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brooklynite

(93,847 posts)
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 07:49 AM Jun 2016

Venezuela delays Nicolas Maduro recall referendum

Source: Al Jazeera

Venezuela's opposition has appealed for calm after electoral authorities cancelled a meeting on whether they could go ahead with efforts to remove President Nicolas Maduro in a referendum.

The National Electoral Board (CNE) had been due to deliver its ruling on whether it accepted or rejected an initial petition with 1.8 million signatures endorsing a recall vote against Maduro.

Maduro's opponents say the country faces an explosion of unrest if authorities do not allow the recall referendum this year.
Counting the Cost - Behind Venezuela's looming collapse

But just after their meeting with the CNE was due to start on Thursday, Jesus Torrealba, opposition spokesperson, said the electoral authorities had postponed it indefinitely.

Read more: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/venezuela-delays-nicolas-maduro-recall-referendum-160602191659878.html

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
2. This incompetent idiot has destroyed in a couple years the leftist movement...
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:12 AM
Jun 2016

...it took Chavez decades to build. Fuck Maduro.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
3. Chavez started the programs that Maduro continued
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:47 AM
Jun 2016

It was doomed to fail from the start & had already started failing long before Chavez died. Seizing assets never works in the long run

David__77

(23,214 posts)
4. Taxation is seizing assets.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 10:51 AM
Jun 2016

I don't think that's the problem with the policies. I think it's a matter of what is done with public assets.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
5. The seizing that Maduro has been doing
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:19 AM
Jun 2016

is totally different from taxation.
Taxation is based on the law, and I'm able to sit down with you and show you, using statutes and math why you owe this or that.
Expropriation means that I show up with soldiers and take what I want just because I want it. Yesterday you owned it free and clear. Today, you're broke.
At least two airlines have said that they aren't going to be operating in Venezuela anymore, because they aren't making any money on it anymore. Maduro would show up, and the AK-47s they're holding lets the airlines know they don't own planes anymore.
Theft, pure and simple.

David__77

(23,214 posts)
6. Anything can be made legal.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:26 AM
Jun 2016

Theft is a consideration. I do get the distinction between taxation and expropriation that you're making. At the same time, it is not as if expropriation isn't practiced in many countries around the world under various conditions.

As a matter of policy, I think it makes sense to offer compensation to previous owners of real property seized by the government for some purpose.

All that said, I think the problem is Venezuela is what was done with the public assets.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
14. Price controls and a trend toward centralized control, imo.
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:27 AM
Jun 2016

They should've decentralized production and redistributed money. Instead they would give a million here or a million there to an organization the country would set up, and the money would disappear. Some of the shadiest stuff you can imagine went on even under Chavez.

There was a fantastic example in the Aban Pearl, an oil rig that was rented for about $730k a day, the rental agreement was literally set up by some scammers using a shell corporation in Panama (ring a bell?). The actual cost of the rig? $358k a day. Literally a handful of people stole some $370k a day from the Venezuelan people. That's only, what, like 10 cents from each Venezuelan, so small change, but it adds up. And there were no prosecutions about it. Only reason we found out about it was because the oil rig sank.

I think the biggest fault of socialistic practices is that everyone freaks out when there's self-criticism. When that shit came to light it wasn't a damn right wing conspiracy, they just got screwed, they should've accepted it, and fixed it, figured out a way to improve the contracting system, something, so it wouldn't happen again, etc. And arrest the people who did it.

 

DemMomma4Sanders

(274 posts)
8. There is very little free and clear about ownership outside of The US
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 02:01 PM
Jun 2016

Americans may not care that corporations and financiers were able to steal their resources and wealth, property through Lobbied politicians....in the rest of the world people remember this.

What is happening in Venezuela and Brazil is no different than South Africa.

Resources are being returned to the commonwealth, the People.

After another US inspired coup thise rich could get it back I imagine.

check out Oliver Stones South Of The Border.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
9. Like what happened in Zimbabwe.
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 02:25 PM
Jun 2016

Productive land was stolen from the farmers there, and given to Mugabe's people. Now the country can barely feed itself. But, yay. It's owned by the People.

 

DemMomma4Sanders

(274 posts)
10. Yes....well what happens after land is returned to the peasants?
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 02:28 AM
Jun 2016

Does the technology that allows capitalist socities to feed people, to the point of obesity on the government dole, suddenly make its way into the newly liberated african farmlands?

Nope....nope, nah. Because they're poor, and they can't afford to be self sufficient. And wetsern capitalist industries fund terrorist military goons to decimate LIBERATED villages as soon as they begin to support themselves without LOANS or predatory treaties.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
11. Because people generally get pissed off when you steal from them.
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 02:43 AM
Jun 2016

Won't donate to the cause, and won't help you use what you just stole. They will take their ball and go home, with a "and I hope you choke on it" thrown over their shoulder.That's just human nature. If someone mugs me, I'm not going to give them the PIN on my ATM card, or tell them about the $20 I keep in my shoe for emergencies.

 

DemMomma4Sanders

(274 posts)
12. Stole?
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:04 AM
Jun 2016

Colonists allocated this. It was never theirs to begin with.

Of course most people disconnected from the atrocities, especially if they've hostorically benefited from them, aren't going to care.

Why would they....its not like goons hired by private paramilitaries were gunning down their children!

EX500rider

(10,518 posts)
15. "capitalist industries fund terrorist military goons to decimate LIBERATED villages"
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:55 PM
Jun 2016

Gee, I'd love to see a reputable news link for a "liberated village" being decimated by "western capitalist industries terrorist military goons" because they became self-sufficient.....in Zimbabwe or Venezuela...

But I won't hold my breath....lol

EX500rider

(10,518 posts)
17. I know what the School of Americas is...
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:08 AM
Jun 2016
The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHINSEC), formerly known as the US Army School of the Americas, is a United States Department of Defense Institute located at Fort Benning near Columbus, Georgia, that provides military training to government personnel in US-allied Latin American nations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation
 

7962

(11,841 posts)
7. Seizing ALL assets can hardly be equated with simple "taxation"
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:59 AM
Jun 2016

We pay taxes here. The govt doesnt take over everything we own

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
13. The graft existed under Chavez.
Sat Jun 4, 2016, 03:09 AM
Jun 2016

Chavez benefitted from windfall oil prices. Chavez blamed himself for the creation of the "boligarchs." Very very rich billionaires who ran the logistics behind the mighty socialism. What they should've done, from the start, is redistributed the money directly to the people through local coop unions, and encouraged people to start their own businesses, offering grants for infrastructure building and incentivizing Venezuelan workers.

What happened, instead, was they brought in Chinese workers, Cuban workers, and let the country go on an unsustainable path. Put in price controls, inhibit production through crony deals, close factories as an excuse, and you see what you get.

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