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Sun May 21, 2017, 12:58 AM

Want to read something sad? And at the same time infuriating?

In Saudi Arabia, a lot of people are fascinated by Ivanka Trump. Especially the women, because some of them see themselves in her...

Because

****“Ivanka Trump is an aspirational icon for many Saudi women: traditional wife and mother of three, balancing not just a career but also a family business many women here relate to because the only way for them to get ahead was to rely on a support network, chiefly their fathers.


In Saudi Arabia, the culture is stacked against you to become a successful woman with a long career. A lot of these women have successful fathers who mentor them, give them jobs in their businesses,” said Muna AbuSulayman, host of the popular Saudi talk show “Softly Speaking.” “There’s a lot of similarities between her and successful women in Saudi Arabia.”

The kingdom has women in leadership roles at the stock exchange, banks, newspapers and ministries. Most come from powerful families that helped them flourish. AbuSulayman said many here see Ivanka Trump working with her father in the White House as chipping in, “providing support.”

“She’s like us,” AbuSulayman said." ****


So "Abu Ivanka" is a role model to them. Not women who have made it on their own - because that isn't an experience they can relate to - because the women in S.A. need a powerful male relative to allow them the opportunity to achieve a measure of success.

They are excited. I'm sickened.

Ivanka Trump is probably flattered. Probably thinks she is empowering women.

It's sad and infuriating all at the same time.















21 replies, 5025 views

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Want to read something sad? And at the same time infuriating? (Original post)
Solly Mack May 2017 OP
applegrove May 2017 #1
Solly Mack May 2017 #2
applegrove May 2017 #3
LineReply :
onecaliberal May 2017 #4
Lotusflower70 May 2017 #5
Solly Mack May 2017 #8
PoindexterOglethorpe May 2017 #6
Solly Mack May 2017 #11
PoindexterOglethorpe May 2017 #17
Solly Mack May 2017 #18
Cha May 2017 #7
Solly Mack May 2017 #9
applegrove May 2017 #12
Cha May 2017 #14
brer cat May 2017 #20
JI7 May 2017 #10
Solly Mack May 2017 #13
JI7 May 2017 #15
Solly Mack May 2017 #19
Demonaut May 2017 #16
Tanuki May 2017 #21

Response to Solly Mack (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 01:01 AM

1. GOP wants to build a permanent overclass in the USA. I'm not surprised.

wealthy saudi women see Ivanka as some sort of affirmation. Keep the poor busy fighting amongst themselves with religion. Nobody will notice the USA is no longer a democracy in practice and more like a Saudi Arabia.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #1)

Sun May 21, 2017, 01:03 AM

2. Not just religion. You're right - a lot of people won't notice.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #2)

Sun May 21, 2017, 01:06 AM

3. Oh yes. Anything that will make regular people retreat into their respective

small tribes and hate each other.

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Response to Solly Mack (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 01:18 AM

4. :

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Response to Solly Mack (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 01:19 AM

5. Not surprising

That's their normal. They relate to what is familiar to them. It is however not my normal or familiar.

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Reply #5)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:04 AM

8. I don't find it surprising.

Not for the connected, primarily the royal family and its many branches.

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Response to Solly Mack (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 01:43 AM

6. And those women also have the support systems:

nannies, housekeepers, gardeners, whatever, that Ivanka and Jared likewise rely on. They are NOT like most of us who juggle child care, grocery shopping, home maintenance, and a job with little flexibility.

The world of the working and middle class is so incredibly different from the world of those like Ivanka and Jared Kushner, and those women in Saudi Arabia, that we may as well be different species.

If you are the one who manages every aspect of your family's life: doctor and dentist appointments, chauffering to soccer games and the school play, ALL of the grocery shopping, figuring out who will stay home to let the furnace repair guy in, buying a new washer when the old one totally dies and making sure someone is there when it is delivered, scheduling the parent/teacher conferences so that at least one of you can be there, negotiating who gets to go home when one of the kids has to be sent home sick from school, and all sorts of similar issues.

I had the enormous good fortune to be a stay at home mom myself. So I was available for most of those things mentioned above. But I was always aware that most of the moms I knew didn't have that luxury, and had to go through all sorts of contortions to arrange such things. Plus, of course, if you worked until 5pm and there was a soccer game right after school at 3:30, you might not be able to make it to watch your kid play.

Our culture is singularly hostile to working parents. Or maybe I should say it's hostile to a person having children, or even any sort of life outside of work. Too many jobs demand that the worker be available 24/7, which is appalling, in my opinion, even if the said worker is single with no kids or other responsibilities. Where's the balance? Where's the sense that we work to live, not that we live to work?

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #6)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:08 AM

11. It's a different world. That's true of the truly wealthy in this country - but for her, of all women

to be seen as aspirational....is sickening.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #11)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:38 AM

17. Yep. She simply has not a clue

what it is like for most working women. She never has to scramble to fix dinner for her husband and kids after a long day at work. She's not trying desperately to pick up the toys, to do laundry late at night or very early in the morning so everyone will have something clean to wear. She's not trying to recall if she agreed to bring cookies to school for the 4th grade Valentine's party, and does she have time to swing by the grocery store to buy some. She's not hoping she'll have a chance to swing by ToysRUs to grab a gift to bring to the birthday party her eleven year old has been invited to.

In short, she has a luxury of time that the average working person does not have. Period. Heck, even a stay at home mom (as I was) has more things to juggle than a woman like Ivanka. And I had it relatively good, but I still was responsible all by myself for all sorts of things that she gets to delegate. And has no clue that most women do not to delegate them.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #17)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:15 AM

18. Well said.

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Response to Solly Mack (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:04 AM

7. Wonder what they think of Michelle Obama

whose heart is true and really wants to empower Women.. and Hillary Clinton?

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Response to Cha (Reply #7)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:06 AM

9. I wondered the same thing.

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Response to Cha (Reply #7)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:10 AM

12. And who is a posterchild for having a great marriage based on equality.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #12)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:19 AM

14. Definitely!

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Response to Cha (Reply #7)

Sun May 21, 2017, 11:38 AM

20. If they see Ivanka as a role model,

then they probably view Michelle and Hillary as quaint, even implausible. Their worldview is framed by wealth, a powerful family, and a society where both are necessary for a woman to have a career. The girls and women that Michelle and Hillary try to empower are the antithesis of these women. To these Saudi women and Ivanka, anyone below the 1% is alien, totally beyond their understanding or even their interest.

I agree with Solly. This is both sad and infuriating.

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Response to Solly Mack (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:07 AM

10. another thing is that they mainly see her as supporting her father

so it's not even a case of someone who had privilege and took advantage of it to do something on their own.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #10)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:11 AM

13. Thank you! I noted that too. She's supportive - like they are - not defined as accomplished

in their own right...it's all a reflection of some man. Usually, their father.



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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #13)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:23 AM

15. and this also means they don't consider the rights of women as an issue in itself

and in fact they see supporting and defending anti women men like trump as the right thing for them to do .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #15)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:15 AM

19. Exactly

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Response to Solly Mack (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 02:36 AM

16. I agree, a symbol without substance

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Response to Solly Mack (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 11:56 AM

21. In contrast, several years ago I read about how popular Oprah Winfrey

was in Saudi Arabia. You could hardly find two more different women to admire, as Oprah is a self-made success, rose from a background of poverty and abuse, and worked smarter and harder to achieve her success.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/world/middleeast/19oprah.html
...."When “The Oprah Winfrey Show” was first broadcast in Saudi Arabia in November 2004 on a Dubai-based satellite channel, it became an immediate sensation among young Saudi women. Within months, it had become the highest-rated English-language program among women 25 and younger, an age group that makes up about a third of Saudi Arabia’s population.
......

Some women here say Ms. Winfrey’s assurances to her viewers — that no matter how restricted or even abusive their circumstances may be, they can take control in small ways and create lives of value — help them find meaning in their cramped, veiled existence.

“Oprah dresses conservatively,” explained Princess Reema bint Bandar al-Saud, a co-owner of a women’s spa in Riyadh called Yibreen and a daughter of Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the former Saudi ambassador to the United States. “She struggles with her weight. She overcame depression. She rose from poverty and from abuse. On all these levels she appeals to a Saudi woman. People really idolize her here.”
.......

“Many of us feel that the solutions for our problems have to come from outside,” Ms. Muhammad said. When President Bush visited Saudi Arabia in January, she continued, as an example, his presence briefly became a locus of hope for Saudi women. “A lot of women were saying that they wished they could talk to Bush about problems like forced marriage, about how our children are taken away if our husbands divorce us.”....
."more)



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