Thu Jan 5, 2017, 02:51 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

About the Chicago kidnap/torture/video: Help me to understand

This thing was live-streamed on Facebook. He may have been held for at least 24 hours. And no one--NO ONE--who watched that video and the heinous acts being perpetrated on a disabled person thought to call the police??

What is wrong with people?

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65 replies	Author	Time	Post
About the Chicago kidnap/torture/video: Help me to understand (Original post)	MichMary	Jan 2017	OP
A total lack of empathy.	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#1
What happens in a person's life	MichMary	Jan 2017	#2
Perhaps being treated as less than human.	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#5
I agree with that. If people constantly hear that they won't be shit	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#8
One of the results of systematic racism and extreme inequality.	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#12
Bull fucking shit	NobodyHere	Jan 2017	#29
Are you a product of your environment?	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#49
I know I have free will	NobodyHere	Jan 2017	#56
That makes two of us.	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#57
Not sure that's true in this case	MichMary	Jan 2017	#14
Agreed. I posted a link to the Chicago Tribune story. eom	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#16
That is even worse... Maybe it's a group home?	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#18
Could be	MichMary	Jan 2017	#20
I'm just sticking to news print. I will probably never watch the video	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#22
Maybe drugs?	xor	Jan 2017	#58
There's a bottle of vodka visible in the video.	Warren DeMontague	Jan 2017	#62
Excuse me. A mentally disturbed vindictive idiot	underthematrix	Jan 2017	#3
Do you have a source claiming nobody called the police?	hexola	Jan 2017	#4
Well, if someone had called	MichMary	Jan 2017	#15
There was another story about a guy abducted and tortured at a trap house	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#6
+1 nT	MichMary	Jan 2017	#21
Do we know that no one called the police?	WillowTree	Jan 2017	#7
Sounds more like an assumption at this point...	hexola	Jan 2017	#11
If someone called them and they decided to not act...	scscholar	Jan 2017	#60
According to a noticeable portion of DU	sarisataka	Jan 2017	#9
Here is a link from the Chicago Tribune	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#10
Technical question	MichMary	Jan 2017	#19
I am not the one to answer that type of question.	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#25
From a technical perspective that's for sure possible.	xor	Jan 2017	#59
It's Facebook Live, it may have only been broadcast to a small group of friends any	Chernobyl	Jan 2017	#13
Gotcha	MichMary	Jan 2017	#17
Certain DUers seem more upset with this	RandiFan1290	Jan 2017	#23
I noticed the exact same thing.	philosslayer	Jan 2017	#24
You're not fooling anyone. nt	RandiFan1290	Jan 2017	#27
+1	RelativelyJones	Jan 2017	#51
Refresh my memory	sarisataka	Jan 2017	#31
This message was self-deleted by its author	RandiFan1290	Jan 2017	#34
Some of us weren't members of this forum when the SC Church shooting took place	Chernobyl	Jan 2017	#32
This message was self-deleted by its author	RandiFan1290	Jan 2017	#37
of course	heaven05	Jan 2017	#40
Care to point any out?	Ace Rothstein	Jan 2017	#42
Certain DUers seem less upset with this	Renew Deal	Jan 2017	#55
Kinda hurts	romanic	Jan 2017	#65
It was reported the perps were TEXTING the parents during the assult.	hexola	Jan 2017	#26
From the ChiTrib article above	hexola	Jan 2017	#28
Can't imagine what it was like for the parents	MichMary	Jan 2017	#35
The two women who were arrested are sisters. It just keeps getting worse	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#30
I feel sorry for their parents, too	MichMary	Jan 2017	#38
Don Lemon blamed bad home training	HoneyBadger	Jan 2017	#41
Yup, for sure	MichMary	Jan 2017	#44
Let them rot in jail.	cwydro	Jan 2017	#47
No excuses given. The bed has been made	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#48
Yes.	cwydro	Jan 2017	#50
The ones I feel bad about are her kids and of course the victim and his family	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#53
do we know how many people saw it ?	JI7	Jan 2017	#33
No	MichMary	Jan 2017	#36
Well hate is all	heaven05	Jan 2017	#39
Please tell me you're not	MichMary	Jan 2017	#43
of course not, this kid DID NOT deserve this treatment	heaven05	Jan 2017	#46
Other than them saying "Fuck Trump", Trump and Bannon have NOTHING to do with this.	Jake Stern	Jan 2017	#54
believe what you must	heaven05	Jan 2017	#64
Yup.	cwydro	Jan 2017	#45
You don't know that. This is a developing story	Warpy	Jan 2017	#52
It occurs to me that even if someone did report it immediately / while it was happening.....	WillowTree	Jan 2017	#61
Some people suck.	Warren DeMontague	Jan 2017	#63

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 02:53 PM

guillaumeb (42,641 posts)

1. A total lack of empathy.

Like that lack of empathy demonstrated by the GOP that is eager to deny healthcare to millions under the label of freedom.

Reply to this post

Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 02:55 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

2. What happens in a person's life

that makes them lose their humanity?

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 02:57 PM

guillaumeb (42,641 posts)

5. Perhaps being treated as less than human.

And knowing that they have no prospects for anything better.

And I do not say this to excuse what they are accused of doing. There is absolutely no excuse. But people are shaped by their environment.

Reply to this post

Response to guillaumeb (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:00 PM

NWCorona (8,541 posts)

8. I agree with that. If people constantly hear that they won't be shit

Soon enough they will start to believe it.

Reply to this post

Response to NWCorona (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:01 PM

guillaumeb (42,641 posts)

12. One of the results of systematic racism and extreme inequality.

Who could have imagined that 400 years of being treated as less than human could have had a bad result?

Reply to this post

Response to guillaumeb (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:26 PM

NobodyHere (2,810 posts)

29. Bull fucking shit

History did not make these deplorables torture anyone. They did it with their own free will.

Reply to this post

Response to NobodyHere (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 05:07 PM

guillaumeb (42,641 posts)

49. Are you a product of your environment?

Or were you unaffected by where you grew up and how you were treated?

Reply to this post

Response to guillaumeb (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 06:36 PM

NobodyHere (2,810 posts)

56. I know I have free will

I never tortured anyone and filmed it for Facebook

Reply to this post

Response to NobodyHere (Reply #56)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 06:37 PM

guillaumeb (42,641 posts)

57. That makes two of us.

And as I said upthread, nothing excuses what they did. But growing up in an environment where you are treated as worthless cannot help with socialization.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:06 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

14. Not sure that's true in this case

I checked out the girl's FB page--NOT to see the video, but to read the hateful comments left by RW creeps. From the pics, it looks like she lives in a college dorm. That doesn't say "no prospects" to me.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:09 PM

guillaumeb (42,641 posts)

16. Agreed. I posted a link to the Chicago Tribune story. eom

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:14 PM

NWCorona (8,541 posts)

18. That is even worse... Maybe it's a group home?

Reply to this post

Response to NWCorona (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:16 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

20. Could be

I didn't linger on her page. The hateful comments made me want to go and watch puppy videos.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:19 PM

NWCorona (8,541 posts)

22. I'm just sticking to news print. I will probably never watch the video

The description is enough for me.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 06:41 PM

xor (1,204 posts)

58. Maybe drugs?

I'm not talking about pot, but I've seen drugs like meth totally change people. Throw stuff like that into poverty and a sense of hopelessness, and you end up with a mess. You end up with people who don't care who end up raising people who don't care. So you have external and internal pressures that keep the whole thing going.

Reply to this post

Response to xor (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 08:00 PM

Warren DeMontague (80,708 posts)

62. There's a bottle of vodka visible in the video.

You want to talk about drugs that numb people and can make them unempathic assholes, booze is certainly on the list.

But when people are assholes, the ultimate blame resides with the people themselves AFAIAC- no matter what they're on.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 02:55 PM

underthematrix (5,811 posts)

3. Excuse me. A mentally disturbed vindictive idiot

will take office on Jan 20th. Those are the same people who watched it and did not call police.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 02:57 PM

hexola (4,835 posts)

4. Do you have a source claiming nobody called the police?

I haven't heard that, one way or another...

And we don't know how many friends she has...so who knows how many people, if any actually saw it.

Do these FB live streams automatically play? (I have auto play video disabled)

Reply to this post

Response to hexola (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:07 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

15. Well, if someone had called

he probably wouldn't have been held for at least 24 hours. (That 24 hours is taken from the CNN article.)

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 02:58 PM

NWCorona (8,541 posts)

6. There was another story about a guy abducted and tortured at a trap house

And there were tons of people who saw the guy tied up and they didn't say shit. Some people are heartless.

Reply to this post

Response to NWCorona (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:18 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

21. +1 nT

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Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 02:59 PM

WillowTree (5,325 posts)

7. Do we know that no one called the police?

Reply to this post

Response to WillowTree (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:00 PM

hexola (4,835 posts)

11. Sounds more like an assumption at this point...

I've only read about this - not sure it came up in the presser.

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Response to WillowTree (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 07:17 PM

scscholar (2,902 posts)

60. If someone called them and they decided to not act...

then that is even worse. I prefer to think that no one called them.

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Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:00 PM

sarisataka (16,470 posts)

9. According to a noticeable portion of DU

This either never really happened or it was staged. Since we like to think of ourselves as the people of higher standards, is it so hard to believe no one in the general public would bother to get involved

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:00 PM

guillaumeb (42,641 posts)

10. Here is a link from the Chicago Tribune

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-trump-cursed-man-attacked-facebook-video-20170104-story.html

Reply to this post

Response to guillaumeb (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:15 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

19. Technical question

I read the article, and it does say that the police found the FB video. Couldn't that have been traced to the location where it was uploaded, and found him sooner?

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:21 PM

guillaumeb (42,641 posts)

25. I am not the one to answer that type of question.

I am certain someone more technically adept can/will answer.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 07:10 PM

xor (1,204 posts)

59. From a technical perspective that's for sure possible.

It would require going through a couple organizations to piece it all together, though. They'd have to go through facebook and then to the provider of the connection (likely a cellular) If they have GPS data then it's pretty easy, but if not then I could see being a bit more difficult to get a precise location just relying on something like triangulation. Although if they were at location and using its wifi, then that would get rid of the precise location problem. I'm curious if anyone with direct experience can add some knowledge to this. Such as how easy it is to get this information from companies like facebook and various service providers.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:05 PM

Chernobyl (42 posts)

13. It's Facebook Live, it may have only been broadcast to a small group of friends any

followers of the suspect so it may not have been viewed by many people live. The video was later uploaded to social media like Youtube and that's when it went viral.

The cold hard truth is that most of the people watching live may have perfectly been fine with what they were seeing take place, they are after all friends with the suspect(s).

Reply to this post

Response to Chernobyl (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:09 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

17. Gotcha

I really don't understand all the social media possibilities. I'm just very glad it didn't exist when I was a teenager.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:19 PM

RandiFan1290 (6,195 posts)

23. Certain DUers seem more upset with this

than they were with the Dylann Roof shooting in South Carolina.

Illuminating

Reply to this post

Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:20 PM

philosslayer (3,076 posts)

24. I noticed the exact same thing.

Reply to this post

Response to philosslayer (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:24 PM

RandiFan1290 (6,195 posts)

27. You're not fooling anyone. nt

Reply to this post

Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 05:22 PM

RelativelyJones (898 posts)

51. +1

Reply to this post

Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:27 PM

sarisataka (16,470 posts)

31. Refresh my memory

When that shooting happened did anyone here deny it took place or claimed it was a false flag operation?

Or perhaps you can explain why people shouldn't be upset about this. And I don't give half a flying rat fuck what races are involved. Torture is evil.

Reply to this post

Response to sarisataka (Reply #31)

RandiFan1290 This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:28 PM

Chernobyl (42 posts)

32. Some of us weren't members of this forum when the SC Church shooting took place

but I bet there were quite a few less deniers claiming that Dylann Roof was part of some conspiracy and that the shooting was simply a political stunt.

Frankly, some of the comments I've seen here about this horrendous kidnapping and torture story have been downright depressing and hard to believe. Nobody here denies that Dylann Roof deserves double whatever this jury comes back with and then some.

Reply to this post

Response to Chernobyl (Reply #32)

RandiFan1290 This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:41 PM

heaven05 (18,124 posts)

40. of course

no surprise here....always has been this way....the victim was white....alleged perps black...Nat Turner syndrome is heavy sometimes.

Reply to this post

Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:48 PM

Ace Rothstein (2,862 posts)

42. Care to point any out?

I don't remember anyone not being upset by the Roof murders.

Reply to this post

Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 05:29 PM

Renew Deal (81,388 posts)

55. Certain DUers seem less upset with this

than they were with the Dylann Roof shooting in South Carolina.

Illuminating

Reply to this post

Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 09:40 PM

romanic (2,841 posts)

65. Kinda hurts

When you have to defend a narrative and pit horrible acts of violence against each other and try to see which one is more deserving of replies.

Shameful, absolutely shameful.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:22 PM

hexola (4,835 posts)

26. It was reported the perps were TEXTING the parents during the assult.

So - somebody was aware...at some point.

He was already reported missing...

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:25 PM

hexola (4,835 posts)

28. From the ChiTrib article above

He had been reported missing Monday by his parents who said he disappeared after they dropped him off at a McDonald's in Streamwood on Saturday, according to police. The man apparently met someone he considered a friend, and then got involved with a group of people who stole a van from Streamwood.

Streamwood police said the parents began getting text messages from someone "claiming to be holding him captive." As Streamwood officers investigated the texts, they "discovered Facebook video depicting (the man) being verbally and physically abused."

Streamwood investigators were soon contacted by Chicago police saying they had found the man who had been reported missing, police said. Soon after that, officers were called to a home in the 3300 block of West Lexington about 5:25 p.m. and found signs of a struggle and property damage that they linked to the attack, according to police.

Reply to this post

Response to hexola (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:28 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

35. Can't imagine what it was like for the parents

knowing their vulnerable child was being held, and wondering what he was going through.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:27 PM

NWCorona (8,541 posts)

30. The two women who were arrested are sisters. It just keeps getting worse

Reply to this post

Response to NWCorona (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:34 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

38. I feel sorry for their parents, too

They probably are better aware than their daughters what they've just brought down on themselves.

Now, their girls are probably going to prison for a significant portion of their youth, and the parents will incur thousands of dollars in legal expenses to defend them.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:46 PM

HoneyBadger (2,297 posts)

41. Don Lemon blamed bad home training

Which is a dog whistle that means parents. That video will come up every single time someone meets them for the rest of their lives.

Reply to this post

Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:52 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

44. Yup, for sure

It's much more likely a group mentality kind of thing. Read about that in relation to a Michigan case maybe 15 years ago, where a woman was assaulted and killed by a group of men after a fender-bender. Apparently, people feel less culpable if they are one of many, rather than individuals. Something like that.

Reply to this post

Response to NWCorona (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 04:27 PM

cwydro (51,308 posts)

47. Let them rot in jail.

This is inexcusable.

Reply to this post

Response to cwydro (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 04:55 PM

NWCorona (8,541 posts)

48. No excuses given. The bed has been made

Reply to this post

Response to NWCorona (Reply #48)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 05:13 PM

cwydro (51,308 posts)

50. Yes.

And that video will be around forever.

Reply to this post

Response to cwydro (Reply #50)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 05:26 PM

NWCorona (8,541 posts)

53. The ones I feel bad about are her kids and of course the victim and his family

This is why I tell my kids to be careful of who they trust. Friends aren't always friends.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:28 PM

JI7 (88,325 posts)

33. do we know how many people saw it ?

Reply to this post

Response to JI7 (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:30 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

36. No

someone explained to me that it may have been to just a very limited number of close, trusted friends, and that it didn't go viral til it was posted on you tube.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:38 PM

heaven05 (18,124 posts)

39. Well hate is all

the media has spread from the new fuhrer, steve bannon and their followers for the last 18months or so and being a racist is openly touted now as normal speech and behavior, so what can be expected? And I BET this shit hasn't even kicked off yet. So buckle up for a very bumpy ride for however long it lasts.

Reply to this post

Response to heaven05 (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:49 PM

MichMary (1,714 posts)

43. Please tell me you're not

trying to justify this?

You are right about the hatred and racism, but what did this poor young special needs person who apparently considered one the kidnappers a friend, do to deserve this?

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 04:03 PM

heaven05 (18,124 posts)

46. of course not, this kid DID NOT deserve this treatment

yet I stand by my belief that this type of outrage on both sides of the color line hasn't even kicked in yet. Jan 20th will be the second shot of this countries 2nd Civil War. The first was the election of an openly racist, sexist con man as POTUS. That's the disgrace. The outrage.

These young people were wrong and will get what's coming to them and won't be no burger king for them or year long trials.

Reply to this post

Response to heaven05 (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 05:27 PM

Jake Stern (3,143 posts)

54. Other than them saying "Fuck Trump", Trump and Bannon have NOTHING to do with this.

These four are monsters all on their own.

Reply to this post

Response to Jake Stern (Reply #54)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 09:14 PM

heaven05 (18,124 posts)

64. believe what you must

to stay in your comfortable place. Trump and bannon will be responsible for a hell of a lot more than this tragedy. These four should face prison time. This kid with disabilities deserved none of this. That said, buckle up for a rough ride next 4-four years. Trump and bannon will be responsible for EVERYTHING that happens. AmeriKKKans voted for hate and misery. They will receive what they wish for.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 03:54 PM

cwydro (51,308 posts)

45. Yup.

Welcome to america

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 05:23 PM

Warpy (109,011 posts)

52. You don't know that. This is a developing story

and other information will slowly come out.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 07:26 PM

WillowTree (5,325 posts)

61. It occurs to me that even if someone did report it immediately / while it was happening.....

.......it would have taken the police time to figure out who it was and where it was happening for them to do something about it. We can't really know for sure, but I really doubt that the CPD dropped the ball on this. It's just too gruesome.

Reply to this post

Response to MichMary (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 08:01 PM

Warren DeMontague (80,708 posts)

63. Some people suck.

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