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maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
Thu May 31, 2012, 11:44 AM May 2012

The job I did in '79 has increased in salary by 80 cents in the past 33 years! Yeah Trickle Down!

In 1976, I started working for a large grocery store chain in Ohio. We were non-union, but had the exact same benefits, pay, rights, etc., of our unionized main competitor.

My company didn’t give us the same pay and benefits of the union members out of the good of their heart…they did it because they knew if they didn’t, we too would organize and join the Retail Employees Union. This was common knowledge among my co-workers.

Now, in 1979, I was promoted to Head Stock Clerk. My pay was $11.60 per hour, time-and-a-half for overtime, double-time on Sundays and Holidays. You even got 2 weeks of paid vacation, which could go to a max of 5 weeks depending on the years you had in at the company. In addition, we had a fairly decent Health and Dental plan, and a matching contribution pension plan. This was a good job, and one where you could actually support yourself and a family. It was Middle Class, with an opportunity to reach “Upper” Middle Class. Bottom line is, it was a job that enabled you to have a great and fairly secure Quality of Life.

I left that job in 1984.

I was home recently and spoke to one of the full-time Stock Clerks at another grocery chain who is currently doing the same job I was doing in 1979-1984. He is being paid $12.40 per hour.

In 33 years…the salary for that job has increased a total of $0.80!

The store I worked with has since gone out of business. Penn Traffic Co. bought the stores, and through mismanagement, ran them into the ground. The executives made out quite well, while the employees got screwed.

Thanks to the Pension Guarantee Corporation, a handful of former employees may be lucky enough to get half of their promised pensions.

http://www.plansponsor.com/PBGC_Takes_on_Supermarket_Chain%e2%80%99s_Pension_Plans.aspx

This is what devaluing of labor, and obscene Executive pay looks like in real life.

I guarantee you that the compensation for CEOs of major grocery chains has increased a hell of a lot more than 80 cents in the past 33 years

This is what "Reganomics" has done to this country. It's as clear as the pimple on Rush' ass!

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The job I did in '79 has increased in salary by 80 cents in the past 33 years! Yeah Trickle Down! (Original Post) maxrandb May 2012 OP
The spiral to the bottom, courtesy of Sherman A1 May 2012 #1
Since they've bestowed sainthood on the bastard maxrandb May 2012 #27
And they get 2 for 1, the labor of the second in the household is essentially free newthinking May 2012 #54
I loved Big Bear when I lived in Columbus (1967-1977). sinkingfeeling May 2012 #2
Yep maxrandb May 2012 #29
I checked the inflation calculator..$11.60 would be over $34 in today's dollars.... rfranklin May 2012 #3
If the story is true, that is a ridiculous amount of money for a stock clerk, thanks for checking snooper2 May 2012 #4
Inflation adjusted income for men has basically been flat since the early 70's.. Fumesucker May 2012 #17
I must disagree Sherman A1 May 2012 #30
please explain what would justify over $70,000 a year. joeglow3 May 2012 #33
Do people really have to spell this out to you? laundry_queen May 2012 #42
If a stocker with no need for a high school diploma makes 70k+, i hope a teacher/nurse makes 250k. joeglow3 May 2012 #56
Again, that's the point laundry_queen Jun 2012 #58
Precisely Sherman A1 Jun 2012 #61
You are partially correct joeglow3 Jun 2012 #62
I think global wages will stabilize before the planet goes out laundry_queen Jun 2012 #65
Define "living wage" joeglow3 Jun 2012 #66
I agree. laundry_queen Jun 2012 #70
see my post a few down and rethink. You are buying into a myth newthinking May 2012 #53
Okay, go into detail.. please snooper2 May 2012 #34
Simple Sherman A1 Jun 2012 #60
You have bought the lies friend newthinking May 2012 #52
This is the problem of a global economy joeglow3 May 2012 #57
The guy I spoke with worked at Giant Eagle maxrandb May 2012 #7
In 1975, as a HS senior, I made 9 dollars an hour washing dishes at a New Jersey hospital. Safetykitten May 2012 #5
My daughter just started a full-time job maxrandb May 2012 #6
I work full time now. For 10.25 an hour. Safetykitten May 2012 #11
I was making a little more than that in 79 zeemike May 2012 #21
Around the same time, as a high school student, Art_from_Ark May 2012 #45
It'll work! You just have to give it some time. kenny blankenship May 2012 #8
Reagonomics: The rich get richer and we get fucked. Initech May 2012 #9
You can't buy the political system toddwv May 2012 #10
Grocery store employees here lost their unions and good wages back in the 90s proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #12
But apparently maxrandb May 2012 #13
And I'd be willing to bet maxrandb May 2012 #14
One by one, they picked off the unionized workers. Grocery employees, meatpackers, bus drivers, HiPointDem May 2012 #47
I don't believe we are stupid as much as not expecting the evil that drives the 1% proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #49
I think the average person is kind of naive. My gripe is that after 40 years of this bs, they still HiPointDem May 2012 #51
Astute observation that is chillingly spot-on Populist_Prole Jun 2012 #59
I think another major point is that people just don't know maxrandb Jun 2012 #69
And what action should they take? They_Live Jun 2012 #71
I'm not sure. But what I am sure of is that once there's some kind of critical mass willing to face HiPointDem Jun 2012 #73
Because there are enough ignorant asshats maxrandb Jun 2012 #67
I don't understand how or why companies are allowed to abelenkpe May 2012 #15
This is all true Harmony Blue May 2012 #16
Same story here. I was making $8-$10 an hour in 1979. hunter May 2012 #18
Incredible PatSeg May 2012 #19
Today maxrandb May 2012 #28
Same here PatSeg May 2012 #32
Load 16 tons, and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. malthaussen May 2012 #35
Yes, yes, yes! PatSeg May 2012 #36
More like' pissed on' rather than 'trickle down'- doncha ya think??? lunasun May 2012 #20
I'm a substitute teacher. I have been making the same LibDemAlways May 2012 #22
The new hires top pay now is about half of what I was making before I retired ten years ago NNN0LHI May 2012 #23
I earned 9.50 at my first job in 1983 as a service shop technician... OVERPAID01 May 2012 #24
The job I first did at Bridgestone/Firestone 20 years ago pays 14% less. Cronkite May 2012 #25
yep. nt StarryNight May 2012 #48
Finish carpenter in Denver, CO, 1984 $24 p/hr + benefits. Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #26
Hard to afford a Nissan truck on that salary! nt Romulox May 2012 #31
For trucks, I like Fords. n/t Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #39
I started at a grocery story in 1977 in NW Ohio and was paid minimum wage. I worked there madinmaryland May 2012 #37
I started at UPS xloadiex May 2012 #38
1983 UPS temp Xmas help: $8.00/hr. 2012 UPS package handler: $8.50/hr. i ask you, StarryNight May 2012 #50
i Make $3000 more a year now DonRedwood May 2012 #40
I'm stickin' to the union JDPriestly May 2012 #41
That's a depressing thought TNLib May 2012 #43
Where is that graph Ed uses? Omaha Steve May 2012 #44
I made more as a entry clerk-typist in a big corporation in the 70s than i did at my last HiPointDem May 2012 #46
I worked a grocery store union job in the early 90's for almost $20/hr EvolveOrConvolve May 2012 #55
Using data about obviously lazy CEOs is no way to BootinUp Jun 2012 #63
My uncle was the union rep. Lucky's used his kid to rubberstamp wage theft. He, being shop steward. WingDinger Jun 2012 #64
I now drive a semi for a company B Calm Jun 2012 #68
$12.40 an hour does not seem like the worst wage to me hfojvt Jun 2012 #72
Direct wages for a job with benefits are about 50% of the cost to the employer. Kaleva Jun 2012 #74
it's darn good money if you don't want to ever have a child, a home, or a retirement pitohui Jun 2012 #75
I said $25.69 an hour is darn good money hfojvt Jun 2012 #76

maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
27. Since they've bestowed sainthood on the bastard
Thu May 31, 2012, 04:58 PM
May 2012

it's going to be hard to get folks to admit he was a doddering old fool who simply signed what his corporate masters put in front of him, and wrecked the greatest country in the world.

When that ass-pickle Norquist says; "all we need is someone who can hold a pen", I say; "we already had one of those and he fucked this country good".

Everything from the evisceration of the Middle Class to the current ass-hatted political discourse in this country, to the "effing" wars, to the God Damned 9/11 attacks can be laid at the feet of that Rat Bastard!

"Reagan created Bin Laden! - President Obama Killed Him!"

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
54. And they get 2 for 1, the labor of the second in the household is essentially free
Thu May 31, 2012, 10:22 PM
May 2012

A lot of that productivity came from gaining a second wage earner in the households as well. So sure it looks to some like folks should not get the increase brought on by productivity gains and inflation. But the reality is we lost much more than just the increased wages. Now it takes two earners and even then many are not able to rise above poverty. We have been living a sham economy.

maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
29. Yep
Thu May 31, 2012, 05:07 PM
May 2012

was a great locally owned store that provided great service, innovative marketing, and took care of their employees.

Hell, if you worked there, and were lucky enough to fall in love and marry a fellow employee..you could move to the suburbs.

There were so mis-managed in the end by a vulture capital company. Amazingly, Reagans "great" tax-cut program enabled bigger companies to come in, get tax breaks, hire cheap labor, sell products cheaper, and run great companies like Big Bear out of business...

As usual, the wealthy walked away with millions, while the emplyees were told; "go get a fucking minimum wage job at Walmart"

 

rfranklin

(13,200 posts)
3. I checked the inflation calculator..$11.60 would be over $34 in today's dollars....
Thu May 31, 2012, 12:04 PM
May 2012

so the pay has actually been cut by 60%! That tells the story of the past 30 years in a nutshell.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
4. If the story is true, that is a ridiculous amount of money for a stock clerk, thanks for checking
Thu May 31, 2012, 12:10 PM
May 2012

Keep in mind we are talking 70K a year in today's dollars...

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
30. I must disagree
Thu May 31, 2012, 05:26 PM
May 2012

There is much more to the job than meets the eye. I assure you that it's more than just being a "can jockey".

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
33. please explain what would justify over $70,000 a year.
Thu May 31, 2012, 06:08 PM
May 2012

I too struggle to see what they are doing to make more than nurses, teachers, etc.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
42. Do people really have to spell this out to you?
Thu May 31, 2012, 08:10 PM
May 2012

Fine, I will. Nurses and teachers should be making MUCH more than they are. And so should people who work in grocery stores. The end.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
56. If a stocker with no need for a high school diploma makes 70k+, i hope a teacher/nurse makes 250k.
Thu May 31, 2012, 11:48 PM
May 2012

Of course, expect inflation to be pouring out of our asses.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
58. Again, that's the point
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 12:37 AM
Jun 2012

Those salaries aren't really so inflated when you compare it to purchasing power and the real price of goods. CPI and all that. If you included every single thing people need to live like they did 35 years ago (a house on 1 salary, sending the kids to college, a sizeable liquid savings account and a retirement savings) that is where salaries really should be.

Inflation already happened. Salaries never kept up. The difference has padded the pockets of the 1% for the last 30 years. Time to stop pretending $70,000 is a great salary.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
62. You are partially correct
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 09:50 AM
Jun 2012

What you stated accounts for a percentage (say, half) of the depression of wages. The other half is the byproduct of moving towards a global economy. If the entire world lived like the US, we would kill the planet in a generation or 2. The reality is that as we become more global, our overall standard of living WILL decrease some as the rest of the world's comes up. This has happened on a macro level, but as you point out, it has been disproportionaly borne by the working class and not the rich. I agree that we need to address the criminality in the the second piece. However, anyone who thinks that even after doing that we will return to the days of a wasteful nation with 1 salary at a job requiring only a couple hours training supporting an entire family is severly deluding themselves.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
65. I think global wages will stabilize before the planet goes out
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:27 AM
Jun 2012

Actually the planet will be fine, I mean before people meet their doom which I don't think will happen in 1 or 2 generations (people move to the cities, demand higher wages, birth rates plummet). It's already happening in China. Also, as the countries grow, their growth will slow (law of diminishing returns and all that), investment in those countries won't be as profitable and investment will return home. And once the whole world is on a level playing field, where is the 1% going to go to get their cheap labor then? It's not like there's another planet of 3rd world countries just waiting to be used as slave labor. Besides, it's not as cheap as they've made it out to be, especially when you factor in transportation costs and quality control issues. I think the whole globalization issue was a one-time profit boost to transfer as much wealth to the top 1% as possible while the getting is good. They know it's going to all come tumbling down soon, hence the more authoritarian measures we are seeing, and the efforts to prop up the charade for as long as possible. They know a system based on perpetual growth is unsustainable.

BTW, I don't think it's wasteful for a nation to have people earning living wages, but that's just me. Do I think we'll return there? Nope. The populace is too brainwashed with the 'you can be rich too if only you shit on your neighbor' mindset. I think it's more wasteful to have otherwise bright and productive and creative people working 65 hour weeks at 3 minimum wage jobs. What a waste of human capital that is.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
66. Define "living wage"
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 12:04 PM
Jun 2012

Everyone having cars, cell phones, television, and wasteful habits is not a "living wage." Being able to afford a roof, food, clothes, retirement, etc. is a living wage. I think we can return to the days of the latter. To expect the former is unrealistic, IMHO.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
70. I agree.
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 07:09 PM
Jun 2012

Although 'wasteful habits' are hard to define and cellphones and cars are necessary in order to hold down a job in many places.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
34. Okay, go into detail.. please
Thu May 31, 2012, 06:11 PM
May 2012

It's not like anybody reading this hasn't done the job before...

You want to talk about waste controls? Knowledge of hiring/firing decisions? How to put a schedule together? Inventory management tools and systems?


Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
60. Simple
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 03:59 AM
Jun 2012

Beyond the general stagnant or depressed wages/salaries from which we have all suffered since the Esteemed Mr. Reagan was President. This is a situation that is very, very, very true as stated by the statistics shown elsewhere in this thread and is on it's own enough to justify the greater wages. Frankly we should all be making a whole lot more than we are, but as we know the increases in productivity over the period seem to have only benefited about 1% of the population.

The OP stated that they were a Lead Stocker which is a Management Position akin to a Department Head or in some stores referred to as Grocery Department Manager. This position requires knowledge of ordering systems, scheduling, loss prevention, power equipment (fork lifts, yes, you must be trained & certified to operate them), food safety, possibly knowledge of refrigeration systems, possibly knowledge of hiring & firing (depending on the chain), possibly knowledge of alarm systems, possibly knowledge of cash handling systems and is in some chains as high as the #3 in the store chain of command.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
52. You have bought the lies friend
Thu May 31, 2012, 10:13 PM
May 2012

In that same period productivity went up, per employee, by around 300%. Why shouldn't all of us have benefitted by the advancements and additional productivity we were instrumental in creating?

Sure it sounds like a lot. if you buy the idea that progress ended 50 years ago and the "lesser of us" do not deserve to benefit by progress.

There were a lot more single income families then as well. So that 70k would represent progress without a free second income earner, which industry has more then gained for free.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
57. This is the problem of a global economy
Thu May 31, 2012, 11:51 PM
May 2012

If everyone lived at the standard of living we in the US do, the world would be dead in a generation or 2. Naturally, as we become global, there is an overall equalling out of resources (meaning the US has to drop, while the rest of the world rises). The issue is that the rich have used their power to ensure they have not seen the decrease.

Thus, while I agree the rich should take their hit and we should benefit from it, there is no way we would ever see the gap closed to what it was back then simply because of the global nature of our economy.

maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
6. My daughter just started a full-time job
Thu May 31, 2012, 12:21 PM
May 2012

in her field at a local aviary and makes 12.65 an hour. At least she gets benefits, but even at that rate..it's damn near impossible for her to afford rent, groceries, car payment, insurance and live the life a 23 year old single woman in America should be able to live.

It's ridiculous!

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
21. I was making a little more than that in 79
Thu May 31, 2012, 02:08 PM
May 2012

at a job that required nothing but physical labor...
but the big difference is that one could support a family on that and live a reasonable life.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
45. Around the same time, as a high school student,
Thu May 31, 2012, 09:12 PM
May 2012

I hadn't even broken through the $3/hr barrier yet. My first job paying more than $3/hour was in 1979, and that paid $3.25.

kenny blankenship

(15,689 posts)
8. It'll work! You just have to give it some time.
Thu May 31, 2012, 12:28 PM
May 2012

Patience, America. Your elected leaders are concerned for your welfare and know what's best.

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
12. Grocery store employees here lost their unions and good wages back in the 90s
Thu May 31, 2012, 12:47 PM
May 2012

There was a strike. I walked with them on their picket line. The company claimed they were overpaid. Wages were about the same as you cite in your OP. Shortly after the strike was settled, most of the union stores closed and larger chains who weren't union took over the local market. Last I heard, the workers were making barely above minimum wage.

maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
14. And I'd be willing to bet
Thu May 31, 2012, 01:02 PM
May 2012

that the non-union employees blame the unions for their ridiculously low pay.

One benefit to the Repukes killing off the Unions will be that they won't be around anymore for people to blame.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
47. One by one, they picked off the unionized workers. Grocery employees, meatpackers, bus drivers,
Thu May 31, 2012, 09:40 PM
May 2012

steelworkers, auto workers, air traffic controllers, miners, etc.

now it's time for the destruction of the last bastion of unionism in the country -- teachers and public workers.

every time they used the same tactics.

why are we so bloody stupid?

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
49. I don't believe we are stupid as much as not expecting the evil that drives the 1%
Thu May 31, 2012, 09:53 PM
May 2012

How many of us wake up every morning and wonder just how mean the world will be to us today?

Did you ever expect teachers to be vilified (by a Democratic president's Sec of Education) as badly as we have been?

Did you ever expect public employees to be attacked and their work to be dishonored as it has been in the last couple years?

I know I am still shocked by some of this evil. I am constantly going back to what it was like when I was a little girl and realized how downright mean some people were. It really blew me away. I feel that way again today and I am nearly 60 years old.

And I pay attention. Most people don't.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
51. I think the average person is kind of naive. My gripe is that after 40 years of this bs, they still
Thu May 31, 2012, 10:03 PM
May 2012

are, or still don't have time to pay attention, or do anything -- though they have time for TV, and traveling, and shopping for useless stuff. I call it stupid.

I also see that a lot of basically well-intentioned people, who wouldn't themselves do stuff like deliberately try to get someone fired, or bomb children in africa, or lock up black kids in order to profit from it -- are willing to go along to get along, look the other way, throw up their hands & say "That's just the way things are, what can you do?"

But the truth is, until it hits their relatively cosy situation, they basically don't really care.

When I was young, I wondered how the nazis could come to power & how people could just go along. I now know, and am quite confident that most of the people I know would do the same. The person who puts himself at risk in the face of power is the exception. Most people are suck-ups and go-alongs, & to be honest, I begin to despise human beings, me the big idealist in my youth.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
59. Astute observation that is chillingly spot-on
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 01:27 AM
Jun 2012

Your post is all too correct about far far too many people I've met and still know. Many of them are friends and family. I get so worn out trying to get them to connect the dots but they're too mentally lazy to care.

maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
69. I think another major point is that people just don't know
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 02:04 PM
Jun 2012

and the media doesn't do a good job of explaining what things were like "back in the day".

This country didn't just come up with Social Security out of the blue! No! They looked around and saw our elderly, people who had built and fought and sacrificed for this country living in the street, or "poor houses", or debtors prisons, or dead in the streets and the country said; This will not stand

This country didn't just create Medicare out of thin air! No! They looked around and saw our elderly and poor being bankrupted or forced into old folks homes where they were abused and neglected, and the country said; This will not stand

This country didn't just establish labor laws out of whole cloth! No! Workers were dying, toiling in filth, getting maimed, abused, killed, dismembered and ripped-off...only to be sent out to pasture with nothing after every last drop of blood had been sucked from them, and this country said; "This will not stand"

Look at the conditions back in the late 1800's to early 1900's to see where the Republicans are trying to take us. They say we can rely on the benelovence of the "job creators" and we no longer need those programs...and others that I didn't mention.

Look, corporations and executives have options. Let's take a look at a couple:

- They could pay me what my labor is worth, while their compensation is 10-15 times what my salary is (as was the case 50 years ago)

or,

- They could pay me a wage that ensures their compensation is 300-2000 times more than my salary WHICH IS WHAT THEY'VE DONE FOR THE PAST 40 YEARS

The only way we can influence these options is to balance the power so that the working class has a fighting chance.

When I see decent hard working Middle Class American's getting laid off and fired, while the top executives of their companies walk away with millions and billions, I understand where the power lies.

It's time to change that, but like they say...."those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it"

They_Live

(3,222 posts)
71. And what action should they take?
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 07:01 PM
Jun 2012

Once the dots are connected, and you realize how much we're being screwed, what then?

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
73. I'm not sure. But what I am sure of is that once there's some kind of critical mass willing to face
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:49 PM
Jun 2012

the fact & discuss it openly and often, the political landscape changes.

maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
67. Because there are enough ignorant asshats
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 01:42 PM
Jun 2012

that think if they support the policies of the Repukes, and work hard at their 35K a year job, they too will be as rich as Romney, and then they won't have to pay so much in taxes.

Oh...and they hate people that are different from them, because they are taking all the jobs that would help them get to Romney's income!

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
15. I don't understand how or why companies are allowed to
Thu May 31, 2012, 01:04 PM
May 2012

break their promise of pensions for workers. Should be illegal.

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
16. This is all true
Thu May 31, 2012, 01:06 PM
May 2012

Working grocery retail used to be a respectable job of dignity where you could carve out a living. Only in Europe that remains true where grocery workers are treated with respect compared to their U.S. counterparts.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
18. Same story here. I was making $8-$10 an hour in 1979.
Thu May 31, 2012, 01:07 PM
May 2012

The same job pays hardly any more today than it did in 1979.

What was once a good paying "stepping stone" job for an optimistic young person has become a despairing low pay dead end job for older people.

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
19. Incredible
Thu May 31, 2012, 01:22 PM
May 2012

$11.60 an hour was a lot of money in 1979 and I know there were a lot of people who really wanted to get a job at a grocery chain, but because there was so little turnover, they were rarely hiring.

This is clearly a perfect snapshot of what has happened to our so-called "middle class".

When I was in my early 20's, I could have worked pretty much any job full time and been able to afford food, shelter, and transportation. And almost any full time job came with health insurance.

maxrandb

(15,192 posts)
28. Today
Thu May 31, 2012, 05:01 PM
May 2012

I know people that are working two jobs, and still struggle to pay rent and living expenses.

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
32. Same here
Thu May 31, 2012, 05:57 PM
May 2012

Middle class is rapidly becoming an elusive dream for so many people. I am so tired of hearing people say, "If you work hard, blah, blah, blah..." because working hard will not necessarily mean you will be able to live a decent life. Really makes you appreciate the old song, "Work your fingers to the bone and what do you get? Bony fingers!"

malthaussen

(17,066 posts)
35. Load 16 tons, and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt.
Thu May 31, 2012, 06:17 PM
May 2012


True in 1956, true in 2012.

-- Mal

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
36. Yes, yes, yes!
Thu May 31, 2012, 06:46 PM
May 2012

My dad used to sing that song and he sounded like Tennessee Ernie Ford. Our culture is full of such references and people still don't get it. The rich and powerful will take as much from you as they can, as long as we allow it. I know there are exceptions, but throughout history people took advantage of those they deemed as lesser than them.

I don't understand what there is about some rich people, who somehow never have enough. Sheldon Adelson for example is worth $25 billion, but is anti-union? He is at the end of his life with more money than he could ever spend, and he resents working people wanting a reasonable wage and health insurance. How much money will unionized workers take away from him? Would he even notice? Someone needs to tell these people that they really, really, "can't take it with them" and they aren't going to live forever.

LibDemAlways

(15,139 posts)
22. I'm a substitute teacher. I have been making the same
Thu May 31, 2012, 02:20 PM
May 2012

$100.00 per day since 2003 and am getting fewer assignments these days because more and more laid off teachers are subbing. The district has a written policy that if a sub works more than 10 days in a row on a particular assignment, the pay goes up to $129.00 a day. So, to get around it, subs are only called for a max of 9 days and then someone else is brought in for the 10th. Pretty shitty considering we receive no benefits.

Screwing employees seems to be a widespread phenomenon these days.

NNN0LHI

(67,190 posts)
23. The new hires top pay now is about half of what I was making before I retired ten years ago
Thu May 31, 2012, 02:31 PM
May 2012

Generally speaking Americans aren't the sharpest tools in the shed any more.

I'm afraid we might have damn near a complete generation of people whose brains were ate up from lead paint. Can't think of any other reason for the mass stupidity I have witnessed in the past few decades.

Who in their right mind would elect some idiot for president who was best known for being washed up B-movie actor who starred with a chimpanzee? Especially knowing the chimpanzee was the smarter one of the two.

Don

 

OVERPAID01

(71 posts)
24. I earned 9.50 at my first job in 1983 as a service shop technician...
Thu May 31, 2012, 02:56 PM
May 2012

The same job now pays 8.50 an hour, same benefits but the work load is triple. Back in '83 we built 3 appliances each per day and got 10 dollars per machine as a bonus at week end, there were 3 of us. Now (I was offered the manager's position for 14.50 per hour), there are 6 workers and one "working manager". The same small shop (it was tight with 3 of us), is an assembly line structure with the "team" stripping down 60 machines per day and rebuilding (after professionally painted) and testing. 54 machines per day is required with a 10 dollar bonus (split 6 ways) for any machine above 54 machines per day broken down on average per month. The previous managers have all resigned after 3 months (I turned down the offer politely and should have been sainted for keeping my mouth shut). I did not apply for this job, nor have I been in touch with the company since 1986, someone in the upper management worked with me back then and recommended me. I have a wonderful job in the finance industry and went for the interview even though the money was less, out of pure curiosity, I was horrified. The "team" were all hispanic, most over 50 years of age, and all in one degree or other of failing health. The company is a giant in the industry, has been since the mid 90's, but the pay scale and lack of respect for the workers was a real eye opener. This nation's hiring practices scares me, it really worries me to see this type of treatment and lack of concern for the company's "assets".

 

Cronkite

(158 posts)
25. The job I first did at Bridgestone/Firestone 20 years ago pays 14% less.
Thu May 31, 2012, 04:11 PM
May 2012

I just saw an add for the exact same job I started out at in 1991 advertised at 14% less than what I earned. Other wages at that plant are dropping too- They shut down production of passenger tires and reduced production on their Truck/Bus tires for a year. They HAVE started rehiring production workers however the pay is 13.80 per hour. The former workforce earned on average 20 dollars an hour. That's a 30% cut in pay.

The GM plant in Spring Hill is rehiring workers for auto assembly jobs. Pay? 15.30 hr when it was well over 20 previously.

Nissan hired over 1000 workers for production of its "Leaf" car in Smyrna, TN HOWEVER they are all "contract workers" making 11 dollars an hour. The existing workforce at the plant earns close to 20.

This is having a "trickle down" effect on the local auto supplier jobs too. Jobs that USED to pay 12 to 16 dollars an hour are being advertised for 8 to 12 dollars an hour now.

Good luck with any housing "recovery" with these wages. Good luck with ANY type of recovery. Despite the claims anyone that does their own grocery shopping KNOWS prices are going up while wages decline. Gasoline is up, utilities are up, the cost of almost EVERYTHING is going up except the cheap crap from China we continue to buy.

There is plenty of blame to go around for both political parties. BOTH of them sold out the American worker.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
26. Finish carpenter in Denver, CO, 1984 $24 p/hr + benefits.
Thu May 31, 2012, 04:18 PM
May 2012

Finish carpenter in Denver, CO, 2012 $12 p/hr no benefits.

We could bring down the server putting in examples of the what happened after we bought The Big Lie. Put another way, "stupid is as stupid does".

madinmaryland

(64,920 posts)
37. I started at a grocery story in 1977 in NW Ohio and was paid minimum wage. I worked there
Thu May 31, 2012, 07:10 PM
May 2012

until I was 19 and continued to earn minimum wage plus maybe a few cents which I think the highest was $2.85/hr.

It was a small IGA in a small NW Ohio community.

xloadiex

(628 posts)
38. I started at UPS
Thu May 31, 2012, 07:17 PM
May 2012

in 1990 at 8.50 an hour. Starting pay at UPS now(my son now works there) is 9.50 an hour. It has gone up 1.00 in 22 years. This is a teamster job.

 

StarryNight

(71 posts)
50. 1983 UPS temp Xmas help: $8.00/hr. 2012 UPS package handler: $8.50/hr. i ask you,
Thu May 31, 2012, 09:57 PM
May 2012

do things cost what they did 30 years ago??!!!! i highly doubt it. young people today don't realize how wages have steadily declined for decades, all so the CEO and shareholders can enjoy ever-increasing salaries, bonuses, and stock prices.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
41. I'm stickin' to the union
Thu May 31, 2012, 07:48 PM
May 2012

(even though I never had a job in which I could have joined one) because it's the unions that insure the continuation of the minimum wage, the idea (if not the reality in low-paid jobs) of paid vacations, safe working conditions, benefits for ordinary employees, and much more. In fact just about everything that a working person relies on in order to subsist exists thanks to unions.

I'm a union maid, and I'm stickin' to the union.

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TNLib

(1,819 posts)
43. That's a depressing thought
Thu May 31, 2012, 08:24 PM
May 2012

as an IT worker with over 10 years experience I make about what a grocery clerk made in the 1970's

Omaha Steve

(99,073 posts)
44. Where is that graph Ed uses?
Thu May 31, 2012, 08:37 PM
May 2012

It shows the decline in union membership and the decline in pay and benefits as a direct result. I can't understand why so many people are anti union.

OS

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
46. I made more as a entry clerk-typist in a big corporation in the 70s than i did at my last
Thu May 31, 2012, 09:37 PM
May 2012

job at management level in a small non-profit, in real terms.

It's quite amazing. No wonder half of workers make under $32K.

EvolveOrConvolve

(6,452 posts)
55. I worked a grocery store union job in the early 90's for almost $20/hr
Thu May 31, 2012, 10:23 PM
May 2012

With the liberal overtime policy, time and half in the evenings or weekends, and double time holiday pay, I made almost $60k/year. I'm now a highly educated software engineer working at a large (and fairly well-known) high-tech company creating mission critical software, and I'm only making about 10k more per year than that supermarket job.

 

WingDinger

(3,690 posts)
64. My uncle was the union rep. Lucky's used his kid to rubberstamp wage theft. He, being shop steward.
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:21 AM
Jun 2012

They gathered us up, and told us, there will be no overtime. then, they said, you MUST finish throwing your load, or you WILL be written up. So, I asked, then we work free time? They repeated, you WILL finish throwing your load, Or you will be written up.


The end of good grocery jobs, I witnessed. Union meeting, on whether to accept new Fedmart contract. They implimented the GRANDFATHER CLAUSE. Screw the new workers, but retain old wage for oldies. Sounds good, till you realize that they got rid of all oldies within months. I COULD NOT make anyone understand the threat.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
68. I now drive a semi for a company
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 01:54 PM
Jun 2012

that bought my old factory. I worked at this factory for 25 years and made a decent living.

The new company is non union and pays hourly workers piss poor wages. I recently found a 1979 union contract book and looked up hourly wages for different job classifications. I wasn't a bit surprised, but many of my new co workers were when I brought the contract book into work and left it on the break table.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
72. $12.40 an hour does not seem like the worst wage to me
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 07:11 PM
Jun 2012

especially if it includes benefits.

One thing from the employer side is that the cost of benefits has gone way up, since the cost of health care has gone way up. It would be interesting to compare what the company was paying for that health and dental in 1982 compared to what it is paying now.

The inlfation calculator says that $11.60 in 1984 is the same as $25.69 today. I would consider that to be darn good money.

pitohui

(20,564 posts)
75. it's darn good money if you don't want to ever have a child, a home, or a retirement
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:04 PM
Jun 2012

indeed it's great money if you're a teen-ager living in your parent's house but most grocery store clerks these days are adults and if you're earning $12.40 an hour you will never be able to own a home, give a decent life to a child, or retire

there is nothing "darn good money" about making so little that you cannot have a basic standard of living or plan anything for the future, some people actually work for a purpose other than to go out and get wasted on friday night you know!

in 1982 employers paid for your health care (no one got dental care any more than they do now) and today employEES have hundreds of dollars a month taken out of their check for just their share of health care so "benefits" are not all that...would you want to live a life where a full time job would not provide enough to allow you to have a child, a decent higher education, a house, a retirement? then why is it good enough for somebody else?

put down your bogus inflation calculator and try to apply for a job and see what it's like down on the ground in the real world...

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
76. I said $25.69 an hour is darn good money
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:15 AM
Jun 2012

$12.40 is still decent money, from where I sit. I, myself, make $15.53 an hour, although I just applied for a job that pays $34 an hour, and I have only been working full time since last October when I made $14.40 an hour.

My health insurance, such as it is, costs me nothing out of my paycheck, and it covers medical, vision and dental on a separate plan. If I had a family it would cost me about $300 a month, and my employer would pay another $300 a month for me that a single guy does not get paid.

When I bought my house in November 2001, I was making $11.20 an hour plus some overtime and a shift differential for the weekends. That is equivalent to $14.32 today. Then I got fired in March of 2002, shortly before my 40th birthday (happy birthday to meeee). In August of 2002 I was lucky enough to get a part time job which paid $10.69 an hour plus benefits - paid vacation, paid holidays, paid sick leave and retirement (which I paid 4% for).

And that's how I paid for my house, although working full time after May 2004 helped me to pay it off by October 2005.

I am pretty sure there are a million or more still working for minimum wage at $7.25 an hour, if they suddenly got a job that paid 171% more they would probably think that was pretty good. Not everybody needs to have an annual income of googolplex.

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