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Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:10 PM

 

Thom Hartman just nullified Godwin's law for the next 4 years

Last edited Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:57 PM - Edit history (2)

Sorry people he said that on his show today just before either posted it. He wanted to refer to trump as being Hitler-like. Comparing his rallies to the
Nuremberg rallies etc.

28 replies, 4162 views

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply Thom Hartman just nullified Godwin's law for the next 4 years (Original post)
Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 OP
unblock Dec 2016 #1
forgotmylogin Dec 2016 #4
unblock Dec 2016 #7
oberliner Dec 2016 #8
unblock Dec 2016 #9
oberliner Dec 2016 #14
unblock Dec 2016 #17
oberliner Dec 2016 #21
unblock Dec 2016 #23
oberliner Dec 2016 #28
sarcasmo Dec 2016 #12
Wounded Bear Dec 2016 #2
Achilleaze Dec 2016 #5
Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #19
baldguy Dec 2016 #3
Mika Dec 2016 #6
Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #16
MineralMan Dec 2016 #10
Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #18
MineralMan Dec 2016 #20
Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #22
Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #26
cwydro Dec 2016 #11
Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #15
Achilleaze Dec 2016 #24
LanternWaste Dec 2016 #13
haele Dec 2016 #25
stevenleser Dec 2016 #27

Response to Ohioblue22 (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:14 PM

1. godwin's law is very misunderstood.

it only says that eventually, in an online discussion, someone will mention hitler/nazis.

it's commonly misunderstood to mean things like, whoever mentions hitler/nazis first loses the argument.

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Response to unblock (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:21 PM

4. I've heard it as

basically the point where an online argument jumps the shark. If the original subject was not about Hitler/Nazis to begin with, it's the point the discussion has descended into reductio ad absurdum and all further continuation is pointless. That's been shortened to "the argument is over/someone loses" but it's like "Oh, the alien babies are real people have contributed, I'm out."

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Response to forgotmylogin (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:27 PM

7. as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving hitler approaches 1

that's the original.

the idea that the discussion is then over, as you describe, and/or lost by whoever brought up hitler/nazis, is common, and listed in wiki as a "corollary", but it's very dangerous as it can easily lead to shutting down discussion when the the analogy actually makes sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

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Response to unblock (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:28 PM

8. It's not a real law

 

It's just an experiment Mike Godwin made up.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:31 PM

9. hmm. not an experiment really. perhaps "godwin's saw"?

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Response to unblock (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:46 PM

14. He says it was an experiment

 

So, I set out to conduct an experiment – to build a counter-meme designed to make discussion participants see how they are acting as vectors to a particularly silly and offensive meme…and perhaps to curtail the glib Nazi comparisons.

https://www.wired.com/1994/10/godwin-if-2/

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Response to oberliner (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:55 PM

17. interesting article. subtle distinction perhaps, but i think the experiment wasn't the law itself

rather the experiment was promulgating the law and observing the effects, to see if it actually curtailed gratuitous nazi/hitler references.

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Response to unblock (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:02 PM

21. Fair enough

 

But I think it has essentially morphed into a more expansive idea (i.e. that making a knee-jerk Hitler comparison without fully thinking it through is foolish).

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Response to oberliner (Reply #21)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:05 PM

23. my concern is that it has morphed into the idea that *any* hitler comparison is foolish.

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Response to unblock (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 04:43 PM

28. The term "nazi" is often used flippantly to describe any mean or strict person

 

That is sort of a pet peeve of mine, to be honest.

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Response to unblock (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:38 PM

12. I will use Orange Julius.

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:15 PM

2. A little context would be helpful....nt

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:22 PM

5. Yah, what did Harmann do? Or say?

Or are we just "supposed to know" somehow?

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Response to Achilleaze (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:59 PM

19. Sorry he said it out the radio

 

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:21 PM

3. Gee, that's for that Breaking News Thom, Mr. Russia Today.

 

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:26 PM

6. Love posts like this. WTF are you talking about? Do have ANYTHING to inform us?

 




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Response to Mika (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:53 PM

16. Sorry he said that on his show.

 

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:33 PM

10. Link, please.

We are not looking at the same thing you are. If you want to alert us to something, post a link to it. We cannot see through your eyes.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:58 PM

18. He is talking about it now on the radio he's comparing trump to hitler

 

For example he's comparing trump's rallies to the Nuremberg rallies

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:01 PM

20. Ah, I see. But, I'm not listening to whatever radio station

you are listening to. Probably very few people on DU are. So, we had no idea what you were talking about. Providing information in thread-starting posts is the polite thing to do, so people won't be confused or wonder what your source might be.

I still don't know what Hartmann said, you see, that led to your original post.

Oh, well, never mind...

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:02 PM

22. It's OK. It's not a big deal

 

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 04:06 PM

26. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017415804

 

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:33 PM

11. Wtf is this about?

These kinds of OPs are so ridiculous.

No link, no hint, nothing.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:52 PM

15. I can't link to one sentence he spoke on his show

 

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:35 PM

24. But you could paraphrase

That would qualify as a clue for those who are not tuned into his radio channel...most of us.

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:39 PM

13. Invoking Godwin's Law has been as valid as calling Dibs or Shotgun in any formal discussion.

 

Invoking Godwin's Law has been as valid as calling Dibs or Shotgun in any formal discussion.

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:44 PM

25. No, Godwin's law only applies to discussions that don't start out about Nazis or Nazi activities.

With Steve Bannon and other nativists/supremicists, KKK'ers hanging around and supporting the administration, with the use of Nazi propaganda tactics and potential adoption of Nazi government policies (forced birth, isolation of religious/ethnic minorities amongst the citizenry, approval of extra-judicial activities against perceived social deviance.) in the current administration, Godwin's law does not apply.


Haele

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Response to Ohioblue22 (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 04:11 PM

27. Godwin himself said it's probably valid to discuss analogies between Trump, the alt right and Nazism

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/?utm_term=.63636b6cc2ce
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My Facebook timeline and Twitter feed have been blowing up lately. And whenever that happens, it’s almost always because someone’s making comparisons to Hitler or Nazis or the Holocaust somewhere. Sure enough, as Trump pontificates about immigrants or ethnic or religious minorities, with scarcely less subtlety than certain early 20th-century political aspirants in Europe did, people on the Internet feel compelled to ask me what I think about it.

Why? Simple: Because 25 years ago, when the Internet was still a pup, I came up with Godwin’s Law. In its original form, Godwin’s Law goes like this: “As an online discussion continues, the probability of a reference or comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.”

Invoking Hitler or Nazis (or World War II or the Holocaust) is common in public life these days, both in the United States and around the world, and it has been for quite a while. Back in 1990, I set out — half-seriously and half-whimsically — to do something about it.

Through most of the 1980s, I’d been a hobbyist using computer “bulletin-board systems” that connected small local communities by telephone lines. I couldn’t help but notice how often comparisons to Hitler or Nazis came up in heated exchanges, usually as a kind of rhetorical hammer to express rage or contempt for one’s opponent. Once I was back in school to study law, I leveraged my student status to get a free Internet-based computer account. With access to the global Internet came still more hyperbolic Hitler and Nazi comparisons.

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