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What if Donald fires Mueller? (Original Post) SHRED May 2017 OP
I just heard on MSNBC that he cannot? BigDemVoter May 2017 #1
he cannot fire him directly, but he can direct the ag to fire him. unblock May 2017 #6
Minor point forgotmylogin May 2017 #12
true. minor point, as you say. unblock May 2017 #17
Heard both things today, elleng May 2017 #8
He can't. Mme. Defarge May 2017 #2
He will if he has to in order to protect himself. kentuck May 2017 #3
No, but Hayduke Bomgarte May 2017 #19
This Egnever May 2017 #20
He can't fire hm directly. He would have to order Rosenstein to fire him...then Watergate deja vu brush May 2017 #27
I read where that really isn't possible. The_Casual_Observer May 2017 #4
Nixon fired Cox flyingfysh May 2017 #5
Then I imagine congress fully engages Renew Deal May 2017 #7
Then We the People engage CONGRESS! elleng May 2017 #9
Naming Robert Mueller as special counsel isn't enough - because Trump can get rid of him dalton99a May 2017 #10
Congress must appoint a special prosecutor. yardwork May 2017 #25
I thought Sessions was not told until just after the order was signed. reflection May 2017 #34
I hadn't heard that, but let's think about that. yardwork May 2017 #35
true..you never know what the orange one will do but.... chillfactor May 2017 #11
We have a Million Meet-Up in Los Angeles, NYC, and Washington DC Hekate May 2017 #13
The report will be referred to the house, they will promptly yawn because IOKIYAR and do nothing. onecaliberal May 2017 #14
What does IOKIYAR mean? burrowowl May 2017 #15
It's Okay If You're A Republican. (n/t) Iggo May 2017 #16
It's OK If You Are Republican onecaliberal May 2017 #18
+1 uponit7771 May 2017 #22
Not if, but when. denbot May 2017 #21
He can indirectly, but the trade-off is that he just sacrificed the 2018 elections. no_hypocrisy May 2017 #23
If it's in his own worst interest, we can count on The Donald to do it. spiderpig May 2017 #24
He probably will, eventually. In the meantime, the pressure eases on Congress. yardwork May 2017 #26
As President, Trump Has the Authority to Fire Mueller dlk May 2017 #28
I'm more broadly concerned about his pardon power than his firing power metalbot May 2017 #29
Why would Drumpf fire Mueller? True Dough May 2017 #30
He was given civil service protections so it would be protracted process. Historic NY May 2017 #31
If Trump tries to do that, it will appear the same as if MineralMan May 2017 #32
Maybe I'm still a little naive, reflection May 2017 #33

unblock

(51,974 posts)
6. he cannot fire him directly, but he can direct the ag to fire him.
Thu May 18, 2017, 12:30 AM
May 2017

and if need be, keep firing ag's until he finds one who will do his bidding.

this is exactly what nixon did in the "saturday night massacre". it did not go over well.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
17. true. minor point, as you say.
Thu May 18, 2017, 01:20 AM
May 2017

not much difference between refusing to do something like that and getting fired vs. resigning.

given that nixon had to reach to a third person (remember our old friend bork? yes, that bork!) it's clear jobs were ending one way or another until nixon got rid of the special prosecutor.

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
3. He will if he has to in order to protect himself.
Thu May 18, 2017, 12:28 AM
May 2017

Yes, and there is no guarantee that Mitch McConnell and the Repubs will do what is right.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
20. This
Thu May 18, 2017, 02:25 AM
May 2017

congress would lose it's mind though if it happened. Mueller is well respected on both sides of the isle.

brush

(53,471 posts)
27. He can't fire hm directly. He would have to order Rosenstein to fire him...then Watergate deja vu
Thu May 18, 2017, 07:44 AM
May 2017

Hopefully Rosenstein would have the principles to refuse, and maybe the next guy after that would also, as happened with Watergate.

Then even the most reluctant repugs would know trump would have to go, as what happened with Nixon.

dalton99a

(81,065 posts)
10. Naming Robert Mueller as special counsel isn't enough - because Trump can get rid of him
Thu May 18, 2017, 12:33 AM
May 2017
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-chemerinsky-freedman-special-prosecutor-20170518-story.html

Naming Robert Mueller as special counsel isn't enough — because Trump can get rid of him
By Erwin Chemerinsky and Eric M. Freedman

There is now credible evidence that President Trump pressed then-FBI Director James B. Comey to end the investigation of Michael Flynn, the administration’s first national security advisor. If true, Trump could be guilty of obstruction of justice. But there is no mechanism in place to ensure a truly independent inquiry of this or other possibly illegal actions by high-level Trump officials.

Congress should therefore renew the independent counsel statute providing for the appointment of a special prosecutor, one who cannot be fired by the president or the attorney general.

On Wednesday, Deputy Atty. Gen. Rod Rosenstein announced he was appointing former FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III as special prosecutor to take over the Justice Department investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 election. Without the protection of the independent counsel law, however, Trump can order Rosenstein to fire Mueller, and fire Rosenstein if he refuses.

yardwork

(61,417 posts)
25. Congress must appoint a special prosecutor.
Thu May 18, 2017, 07:21 AM
May 2017

It looks like the Republicans cooked up this scheme for Sessions to hire Mueller in order to take the pressure off.

It's not enough.

reflection

(6,286 posts)
34. I thought Sessions was not told until just after the order was signed.
Thu May 18, 2017, 09:35 AM
May 2017

That's what CNN was reporting last night. They didn't want him interfering or giving advance notice so Agent Orange could fire Rosenstein before the order was signed.

yardwork

(61,417 posts)
35. I hadn't heard that, but let's think about that.
Thu May 18, 2017, 12:30 PM
May 2017

If it's true, it means that Republicans in charge of Congress distrust the Attorney General (a Republican who was until very recently a U.S. senator) so much, they hid plans for a special counsel from him. The Attorney General of the U.S. was not allowed to know that a special counsel was being appointed by his office because his own party feared that he would interfere in a criminal investigation.

And that's the official story? Ok.....

chillfactor

(7,566 posts)
11. true..you never know what the orange one will do but....
Thu May 18, 2017, 12:42 AM
May 2017

the orange one can only direct the acting ag to fire Mueller....if the ag refuses the orange one can fire him....the whole thing would blow up in the orange one's face but he is too damn stupid to know that.

denbot

(9,894 posts)
21. Not if, but when.
Thu May 18, 2017, 05:16 AM
May 2017

The Donald will try or say something spectacularly stupid as Mueller closes in. Then he fires Mueller.

no_hypocrisy

(45,772 posts)
23. He can indirectly, but the trade-off is that he just sacrificed the 2018 elections.
Thu May 18, 2017, 06:38 AM
May 2017

Democratic majority in both houses. All he'll be able to keep is being a figurehead in the WH until 2021.

spiderpig

(10,419 posts)
24. If it's in his own worst interest, we can count on The Donald to do it.
Thu May 18, 2017, 07:02 AM
May 2017

Ego over all.

Part of me secretly hopes he's dumb enough to do it. Well, we know he's dumb enough.

yardwork

(61,417 posts)
26. He probably will, eventually. In the meantime, the pressure eases on Congress.
Thu May 18, 2017, 07:25 AM
May 2017

Congress's goal is to dismantle as much as possible as quickly as possible before team Trump implodes. They know they don't have four years. They need to get the tax cuts completed before 2018 or they're toast.

Getting Sessions to appoint Mueller buys time.

dlk

(11,433 posts)
28. As President, Trump Has the Authority to Fire Mueller
Thu May 18, 2017, 07:54 AM
May 2017

Given his current level of support, if Trump were to fire Mueller, he could very well get away with it. He has the authority and it would most likely be the end of our government.

metalbot

(1,058 posts)
29. I'm more broadly concerned about his pardon power than his firing power
Thu May 18, 2017, 08:00 AM
May 2017

If he was willing to pressure the FBI to not investigate Flynn, it seems a pretty small step to a pardon. A couple more pardons for Stone and Manafort, and he's plugged most of his leaks. He'd never get re-elected after that, but I can't imagine that Trump wants to do this for 8 years anyway...

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
32. If Trump tries to do that, it will appear the same as if
Thu May 18, 2017, 09:28 AM
May 2017

he confessed to everything. Now, there is no way to overestimate Trump's stupidity, but perhaps someone will advise him not to attempt such a thing. The more likely result, in time, will be Trump's resignation and an immediate pardon by Pence. That won't help all of those others who colluded with the Russians, but it would give Trump some shelter.

reflection

(6,286 posts)
33. Maybe I'm still a little naive,
Thu May 18, 2017, 09:32 AM
May 2017

but I think if he did that, he will have crossed the Rubicon, even with some Republicans, and would be promptly impeached. Who knows. A man can dream.

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