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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 09:58 AM Oct 2015

New evidence that US Army deliberately targeted hospital in Kunduz



Patient bed at Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) medical center, Kunduz, Afghanistan.

New evidence that US Army deliberately targeted hospital in Kunduz

By Joseph Kishore
wsws.org, 27 October 2015

It is now more than three weeks since the October 3 massacre by US military forces of medical personnel and patients at the Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) medical center in Kunduz, Afghanistan. Aided by the media, the US military and the Obama administration are continuing their efforts to cover up and whitewash a war crime.

On Monday, the Associated Press published a report providing further confirmation that the facility was targeted and bombed by US military personnel with full knowledge that it was a functioning hospital. The attack lasted for an hour, destroying the building and killing 30 people, including at least 13 MSF staff members and 10 patients.

SNIP...

A report from “a senior Green Beret officer from 3rd Special Forces Group” on October 2 stated, “MSF report that they have personnel in the trauma center,” according to the AP, citing two sources who have seen the report.

The AP states that it was the Green Berets, the Special Forces division of the US Army, that called in the attack.

SNIP...

[font color="red"]The report follows a previous article citing a former intelligence official who said special operations analysts had mapped the entire area and drawn a circle around the hospital.[/font color]

CONTINUED...

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/10/27/kund-o27.html



Monday's AP report, which I did not see mentioned online or in-print or hear mentioned on-air, at all:



Troops who sought strike thought Taliban had hospital

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Army Green Berets who requested the Oct. 3 airstrike on the Doctors without Borders trauma center in Afghanistan were aware it was a functioning hospital but believed it was under Taliban control, The Associated Press has learned.

The new information adds to a body of evidence that the internationally run medical facility site was familiar to the U.S. military, raising questions about whether the decision to attack it violated international law.

A day before an American AC-130 gunship attacked the hospital, a senior officer in the Green Beret unit wrote in a report that U.S. forces had discussed the hospital with the country director of the medical charity group, presumably in Kabul, according to two people who have seen the document.

SNIP...

Taken together, the revelations add to the growing possibility that U.S. forces destroyed what they knew was a functioning hospital, which would be a violation of the international rules of war. The Pentagon has said Americans would never have intentionally fired on a medical facility, and it's unclear why the Green Beret unit requested the strike — and how such an attack was approved by the chain of command — on coordinates widely known to have included a hospital.

CONTINUED...

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a39810b7161d42fcb0abe36576d26730/troops-who-sought-strike-thought-taliban-had-hospital



What the hospital was like before it was targeted for closure.



Welfare for Warlords and Warmongers, courtesy of the US taxpayer.

Almost forgot: Where are the video and audio recordings from the gunship?
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
New evidence that US Army deliberately targeted hospital in Kunduz (Original Post) Octafish Oct 2015 OP
On a Sunday News Show....Reporter Martha Radditz did a report on Afghanistan KoKo Oct 2015 #1
Funny how that works. Octafish Oct 2015 #4
Danger Zone Jobs In Afghanistan: 2015 - 2016--APPLY HERE: KoKo Oct 2015 #7
Cost Plus. Octafish Oct 2015 #19
the "war on terror" is pure insanity for our country, and needs to end Fast Walker 52 Oct 2015 #26
We have sunk this low? uawchild Oct 2015 #2
Rep. Keith Ellison Calls For Independent Investigation into Doctors Without Borders Hospital Bombing Octafish Oct 2015 #8
There is no doubt Jesus Malverde Oct 2015 #3
Better to be thought clueless than guilty of a war crime gratuitous Oct 2015 #5
And besides, Obama said no more combat operations. cwydro Oct 2015 #17
We would never have known about the Apache video, without Snowden and WikiLeaks. Octafish Oct 2015 #30
we must always look forward, not backward. That's what KingCharlemagne Oct 2015 #6
Cass Sunstein thought letting Bush and Cheney go was a good idea. Octafish Oct 2015 #9
Cass Sunstein and Government Nanny Censoring "Conspiracy Theories" KoKo Oct 2015 #34
Technically I think this is considered a Nobel Peace Hospital Bombing Fumesucker Oct 2015 #10
Fuji moved his finger. Octafish Oct 2015 #13
Sweeping this under the rug is almost as bad as the actual crime. JEB Oct 2015 #11
This guy laughs at our dead soldiers and it never gets mentioned on tee vee. Octafish Oct 2015 #14
Gawd, that is the vilest POS. Makes my gut churn. JEB Oct 2015 #23
It's easy to find people here who want a republican tried for war crimes but when it is a democrat Township75 Oct 2015 #12
Hypocrisy, once exposed, really stands out. Octafish Oct 2015 #33
Welp...I didn't like the rush to judgment that this was a war crime rather than a TwilightGardener Oct 2015 #15
There is no 'evidence' in the article, just supposition about chain-of-command. randome Oct 2015 #16
Seems pretty "deliberate" to me. They aimed at their target and they hit it. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2015 #18
Then why? What is gained by deliberately murdering patients and doctors in such a public manner? randome Oct 2015 #21
Intimidation; terrorism gratuitous Oct 2015 #24
Remember "Shock and Awe"? It wasn't the Iraqi army that we intended to shock. arcane1 Oct 2015 #29
A map with a circle marking the hospital's location is new 'evidence.' Octafish Oct 2015 #20
Sure, we know all that. Did someone look at the wrong map, perhaps? randome Oct 2015 #22
Dunno. Do know the gunship audio and video will be reveltory. Octafish Oct 2015 #25
I think it will need to be more complicated than that. Or more incompetent than that. randome Oct 2015 #27
What do you think about the Army changing its story four times? Octafish Oct 2015 #32
Because they believed that the Taliban was using it as a base rusty fender Oct 2015 #36
"it was a functioning hospital but believed it was under Taliban control" arcane1 Oct 2015 #28
AP says Army knew, but the boss who ordered attack may not have known. Octafish Oct 2015 #31
"Doctors Without Borders" Hospital Bombed Out in Yemen, Oct. 27th! KoKo Oct 2015 #35

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
1. On a Sunday News Show....Reporter Martha Radditz did a report on Afghanistan
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 10:20 AM
Oct 2015

where she was embedded to interview some of our military commanders there. She said in her report that the U.S. has 30,000 independent Military Contractors in Afghanistan.

30,000 Military Contractors! I don't recall hearing anything about that high number of contractors there...while the MIC/MS Media argue over whether Obama should have 5,000 or 10,000 U.S."Boots on the Ground" (meaning real U.S. Troops in uniform) we already have 30,000 people there doing who knows what!

How the hell do we know what the truth of anything is these days? Is it possible that Military Contractors are embedded with our troops in uniform and maybe they are in calling the shots as to who we target? Those Contractors are not responsible to any code of ethics our regular soldiers have to fight under. And, who knows whether they are doing rogue operations or not but given that high number of contractors one would think there could be some major mistakes being made. Is it possible that one of them called this operation on the hospital?

Don't we as citizens have the right to know who we are paying to fight our wars?



Octafish

(55,745 posts)
4. Funny how that works.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 10:27 AM
Oct 2015


KA-CHING: The Company Getting Rich Off the ISIS War

For the Middle East, the growth of the self-proclaimed Islamic State has been a catastrophe.
For one American firm, it’s been a gold mine.


by Kate Brannen
The Daily Beast, 08.02.15

The war against ISIS isn’t going so great, with the self-appointed terror group standing up to a year of U.S. airstrikes in Syria and Iraq.

But that hasn’t kept defense contractors from doing rather well amidst the fighting. Lockheed Martin has received orders for thousands of more Hellfire missiles. AM General is busy supplying Iraq with 160 American-built Humvee vehicles, while General Dynamics is selling the country millions of dollars worth of tank ammunition.

SOS International, a family-owned business whose corporate headquarters are in New York City, is one of the biggest players on the ground in Iraq, employing the most Americans in the country after the U.S. Embassy. On the company’s board of advisors: former Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz—considered to be one of the architects of the invasion of Iraq—and Paul Butler, a former special assistant to Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld.

The company, which goes by “SOSi,” says on its website that the contracts it’s been awarded for work in Iraq in 2015 have a total value of more than $400 million. They include a $40 million contract to provide everything from meals to perimeter security to emergency fire and medical services at Iraq’s Besmaya Compound, one of the sites where U.S. troops are training Iraqi soldiers. The Army awarded SOSi a separate $100 million contract in late June for similar services at Camp Taji. The Pentagon expects that contract to last through June 2018.

A year after U.S. airstrikes began targeting the so-called Islamic State in Iraq, there are 3,500 U.S. troops deployed there, training and advising Iraqi troops. But a number that is not discussed is the growing number of contractors required to support these operations. According to the U.S. military, there are 6,300 contractors working in Iraq today, supporting U.S. operations. Separately, the State Department is seeking janitorial services, drivers, linguists, and security contractors to work at its Iraqi facilities.

While these numbers pale in comparison to the more than 163,000 working in Iraq at the peak of the Iraq War, they are steadily growing. And with the fight against ISIS expected to take several years, it also represents a growing opportunity for defense, security, and logistics contractors, especially as work in Afghanistan begins to dry up.

“It allows us to maintain the façade of no boots on the ground while at the same time growing our footprint,” said Laura Dickinson, a law professor at George Washington University whose recent work has focused on regulating private military contractors.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/02/the-company-getting-rich-off-of-the-isis-war.html

The reason We the People don't know who is making money off all the wars without end is We the People don't have the proper security clearance. We may need International War Crime Lord-level authorization to know all we should to put a handle on these gangsters and their traitors.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
7. Danger Zone Jobs In Afghanistan: 2015 - 2016--APPLY HERE:
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 10:54 AM
Oct 2015

Danger Zone Jobs In Afghanistan: 2015 - 2016
by William Beaver, editor-in-chief

http://www.dangerzonejobs.com/jobs-in-afghanistan.html

Jobs in Afghanistan are still available in support of the US military through a number of government agencies and contracting companies. The number is decreasing but still in the tens of thousands.

The US Army awarded the $150b LOGCAP IV (Logistics Civil Augmentation Program) contract for food, housing and other services to the U.S. soldiers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait in 2007. Three companies were awarded the right to compete for task orders: Fluor, Dyncorp and KBR. Many companies provide subcontractor support to these three prime contractors.

Other major contracts which offer job possibilities in Afghanistan include the Air Force Contract Augmentation Program (AFCAP), the Navy Global Contingency Construction Contract (GCCC) and the Global Contingency Services Contract (GCSC).


DangerZoneJobs.com for example, tracks more than 300 of the larger companies offering jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Forecast

The White House announced a plan to leave at least 9,800 troops in Afghanistan beyond the December 2014 deadline for withdrawal.

As many analysts pointed out, the military numbers have typically been supported by even more private contractors.

As long as troops are on the ground in Afghanistan, civilian contractors will be there with them.

The question of course will be how many and what kind of jobs can you expect to find in Afghanistan in 2014 - 2015?


The two primary sources of jobs in Afghanistan are with private contractors supporting the military and companies who subcontract to various international relief and development efforts.

Current Situation

As of August 10, 2015, 70% of the companies followed by Danger Zone Jobs were still listing:

IT Jobs
Security jobs
Construction jobs
Mechanic jobs
Logistics jobs
Firefighting jobs
and many more different fields

The actual number of contractors working in Afghanistan jobs can be estimated by a quarterly report published by the U.S. Army, which gives the number of DoD contractor personnel deployed in Iraq (Operation New Dawn (OND)), Afghanistan (Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF)), and the U.S. Central Command (USCENTCOM) area of responsibility (AOR).

According to the latest report, in the 3rd quarter of FY 2015, USCENTCOM reported approximately 41,922 contractor personnel working for the DoD in the USCENTCOM AOR.

This total reflects a decrease of approximately 7,500 from the previous quarter.

A breakdown of DoD contractor personnel is provided below:

DoD Contractor Personnel in Afghanistan
Total Contractors U.S. Citizens Third Country Nationals Local & Host Country Nationals
Afghanistan Only 28,931 10,019 6,686 12,226


http://www.dangerzonejobs.com/jobs-in-afghanistan.html

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
19. Cost Plus.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:06 PM
Oct 2015


Ordered whitewashed the next day.

http://blog.theautry.org/2010/12/los-angeles-muralists-react-to-moca-controversy/

I know you remember Bunnatine Greenhouse, KoKo. America sure doesn't.



"Bunnatine "Bunny" Greenhouse, the former chief oversight official of contracts at the Army Corps of Engineers, has reached a $970,000 settlement six years after she was demoted for publicly criticizing a multi-billion-dollar, no-bid contract to Halliburton—the company formerly headed by then-Vice President Dick Cheney. Greenhouse had accused the Pentagon of unfairly awarding the contract to Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root. Testifying before Congress in June 2005, she called the contract the worst case of government abuse she had ever witnessed in her 20-year career. Just two months after that testimony, Greenhouse was demoted at the Pentagon, ostensibly for "poor performance." She had overseen government contracts for 20 years and had drawn high praise in her rise to become the senior civilian oversight official at the Army Corps of Engineers. With the help of the National Whistleblowers Center, Greenhouse filed a lawsuit challenging her demotion. In a Democracy Now! broadcast exclusive, Greenhouse announces that a settlement has been reached in what is seen as a major victory for government whistleblowers. We’re also joined by Greenhouse’s attorney, Michael Kohn, and by Stephen Kohn, executive director of the National Whistleblowers Center.

SOURCE: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/26/exclusive_fired_army_whistleblower_receives_970k



And that Treat was about that for whistleblowers. The rest got Tricks like John Kiriakou and Ted Westhusing.
 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
26. the "war on terror" is pure insanity for our country, and needs to end
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 02:25 PM
Oct 2015

fuck the people who are profiting off this endless death and destruction.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
8. Rep. Keith Ellison Calls For Independent Investigation into Doctors Without Borders Hospital Bombing
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 11:42 AM
Oct 2015

By OFFICE OF REP. KEITH ELLISON

WASHINGTON – Earlier today, Rep. Keith Ellison, joined by Rep. Jim McGovern (D-MA), Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA), Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-AZ), and 14 additional House colleagues, sent a letter to President Obama requesting a full and independent investigation into the bombing of a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan that killed 12 humanitarian workers and 10 patients.

The letter states: “We are deeply disturbed by the news that U.S. airstrikes in Afghanistan destroyed the MSF trauma hospital in Kunduz...Under international law, hospitals in conflict zones are protected spaces. An independent investigation will help ensure future military engagements keep humanitarian heroes, like the MSF staff, safe.”

“Cooperating with a thorough investigation conducted by the United Nations or other independent body would send an important message to the world that the United States is unequivocally committed to the transparency and accountability required to ensure such a catastrophic event does not happen again.”

Additional signers of the letter include: Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA), Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), Rep. John Garamendi (D-CA), Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI), Rep. Yvette Clarke (D-NY), Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman (D-NJ), Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-OR), Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR), Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-DC), Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-TX), Rep. Betty McCollum (D-MN), Rep. Judy Chu (D-CA), Rep. Alan Lowenthal (D-CA), and Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA).

October 26, 2015

President Barack Obama

1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW

Washington, DC 20500

Dear President Obama,

We write to request a full and independent investigation to determine what led to the bombing of a Doctors Without Borders (MSF) hospital in Afghanistan. We appreciate your willingness to reach out directly to MSF to apologize and your call for a Pentagon investigation. We believe a civilian-led independent investigation is also necessary to ensure an impartial assessment and confidence in the findings of the investigation.

We are deeply disturbed by the news that U.S. airstrikes in Afghanistan destroyed the MSF trauma hospital in Kunduz, killing 12 humanitarian aid workers and 10 of their patients lying in their beds, including three children. The repeated airstrikes on the hospital also injured 37 civilians, including 19 MSF staff members.

Cooperating with a thorough investigation conducted by the United Nations or other independent body would send an important message to the world that the United States is unequivocally committed to the transparency and accountability required to ensure such a catastrophic event does not happen again.

Under international law, hospitals in conflict zones are protected spaces. An independent investigation will help ensure future military engagements keep humanitarian heroes, like the MSF staff, safe.

Your leadership and statements by our top military officials communicates the sentiment of many who are saddened by this tragedy: deep regret and a desire to ensure it never happens again. We look forward to working with you to ensure that the United States prioritizes protection of civilians in its conduct of military operations around the world.


SOURCE: http://krwg.org/post/rep-keith-ellison-calls-independent-investigation-doctors-without-borders-hospital-bombing

Pogo was right -- about some of us. Thank Goodness some can still think and realize what our "Democracy" is doing.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
3. There is no doubt
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 10:25 AM
Oct 2015

That thing was blasted at close range by a AC 130 gunship. Release the audio and gun cam video, we'll know what happened. You know the manning video from the Apache, the same exists from this attack, but low and behold we pretend to be clueless.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
5. Better to be thought clueless than guilty of a war crime
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 10:28 AM
Oct 2015

As long as there's no evidence, the military and its supporters know they're in the clear. Withhold, obfuscate, say incredibly stupid things, and pretend otherwise, and the American people will support the military rather than suspect our star-spangled fightin' men and women are committing crimes against humanity.

We're the good guys, after all. The commercials all say so.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
17. And besides, Obama said no more combat operations.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:02 PM
Oct 2015

So this must all be a lie.

Still can't believe he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
30. We would never have known about the Apache video, without Snowden and WikiLeaks.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 04:03 PM
Oct 2015

Thanks to Allen Dulles and Operation MOCKINGBIRD and the rest of the secret government perfidy, the nation's news media won't do their Constitutionally mandated jobs. I wonder what other war crimes we don't know about, unknown by the US citizens and taxpayers because no one has been brave enough to step forward to report them or there were no surviving victims to file a complaint.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
6. we must always look forward, not backward. That's what
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 10:36 AM
Oct 2015

The CiC said about a couple other war criminals. Precedent has thus been firmly established.

USA! USA! USA!

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
9. Cass Sunstein thought letting Bush and Cheney go was a good idea.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:30 PM
Oct 2015
Government Nanny Censoring "Conspiracy Theories" Is Also Responsible for Letting Bush Era Torture and Spying Conspiracies Go Unpunished

Washingtons Blog, Oct. 7, 2010

EXCERPT...

Prosecuting government officials risks a “cycle” of criminalizing public service, (Sunstein) argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton — or even the “slight appearance” of it.

SOURCE w links n details: http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/10/main-obama-adviser-blocking-prosecution.html?m=1

Paybacks must be for losers. ETA: I mean, "conspiracy theorists."

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
34. Cass Sunstein and Government Nanny Censoring "Conspiracy Theories"
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 07:11 PM
Oct 2015
Government Nanny Censoring "Conspiracy Theories" is Also Responsible for Letting Bush Era Torture and Spying Conspiracies Go Unpunished
Thursday, October 7, 2010

Cass Sunstein was the main adviser to the Obama White House advocating against prosecuting Bush administration officials for torture, illegal spying, and other crimes.

As constitutional expert professor Jonathan Turley wrote in 2008:

Close Obama adviser (and University of Chicago Law Professor) Cass Sunstein recently rejected the notion of prosecuting Bush officials for crimes such as torture and unlawful surveillance.

***

The exchange with Sunstein was detailed by The Nation’s Ari Melber. Melber wrote that Sunstein rejected any such prosecution:

Prosecuting government officials risks a “cycle” of criminalizing public service, [Sunstein] argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton — or even the “slight appearance” of it.

Sunstein did add that “egregious crimes should not be ignored,” according to one site, click here. It is entirely unclear what that means since some of us take the views that any crimes committed by the government are egregious. Those non-egregious crimes are precisely what worries many lawyers who were looking for a simple commitment to prosecute crimes committed by the government.
***

The main concern with Sunstein’s reported comment is how well they fit within the obvious strategy of the Democratic party leaders: to block any prosecution of either President Bush or his aides for crimes while running on those crimes to maintain and expand their power in Washington. The missing component in this political calculus is, of course, a modicum of principle.

***

Here’s the problem about “avoiding appearances.” There seems ample evidence of crimes committed by this Administration, in my view. To avoid appearances would require avoiding acknowledgment of those alleged crimes: precisely what Attorney General Mukasey has been doing by refusing to answer simple legal questions about waterboarding.

How about this for an alternative? We will prosecute any criminal conduct that we find in any administration, including our own. Now, that doesn’t seem so hard. There is no sophistication or finesse needed. One need only to commit to carry out the rule of law.

The combination of Obama’s vote to retroactively grant immunity for the telecoms and Sunstein’s comments are an obvious cause for alarm. We have had almost eight years of legal relativism by both parties. For a prior column on the danger of relativism in presidents, click here A little moral clarity would be a welcomed change.

For further discussion of the Sunstein statements, click here and here.

See also this interview with Keith Olbermann:
Former constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald points out:

The aforementioned Obama friend, Cass Sunstein [is also the] protector of Bush lawbreakers, advocate of illegal Bush spying and radical presidential powers, and fierce critic of blogs as "anti-democratic".

Sunstein is also the guy who proposed that the government use its power to suppress "conspiracy theories".

As Greenwald wrote in January:

Cass Sunstein has long been one of Barack Obama's closest confidants. Often mentioned as a likely Obama nominee to the Supreme Court, Sunstein is currently Obama's head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs where, among other things, he is responsible for "overseeing policies relating to privacy, information quality, and statistical programs." In 2008, while at Harvard Law School, Sunstein co-wrote a truly pernicious paper proposing that the U.S. Government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-"independent" advocates to "cognitively infiltrate" online groups and websites -- as well as other activist groups -- which advocate views that Sunstein deems "false conspiracy theories" about the Government. This would be designed to increase citizens' faith in government officials and undermine the credibility of conspiracists. The paper's abstract can be read, and the full paper downloaded, here.

Sunstein advocates that the Government's stealth infiltration should be accomplished by sending covert agents into "chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups." He also proposes that the Government make secret payments to so-called "independent" credible voices to bolster the Government's messaging (on the ground that those who don't believe government sources will be more inclined to listen to those who appear independent while secretly acting on behalf of the Government). This program would target those advocating false "conspiracy theories," which they define to mean: "an attempt to explain an event or practice by reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have also managed to conceal their role."

As I've previously noted, conspiracies are a well-accepted legal principal, and it is commonly accepted that conspiracies occur every day, and only those conspiracies which involve powerful people are ridiculed as being nutty or dangerous.

So Sunstein is really saying the government should use its power to protect powerful people.


Greenwald continues:

Sunstein's closeness to the President, as well as the highly influential position he occupies, merits an examination of the mentality behind what he wrote. This isn't an instance where some government official wrote a bizarre paper in college 30 years ago about matters unrelated to his official powers; this was written 18 months ago, at a time when the ascendancy of Sunstein's close friend to the Presidency looked likely, in exactly the area he now oversees. Additionally, the government-controlled messaging that Sunstein desires has been a prominent feature of U.S. Government actions over the last decade, including in some recently revealed practices of the current administration, and the mindset in which it is grounded explains a great deal about our political class. All of that makes Sunstein's paper worth examining in greater detail.

* * * * *

Initially, note how similar Sunstein's proposal is to multiple, controversial stealth efforts by the Bush administration to secretly influence and shape our political debates. The Bush Pentagon employed teams of former Generals to pose as "independent analysts" in the media while secretly coordinating their talking points and messaging about wars and detention policies with the Pentagon. Bush officials secretly paid supposedly "independent" voices, such as Armstrong Williams and Maggie Gallagher, to advocate pro-Bush policies while failing to disclose their contracts. In Iraq, the Bush Pentagon hired a company, Lincoln Park, which paid newspapers to plant pro-U.S. articles while pretending it came from Iraqi citizens. In response to all of this, Democrats typically accused the Bush administration of engaging in government-sponsored propaganda -- and when it was done domestically, suggested this was illegal propaganda.

For background on current government propaganda efforts, see this.

MORE AT:

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/10/main-obama-adviser-blocking-prosecution.html?m=1

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
13. Fuji moved his finger.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:54 PM
Oct 2015

A monk asked the master Joshu: "Does a dog too possess a Buddha nature, or does he not?"

Joshu answered: "Un-thing!"

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
11. Sweeping this under the rug is almost as bad as the actual crime.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:42 PM
Oct 2015

Thank you Octafish for trying to prod our collective conscience awake.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
14. This guy laughs at our dead soldiers and it never gets mentioned on tee vee.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:57 PM
Oct 2015


Thank you for standing up to these warmongers and traitors, JEB. When they can take our names down and file 'em away in some NSA database, that is exactly what we are doing.

Township75

(3,535 posts)
12. It's easy to find people here who want a republican tried for war crimes but when it is a democrat
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:49 PM
Oct 2015

Suddenly tinge get quit.

Carry on with the war crimes. We got your back on this.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
33. Hypocrisy, once exposed, really stands out.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 06:24 PM
Oct 2015
Cindy Sheehan: Money Trumps Peace...Sometimes

EXCERPT...

"Money trumps peace" should be the rallying call of all the Democrats and Republicans who are exploiting our tired and wounded soldiers in the field to justify handing BushCo more money to complete his mission of totally decimating the Middle East for the oil companies, construction contractors, and defense industries. How many times have we heard: "We have to vote for the emergency funding for the troops." That money is not for the troops, never has been for the troops, and the troops in the field wouldn't need any support if they used the money that was already in the pipeline to bring our soldiers and Marines home from the killing deserts. I talked to a young lady at a university in Minnesota whose good friend was a Marine in Iraq who just got home and one of the only things that he shared with her was that he had to eat ants. If you don't believe me, just ask Mr. "You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want." Our troops have never been supported in this monstrous mistake of a war and they have never received the tools they need to survive, let alone be successful in their so-called mission. The money goes to one thousand dollar a day mercenaries -- not our two thousand dollar a month grunts.

"Money trumps peace" when while asking for tens of billions of more dollars for war, George is balancing the budget off of the backs of vets who have served this country honorably by cutting back on VA benefits. Many times I am asked: "What would you say to Bush if you were to meet with him now?" I think my first question would be: "How the hell do you look at yourself in the mirror?" How dare he?

"Money trumps peace" is one of the reasons why true peace won't be possible when our country is misgoverned by people who are beholden to and entrenched in the military industrial complex. K-Street palm greasers have an easier passage in the Halls of Congress than do activists with petitions, or a Gold Star Mother wearing a "protest shirt" do.

"Money trumps peace" is the problem when some leaders of Congress, who should be working day and night to bring our troops home to save Iraq and the lives and souls of our brave soldiers and Marines, are out raising money for presidential campaigns that are still a year away. Sometime between now and the first primaries in 2008, we will be holding vigils for the 4,000th troop killed in Iraq and thousands of Iraqi families will be overcome with grief and pain while the talking head shows are already consumed by election fever.

"Money will always trump peace" unless BushCo are impeached, removed from office, and imprisoned for leading our military like lambs to the slaughter to die for Raytheon, Halliburton, and Blackwater Security.

"Money will always trump peace" until we the people demand that our tax dollars remain in our communities, schools, and families and not directly funneled from the Treasury Department to the Pentagon, so that our children do not have to offer themselves up as these human sacrificial lambs.

CONTINUED...

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/cindy-sheehan-money-trumps-peacesometimes/1594-cindy-sheehan-money-trumps-peacesometimes

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
15. Welp...I didn't like the rush to judgment that this was a war crime rather than a
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:58 PM
Oct 2015

tragic mistake. But even if there was suspicion that there were Taliban in a hospital, IT WAS STILL A HOSPITAL, with actual patients and doctors. I wonder who green-lighted this?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
16. There is no 'evidence' in the article, just supposition about chain-of-command.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:00 PM
Oct 2015

An independent investigation would be welcome but one of the many questions we should ask ourselves is why would the U.S. deliberately target a hospital? What is the motive for creating an international uproar?

Most likely this was a failure of the chain of command. But saying it was deliberate seems to be an imaginary stretch to me.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
18. Seems pretty "deliberate" to me. They aimed at their target and they hit it.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:05 PM
Oct 2015

And they knew what it was when they did it.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
21. Then why? What is gained by deliberately murdering patients and doctors in such a public manner?
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:19 PM
Oct 2015

Seems more likely that a fuck-up of some sort led them to believe the hospital no longer contained patients and doctors. For all I know, that is still a war crime. But I doubt it was deliberate murder.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
24. Intimidation; terrorism
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 02:13 PM
Oct 2015

You know, the same motives we're so free about ascribing to our enemies. We just have more sophisticated means at our disposal, so we don't need to put a captured pilot in a cage and burn him alive. But the next allied or American pilot who is captured can look forward to the same treatment. We'll all be properly horrified by and angry about the barbarity, I'm sure.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
29. Remember "Shock and Awe"? It wasn't the Iraqi army that we intended to shock.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 02:46 PM
Oct 2015

It was the Iraqi people.

Same shit, different president.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
20. A map with a circle marking the hospital's location is new 'evidence.'
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:10 PM
Oct 2015
The special operations analysts had assembled a dossier that included maps with the hospital circled, along with indications that intelligence agencies were tracking the location of the Pakistani operative and activity reports based on overhead surveillance, according to a former intelligence official who is familiar with some of the documents describing the site. The intelligence suggested the hospital was being used as a Taliban command and control center and may have housed heavy weapons.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5e20fcd92aee49e699149aef93595e49/apnewsbreak-us-spec-ops-knew-afghan-site-was-hospital


Evidence being a "loaded term."
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
22. Sure, we know all that. Did someone look at the wrong map, perhaps?
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 01:21 PM
Oct 2015

Did the information on that map not get communicated to the gun crew? Again, why deliberately murder patients and doctors in such a public manner?

Sounds more like a horrible fuck-up than deliberate murder that sets the military effort back and makes us look incompetent.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
25. Dunno. Do know the gunship audio and video will be reveltory.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 02:18 PM
Oct 2015

The C-130 orbited the hospital for an hour, unloading all manner of machine gun and cannon fire. It seems the idea was to kill everybody down there, hospital or no.

The target must have been a very important bad guy to spend all that ammo and fuel. I imagine that someone, somewhere in authority will say they mistook him for someone they saw run into a hospital building.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
27. I think it will need to be more complicated than that. Or more incompetent than that.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 02:29 PM
Oct 2015

Basically destroying a hospital to get some "bad guy" is probably a war crime, too. Hopefully we'll have some confidence in what the investigation shows but who can say?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
32. What do you think about the Army changing its story four times?
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 04:18 PM
Oct 2015


Doctors Without Borders airstrike: US alters story for fourth time in four days

Commander of war in Afghanistan tells Senate panel that US forces had called in airstrike at Afghan request – ‘an admission of a war crime’ says MSF chief


Spencer Ackerman in New York
The Guardian, 6 Oct. 2015

EXCERPT...

The US account has now shifted four times in four days. On Saturday, the US military said it did not know for certain that it had struck the hospital but that US forces were taking fire in Kunduz.

On Sunday, it said that the strike took place in the “vicinity” of the hospital and suggested it had been accidentally struck. On Monday, Campbell said that the Afghans requested the strike and said US forces in the area were not “threatened”.

On Tuesday, he clarified that US forces called in the airstrike themselves at Afghan request.

SNIP...

On Thursday, the US defense secretary said Russia was pouring “gasoline on the fire” of the Syrian civil war after it launched a campaign of airstrikes against opponents of Moscow’s ally Bashar al-Assad.

A day later, the National Security Council spokesman, Ned Price, said the White House was “deeply concerned” that its Saudi ally in the Yemen conflict had bombed a wedding party, something the US itself did in Yemen in 2013.

SNIP...

He argued for “strategic patience” in the longest war in US history, which has now stretched five years longer than the failed Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

SOURCE: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/06/doctors-without-borders-airstrike-afghanistan-us-account-changes-again



Or is it five times?
 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
36. Because they believed that the Taliban was using it as a base
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 08:01 PM
Oct 2015

of operations. Obviously their intelligence was wrong, but they've already owned up to it.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
28. "it was a functioning hospital but believed it was under Taliban control"
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 02:33 PM
Oct 2015

Apparently, patients in a hospital deserve to die if we don't like who we think "controls" it.

Shameful.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
31. AP says Army knew, but the boss who ordered attack may not have known.
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 04:12 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2015/10/15/74009680/

Like a Catch-22, it's the best catch there is.



US tank enters ruined Afghan hospital putting 'war crime' evidence at risk

MSF says ‘forced entry’ by military vehicle – later said to be carrying investigators into the US airstrike that killed 22 patients and staff – caused stress and fear


Tom McCarthy in New York
The Guardian, 15 Oct 2015

A US tank has forced its way into the shell of the Afghanistan hospital destroyed in an airstrike 11 days ago, prompting warnings that the US military may have destroyed evidence in a potential war crimes investigation.

The 3 October attack on the Médécins sans Frontières (MSF) hospital in Kunduz killed 10 patients and 12 staff members of the group.

In a statement on Thursday, the medical charity, also known as Doctors Without Borders, said they were informed after Thursday’s “intrusion” that the tank was carrying investigators from a US-Nato-Afghan team which is investigating the attack.

“Their unannounced and forced entry damaged property, destroyed potential evidence and caused stress and fear,” MSF said.

The Pentagon did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the reported intrusion, which came as new evidence emerged that US forces operating in the area at the time of the attack knew that the facility was a hospital.

CONTINUED...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/15/us-tank-enters-ruined-afghan-hospital-putting-war-evidence-at-risk



Disgusted to know that some believe collateral damage is a small price to pay when it comes to protecting the profits er nation.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
35. "Doctors Without Borders" Hospital Bombed Out in Yemen, Oct. 27th!
Tue Oct 27, 2015, 07:15 PM
Oct 2015
Doctors Without Borders Says Yemen Hospital Is Destroyed

By KAREEM FAHIMOCT. 27, 2015

BEIRUT, Lebanon — A health center in northern Yemen run by Doctors Without Borders was obliterated overnight in multiple bombings by warplanes belonging to the military coalition led by Saudi Arabia, forcing the evacuation of staff members and patients, the group said on Tuesday.

“With the hospital destroyed, at least 200,000 people now have no access to lifesaving medical care,” Doctors Without Borders said in a statement.
Hassan Boucenine, the group’s head of mission in Yemen, said in the statement that the attack was “another illustration of a complete disregard for civilians in Yemen, where bombings have become a daily routine.”

The Saudi-led coalition, which is fighting Houthi rebels, has bombed several health facilities during the seven-month war, but the airstrikes appeared to be the first time coalition warplanes had directly struck a clinic run by Doctors Without Borders.

About 12 patients and staff members were in the center at the time, and they were able to evacuate in the lull between the two airstrikes. One patient received burns and scratches, and another was in critical condition because of the hurried evacuation, Mr. Boucenine said. One staff member was slightly injured.

Doctors Without Borders had supplied the health center’s coordinates to the coalition about six months ago and reconfirmed them every month, Mr. Boucenine said.

The health center, in the Haydan district along the border with Saudi Arabia, was one of the few medical facilities still operating in the northern province of Saada, a Houthi stronghold that has been heavily bombed by the coalition.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/28/world/middleeast/doctors-without-borders-yemen-airstrikes.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-0&action=click&contentCollection=Middle%20East®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article
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