuitous May 2012 #6
He survived bullying and thinks it's OK abelenkpe May 2012 #7
Yup, just take a martial arts class and you'll be fine! riderinthestorm May 2012 #9
Stun gun at school SoutherDem May 2012 #11
It's the bullies, not the bullied, who need to develop some character. gkhouston May 2012 #10
It's not "some". I think most people think so under the right circumstances. Our entire culture HiPointDem May 2012 #12
What makes you think this is an "American" problem??? guardian May 2012 #13
I said America SoutherDem May 2012 #14
... Cafemommy May 2012 #17
are you talking about yourself? provis99 May 2012 #19
Post removed Post removed May 2012 #29
sometimes it's much easier and less brain consuming to merely trivialize and minimize LanternWaste May 2012 #38
Tom called the one who commit suicide as "weak" suggested "growing a backbone" ProfessionalLeftist May 2012 #15
Bullying is everywhere. Cafemommy May 2012 #16
I'm sorry to read this happened to you. I have found that some of the worst bullies are adults. Raine May 2012 #21
Your post is so cryptic, there is no way to know if your complaints are valid. OKNancy May 2012 #28
could you link the posts? maddezmom May 2012 #34
Reported what over and over? Ruby the Liberal May 2012 #37
Sad! DianaForRussFeingold May 2012 #18
My son was bullied... meaculpa2011 May 2012 #20
Because... sendero May 2012 #22
I Think It's Simpler Than That ProfessorGAC May 2012 #24
Fair enough... sendero May 2012 #36
Violence is fucking awesome, that's why!! HughBeaumont May 2012 #23
In a patriarchal society, it is seen as "weak" to let others push you around. Jennicut May 2012 #25
Its the Reagan way NNN0LHI May 2012 #26
K&R redqueen May 2012 #27
Only the bullies themselves think that madokie May 2012 #30
Our myth of rugged individualism plays a big part, imo deutsey May 2012 #31
Tom was probably a bully. what an asshole! Odin2005 May 2012 #32
A bully has a good deal of emotional investment varelse May 2012 #33
I was at a friend's wake recently... meaculpa2011 May 2012 #35

aquart

(69,014 posts)
1. This is why I am opposed to happy childhoods.
Thu May 10, 2012, 11:43 PM
May 2012

A child who has never suffered makes a vile excuse for an adult.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
2. I think Bob Altemeyer in his book "The Authoritarians" explains it very well.
Thu May 10, 2012, 11:46 PM
May 2012

He calls them authoritarians but I call them bullies.

The book is free online.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
4. ''Why do some Americans think Bullying is OK?''
Thu May 10, 2012, 11:53 PM
May 2012

Probably because they're bullies themselves. As well as the fact that bulling is glamorized and held in high esteem by many in this country. This country's bullies have harassed and intimidated one group after another throughout its existence. Almost all of it with the conscious acquiescence of its people who either agreed with it or were too afraid to object.

- What else could we expect to be the result???

K&R

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
5. Because we have this idea that suicide is a form of weakness
Thu May 10, 2012, 11:59 PM
May 2012

or a sin.

When I worked on the suicide article for the paper, I did learn that suicide is actually pretty high among Caucasian Whites.

It is much lower in groups with fairly strong taboos.

I think these two are related. Might just propose a bear of an article for the paper on this as well. The last one took three months of pretty intense reading. And as a victim of bullying I have no clue if I want to go there.

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
7. He survived bullying and thinks it's OK
Fri May 11, 2012, 12:07 AM
May 2012

I'm sure he's perpetuated the cycle with his attitude too much like parents who hit their kids because theirs hit them and their parents before them. What is that? Stockholm syndrome?

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
9. Yup, just take a martial arts class and you'll be fine!
Fri May 11, 2012, 12:16 AM
May 2012

"Too many people feel as Tom that bullying is actually good and builds character. "


That just about nails it. They think this is so easily solved by just some perseverance, or karate, or contacting the school admin, or bravely confronting the bullies... or some other bullshit. In this day and age of social media, a pack can quickly form and things can become out of control so fast. Schools are not adapting quickly enough to cope with the new realities.

I am heartsick over the latest group of suicides, or the kid who was expelled because he brought a stun gun to school to try to protect himself when the school wouldn't. Our culture is sick.

SoutherDem

(2,307 posts)
11. Stun gun at school
Fri May 11, 2012, 12:31 AM
May 2012

If I recall the young man who took the stun gun to school for protection, attempted going to the administration first. The principle said he was a flamboyant dresser and should have expected to be harassed.

That principle should be fired and feel lucky it was a stun gun instead of a real gun and that the young man only wanted to protect himself or there might be several deaths.

gkhouston

(21,642 posts)
10. It's the bullies, not the bullied, who need to develop some character.
Fri May 11, 2012, 12:24 AM
May 2012

Tolerating their bad behavior won't achieve that, if you want them to develop good character.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
12. It's not "some". I think most people think so under the right circumstances. Our entire culture
Fri May 11, 2012, 12:33 AM
May 2012

indoctrinates us into bullying, which is the use of power to humiliate the less powerful and make them toe the line.

And training kids not be bullies only goes so far when the culture tells them different.

 

guardian

(2,282 posts)
13. What makes you think this is an "American" problem???
Fri May 11, 2012, 12:36 AM
May 2012

Bullying occurs in all cultures around the globe. I've personally seen it in Europe, Africa, and Asia. There are assholes in every country and every culture.

SoutherDem

(2,307 posts)
14. I said America
Fri May 11, 2012, 12:45 AM
May 2012

because I was talking about an American movie, the caller was American, the subject of the day was about an American who what to be the American President.
Wasn't meaning to exclude the rest of the planet for such behavior.

 

provis99

(13,062 posts)
19. are you talking about yourself?
Fri May 11, 2012, 04:17 AM
May 2012

there's a little bit of projectionism going on with you, isn't there?

Response to provis99 (Reply #19)

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
38. sometimes it's much easier and less brain consuming to merely trivialize and minimize
Fri May 11, 2012, 03:40 PM
May 2012

"What a load of crap Get out of your mother's basement and see the world"



I imagine you often think that of those whose opinions are different than yours. Sometimes it's much easier and less brain consuming to merely trivialize and minimize the other person rather than addressing any points or issues they may have.




Insert Rationalism For Behavior Here...

ProfessionalLeftist

(4,982 posts)
15. Tom called the one who commit suicide as "weak" suggested "growing a backbone"
Fri May 11, 2012, 12:51 AM
May 2012

= "blame the victim"

We like to do that here, don't we? Victims of DV and rape and other violent crimes are often blamed for their abuse. And it is just as inappropriate as when Tom or anyone else blames victims of bullies.

Cafemommy

(2 posts)
16. Bullying is everywhere.
Fri May 11, 2012, 03:00 AM
May 2012

I started a profile here because I have been bullied by at least two members of this site. I am a Democrat and vote. But because of my family, members here stated that I should have been drowned at birth. No, those members did not even know me, never met me, do not even know my name. But because of my family member, they cheerfully bullied me online. I found the threads with the insults that reduced two of my innocent daughters to tears, after they told me about it, right here on this very forum.

I have reported it over and over to no avail. The members who decided I 'should have been drowned at birth' are popular ones, judging from the amount of posts they have and the friendliness of other members towards them. I don't care. I just want these hurtful personal attacks against me removed at once.

Raine

(30,540 posts)
21. I'm sorry to read this happened to you. I have found that some of the worst bullies are adults.
Fri May 11, 2012, 06:02 AM
May 2012

There is NO excuse for bullying here or anywhere else. I'm so sorry this happened to you.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
28. Your post is so cryptic, there is no way to know if your complaints are valid.
Fri May 11, 2012, 08:25 AM
May 2012

It would help if you could link the post or even say who your family member is.

DianaForRussFeingold

(2,552 posts)
18. Sad!
Fri May 11, 2012, 03:31 AM
May 2012
"As part of the It Gets Better Project, President Obama shares his message of hope and support for struggling with being bullied." President Obama:

"It Gets Better"

meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
20. My son was bullied...
Fri May 11, 2012, 04:49 AM
May 2012

by the same bunch of kids in elementary school. When I told the principal he said that he should make an appointment with the school psychologist so he can reconcile his feelings about it. He waited until he found one of the little gentlemen alone and beat the snot out of him. He came home with a few bruises and a fat lip, but his feelings were reconciled.

The bullies just went on to torment some other kid. My wife told him to never fight. Disagree if you please, but I told him that it's okay to defend himself. My job is to see to it that my son doesn't get bullied. The school's job is to see to it that NOBODY gets bullied.

BTW: He got called to the principal's office over the incident.

ProfessorGAC

(64,427 posts)
24. I Think It's Simpler Than That
Fri May 11, 2012, 06:25 AM
May 2012

I don't agree that everyone is a bully. Rather, i think most people were never bullied. I wasn't.

Until more recent years, i didn't realize what a social problem this was. Others who weren't bullied, but don't pay attention to social news as much as someone like me (not a self-congratulations) don't get the depth of the issue. So, they are unaware of how bad this problem is and the consequences. And, since it never happened to them, they are not attuned to it.

If i didn't spend time perusing the net and reading DU, i might not know as much as i should. So, in my case, even though i never was bullied, i get the problem.

I don't think people necessarily condone it. I think they simply don't get it.
GAC

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
23. Violence is fucking awesome, that's why!!
Fri May 11, 2012, 06:20 AM
May 2012
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/134

Until we stop thinking like the Toms of the world, the bullshit will continue.

Par Example: Just look at the thread this entry comes from. A Progressive site even contains victim-blaming "Toms". Of course, one of them got PPRoni'd for revealing himself to be anti-gay as well as a victim-blamer, but still they flourish.

Assault is a CRIME and should be treated as such. Something you would never put up with for a second as an adult should never be "a part of building character" for our children.

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
25. In a patriarchal society, it is seen as "weak" to let others push you around.
Fri May 11, 2012, 06:31 AM
May 2012

You are a "sissy". A loser, a limp noodle. The reality is that those that are bullied are the strongest people around to be able to put up with being bullied every day at school. Punching out the bully is not the answer. The fact that parents and teachers do nothing teaches the bully that they are right. It does not matter if the bullied kid stands up for him or herself now and then. It is not the children that have the issue, it is that people don't teach kids right from wrong and just let things happen.
I am subbing in schools right now and have seen the bullying up close. As a teacher, you have to step in quickly and defuse the situation. Bullying is NOT okay.
Also, we need to get away from the macho crap our country was built on.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
31. Our myth of rugged individualism plays a big part, imo
Fri May 11, 2012, 09:31 AM
May 2012

Just as it permeates our economics, the notion of the rugged individualist still deeply influences our social reality, too.

It's at the dark heart of Ayn Rand's babblings.

varelse

(4,062 posts)
33. A bully has a good deal of emotional investment
Fri May 11, 2012, 10:34 AM
May 2012

in thinking that his or her own behaviour is normal and acceptable.

Some Americans are bullies, or have been in the past. They would prefer to think the behaviour is justified than to recognize the harm and pain they have inflicted on their victims.

meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
35. I was at a friend's wake recently...
Fri May 11, 2012, 10:47 AM
May 2012

when this tall, pale, blubbery guy walks up and says "Hiya Joey" in the most friendly voice you can imagine. I recognized him right away as the young gentleman who tortured me for several years as a pre-teen and adolescent. He was two years older and eight inches taller and he gave me a beating at least once a week. When it was time for high school I decided on a school that was out of the neighborhood, so I rarely saw him again... until this night nearly fifty years later.

I heard a little voice inside my head saying: "Meet him outside. You can take him apart now."

The beating incidents didn't really "scar" me, but I do remember them.

BTW: He was two years older, but still in my grade.

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