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kentauros

(29,414 posts)
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:43 PM Jun 2016

Your Vehicle Can Be a Trap...

[font size="4"]Your Vehicle Can Be a Trap: Many Have Tried to Cross Flooded Streets and Many Have Failed[/font]
Jonathan Belles
Published: June 3, 2016

Numerous cars have been swept off roads by floodwater in Texas this week.

On Tuesday, a jeep was swept away by floodwater in just minutes in New Braunfels, between San Antonio and Austin.

Later in the week, a truck was taken across the Brazos River as the driver attempted to cross the river. The passengers, including one canine friend, are safe – but the truck didn't make it.


We aren't learning our lesson

The single worst decision you can make in a flash flood is driving your vehicle into floodwaters of unknown depth.

An average of 82 people have died in the U.S. from flash floods each year from 2006-2015, according to the National Weather Service. That's more than double the average death toll from lightning.

In 2015, 155 people died from flooding, and it was the number one cause of weather-related fatalities in 2015.



Percent of flood-related deaths by situation from 1995-2010, excluding Hurricane Katrina flood deaths.


Almost two out of every three U.S. flash flood deaths from 1995-2010, excluding fatalities from Hurricane Katrina, occurred in vehicles, according to Dr. Greg Forbes, severe weather expert for The Weather Channel.

(Informative video at link)

I know the majority of y'all reading this don't give a shit because this is happening in Texas. But, flash-floods can happen anywhere, and the physics of the water is the same, too. Don't get caught in one of these situations. Turn around and find another route, or find a restaurant to wait it out.
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Your Vehicle Can Be a Trap... (Original Post) kentauros Jun 2016 OP
Happens in NM, too Warpy Jun 2016 #1
Kentauros, this is great information. truedelphi Jun 2016 #2
Probably no one can help with climbing cliffs to get out of a flood ;) kentauros Jun 2016 #3
A true story about a "little bit of fast movnig water" truedelphi Jun 2016 #14
Have you seen the photos from the flooding in Germany? kentauros Jun 2016 #15
My rule for high water on roads. Igel Jun 2016 #11
I admire your carefulness. truedelphi Jun 2016 #13
Learned to drive in a hurricane. Rex Jun 2016 #4
If Safety Doesn't Work-Even Driving through Motor Deep Water is Likely to Cause Thousands of Dollars Stallion Jun 2016 #5
Thank you. 840high Jun 2016 #6
There's a saying they use in my town to inform people about flooding danger... Cracklin Charlie Jun 2016 #7
It is a well-known saying. kentauros Jun 2016 #8
It was part of an overhaul the National Weather Service (NWS) did in the last 5 years NutmegYankee Jun 2016 #16
Well, I hope it helped. kentauros Jun 2016 #17
k&r Liberal_in_LA Jun 2016 #9
K&R!!!!!! burrowowl Jun 2016 #10
I call low water crossings IQ Tests. hobbit709 Jun 2016 #12

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
1. Happens in NM, too
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:55 PM
Jun 2016

Locals know better even if they know where the road is because the water that's coming off a 10,000+ foot mountain is moving so damn fast only 6 inches of it can take a car. Lucky people manage to get the door open and jump onto a bank. Car's usually not much good after being flooded and banged to pieces on either side of the arroyo.

It's usually some out of stater in a big hurry who flips everybody waiting it out off as he roars into the water thinking 4WD will save him when there's zero traction.

Drive through water only when 1) it's not rising 2) it's not moving and 3) you know where the road is. You can survive a puddle. You can't survive a flood.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
2. Kentauros, this is great information.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:57 PM
Jun 2016

And I try can figure out if it applies to me.

Right now it does, as I am mostly driving during the day. But back when I had night time commutes to go into work, it was rather irrelevant.

At 10Pm, my car might be going over a hill, and I have no way at all of knowing if on the other side of that hill, there will be high waters or not. Since human beings don't have the ability, at 55mph,. to know if it is merely a low lying puddle spread all across the road, or a full raging creek, just being out at night in rainy weather is risky.

And in many places in the nation, flash floods hit so hard and so fast, I have no idea of what a person in a car would do.

I am thinking of some of the roads out of Boulder CO for instance. You have two extremely high cliffs on either side of you and/or your vehicle. No way to climb to safety and probably no time to do it either.

I have fond remembrances of hiking along some little used roads outside of Boulder. There would be these friendly green reminder signs at various intervals, all with the stern warning about that KILLER flash flood: SEEK HIGHER GROUND!

I mean, that is great advice, for any mountain sheep or goats who can read road signs.

But of little help to most human hikers, as most humans haven no way at all to scurry fifty feet straight up cliffs!

####

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
3. Probably no one can help with climbing cliffs to get out of a flood ;)
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:05 AM
Jun 2016

But usually highway departments know the places along their roads where waters can flash-flood across them. That's when you'll see rather sturdy markers at the sides, sometimes noted in feet, and sometimes just colors. One of the threads on the soldiers who lost their lives at Fort Hood pointed out three different colors for each type of water crossing capability. Drivers would have to be taught that system, or signs put up.

Either way, if more people understood that a little bit of fast-moving water is enough to float and move their "heavy" vehicle, maybe fewer lives would be lost.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
14. A true story about a "little bit of fast movnig water"
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:13 PM
Jun 2016

About three summers ago, I heard the rush of water out in the front yard. At first i panicked thinking I had left the hose on all night!!

Then I realized it was way too much water to be from any one person's garden hose.

I went out to the front to see that a river was coming down the street. It took up about two thirds of our two lane road. (Very small, almost private area of a tract neighborhood, not a very wide road.)

The water was maybe 2 1/2 to 3 feet high. It turns out that a major water main had broken and was spewing all this water out.

My neighbor across the street kept waving me to wade across so we could discuss it together. She didn't get how violent that water was. When it finally receded later in the day, it had removed about one foot of the topsoil that the neighbor one house over had as his side yard. That soil had been moved five hundred feet below his home.

And boulders the size of footballs had easily been strewn across the bottom of our driveway. The 2 foot in diameter culvert that runs under our driveway had been packed to the brim with pebbles and smaller rocks, so it had to be pressure hosed out by special equipment the water company owned, so we wouldn't have flooding in those places the coming winter.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
15. Have you seen the photos from the flooding in Germany?
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:39 PM
Jun 2016

Small boulders piled up in one town where the water either narrowed or was diverted and could no longer carry the rocks. No, you don't want to wade out into fast-moving water, ever.

I'm guessing your neighbor across from you doesn't understand that, or hasn't been in a situation to learn it firsthand. That's about the only way some folks ever learn.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
11. My rule for high water on roads.
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jun 2016

I know how high my engine is off the ground.

I pay attention to the roads when I go over them when they're dry. I know how high the curbs are. I know how high road-side plantings are. This is more true of places I go frequently and close to home. Also areas at the bottom of slopes where water's likely to collect.

When the road floods, I have a built-in gauge to tell how deep the water is. Recently a road flooded. I could see the left-hand curb, and so I knew the water was perhaps 3-4 inches but not more than 6" deep. Car was good to go in it. On the other side of the road I couldn't see the curb. No gauge, so I clung to the left shoulder.

Another place, same day, I hadn't paid close attention to the natural height gauges. I couldn't tell if the water was 6" or 16", so I turned around.

It's a question of doing the observation ahead of time and paying attention to the road itself just the traffic, and certainly not audio books, passengers, radio, cell phone, etc. (And, yes, it's really, really boring.)

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
13. I admire your carefulness.
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:05 PM
Jun 2016

Just out of curiosity, where did you get the gauge that measures the water depth? Is it a standard add on for some car, and if so, what make and model?

I haven't really had to drive at night in bad weather since around 2008, and of course in Northern California the chances of getting swept away in a flash flood between May 1st and October 1st, even in El Nino years, are probably rather low. Might be equal odds with getting hit by a meteor.

It is nice that there are devices to help us out more these days. Back in the day, all a person had was AM radio stations that did all day news with commute and traffic reports every fifteen minutes. And as you point out, there is always the need to have personal ways of noting any disturbances.

Stallion

(6,473 posts)
5. If Safety Doesn't Work-Even Driving through Motor Deep Water is Likely to Cause Thousands of Dollars
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:09 AM
Jun 2016

of damage to your engine. Don't do it. Learned that lesson the hard way

Cracklin Charlie

(12,904 posts)
7. There's a saying they use in my town to inform people about flooding danger...
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:25 AM
Jun 2016

It's a warning about driving into water of unknown depth.

"Turn around, don't drown!"

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
8. It is a well-known saying.
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:29 AM
Jun 2016

I thought I'd heard in the video at the link that it was part of a campaign by the National Weather Service. That would make sense.

And the only way I can think of getting it to remain in people's heads is to demonstrate in a controlled situation just what will happen when they try to drive across moving flood waters. Because even seeing other people's failures on YouTube doesn't seem to get through to them...

NutmegYankee

(16,178 posts)
16. It was part of an overhaul the National Weather Service (NWS) did in the last 5 years
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:50 PM
Jun 2016

Basically it was noticed that people were disregarding the warnings the NWS was putting out, and people were dying as a result. To fix that, the NWS hired psychologists to craft messages that more clearly indicated why people need to take action.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
17. Well, I hope it helped.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:02 AM
Jun 2016

And thanks for pointing out how it came to be

Honestly, I think some people are truly too stupid and/or pigheaded to understand the dangers involved. Unless it directly happens to them, the thinking seems to be "Well, it can't happen to me!"

And you'd think with all of the YouTube videos and news-station reports showing that it most certainly can happen to them, that something would sink in. But, as we see all too often, obstinance can be deadly.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
12. I call low water crossings IQ Tests.
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:02 AM
Jun 2016

Is you or is you not smart enough to stay alive. If I see water moving over the road, I stop and turn around and go the long way.

And I've seen more than one person get a marginal passing grade trying to go through.

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