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underpants

(182,271 posts)
Thu Apr 19, 2012, 08:08 PM Apr 2012

Starbucks de-bugs its menu offerings (still cheaper than using actual strawberries)

Source: USA Today

Just weeks after the world's largest coffee chain took serious PR heat from vegan groups and public relations gurus for switching to commonly-used cochineal beetles to color its Strawberry Frappuccinos, the company's U.S. president, Cliff Burrows, now says that bugs are coming out and tomato-based extract is coming in.

"We fell short of your expectations," he said, in a statement on Thursday on the company's "My Starbucks Idea" consumer site. "We are reformulating the affected products to assure the highest quality possible."

By the end of June, he says, the company will transition to using lycopene, a natural, tomato-based extract, in its Strawberry & Creme Frappuccino blended beverage and Strawberry Banana Smoothie. It also will drop the use of cochineal extract in its Raspberry Swirl Cake, Birthday Cake Pop, Mini Donut with pink icing and Red Velvet Whoopie Pie.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/story/2012-04-19/starbucks-no-red-dye-drinks/54414032/1

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/story/2012-04-19/starbucks-no-red-dye-drinks/54414032/1

59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Starbucks de-bugs its menu offerings (still cheaper than using actual strawberries) (Original Post) underpants Apr 2012 OP
A good day for beetles. nt ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #1
Don't frappuccino's contain milk? drm604 Apr 2012 #2
Because there isnt one specific type of Vegan. cstanleytech Apr 2012 #3
My understanding is that some vegetarians will consume milk and eggs drm604 Apr 2012 #4
Thanks bluedovepdx Apr 2012 #15
Vegan type (never heard of such a thing)? bluedovepdx Apr 2012 #14
There is no type of vegan that consumes dairy. Or beetles. LeftyMom Apr 2012 #16
My reply was towards the dairy aspect and in that I stand my ground in that cstanleytech Apr 2012 #31
There is no sort of vegan that eats dairy or egg. Codeine Apr 2012 #34
Suggestion, research please. cstanleytech Apr 2012 #43
If that person eats eggs, that person is not a vegan. Codeine Apr 2012 #51
Vegans eat ZERO animal products obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #54
There isn't one specific type of vegetarian jmowreader Apr 2012 #47
Oh I agree with you. cstanleytech Apr 2012 #49
Vegans never, ever drink milk obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #25
Two words........Soy milk cstanleytech Apr 2012 #44
Now you sound like a dietician I once had a "discussion" with quakerboy Apr 2012 #50
Its not milk from an animal true but its still called milk so :p cstanleytech Apr 2012 #56
Soymilk isn't milk. Codeine Apr 2012 #52
You know, you'd think by now... flvegan Apr 2012 #57
What, I don't get any comment on my vegangelical jihad against the dairy and bug eating vegans, LeftyMom Apr 2012 #58
Which isn't milk obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #55
I suspect crediting the vegans is meant to turn attention away from the main group of critics Bjorn Against Apr 2012 #6
Europe prefers cochineal as a red food dye, for health reasons muriel_volestrangler Apr 2012 #9
That may very well be true... Bjorn Against Apr 2012 #10
Then best that they don't know how many years and in how many enlightenment Apr 2012 #11
Cochineal extract has been used since Mayan times. Zoeisright Apr 2012 #18
Not to mention the "worm" in the mezcal. yellowcanine Apr 2012 #29
Photography -- VERY non-vegetarian also Blort Apr 2012 #59
Cochineal extract has been used since Mayan times. Zoeisright Apr 2012 #18
But they will eat shrimp, crabs, crayfish and lobster. Go figure. yellowcanine Apr 2012 #30
Anyone who grew up on a farm knows how silly it is to fear eating insects NickB79 Apr 2012 #37
If the prez can eat grasshoppers, then straphangers can drink beetle juice. Psephos Apr 2012 #12
And if anyone eats shrimp they should not shrink at beetles or grasshoppers. yellowcanine Apr 2012 #28
True, that! n/t Psephos Apr 2012 #42
I understand vegans' concerns about factory farming, alp227 Apr 2012 #17
I think you misunderstand the point, LeftyMom Apr 2012 #18
Thank you, Lefty Mom tru Apr 2012 #21
Oh Jesus fucking Christ. Codeine Apr 2012 #36
True its probably the bug factor cstanleytech Apr 2012 #45
They can be made with soy milk obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Apr 2012 #27
I can finally sleep at night. n/t Ian David Apr 2012 #5
Bugs aren't kosher either Danmel Apr 2012 #7
Some insects are kosher Mosby Apr 2012 #35
There's nothing wrong with cochineal. Denninmi Apr 2012 #8
There is something wrong with cochineal tru Apr 2012 #22
Exactly. fasttense Apr 2012 #23
Easy: it doesn't come out uniformly reddish-pink enough for Joe Coffeelover jmowreader Apr 2012 #48
Do you swat flies, or slap a mosquito on your arm? nt NickB79 Apr 2012 #38
Nick tru Apr 2012 #39
Because, you know, god forbid you actually put strawberries into a kestrel91316 Apr 2012 #13
What's wrong with tomato frappuchinos? marble falls Apr 2012 #24
You're so silly, strawberries are needed for the cochineal beetle Frappuccinos. Uncle Joe Apr 2012 #33
I dont know why they have to even use a dye, you would think using strawberries themselves cstanleytech Apr 2012 #46
Especially for the price they charge for the fucking thing. originalpckelly Apr 2012 #53
I ate beetles??? In my birthday cake pop??? UGH!!!!! adigal Apr 2012 #32
Don't the strawberries or raspberries thesmselves make these items reddish-pink? mikeytherat Apr 2012 #40
Now if they'd just stop burning the beans get get them from non-slave-labour, we'd be all set TrogL Apr 2012 #41

drm604

(16,230 posts)
4. My understanding is that some vegetarians will consume milk and eggs
Thu Apr 19, 2012, 08:36 PM
Apr 2012

but vegans avoid ALL animal products. I don't see anything in that article that indicates otherwise.

Maybe Starbucks uses soy milk or something like that.

 

bluedovepdx

(28 posts)
15. Thanks
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 12:41 AM
Apr 2012

drm604 for your posting. I was composing mine without knowing that you had posted yours. Yes, some vegetarians consume eggs and dairy products (and may wear leather shoes or wool....also things avoided by vegans).

 

bluedovepdx

(28 posts)
14. Vegan type (never heard of such a thing)?
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 12:33 AM
Apr 2012

Vegans avoid all animal-derived products....in our food, our beverages (some beers and wines are processed with animal-derived products and therefore are not vegan....same with sugar) and our clothing including jackets/coats/shoes, soaps/detergent, etc., and products tested on animals. Dairy-derived products are most definitely not vegan. There are quite a few acceptable alternatives...almond, rice, hemp, soy and coconut "milk" for example fine. In Portland, OR, my home city, all of the coffee shops I've patronized have at least one (usually more) of these dairy alternatives. These alternatives are also used to make vegan "ice cream". Yummy. I've been vegan for 18 (veg 3 yrs prior to that, will be 48 yrs old soon) years and involved in political and animal rights activism. A vegan diet alone does not make one vegan. It's a way of life. I don't see it as about perfection but doing the best one can with the goal of a cruelty-free life (for all of the vegans I know it's about the animals and less important is health as a reason...but the environmental reason is a good one too). What we consume is the easiest part of being vegan. Living in Portland makes it easy for those who live here...plenty of veg*an restaurants & food carts, natural food stores (including co-ops and one all-vegan food store called Food Fight) & other veg-friendly businesses. It might seem difficult to live vegan but it's not....and yes I get more than enough protein in my diet and all the nutrients I need including B12. Awesome farmers markets here with mostly organic fruits and veggies.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
16. There is no type of vegan that consumes dairy. Or beetles.
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 01:47 AM
Apr 2012

If anybody tells you otherwise, they are very confused, because that is not what the word means.

edit: Starbucks changed the way they make Frappucinos a while back. Previously they used a dairy base, now they use any milk option (soy, plus whatever the cow's milk options they offer are- I have no idea) so most of the flavors can be made vegan. Some still have dairy from the caramel flavor or something, but vegans know to check stuff like that before we order. Personally, I prefer Peets.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
31. My reply was towards the dairy aspect and in that I stand my ground in that
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 11:00 AM
Apr 2012

there isnt one specific type of vegan.
Some people who claim to be vegan do in fact eat eggs and consume dairy products, they probably dont fall into the narrow definition of "vegan" as you and others see it but as they see it they do thus my point when I said that there isnt one specific type of Vegan.
Of course if you want I guess you could start a small jihad over it and hunt down and kill the infidel vegans in which case let me know how that works out for you

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
34. There is no sort of vegan that eats dairy or egg.
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 12:40 PM
Apr 2012

That's just stupid. The term specifically denotes someone who doesn't eat those things. People who do not eat meat but do eat dairy and/or eggs are vegetarians, not vegans. You have no idea what you're on about.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
43. Suggestion, research please.
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 09:57 PM
Apr 2012

A simple google search for example turned up this old thread here http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?1370-Vegans-and-eggs

I am not saying that I believe their vegans or that they arent rather that there are many different varieties of people who claim to be vegan thus there are many different types of vegan just like there are many different types of the Abrahamic religions.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
51. If that person eats eggs, that person is not a vegan.
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 07:47 AM
Apr 2012

Vegan means "does not eat any animal product." I've been a vegan for nearly a quarter of a century; I know what the word means.

Even your link indicates this; the posters agree that vegans do not eat eggs and that the person would be better off feeding the eggs to their dog.

jmowreader

(50,447 posts)
47. There isn't one specific type of vegetarian
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 02:45 AM
Apr 2012

Vegan is a specific subset of vegetarianism (no use of animal products whatsoever) that also includes animal rights activism.

IMO someone who eats eggs and dairy but claims veganism doesn't know what veganism actually is; they just know it sounds cooler than "vegetarian."

quakerboy

(13,901 posts)
50. Now you sound like a dietician I once had a "discussion" with
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 04:25 AM
Apr 2012

We had a diabetic client in common. Her determination was that he should not be allowed to have Atkins brand shakes because it had sucralose, which is a type of sugar. Your argument makes about as much sense.

Soy milk is not milk. TVP is not meat. Aspartame is not sugar. One could argue about the relative health effects of substituting any of these products for any individual diet. But they are not the same thing, even if they are used in the socially accepted food slot of the other.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
52. Soymilk isn't milk.
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 07:50 AM
Apr 2012

Almond milk, help milk, and rice milk aren't milk either. You're being silly now.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
58. What, I don't get any comment on my vegangelical jihad against the dairy and bug eating vegans,
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 08:32 PM
Apr 2012

which are totally a thing and I just don't understand what veganism is?

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
6. I suspect crediting the vegans is meant to turn attention away from the main group of critics
Thu Apr 19, 2012, 08:57 PM
Apr 2012

I suspect the main opponents were not vegans, but rather people who were turned off by the thought of ordering Beetle Juice in their frappuccino. While I recognize that we all eat more bugs than we care to realize, the fact is that most people are still disgusted at the thought of eating beetles. From a PR perspective it is better for them to say "we did it to please the vegans" than "we did it because people figured out our little secret that we intentionally put beetles in your frappucino."

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
10. That may very well be true...
Thu Apr 19, 2012, 09:51 PM
Apr 2012

But that does not change the fact that most Americans have an adverse reaction to the thought of eating beetles, it may be perfectly safe but that does not mean it won't invoke unpleasant thoughts in a large number of people.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
11. Then best that they don't know how many years and in how many
Thu Apr 19, 2012, 10:02 PM
Apr 2012

products cochineal (carmine) is used.

I'd much rather eat bugs than coal - which is what Red Dye #40 is made from.

Zoeisright

(8,339 posts)
18. Cochineal extract has been used since Mayan times.
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 02:06 AM
Apr 2012

It's perfectly safe. If you don't like eating insect parts, then you had better avoid:

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/06/29/how_many_insect_parts_and_rodent_hairs_are_allowed_in_your_food.htm

Chocolate.

Fruit Juices.

Fish.

Pasta

Flour.

Peanut butter.

Popcorn.

Because insect parts, fly eggs, and maggots are allowed in all of those products.

Blort

(9 posts)
59. Photography -- VERY non-vegetarian also
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 11:59 PM
Apr 2012

I teach photography-- and like to point out exactly how non-vegetarian photography is... and that Kodak once the largest manufacturer of gelatin in the world, still makes gelatin--- well I think they are selling it off after bankruptcy, but the company that started Jell-o actually had their plant in Rochester NY to be near Kodak to be able to buy gelatin. And gelatin is just made of all the "extra" bits of cows that don't get made into steaks.


http://www.kodak.com/global/mul/corp/img/landing/gelatinLdg.jhtml

Zoeisright

(8,339 posts)
18. Cochineal extract has been used since Mayan times.
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 02:06 AM
Apr 2012

It's perfectly safe. If you don't like eating insect parts, then you had better avoid:

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/06/29/how_many_insect_parts_and_rodent_hairs_are_allowed_in_your_food.htm

Chocolate.

Fruit Juices.

Fish.

Pasta

Flour.

Peanut butter.

Popcorn.

Because insect parts, fly eggs, and maggots are allowed in all of those products.

NickB79

(19,109 posts)
37. Anyone who grew up on a farm knows how silly it is to fear eating insects
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 01:08 PM
Apr 2012

Whenever we'd bring in gravity bins full of harvested grain (oats, soy, corn, wheat), the top inch or so would be nothing but swarming insects pulled up by the harvesters with the grain. It was mostly grasshoppers, and the worst crop for this was oats. They'd all be augered up into the drying silos with the grain, with no attempt made to separate them out.

Just a bit of extra protein once they'd been dried down and ground up.

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
28. And if anyone eats shrimp they should not shrink at beetles or grasshoppers.
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 09:46 AM
Apr 2012

grasshoppers, beetles, shrimp - all arthropods.

alp227

(31,959 posts)
17. I understand vegans' concerns about factory farming,
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 01:54 AM
Apr 2012

but their concern over food derived from insects makes them sound more fundamentalist. Helnce, vegangelicals. Veganism is a religion that instills irrational concerns in people.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
18. I think you misunderstand the point,
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 02:06 AM
Apr 2012

which isn't surprising because some vegans don't communicate very well.

Veganism is an ethical system, the central idea of which is to avoid the use or exploitation of non-human animals whenever doing so is possible. It is not about factory farming, in fact the coining of the term and establishment of the first vegan organization predates most of what could now be termed factory farming.

 

tru

(237 posts)
21. Thank you, Lefty Mom
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 04:29 AM
Apr 2012

It's nice to see a clear, concise statement of what veganism is.

And alp227, your misunderstanding of what veganism is is very common. It astounds me how many people react to vegetarians and vegans as if we were wearing masks and dancing around a fire in the jungle instead of knowing vegetarianism and veganism are founded in respect for life.

I'm a vegetarian, not a vegan, but I am careful to get things like eggs from a neighbor who has truly free range chickens, etc.

One of the things about being a vegetarian is that animal products "hide" in many things. It was, for example, a couple of years after I went vegetarian before I realized Jello was made with animal products (hooves, stomachs, etc. form gelatin.)

It never occurred to me that "strawberry" products contained beetles, sigh.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
45. True its probably the bug factor
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 10:11 PM
Apr 2012

but to each their own.
Personally it didnt bother me for 3 main reasons
#1 I literally dont have the type of money (and probably never will) to order even a simple cup of coffee from a Starbucks
#2 Even if I had the money I cant see wasting it on an overpriced cup of said coffee
#3 Its just as food coloring so it doesnt bother me and its a natural food coloring at that.

Response to drm604 (Reply #2)

Danmel

(4,892 posts)
7. Bugs aren't kosher either
Thu Apr 19, 2012, 09:06 PM
Apr 2012

I was buying some food to donate to a local kosher food pantry & picked up a can of del monte fruit cocktail. Then I noticed it didnt have kosher certification. I called the toll free number on the can & they told me it was colored with a beetle based dye. Grossed me out. Now I look for kosher cert- no beetlejuice!

Denninmi

(6,581 posts)
8. There's nothing wrong with cochineal.
Thu Apr 19, 2012, 09:11 PM
Apr 2012

It's been used as a dye and food coloring for centuries. It's an all natural product, and its cultivation provides important income to small farmers in Mexico, Central and South America, most in areas where farming is marginal for many crops, but where the Opuntia cactus that is the host for the cochineal insect thrives.

I certainly support the right of consumers to know what they are eating, but I also think that this is much ado about nothing. Would you rather eat an all-natural product or a completely synthetic one that has unknown risks up to and possibly including cancer?

From Wikipedia:

"It has become commercially valuable again,[9] although most consumers are unaware that the phrases "cochineal extract", "carmine", "crimson lake", "natural red 4", "C.I. 75470", "E120", or even "natural colouring" refer to a dye that is derived from an insect. One reason for its popularity is that many commercial synthetic red dyes were found to be carcinogenic.[10] The dye can, however, induce an anaphylactic shock reaction in rare cases.[11]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochineal

 

tru

(237 posts)
22. There is something wrong with cochineal
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 04:33 AM
Apr 2012

If one prefers not to kill animals.

How about the concept of no dyeing food? Strangely enough, things I make myself from strawberries are naturally pink or red which makes me wonder how many strawberries are in those dyed products. And I wouldn't care if a strawberry shake were white.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
23. Exactly.
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 06:36 AM
Apr 2012

Why use dye at all?

If it's fresh and uses real strawberries, it comes out reddish pink without dyes.

Something is strange about their strawberry drinks if they have to add dyes to it to make it reddish pink.

jmowreader

(50,447 posts)
48. Easy: it doesn't come out uniformly reddish-pink enough for Joe Coffeelover
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 02:53 AM
Apr 2012

You got a food processor? Do a little experiment.

Get a pound of strawberries and throw three of them in the machine, grind them up fine and add them to a cup of milk. Repeat three times. Then look at the color. Every glass will be a slightly different shade. The average American, used to artificial flavors and colors, will see the variance in color as "proof" they're getting ripped off: "Why did you put more strawberries in his drink than mine?" Throw a little bit of food coloring in there, and every drink can be exactly the same shade.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
46. I dont know why they have to even use a dye, you would think using strawberries themselves
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 02:29 AM
Apr 2012

would suffice.

originalpckelly

(24,382 posts)
53. Especially for the price they charge for the fucking thing.
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 07:52 AM
Apr 2012

Jesus, for almost 5 bucks for the largest one, that shit out to be a real fucking strawberry.

mikeytherat

(6,829 posts)
40. Don't the strawberries or raspberries thesmselves make these items reddish-pink?
Fri Apr 20, 2012, 03:32 PM
Apr 2012

Seriously. Am I missing something here? When I make smoothies with strawberries and bananas, the strawberry red color definitely is the dominant one.




mikey_the_rat

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