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Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:13 PM Jun 2017

We're in the middle of a vicious class war against the middle, working, lower, and poor classes

The GOP is leading the charge in this war, and they're winning by re-framing and conflating the class struggle as a race/gender/environmental/social issues/globalization/xenophobic struggle.

The struggling coal miner is unemployed purely because of environmental issues. The factory worker is laid off purely because of globalization. African Americans and undocumented workers are getting government benefits. The "elites" on the coasts hate your religious beliefs.

So, when Republicans win, what do they do? They pass laws that worsen the class struggle. Massive tax cuts for the wealthy. De-regulation of business. No raise in the min. wage.

The class resentment grows, and then it's back to the re-framing and conflating.

Bottom line is this. Neither the Democratic party NOR BERNIE SANDERS are truly prepared to build a national movement to counter this class struggle. They don't seem to really understand what exactly is going on here. In fact, there is NO major, organized force that can fight back on this class warfare.

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We're in the middle of a vicious class war against the middle, working, lower, and poor classes (Original Post) Yavin4 Jun 2017 OP
This won't change as long as most think they're 'middle' leftstreet Jun 2017 #1
This is where the conflating comes in. Most White people with a job think they're middle class Yavin4 Jun 2017 #2
Yep leftstreet Jun 2017 #4
Sure there is Phoenix61 Jun 2017 #3
That's one of the problem. It's not just the 1%. Yavin4 Jun 2017 #10
The top 10% of this country controls (aka "owns") 80% of its wealth. By my math, that KingCharlemagne Jun 2017 #24
Again, this is the problem. Yavin4 Jun 2017 #26
This is what life is like in a dying empire. roamer65 Jun 2017 #5
Most German workers thought they were better off under Hitler KingCharlemagne Jun 2017 #25
The Democratic party clearly isn't prepared to deal with the situation. elleng Jun 2017 #6
I'll be surprised if the dems ever gain influence again. CrispyQ Jun 2017 #9
They're not close to being prepared. They really don't have a clue. Yavin4 Jun 2017 #12
Excellent post ... LenaBaby61 Jun 2017 #7
Meh, it can turn on a dime BannonsLiver Jun 2017 #11
It didn't turn on a dime. Yavin4 Jun 2017 #14
thanks for the tip. BannonsLiver Jun 2017 #15
What we have going on here ... LenaBaby61 Jun 2017 #16
No doubt much of what you said is true BannonsLiver Jun 2017 #17
The Republicans have developed a powerful narrative on economics. Willie Pep Jun 2017 #8
What undermines that "1%/99%" argument is that it allows some very wealthy people into the tent. n/t Yavin4 Jun 2017 #13
Reminds me of the joke: A CEO, an immigrant and a Trump-supporter walk into a bar. pampango Jun 2017 #21
Japan has no unions...for it is the norm for CEOs to be responsible for all their workers... bresue Jun 2017 #30
And it's been years GermanDawg Jun 2017 #18
You need a naked, class based appeal. Yavin4 Jun 2017 #19
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2017 #20
It's only class warfare when the poor and middle class try to keep from starving Orrex Jun 2017 #22
Most of the major Socialist and Communist parties in this country understand KingCharlemagne Jun 2017 #23
Socialist and Communist parties may be aware of it but what are they doing about it? Yavin4 Jun 2017 #27
It's a class war fought in secret under the guise of race baiting and human ignorance. LonePirate Jun 2017 #28
And the Rubs main talking points...is if taxes are cut...more money in thier pockets! bresue Jun 2017 #29

leftstreet

(36,078 posts)
1. This won't change as long as most think they're 'middle'
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:16 PM
Jun 2017

I know, I know...no one wants to hear that

Most people AREN'T 'middle class,' but so long as they THINK they are they'll believe they have nothing in common with working class, working poor, and impoverished

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
2. This is where the conflating comes in. Most White people with a job think they're middle class
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:20 PM
Jun 2017

and that they don't need any help or assistance from the government because they're White with a job. They don't understand that they're the most vulnerable. Most domestic spending programs go to White people, and if these programs are cut, these White people will feel the sting far worse than any other group.

leftstreet

(36,078 posts)
4. Yep
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:24 PM
Jun 2017

Which is probably why most White People With a Job are so vulnerable to rally cries of Welfare Cadillac Queens! and Mexicans Taking Our Jobs! Makes you think on some level they fear the truth

Phoenix61

(16,952 posts)
3. Sure there is
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:20 PM
Jun 2017

Frame it correctly. The 1% wants it all. Period. They want the profit from your labor. They want the benefits from the taxes you pay. They want to send their children to private schools you pay for. They want the interest from the loans you will need to pay for medical care. They. Want. It. All.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
10. That's one of the problem. It's not just the 1%.
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:55 PM
Jun 2017

It's more like the top 25%. They contribute mightily to the class distinctions.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
24. The top 10% of this country controls (aka "owns") 80% of its wealth. By my math, that
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 09:20 AM
Jun 2017

leaves 20% of the country's wealth for the bottom 90% of the population.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
26. Again, this is the problem.
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 09:33 AM
Jun 2017

90% of the country are not all equally economically vulnerable. There are very well off people in that number that contribute to this class war as well.

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
5. This is what life is like in a dying empire.
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:28 PM
Jun 2017

Most people won't realize they've been screwed until its way too late.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
25. Most German workers thought they were better off under Hitler
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 09:22 AM
Jun 2017

and the Nazis from 1933-39, even though the economic numbers paint a picture of declinding per-capita standards of living during that same time period.

elleng

(130,147 posts)
6. The Democratic party clearly isn't prepared to deal with the situation.
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:29 PM
Jun 2017

There could be a major force to fight back if more would open their/our eyes, and if it doesn't happen, we're doomed.

CrispyQ

(36,226 posts)
9. I'll be surprised if the dems ever gain influence again.
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:54 PM
Jun 2017

They can barely keep the bad shit from happening, much less address the serious issues we face. The electoral problems will only get worse. They are in a seriously bad place and strategy isn't their strong suit.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
12. They're not close to being prepared. They really don't have a clue.
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:56 PM
Jun 2017

Most of them are part of the top 25%, so they really cannot understand on a fundamental level what's it like to be economically vulnerable. They cannot relate to it. That's why their only remedy is more college for everyone.

LenaBaby61

(6,965 posts)
7. Excellent post ...
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:34 PM
Jun 2017

And one in which I agree with 1,000%

Dems are screwed to HELL for a good long time unfortunately, because there is NO end in sight to the thuglican power-grab on steroids that's happening, and NOW, you have the ruskies--a foreign power hostile to this country--being allowed to interfere into our elections, because tRumputin is beholden to and owes russian oligarch's and russian mobsters a ton of favors, or they'll use kompramat against HIM. The USA is the laughing-stock of the world, toothless, embarrassing, and the installed president IS mentally deteriorating DAY by DAY, and while the GOP really have no use for him, they have to have him in the White House so that they can carry out their 'nefarious" agenda on Dems, minorities, women, the LGBTQ community, the old, the sick, the poor, children, their OWN voters.

We are SO screwed

BannonsLiver

(16,162 posts)
11. Meh, it can turn on a dime
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:56 PM
Jun 2017

I've saw this kind of hand wringing and tales of woe after 2004. Heck, I participated in it.

Bush's war was a disaster yet somehow he got re-elected. And worse he did it with the aid of bigoted gay marriage questions strategically placed on the ballots in key swing states. This drew the fundies by the bus load. I remember sitting in my house, a straight white male, with tears in my eyes because I couldn't believe I lived in a country that was so bigoted. And idiotic.

Two years later it was Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid.

Two years after that we elected a black guy with the middle name of Hussein by a landslide. Even better he would go on to win re-election by a huge margin.

A few years after that gay marriage was the law in every state in the union.

And maybe the biggest bonus mind fuck: Pot was fully legal in a handful of states, something I never would have believed in 2004 let alone when I took my first puff in 1991.

History: It's worth considering.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
14. It didn't turn on a dime.
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:13 AM
Jun 2017

It took a major economic collapse before the people booted Bush out of office. Within 2 years of Bush being out, the Republicans were put right back in control of the congress and greatly expanded their hold onto the states.

You're being fooled by individual election cycles. You're not seeing the long term pattern of destruction.

LenaBaby61

(6,965 posts)
16. What we have going on here ...
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 12:58 AM
Jun 2017

I understand history, but what we're living through IS not going to turn on a dime IMHO. Mitch McConnell will NOT have a change of heart and will ram through that death care bill--which is worse than the House version--so he can go on holiday next week. Our only hope is that 3 Republicans will not vote for it in the Senate. IF not, that death care bill and it's provisions stripped away from health care when passed isn't going to be ended easily--people are going to DIE do lack of health care and the lack of quality of that piece of a health care bill.

thuglicans like McConnell/Ryan are drunk with power, plus getting rid of thuglican voter suppression/gerrymandering is not going to be easy. And who knows how long the tRumputin/thuglicans will allow the ruskies to interfere in our elections? These thuglicans are in NO mood to give away power anytime soon, and will stick with tRump for as long as they can and for many, that means until the wheels come off and they're driving on tire rims. He's mentally deteriorating right before our eyes, but that's still not enough for thuglicans to get him out of office. Hopefully, Mueller's investigations (IF he's not fired) will yield the evidence (Obstruction of justice, Rico, collusion with russia, emoluments, whatever) needed to get tRumputin out of office. Even then, it won't be easy, because thuglicans will have to impeach him, and most of them are sticking with him for whatever nefarious reasons running around inside of their head.

BannonsLiver

(16,162 posts)
17. No doubt much of what you said is true
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:07 AM
Jun 2017

Still, we live in volatile times. The phrase anything can happen isn't a just a well worn cliche, it's the new normal.

Willie Pep

(841 posts)
8. The Republicans have developed a powerful narrative on economics.
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:47 PM
Jun 2017

Even some middle-class people who should really be voting for the Democrats vote for the Republicans because they have a strong narrative about why they feel insecure about the economy. After the recession in 2007-2008 the GOP went all out against public sector workers, unions and social program recipients. The Republicans tell Joe and Jane Average that they are suffering because of the greedy public sector workers and their unions sucking up their tax money to pay for their fat salaries and pensions. They tell them that the poor people who don't work are eating lobster and caviar on their dime through food stamps.

The Democrats have not done enough to counter this narrative. Occupy Wall Street and Bernie Sanders have the 1 percent meme but I agree that that is not enough, it is too abstract. With the collapse of working-class organizations like unions it is very hard for ordinary people to become educated in how the class system works and how they are getting screwed. In the place of unions you have Fox News, right-wing talk radio and now right-wing Internet outlets that spout conspiracy theories. Even a lot of unions members who should know better fall for this stuff. Not a good situation.

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
13. What undermines that "1%/99%" argument is that it allows some very wealthy people into the tent. n/t
Tue Jun 20, 2017, 11:58 PM
Jun 2017

pampango

(24,692 posts)
21. Reminds me of the joke: A CEO, an immigrant and a Trump-supporter walk into a bar.
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 09:04 AM
Jun 2017

They sit down and the waiter brings a plate with a dozen cookies (yes, cookies in a bar!) on it. Before the others can move the CEO grabs 11 of the cookies then leans over and whispers to the Trump supporter, "You better keep your eye on that immigrant. She is likely to steal that cookie which should be yours."

bresue

(1,007 posts)
30. Japan has no unions...for it is the norm for CEOs to be responsible for all their workers...
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 09:49 AM
Jun 2017

The companies act like a family with employees...and the top insures that all workers are like clan members.

GermanDawg

(3 posts)
18. And it's been years
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 01:24 AM
Jun 2017

Since a Democrat acknowledged that it is and always has been labor and capital....no mater your race, your sexual orientation, your religion.....you are either a member of labor or capital.....and capital is still winning because labor is so easily distracted by shiny things like same sex marriage and global warming....when folks are losing their homes and are unable to earn a living.

The civil rights act was passed in part because people felt secure....it is easy to be gracious when the wolf isn't at the door. It would have never passed had working people at the time been as distraught about their security as they are now. The things that individuals on the left care about will take dare of themselves as soon as enough of American labor is once again secure.....until that happens the right will continue to divide and conquer.....

Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Orrex

(63,085 posts)
22. It's only class warfare when the poor and middle class try to keep from starving
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 09:13 AM
Jun 2017

At that point the leisure class invariably howls "you're always crying class warfare!"

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
23. Most of the major Socialist and Communist parties in this country understand
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 09:18 AM
Jun 2017

EXACTLY what is going on. The Democratic Party is a 'capitalist' party, dedicated to keeping the means of production privately controlled and maximizing profit for private owners of that means of production. They differ from the the fascists only in how to maintain private control of the means of the production and how best to maximize profits for the bourgeoisie.

As Ossoff's campaign proves, Dems run away from class antagonism, not toward it. What can you otherwise expect from a capitalist party predicated on protecting the interests of one of those classes, the bourgeoisie?

Yavin4

(35,357 posts)
27. Socialist and Communist parties may be aware of it but what are they doing about it?
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 09:34 AM
Jun 2017

Where are they organizing?

bresue

(1,007 posts)
29. And the Rubs main talking points...is if taxes are cut...more money in thier pockets!
Wed Jun 21, 2017, 09:41 AM
Jun 2017

Sounds great...however the lower class are not having any income tax charged...they get most of it returned at the end year.

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