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struggle4progress

(118,041 posts)
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:26 PM Jun 2016

An inquiry into the doctrine lately propagated concerning Muslims

7 dead Wakefield MA 26 December 2000


2 dead Santee CA 5 March 2001


3 dead Tucson AZ 28 Octoiber 2002


5 dead Meridian MS 8 July 2003


9 dead Red Lake Indian Reservation MN 21 March 2005


6 dead Goleta CA 30 January 2006


5 dead Nickel Mines PA 2 October 2006


5 dead Salt Lake City UT 12 Feb 2007


32 dead Blacksburg VA 16 April 2007


8 dead Omaha NE 5 December 2007


5 dead Dekalb IL 14 February 2008


13 dead Binghamton NY 3 April 2009


13 dead Ft Hood TX 5 November 2009


8 dead Manchester CT


6 dead Tucson AZ 8 January 2011


8 dead Seal Beach CA 12 October 2011
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7 dead Oakland CA 2 April 2012


12 dead Aurora CO 20 July 2012


6 dead Oak Creek WI 5 August 2012


6 dead Minneapolis MN 28 September 2012
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3 dead Brookfield WI 21 October 2012


27 dead Newtown CT 14 December 2012


5 dead Santa Monica CA 7 June 2013


12 dead Washington DC 16 September 2013


3 dead Ft. Hood TX 2 April 2014


6 dead Isla Vista CA 23 May 2014


9 dead Charleston SC 18 June 2015


5 dead Chattanooga TN 16 July 2015


9 dead Roseburg OR 1 )ctober 2915


3 dead Colorado Springs CO 29 November 2015


14 dead San Bernardino CA 2 December 2015

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
An inquiry into the doctrine lately propagated concerning Muslims (Original Post) struggle4progress Jun 2016 OP
Yeah. It's bigoted as fuck. bunnies Jun 2016 #1
Islam is bigoted as fuck... MellowDem Jun 2016 #6
"if the person is Muslim ... then it’s terrorism rather than someone who may have a mental illness" L. Coyote Jun 2016 #2
If it's terrorism or mental illness then you're safe loyalsister Jun 2016 #5
Terrorism or mental illness doesn't make us safe. Don't conflate issues. L. Coyote Jun 2016 #9
Please loyalsister Jun 2016 #10
Great post malaise Jun 2016 #3
But... but... they're different! I think it's time for people to read up on attribution errors ck4829 Jun 2016 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author lapucelle Jun 2016 #7
If you want to identify with bigotry... MellowDem Jun 2016 #8
 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
1. Yeah. It's bigoted as fuck.
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:31 PM
Jun 2016

It can't possibly be that this asshole simply hated gay people. Or that (given the new information) he was a self-hating closeted gay man. No. It absofuckinglutely MUST have to do with being Muslim.

Holy shit.

Edit: typing while angry

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
6. Islam is bigoted as fuck...
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:48 PM
Jun 2016

explicitly in its texts, as are all the Abrahamic religions.

People pretending bigoted as fuck religions have NOTHING to do with these types of incidents are just defending the power and privilege that are mainstream bigoted ideologies, oftentimes because people want to identify with said bigoted religions while not having to answer for the horrible shit their bigoted texts inspire.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
2. "if the person is Muslim ... then it’s terrorism rather than someone who may have a mental illness"
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:33 PM
Jun 2016
"... if the person is Muslim that did it, then it’s terrorism rather than someone who may have a mental illness or someone who have other causes ..."

WATCH FULL SHOW - Democracy NOW - June 13, 2016
Openly Gay Muslim Imam Reacts to Orlando: Clubs Like Pulse are Safe Havens for LGBT Muslims, Too

Orlando Massacre Comes After Lawmakers in U.S. Filed More Than 200 Anti-LGBT Bills

Authorities have identified the Orlando gunman as 29-year-old Omar Mateen. He was born in 1986 in New York to Afghan parents. Since 2007 Mateen had worked as a security guard at G4S, the largest private security firm in the world. The FBI interviewed Mateen in 2013 and 2014 for possible terrorist ties. According to The New York Times, he was placed under FBI surveillance for a time, but the agency eventually closed its inquiry. There are reports that Mateen called 911 around the time of the assault and declared his allegiance to the Islamic State, but no audio of the call has been released to the public. We speak to Imam Daayiee Abdullah, executive director of Mecca Institute. Imam Abdullah also is one of the first openly gay imams in the Western Hemisphere. .............

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
5. If it's terrorism or mental illness then you're safe
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:42 PM
Jun 2016

even though you know your mostly ordinary rage filled, bigoted neighbor has a large arsenal.
These are people we pass in the store and they are most often not so much an "other" as they are ordinary people living in the mainstream with anger issues.
People need to stop comforting themselves by using stereotypes to imagine distance from these events. The thing the all have in common is guns and a culture that glorifies violence and conflict.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
9. Terrorism or mental illness doesn't make us safe. Don't conflate issues.
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:53 PM
Jun 2016

The issue I point to is the blame is assigned to terrorism if it is a Muslim. If it is a white, then it isn't a terrorism issue. That's blatantly racist and wrong. The problem is the mental state of the shooter.

Of course the absence of guns would make us safer from mentally unstable people. What makes us safe from the irrationality of racism and hatred of "others"? What make society safe even when people have mental issues? Absence of hatred would be a great start. Turn off the Trump channel!

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
10. Please
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 11:11 PM
Jun 2016

It wasn't obvious that I was referring to media labels? When the media gives the shooters an othering label like "mentally unstable" or terrorism, people are comforted because they don't think they know anyone who is either.

The truth is that it is hate and ordinary rage are not mental illnesses and there are hateful bigots who do not participate in terrorist planning or hate groups among us every single day. If we as a culture don't have the political will to rationally examine what this sense of entitlement to own instruments designed to kill enables, we are allowing a bunch of narcissistic ugly Americans to shrug the killings off.

ck4829

(34,977 posts)
4. But... but... they're different! I think it's time for people to read up on attribution errors
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:41 PM
Jun 2016

This phenomenon actually has a name. The ultimate attribution error.

When 'our' people do acts of violence like mass shootings; then media, politicians, and everyday people will attribute the violence to something beyond the perpetrator's control, oh he was mentally ill, he was drunk, he had a bad day, he was a victim too, etc. Long story short, there are things beyond their control that had a role if not was behind the violence entirely.

When 'they' (I.e. Muslims) do it; they are apparently fully conscious of the violence, they are ready and willing fighters and conspirators, the short version here is that their internal traits and decisions are the deciding factor here.

It's time to name it and shame those who persist in using it.

Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
8. If you want to identify with bigotry...
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:52 PM
Jun 2016

Then you should have to answer for it. Islam, Christianiy, and Judaism all have hateful, bigoted, violent texts that inspire all sorts of terrible shit in the world.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you identify with a bigoted religion, YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM. Good people identifying with these mainstream, widespread, bigoted religions is what keeps the bigoted shit in them more credible.

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