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LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:21 AM Sep 2017

I have a bad feeling about the latest with North Korea.

Based on Trump's recent bluster.

I am thinking that it has come to the point where Trump is going to have to back up his tough talk, or risk looking like a fool to his base.

His actions indicate that he will do anything to maintain his base.

This is why it is so reckless and irresponsible to talk shit when it comes to life and death matters. It limits your options. Trump appears to be as unstable as Kim, and my only hope is that Mattis and Kelly can somehow keep his finger off the button.

I really hope I am wrong with my gut feeling.

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I have a bad feeling about the latest with North Korea. (Original Post) LuckyCharms Sep 2017 OP
He scares me to death. Kath2 Sep 2017 #1
Me too, me too. n/t LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #4
Good, he should. He is an extremely stupid person, he knows nothing Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #53
If or when NK nukes Guam, what would be appropriate for Mad Dog to suggest? Not Ruth Sep 2017 #2
I really do not know at this point. LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #5
If tough talk is meaningless, is any talk meaningful? Not Ruth Sep 2017 #10
No, not all talk is meaningless. LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #15
So we should get out of the Koreas and let China take charge? Not Ruth Sep 2017 #16
Please see my response below to you. n/t LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #20
so you are heaven05 Sep 2017 #21
No, but you cannot put the genie back into the bottle can you? Not Ruth Sep 2017 #22
8 months ago they didn't have trump. But, they sure didn't have nothing. mucifer Sep 2017 #31
As far as we knew, or anyone knew, they had nothing Not Ruth Sep 2017 #35
no everyone knows they have been working on nukes for a long time. mucifer Sep 2017 #40
Ok, they had a lot of failed science experiments Not Ruth Sep 2017 #42
first It has not been heaven05 Sep 2017 #38
They have it already. CentralMass Sep 2017 #52
they aren't going to do that. Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #46
I think you're right. A war would also put an end to the special prosecutor investigation. AJT Sep 2017 #3
Not at the state level uponit7771 Sep 2017 #6
I wouldn't put it past this arrogant bombastic fool to start a war. Kath2 Sep 2017 #9
I've been verging on an anxiety attack, all morning Siwsan Sep 2017 #7
I feel that way every day. Kath2 Sep 2017 #11
I'm always waiting for the next foot to drop. I see little intelligence coming from Trump to be RKP5637 Sep 2017 #33
No lie, I've been on the verge LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #13
I know -- every day I have this doomy feeling of extreme anxiety that I just can't seem Nay Sep 2017 #48
We need to get this lunatic out of office now! smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #8
I agree. also, we need to find a way to turn the heat down LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #12
That's what I'm afraid of. It doesn't matter to him if millions of people lose their lives. smirkymonkey Sep 2017 #14
Agree. Everyday brings him closer to LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #17
It may be time for the Koreas to unify, the US to leave, and for China to control the region Not Ruth Sep 2017 #18
That is an interesting premise. LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #19
He would be dictator for life and for the lives of his children of a unified Korea Not Ruth Sep 2017 #23
And what do the people of South Korea gain? n/t LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #24
A life without war Not Ruth Sep 2017 #25
They already have a life without war now. LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #26
Might is a mighty big word Not Ruth Sep 2017 #27
So let Kim take Korea. LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #28
Why would he want Japan? Not Ruth Sep 2017 #29
Because he is nothing more than a super ego in flesh form. n/t LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #30
He wants one Korea because up until recently, there was just one Korea, not because of ego Not Ruth Sep 2017 #32
Korea would probably slip into 3rd world status LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #36
The alternative is losing Seoul and Guam Not Ruth Sep 2017 #39
No it isn't. Kentonio Sep 2017 #44
What if North Korea marches on South Korea and we look the other way Not Ruth Sep 2017 #45
If NK marched on SK, we wouldn't just look the other way. Kentonio Sep 2017 #50
Under a North Korean dictator it wouldn't be like that. mucifer Sep 2017 #34
Trump is a sociopath! He does not care if millions lose their lives. I'm afraid we will see a RKP5637 Sep 2017 #37
What would you do with respect to North Korea? oberliner Sep 2017 #41
I honestly do not know. But my general thoughts are as follows: LuckyCharms Sep 2017 #54
NK is doing all they can to seek their annihilation and giving Trump all the justification to do so beachbum bob Sep 2017 #43
You don't need nukes to start shit lame54 Sep 2017 #47
There are indications that it was all a Trump bluff jimlup Sep 2017 #49
I hope the Generals disobey him SHRED Sep 2017 #51

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
53. Good, he should. He is an extremely stupid person, he knows nothing
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 12:50 PM
Sep 2017

at all, nothing about real estate or hotels let alone diplomacy or military strategy.

Election stolen

EMERGENCY EMERGENCY, get him the FUCK out of my WHITE HOUSE

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
5. I really do not know at this point.
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:29 AM
Sep 2017

But I think that China has to start now with every form of pressure possible, and even that probably won't work.

At this point, Kim is literally laughing at the US, and he either doesn't understand or he doesn't care about the destruction of his country or the death of millions in the region.

This is a terrible mess, one that probably does not have a good solution. Tough talk from the US is meaningless.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
10. If tough talk is meaningless, is any talk meaningful?
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:33 AM
Sep 2017

I guess that we could just let NK have SK. That would be a bad option, but one that would be potentially safer for SK than us in a war there.

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
15. No, not all talk is meaningless.
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:39 AM
Sep 2017

However, I don't think that the talking can be done by us anymore.

It is obvious that Kim is enjoying playing with Trump.

Short of warfare, I'm not sure if we can back up our talk anymore.

China has to do it, because they may be able to put meaningful sanctions on NK.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
21. so you are
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:46 AM
Sep 2017

just IGNORING the fact of WHO started this mess in the first place to try and look tough like the RW small finger man child he is, do I have that correct? And who kept ratcheting up the stakes? Idiot Kim took the bait and now we stand at the precipice. I know who to point the finger at and it ain't the idiot in NK, it's the RW idiot and hawks in D.C.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
22. No, but you cannot put the genie back into the bottle can you?
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:47 AM
Sep 2017

North Korea now has a hydrogen bomb that can destroy San Francisco. 8 months ago, they had nothing. You cannot go 8 months back in time.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
38. first It has not been
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 10:08 AM
Sep 2017

proven that it was a hydrogen bomb, second, I blame one person, along with bannon, miller and gorka for this mess we are in at the moment with a crazed dictator in NK. That's it. People can equivocate and squirm, yet ONE PERSON caused this mess. I don't care that eight months of provocation by ONE PERSON caused this mess and that "we can't go back". Like Obama did as a true leader-statesman for 8 YEARS, we should have been offering the carrot and the stick, now all we have to offer against Kim's ego is that fool in the white house......but I forget with the RW leaders now, it's all about white superiority and leadership that the whole world MUST kowtow to....and no yellow people are going to stand up to the great white leader in D.C.

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
46. they aren't going to do that.
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 11:00 AM
Sep 2017

they are building a nuclear force to prevent military aggression against their nation.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
33. I'm always waiting for the next foot to drop. I see little intelligence coming from Trump to be
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 10:04 AM
Sep 2017

able to handle this. His whole life has been making bombastic threats and throwing money around.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
48. I know -- every day I have this doomy feeling of extreme anxiety that I just can't seem
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 12:26 PM
Sep 2017

to shake. I've upped my gym time and started doing more stuff with friends, but I can't completely rid myself of that feeling.

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
12. I agree. also, we need to find a way to turn the heat down
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:34 AM
Sep 2017

to eliminate the short term threat, and then work on the longer term threat once that is accomplished.

What is worrying me is that Trump takes everything as a personal affront, making him likely to react impulsively.

I can almost picture him saying "Fuck this. I've had enough. We're nuking them".

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
14. That's what I'm afraid of. It doesn't matter to him if millions of people lose their lives.
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:36 AM
Sep 2017

If it gets his Russia scandal out of the news, he will see it as a viable option.

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
17. Agree. Everyday brings him closer to
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:42 AM
Sep 2017

the climax of the Russia investigation. He is slowly being backed into a corner.

Mueller is going to have to strike a delicate balance between:

a) Having enough to force impeachment, and

b) Waiting too long to do so.

edit: spelling

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
19. That is an interesting premise.
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:44 AM
Sep 2017

I've never thought of it in those terms, and it is intereting to go down this road.

I'm not sure what it would buy for Kim though. Would probably destoy his ego.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
23. He would be dictator for life and for the lives of his children of a unified Korea
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:49 AM
Sep 2017

Part of which has a robust economy

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
26. They already have a life without war now.
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:53 AM
Sep 2017

And if China steps up, they might be able to continue to have one without having a dictator take over their country.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
27. Might is a mighty big word
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 09:56 AM
Sep 2017

So long as North Korea is standing alone with a hydrogen bomb that can destroy San Francisco, the situation is volatile.

Actually the Koreas are at war currently, they have a truce though.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
32. He wants one Korea because up until recently, there was just one Korea, not because of ego
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 10:04 AM
Sep 2017

South Koreans want that too. They just could not agree about who was in charge. If you have the hydrogen bomb, you win that argument, no contest.

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
36. Korea would probably slip into 3rd world status
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 10:07 AM
Sep 2017

with Kim as leader.

Also, letting a dictator take over a country does not really set good precedent.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
44. No it isn't.
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 10:36 AM
Sep 2017

The leadership of NK are not morons, they understand that any attempt to wage war on South Korea would result in their destruction. Having nukes merely means that they are not as vulnerable to pre-emptive attack from the outside to overthrow the regime. It doesn't give them a 'do anything you like' card.

The only realistic scenario that leads to Seoul being destroyed is if the US attacks NK. So how about we just don't do that?

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
45. What if North Korea marches on South Korea and we look the other way
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 10:39 AM
Sep 2017

That would work for North Korea

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
50. If NK marched on SK, we wouldn't just look the other way.
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 12:40 PM
Sep 2017

And if NK then used nukes, we'd destroy their country. They know that perfectly well, so what advantage is there for them in that scenario?

This all makes a lot more sense if you consider NK as rational actors, and not the crazy nutjobs the media love to paint them as. They're evil certainly, but not insane.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
37. Trump is a sociopath! He does not care if millions lose their lives. I'm afraid we will see a
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 10:07 AM
Sep 2017

preemptive strike by Trump.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
41. What would you do with respect to North Korea?
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 10:25 AM
Sep 2017

If you were president, how would you handle this situation?

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
54. I honestly do not know. But my general thoughts are as follows:
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 03:37 PM
Sep 2017

1) Absolutely no more sabre rattling on the part of the US. Formally recognize NK as a nuclear power, but make it clear that any further advancement of this power will be considered and act of aggression, leading to #2 below.

2) US must repeatedly assure NK that they are under no threat from us unless they are militarily aggressive against another country or territory. At that point, our response will be appropriately sized based on NK's aggression.

3) Encourage China, using positive reinforcement for the country of China (benefits, rather than sanctions) to get NK under control.

4) Perhaps try to convince NK that there is another path for their country besides a "one Korea" solution. Aim towards future aid and support for the economic development of NK as a singular entity.

I don't know...that's all I have. The more time they can be kept from aggressive military acts, the longer people live.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
43. NK is doing all they can to seek their annihilation and giving Trump all the justification to do so
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 10:35 AM
Sep 2017

No way a NK can exist in its present form with a nuclear weapon(s) capable of wiping Seoul or Tokyo off the map. This is truly a Chinese problem to correct and if they can't I am afraid NK will most likely not exist....

What Trump has or hasn;t done or said really is of no matter at the moment as NK is pursuing a path of their own destruction

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
49. There are indications that it was all a Trump bluff
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 12:32 PM
Sep 2017

This came out from Bannon during his resignation.

Personally, I think that even if he decides he wants to go all in - the generals will persuade him not to. He'll lose face with some of his supporters. Most will just ignore it and continue to believe in the Orange Child King.

I could be wrong.. God help us if I'm wrong!

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