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ICYMI - from Skinner (Original Post) cyberswede May 2015 OP
Good call! TY Skinner! Rex May 2015 #1
It's his right AuntPatsy May 2015 #2
Well, I hope that happens. MineralMan May 2015 #3
Well, one person's flamebait is another persons truthful fact snooper2 May 2015 #6
From whatever source, and directed at whatever, MineralMan May 2015 #7
Intentions are pretty easy to read if one opens one's eyes... LanternWaste May 2015 #14
All personal attacks against other DUers should be hidden. MannyGoldstein May 2015 #4
Good idea. It often seems that calling posters names is easier than responding to the content pampango May 2015 #13
That would probably be a very good start War Horse May 2015 #41
The problem is that is that justice is in the eye of the beholder. onehandle May 2015 #5
But if all divisive flamebait is alerted, some will get hidden... cyberswede May 2015 #8
put in... clinton is a war criminal and not a real democrat, and i doubt it would be hidden. seabeyond May 2015 #12
It's happened and it hasn't been hidden. onehandle May 2015 #15
ICYMI - from Skinner Capt. Obvious May 2015 #33
yep. MerryBlooms May 2015 #9
LOL at your graphic! cyberswede May 2015 #10
I snagged it either from here or FB, but yeah, it gives me a chuckle too. MerryBlooms May 2015 #11
Your post is divisive flamebaity crap. Gormy Cuss May 2015 #25
! MerryBlooms May 2015 #29
Awesome graphic! red dog 1 May 2015 #42
It's not gonna happen. Gormy Cuss May 2015 #16
I realize it's wishful thinking, but maybe some jury members will take it to heart. cyberswede May 2015 #18
truth PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #53
I totally agree. demmiblue May 2015 #17
I always do. greatauntoftriplets May 2015 #19
I've had a couple of those, as the lone hide vote. cyberswede May 2015 #20
I don't think so. greatauntoftriplets May 2015 #22
Well, I know MINE are always great. cyberswede May 2015 #23
Of course they are! greatauntoftriplets May 2015 #26
Flamebait can be civil. Renew Deal May 2015 #31
Yep, would be nice Spazito May 2015 #21
Good response. i hide personal attacks. hrmjustin May 2015 #24
I think that goes into dangerous territory. Renew Deal May 2015 #27
Which is why a jury would have to agree. cyberswede May 2015 #28
Agree!! SCantiGOP May 2015 #30
Go ahead. Make my day. Buzz Clik May 2015 #32
Would that include the cheerleading? zipplewrath May 2015 #34
+ a zillion. NRaleighLiberal May 2015 #35
I assume you only mean cheerleading for Clinton BainsBane May 2015 #38
Ha zipplewrath May 2015 #39
Can't disagree with you there. nt BainsBane May 2015 #40
How is cheerleading a hide worthy thing? hrmjustin May 2015 #46
If the intent/effect is to be flamebait zipplewrath May 2015 #48
Ok so the intent has to be interpreted. hrmjustin May 2015 #49
Sorta fundamental to the expression flamebait zipplewrath Jun 2015 #52
I think there's a good reason why Skinner doesn't post his commentary about juries as OPs in GD. aikoaiko May 2015 #36
I think that there's a better reason... countryjake May 2015 #50
Good advice, I agree, either don't go into flame bait threads and let them sink, or alert on them. sabrina 1 May 2015 #37
I agree with Skinner. red dog 1 May 2015 #43
I'm trashing the threads as fast as I can, but I'd prefer to have GD-P Warpy May 2015 #44
Hear hear. Nye Bevan May 2015 #45
Thanks for posting that here! The great Oz has spoken! countryjake May 2015 #47
Sounds good to me! nt MADem May 2015 #51

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
3. Well, I hope that happens.
Fri May 29, 2015, 10:52 AM
May 2015

Thanks for posting this in GD. Not everyone reads ATA. We'll see how it works out.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
7. From whatever source, and directed at whatever,
Fri May 29, 2015, 10:56 AM
May 2015

flamebait posts are pretty easy to spot. DUers aren't stupid.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
14. Intentions are pretty easy to read if one opens one's eyes...
Fri May 29, 2015, 11:01 AM
May 2015

Intentions are pretty easy to read if one opens one's eyes... it really doesn't take much to infer the obvious, regardless of how one may rationalize it otherwise to better hide behind implication.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
13. Good idea. It often seems that calling posters names is easier than responding to the content
Fri May 29, 2015, 11:01 AM
May 2015

of posts. Hiding personal attacks may be too much to hope for but I like the way you think.

War Horse

(931 posts)
41. That would probably be a very good start
Fri May 29, 2015, 01:45 PM
May 2015

Of course a lengthy "what constitutes a personal attack" debate would probably follow...

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
5. The problem is that is that justice is in the eye of the beholder.
Fri May 29, 2015, 10:53 AM
May 2015

If someone posts 'John Kerry is a War Criminal and Not A Real Democrat.'

Clearly that's decisive bullshit, but if you get a plurality on a jury that have an agenda, 'justice' flies out the window.

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
8. But if all divisive flamebait is alerted, some will get hidden...
Fri May 29, 2015, 10:56 AM
May 2015

and some posters might think twice about posting it, which might lead to a decrease.

Worth a shot, anyway.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
12. put in... clinton is a war criminal and not a real democrat, and i doubt it would be hidden.
Fri May 29, 2015, 11:00 AM
May 2015

this is an interesting thread though, thinking it thru and listening to others.

Capt. Obvious

(9,002 posts)
33. ICYMI - from Skinner
Fri May 29, 2015, 11:59 AM
May 2015
We have no evidence that any person or group of people is systematically abusing the jury system. Occasionally people get upset and try to send a bunch of bogus alerts, but jurors aren't fooled by that, and in every case the person quickly gets a 7-0 hide and gets blocked out of using the system. After that, they realize it's not a very good use of their time.

The admins still feel that the jury system has been a big success. We look at it pretty much the same way you do: "not everyone agrees with every decision but that is the nice part: Not everyone has to. The system stochastically averages over different viewpoints...." Exactly.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12597979

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
16. It's not gonna happen.
Fri May 29, 2015, 11:08 AM
May 2015

Based on jury results that I've seen there are far too many people here who view 'divisive flamebaity crap' as positive discussion --- and at time that includes some pretty right-wing views on issues.

The most insidious interpretation of community standards though is when jurors allow shitty comments to stand because the comments were directed at someone the juror doesn't respect or like.

While I agree with Skinner's opinion, he's just writing an opinion like any other DUer rather than addressing the deficiencies in the moderation-by-jury system.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
53. truth
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 08:12 PM
Jun 2015
The most insidious interpretation of community standards though is when jurors allow shitty comments to stand because the comments were directed at someone the juror doesn't respect or like.


example: A thread in which someone came after me. I finally alerted.

Not as much as
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6721217

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Power To The People is always disrespecting people from the anonymity of the internet. In real life if you talk that way to people you run the risk of getting punched in the face.

I scream "Leave It Alone" and proudly stand with Bobbie Jo and every poster who has been the victim of her verbal abuse.




Renew Deal

(81,801 posts)
31. Flamebait can be civil.
Fri May 29, 2015, 11:51 AM
May 2015

So I'm not sure how it should be judged. Also many people judge something to be flamebait on whether they agree with the topic or not.

SCantiGOP

(13,856 posts)
30. Agree!!
Fri May 29, 2015, 11:51 AM
May 2015

As one member who often takes a break from here for a few days because of all the posts that basically assert that the Clintons and Obama are almost in league with the Tea Party and Koch Brothers, I may be a more judgmental juror from now on.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
34. Would that include the cheerleading?
Fri May 29, 2015, 12:02 PM
May 2015

Cheerleading can be as much "flamebait" and divisive crap.

If I truly "cracked down" on disruptive posting, a lot of people wouldn't get to post at all. Without a healthy amount of original content, and some reasonable adherence to standards of logic, as well as a commitment to fact checking and sourcing, in the end a post becomes some variation of "flamebait".

At the core some people come here for the "safe haven" aspects. They want people to agree with them. Some people come here specifically to try to move peoples positions. And some people come here only for the tussle and bustle. They want people to disagree with them. The real problems start when the first group comes in contact with the third group.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
38. I assume you only mean cheerleading for Clinton
Fri May 29, 2015, 01:28 PM
May 2015

but would be angry if posts cheerleading for Sanders were hidden.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
39. Ha
Fri May 29, 2015, 01:33 PM
May 2015

No, actually, I've really got no dog in that fight. There's plenty of cheerleading around here on a variety of candidates, and issues to some extent. I find the vast majority of it to be an invitation to hostility.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
48. If the intent/effect is to be flamebait
Fri May 29, 2015, 03:52 PM
May 2015

Much cheerleading is intended to criticize the critic. It can be back handed or obtuse, but it is the intent anyway.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
52. Sorta fundamental to the expression flamebait
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 08:07 PM
Jun 2015

Judgement of intent is a fundamental aspect of deciding that something is flamebait.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
36. I think there's a good reason why Skinner doesn't post his commentary about juries as OPs in GD.
Fri May 29, 2015, 12:15 PM
May 2015

DISRUPTIVE META-DISCUSSION
Positive threads about Democratic Underground or its members are are permitted.

Threads complaining about Democratic Underground or its members; threads complaining about jury decisions, locked threads, suspensions, bannings, or the like; and threads intended to disrupt or negatively influence the normal workings of Democratic Underground and its community moderating system are not permitted.



countryjake

(8,554 posts)
50. I think that there's a better reason...
Fri May 29, 2015, 05:33 PM
May 2015
The best part of it for me personally is that I no longer have to be the referee. I am an opinionated person, I love politics because I have opinions, and I like sharing them. In hindsight, I feel like I wasted 10 years of my life doing something I didn't really enjoy doing (moderating people's posts) and getting constantly vilified for doing it, despite excruciating efforts to be fair. The jury system gave me back my freedom, my happiness, and my mental health.



From this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12597979


Kudos to our Administrators for inventing a self-moderating forum.

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
44. I'm trashing the threads as fast as I can, but I'd prefer to have GD-P
Fri May 29, 2015, 03:17 PM
May 2015

and simply be able to hide all the ugliness of personality cult politics right off the bat.

If so many of us are sick of the Hillary War II bullshit now, what's it going to be like next year?

No wonder Democrats have been staying home instead of voting.

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
47. Thanks for posting that here! The great Oz has spoken!
Fri May 29, 2015, 03:45 PM
May 2015

It's been getting harder and harder to make any honest decisions on alerted posts, especially if one isn't engaged in the current brouhaha over Clinton and Sanders. Reading some of those threads has reminded me of watching a slam-bang cage-fight.

"Get hard-assed." I like that!

to Skinner!

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