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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Tue May 16, 2017, 12:30 PM May 2017

Family demands answers after police restrain special needs boy at school

DeSoto, Texas -- A family is outraged at police for placing their 7-year-old son in handcuffs at a mental health facility in Texas, CBS Dallas-Fort Worth reports.

April Obin says her son has attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), and tends to disrupt class at Gabe P. Allen Elementary School several times a week. But he has trained counselors that help him cope with the mood disorder.

On May 9, Obin says her son had an episode that turned violent and he began to bang his head against the wall.

Obin's attorney, Amar Dhillon, says the school was having standardized testing that day. The boy's counselor wasn't available, so they called his mother in for assistance.

"Before she could get to the school, the DISD police department was called," Dhillon said. "[They] handcuffed the child and took him away."

more

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-handcuff-special-needs-boy-texas-school/

51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Family demands answers after police restrain special needs boy at school (Original Post) n2doc May 2017 OP
The kid was violent and banging his head. What does the mother expect? Doodley May 2017 #1
She expects what he is entitled to. missingthebigdog May 2017 #2
having a disability is not a crime loveandlight May 2017 #3
And if he was a danger to other children, to the adult supervisors or to himself? Doodley May 2017 #6
Same answer missingthebigdog May 2017 #10
If the police can't restrain a seven-year-old kid, then God help us all. Doodley May 2017 #14
I don't think the question is "is restraint possible?". LanternWaste May 2017 #17
Okay. You tell me. What form of restraint do you think is appropriate? Doodley May 2017 #20
I've never heard, in 17 years of dealing with classroom Ilsa May 2017 #18
I was talking about a lawsuit from the family, not against the family. Doodley May 2017 #19
My autistic child has had to be restrained in school. Ilsa May 2017 #23
In our clinic (pediatric physical, speech, and occupational therapies) phylny May 2017 #27
There is a difference between training and real life events. Ask Chesley Sullenberger. Doodley May 2017 #36
Practice, practice, practice and no handcuffs for children. n/t phylny May 2017 #46
I am not trained in restraint.. cannabis_flower May 2017 #30
Good video, and sure that will work sometimes, but those kids weren't being violent. Doodley May 2017 #35
Well to start off with hardluck May 2017 #4
If it was true he was banging his own head, he needed to be restrained if talking Doodley May 2017 #5
Restrained yes, hardluck May 2017 #7
I agree with you. Doodley May 2017 #9
Perhaps, but not by law enforcement missingthebigdog May 2017 #8
Hands cuffed behind his back would mean the police could handle him without him kicking, Doodley May 2017 #11
A basket hold would accomplish the same thing missingthebigdog May 2017 #12
A big basket isn't always available when you need one. You are the teacher and a Doodley May 2017 #13
A basket hold does not involve a basket. missingthebigdog May 2017 #24
You just showed your ignorance on this topic. Ilsa May 2017 #25
Well said. Thank you Ilsa. Doodley May 2017 #34
Sorry if I got preachy. Ilsa May 2017 #41
You keep preaching! missingthebigdog May 2017 #42
Not handcuffs malaise May 2017 #22
When you call law enforcement you get a law enforcement response Lee-Lee May 2017 #29
Schools are too afraid of the frivolous lawsuit industry to do that. Oneironaut May 2017 #38
If they can't do the job they shouldn't be teaching or running a school Lee-Lee May 2017 #49
He's a 7 year old child. Aren't you special. Hekate May 2017 #43
Teachers and school administrators need to start doing their damm jobs and quit calling the police Lee-Lee May 2017 #15
What would you do? Doodley May 2017 #21
Do you really see those two scenarios as equivalent?? missingthebigdog May 2017 #26
You wrote: Doodley May 2017 #32
This is bordering on ridiculous. missingthebigdog May 2017 #39
My child died from a gunshot. All I am saying is police should be last resort, but Doodley May 2017 #45
I am sorry for your loss. missingthebigdog May 2017 #47
Do you really think a child banging his head and a child with a gun are equivalent? Lee-Lee May 2017 #28
No need to be abusive. Parent arrived too late. Maybe mental health pro was on lunch break. You make Doodley May 2017 #31
Ohh, well if the right person is on lunch don't dare interrupt that Lee-Lee May 2017 #33
He could have brain hemorrhaging. It isn't only a "mental health issue." It is an emergency. Doodley May 2017 #37
How are the police helpful for a brain hemorrhage? missingthebigdog May 2017 #40
Prevention is the key. If the staff cannot cope, mother unavailable, who are they going to call? Doodley May 2017 #44
Ambulance? missingthebigdog May 2017 #48
It's a 7 year old child. Not a criminal. Lee-Lee May 2017 #50
Inclusion does have a downside dembotoz May 2017 #16
I do not know the child's... Mike Nelson May 2017 #51

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
2. She expects what he is entitled to.
Tue May 16, 2017, 12:50 PM
May 2017

For his support personnel to be available to handle his special needs, or, in the alternative, for medical personnel to be called to intervene.

Law enforcement is not the appropriate intervention in cases like this. He wasn't committing a crime; he has a disability.

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
10. Same answer
Tue May 16, 2017, 01:33 PM
May 2017

This occurred at a facility that is supposed to be equipped to handle the needs of this child. I would hope that the caretakers there would at least have the wisdom to remove other children from the vicinity.

What training or experience do you believe the police have to intervene in this type of situation that the "professionals" do not possess?

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
14. If the police can't restrain a seven-year-old kid, then God help us all.
Tue May 16, 2017, 01:53 PM
May 2017

A kid that is being violent or self-harming needs to be stopped. Why should a caretaker have to endure kicks or scratches or punches? Because if the caretaker tries to defend himself or herself, then we have a lawsuit right there.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
17. I don't think the question is "is restraint possible?".
Tue May 16, 2017, 02:04 PM
May 2017

I don't think the question is "is restraint possible?". That would be reductive and simplistic, forming its own narrative for whatever reasons you do so.

I do however, think the question is "what mechanism and form of restraint is appropriate for a mere seven year old?" A relevant nuance you seem to all but ignore.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
18. I've never heard, in 17 years of dealing with classroom
Tue May 16, 2017, 02:08 PM
May 2017

Aides for special needs children, that any one of them has ever filed suit against the family of a young student.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
23. My autistic child has had to be restrained in school.
Tue May 16, 2017, 02:58 PM
May 2017

Both as a child and as an older teenager. School personnel, including school safety officers, have been trained in tproper ans safe use of restraints, and I've never seen where handcuffs, especially on a 7 year old, are necessary.

phylny

(8,352 posts)
27. In our clinic (pediatric physical, speech, and occupational therapies)
Tue May 16, 2017, 03:20 PM
May 2017

we have undergone training on how to respond to violent attacks and how to keep the child safe while doing so. No where in our training is "call the police" involved. There are ways to defend yourself while not harming the child or even touching the child.

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
36. There is a difference between training and real life events. Ask Chesley Sullenberger.
Tue May 16, 2017, 05:19 PM
May 2017

We can all be armchair critics, but none of us were there.

cannabis_flower

(3,764 posts)
30. I am not trained in restraint..
Tue May 16, 2017, 04:15 PM
May 2017

But I've had a 7 year old. On occasion when she was younger she threw a fit and I had to deal with her (not often).

Here's a video of what you do:



Here's another with a smaller child:



hardluck

(634 posts)
4. Well to start off with
Tue May 16, 2017, 01:00 PM
May 2017

The mother probably doesn't expect her 7 year old special needs son to be beaten with batons and tasered (if the family's lawyer's statements are taken at face value - too early to tell if its true but ymmv)

Dhillon has made serious accusations against district police, saying officers used excessive force on the child by causing bruising on the boy's legs as a result of beating him with a baton. The family's lawyer also claims police used a Taser during the encounter.


I wouldn't be especially pleased if my son (who is a little older and on the autism spectrum) was treated like that.

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
11. Hands cuffed behind his back would mean the police could handle him without him kicking,
Tue May 16, 2017, 01:33 PM
May 2017

biting, scratching, etc.

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
12. A basket hold would accomplish the same thing
Tue May 16, 2017, 01:39 PM
May 2017

Or any number of the other holds that people who work in mental health settings are trained to utilize in this kind of situation.

It was not appropriate to call law enforcement on a seven year old with a disability. There is simply no justification for that.

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
13. A big basket isn't always available when you need one. You are the teacher and a
Tue May 16, 2017, 01:48 PM
May 2017

child becomes violent. Please talk me through what you would do, because it isn't easy. I don't buy the argument that he is "disabled" and therefore he has to be treated differently. The first duty is the safety and wellbeing of the children and of the staff, not just one child. If that is threatened then decisive action should be taken. Calling the police isn't the ideal solution, but it isn't difficult to imagine a situation in which that becomes necessary to avoid injury to the child or others.

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
24. A basket hold does not involve a basket.
Tue May 16, 2017, 03:06 PM
May 2017
I don't buy the argument that he is "disabled" and therefore he has to be treated differently.

Why is disabled in quotes?? And what don't you buy about the argument that a child with a disability has to be treated differently?

We aren't dealing with an imaginary situation. We are dealing with a situation in which a seven year old with a disability needed intervention. In a mental health facility.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
25. You just showed your ignorance on this topic.
Tue May 16, 2017, 03:17 PM
May 2017

There are no baskets in a basket hold.

There are difference types of holds available to restrain children. Training is necessary to avoid hurting the child. The first step is putting space between the child and other children. Sometimes the other children are removed, sometimes the child is removed to a dimly lit, quiet room to calm down. At that point, the reason for a hold is to prevent self-injurious behaviors. Some of these children have medication available for PRN dosing at the school for these events.

And you don't get to decide which of these children are disabled. That is a matter for diagnosticians, behavior specialusts, psychiatrists, etc. It is also possible to have ADHD and be disabled in the classroom. This allows a child to get an Individualized education plan that is designed for their learning, speech, and social disabilities.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
41. Sorry if I got preachy.
Tue May 16, 2017, 06:11 PM
May 2017

We've been living with severe autism 19 years. And ADHD for 15. I'm familiar with both high functioning and low functioning, good times and bad, and the bad can be pretty damn horrible. Therefore, I know how school professionals should react. 99+% of the time they are wonderful. When they are not, parents need to intervene not just for their child, but for every child that could be mistreated by that specific person/school/teacher/LEO.

Likewise, I'm well-acquainted with IDEA and how it has given good lives to kids who, in my school days, would have been institutionalized or would have dropped out of high school because they were labeled problem children because they couldn't sit still and couldn't learn because of their ADHD.

This is our lives, and it's the lives of 1/50 boys, 1/67 children who are on the autism spectrum (developmentally delayed), some of which have Down Syndrome or other observable physical, genetic defects. Our children's diagnoses impact every aspect of our lives, our planning, our entertainment, our families, our marriages, friendships, faith, everything.

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
42. You keep preaching!
Tue May 16, 2017, 06:23 PM
May 2017

I am the proud, but exhausted, parent of three young adults who are on the autism spectrum. Over the last two decades we have seen it all- the good, the bad, and, unfortunately, the ugly. At times, really ugly.

It is a shame that those of us who have the fewest resources available to do so are the ones who are tasked with advocating for people with special needs, but that is the reality.

What went on here is shameful and heartbreaking. That child has been taught that he cannot trust the adults that are supposed to be caring for him, and to fear law enforcement. It is painful to think about possible outcomes of future interactions with the police....

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
29. When you call law enforcement you get a law enforcement response
Tue May 16, 2017, 03:44 PM
May 2017

The proper response is when there is not any violation of the law or criminal justice issue at play to not call law enforcement.

It was purely a mental health issue. In that case you call the properly trained people- school counselors, aides, etc.

If the school doesn't have people trained then that's their failure.

Would you call your auto mechanic when your home catches fire?

Would you call a chef when your arm is broken?

Would you call a lawyer when you need advice on designing a home?

Of course not. Calling law enforcement to deal with a mental health episode of a 7 year old child is just as absurd. Except that the others will tell you it's not their job, the cops have to show up and do their best to fix the mess the teachers and administrators refuse to handle using the limited tools, options and training available on handling something that isn't even their job.

Oneironaut

(5,461 posts)
38. Schools are too afraid of the frivolous lawsuit industry to do that.
Tue May 16, 2017, 06:01 PM
May 2017

It would make the most sense, but this is the world we live in. The cops are now the enforcers in schools.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
49. If they can't do the job they shouldn't be teaching or running a school
Wed May 17, 2017, 06:26 AM
May 2017

At the core it is that simple.

Dealing with that child is 100% the schools job and responsibility.

Dealing with a child in the midst of a mental health emergency who is banging his head but not harming others is 0% a law enforcement issue.

Everyone involved in the decision to call the police over that should be removed from any further position in education because they clearly don't have what it takes to do the job.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
15. Teachers and school administrators need to start doing their damm jobs and quit calling the police
Tue May 16, 2017, 01:54 PM
May 2017

Last edited Tue May 16, 2017, 03:33 PM - Edit history (1)

A child banging his head is in no way, shape or form a criminal justice issue. Not at all. So there is no reason to call Le enforcement.

There is no level of action that a 7 year old in a classroom can do that warrants even thinking about calling the police short of assaulting a classmate to the point of real physical harm or being a credible danger of that.

But teachers and administrators are ever more lazy and incompetent to handle classroom issues to the point that they wait until problems are a huge mess and then call the police because they refuse to do the job they are paid for.

Kid banging his head? Call the police! Teen won't put away her cell phone? Call the police! Kid made a clock? Call the police!

It's a downright negligent way to run a classroom and school.

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
21. What would you do?
Tue May 16, 2017, 02:55 PM
May 2017

A seven year old is banging his head and being violent. What are YOU going to do? A seven year old brings a gun into school and a classmate is shot. What are you going to do?

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
26. Do you really see those two scenarios as equivalent??
Tue May 16, 2017, 03:19 PM
May 2017

I feel like you need to take a step back and work on your perspective.

In answer to your question, though, when a child is banging his head and being violent:
I am going to see that any other children are removed from the vicinity.
I am going to let whoever the building administrators are know what the situation is.
I am going to dim the lights and speak softly to the child.
If I can do so safely, I am going to restrain him with a hold that I have been taught.
If it is unsafe to approach him, I am going to make his physical environment as safe as possible until help arrives.

It is highly unlikely that this was the first time that this child had a meltdown. I am sure that there is a plan in place for this scenario. Based upon the context clues in the article, and my experience with school districts, it is likely that the support personnel assigned to this child were reassigned to assist with the standardized testing. The child probably gave several indications that he was unraveling before this erupted into full on tantrum. The school/facility chose to put this child in this situation, then traumatized him further by their actions.

What if it were your child? Would you want the police called?

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
32. You wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017, 05:07 PM
May 2017

"If it is unsafe to approach him, I am going to make his physical environment as safe as possible until help arrives."

What are you going to do? Remove every chair, window, pencil, electrical outlet, ruler, stapler, etc? He was banging his head. Are you going to put padding on the walls? Are you going to just wait until "help arrives" or are you going to treat this situation with a sense of urgency?

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
39. This is bordering on ridiculous.
Tue May 16, 2017, 06:04 PM
May 2017

Your responses are a bit inconsistent. What part of Ilsa's post above (25) were you in agreement with???

How is calling the police treating this situation with a sense of urgency? What are you doing until the police arrive?

You seem intent to shoot down every intervention offered in this thread. You have offered no ideas of your own, other than, apparently, law enforcement and handcuffs.

This kind of mindset is what keeps those of us who have family members with special needs awake at night. People with disabilities are people. They deserve to be treated with respect, and deserve the appropriate interventions. This child's behavior was a result of his illness. If he had been having a seizure instead would calling the police still be the right move?

I ask you again, what if it were your child?

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
45. My child died from a gunshot. All I am saying is police should be last resort, but
Tue May 16, 2017, 06:39 PM
May 2017

as none of us were there, it is wrong of those who attacked the employees. I agree with all Ilsa wrote.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
28. Do you really think a child banging his head and a child with a gun are equivalent?
Tue May 16, 2017, 03:31 PM
May 2017

If you do, your mentality is exactly part of the problem.

The child banging his head is in no way, shape or form a criminal justice issue. It's not a violation of the law. It's a mental health issue.

In that case you call the mental health professionals, school counselers who should be trained for this, the parents and you deal with it in accordance with procedures and training.

The child with a gun is a criminal act and a danger of public safety, and that is where calling the police is fully warranted.

People who can't tell the difference have no place being trusted anywhere in the education system, but sadly common sense seems to have escaped the schools these days.

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
31. No need to be abusive. Parent arrived too late. Maybe mental health pro was on lunch break. You make
Tue May 16, 2017, 05:04 PM
May 2017

it all sound so very easy.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
33. Ohh, well if the right person is on lunch don't dare interrupt that
Tue May 16, 2017, 05:08 PM
May 2017

Let's call the police instead for a matter that is not even remotely a law enforcement issue because doing the right thing is hard.

No excuse for calling law enforcement for a mental health issue like a 7 year old banging his head.

No excuse.

It's negligence on the part of all involved.

If the child was suffering an allergic reaction and they called the school janitor instead of the school nurse with an Epi-pen would you defend it? Because they did essentially the same thing, they called law enforcement for a health care issue.

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
37. He could have brain hemorrhaging. It isn't only a "mental health issue." It is an emergency.
Tue May 16, 2017, 05:23 PM
May 2017

So easy to attack the school without actually being there.

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
48. Ambulance?
Tue May 16, 2017, 07:08 PM
May 2017

If it were my child, I would hope they would call someone with medication and proper training.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
50. It's a 7 year old child. Not a criminal.
Wed May 17, 2017, 06:37 AM
May 2017

Dealing with. 7 year old children is 100% the job of the staff of an elementary school.

When that child has not broken the law and is only having a mental health episode it is still 100% the responsibility of the school and the people who work there who are paid to, you know, deal with children.

A 7 year old having a mental health crisis is 0.00% a law enforcement issue. Doesn't matter if it is in school, at home, in the playground. Not a law enforcement issue.

If the staff can't cope then they are clearly not competent to handle the job and new people need to be put into those positions.

It's not like this is a rare thing. Teachers and admins have moved to calling the police for every situation they don't want to deal with when it's not a law enforcement issue. From this story to the kid who made a damm clock the teachers and administrators have across the nation either become to incompetent, lazy or scared to do their damm jobs and now want to pass off all the hard parts they are paid to handle to someone else, leaving cops who are trained and paid to deal with criminals and criminal offenders to come in and deal with classroom misbehavior.

And no, I didn't have to be there to judge. As someone who has worked in law enforcement there is absolutely no justification for calling the police. None. It's a 7 year old child, I am certain that the staff there was more than capable of restraining him had they bothered to try.

As I said above if your house was on fire would you call the fire department or an auto mechanic? Calling the cops for a 7 year old child's mental health treatment and intervention is as stupid as calling a mechanic whenever your home catches fire.

dembotoz

(16,734 posts)
16. Inclusion does have a downside
Tue May 16, 2017, 02:02 PM
May 2017

And that is the expectation that staff is all on the same page with some semblance of training as to how to handle that population

Mike Nelson

(9,903 posts)
51. I do not know the child's...
Wed May 17, 2017, 07:04 AM
May 2017

...diagnosis, but am familiar with the behavior. Educators and police must restrain to save a people from harming themselves or others... it's the law. However, handcuffs does not seem, to me, a good solution. I assume, from the parent reaction, it was not part of a documented behavior plan. They need to stop arguing and agree on a plan to help the child.

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