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Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:10 PM

Judge blocks Seattle from revealing locations of FBI’s hidden cameras on utility poles

Source: Seattle Times

A federal judge has issued a temporary restraining order preventing Seattle City Light from disclosing the location of FBI cameras and other surveillance equipment hidden on some of the city’s utility poles.

U.S. District Judge Richard Jones said in a written order Monday that he reviewed classified material before issuing the order, finding that the bureau could be “irreparably injured” if the information is released. Turning over the information could damage national security or “harm important federal law enforcement operational interests as well as the personal privacy of innocent third parties.”

Federal prosecutors filed a complaint Monday in U.S. District Court asking that City Light be barred from turning over the information in response to a state public- disclosure request filed by Phil Mocek, a founding member of the Center for Open Policing, which has sued a number of public agencies over access to information.

According to the complaint, filed by the U.S. Attorney’s Office, the FBI claims it has “already been injured by the city’s unauthorized” disclosure of the existence of the cameras to KIRO-TV in November in response to a public-disclosure request.

Read more: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/judge-blocks-seattle-city-light-from-disclosing-locations-of-fbi-surveillance-cameras/



Crazy times.

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Reply Judge blocks Seattle from revealing locations of FBI’s hidden cameras on utility poles (Original post)
NWCorona Jun 2016 OP
villager Jun 2016 #1
KamaAina Jun 2016 #3
Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #2
phazed0 Jun 2016 #4
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #5
villager Jun 2016 #6
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #7
NWCorona Jun 2016 #10
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #13
NWCorona Jun 2016 #17
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #23
NWCorona Jun 2016 #25
villager Jun 2016 #12
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #14
villager Jun 2016 #19
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #26
villager Jun 2016 #30
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #39
villager Jun 2016 #40
phazed0 Jun 2016 #8
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #11
phazed0 Jun 2016 #16
villager Jun 2016 #20
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #27
villager Jun 2016 #32
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #37
villager Jun 2016 #38
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #41
NWCorona Jun 2016 #22
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #29
NWCorona Jun 2016 #34
NWCorona Jun 2016 #9
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #15
NWCorona Jun 2016 #18
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #24
beardown Jun 2016 #21
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #31
pnwmom Jun 2016 #28
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #33
randome Jun 2016 #43
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #44
Javaman Jun 2016 #35
ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #36
red dog 1 Jun 2016 #42

Response to NWCorona (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:12 PM

1. Then the information needs to be leaked. nt

 

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:13 PM

3. Anonymous, you know what to do!

 

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Response to NWCorona (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:12 PM

2. Welcome to 1984!!

 

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Response to NWCorona (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:13 PM

4. Meanwhile, Obama was on TV telling us...

 

about how Donald is crazy for wanting to spy on Muslims.. yet he's doing it to everyone. I guess there is something to say about not discriminating.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/politics/obama-pushes-back-against-criticism-over-terrorism-rhetoric/index.html (Video, 3:55 into it)

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Response to NWCorona (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:18 PM

5. This is settled law ...

 

when out in public, one has no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding where one is and/or what one is doing.

BTW, do you know how the majority of missing children/persons are found?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:19 PM

6. Of course you'd say that. nt

 

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Response to villager (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:24 PM

7. Of course, I would ... It's the lawyer that remains in me.

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:27 PM

10. So you are a lawyer?

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:33 PM

13. I was a lawyer ... I let my ticket expire more about a decade ago ...

 

as my career took me in a different, and more enjoyable, direction.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:38 PM

17. I can understand that.

Congratulations on the positive career change. Few are willing to make that leap. Especially considering the investments made towards education in one's chosen field.

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:47 PM

23. My switch was relatively easy ...

 

My lawyerly work provided me a skill set and level of expertise that allowed for a smooth transition AND ... I found myself, hating lawyers AND the application (misapplication) of the law.

And having worked mostly for non-profits and the government ... my switch, also, meant little in lost wages.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:50 PM

25. I learned early on that lawyers who try to stay ethical end up broke.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:32 PM

12. Yes, all kinds of ideologies have their lawyers. nt

 

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Response to villager (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:34 PM

14. True ... including paranoia.

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:40 PM

19. and center-right apologists for government overreach. nt

 

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Response to villager (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:51 PM

26. I am of the Center-Left, thank you.

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:58 PM

30. and apparently in a humorous mood, too. Do you specialize in privacy right case law, btw?

 

Or did you, since you're not lawyering anymore?

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Response to villager (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:32 PM

39. No. Privacy Rights was not my area of specialty ...

 

though I did follow lines of cases out of interest.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #39)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:32 PM

40. right. nt

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:25 PM

8. So if Trump becomes president, your OK will mass surveillance by Gov't?

 

I think the whole idea is that these tools can easily be turned against us by the like of a Donald Trump or similar.

As far as missing children, persons are found, according to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, it would suggest that FBI surveillance camera's have diddly squat to do with anything, just good 'ol detective work and following leads, talking with people.
http://www.missingkids.com/Missing/Success
http://www.missingkids.com/amber/success

No, no, most people are recovered by contacting the communities and employing the power of the people...

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Response to phazed0 (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:31 PM

11. Actually, I don't, and won't, spend much time worrying about it. ...

 

And regarding your missing child/persons comment, you clearly know nothing about missing persons investigations ... if cameras are available, they are the first stop for the investigators.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:35 PM

16. Cool, let's see your link to prove

 

that "the majority of missing children/persons are found" by using FBI surveillance cameras in Seattle, or similar. Post up, should be easy if true.

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Response to phazed0 (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:41 PM

20. As a lawyer, he should have the "evidence," right?

 

One might think.

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Response to phazed0 (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:53 PM

27. I don't have internet links; but, I do have real life experience ...

 

working with cops.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:59 PM

32. anecdotal "evidence" then. nt

 

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Response to villager (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:29 PM

37. Yes. And what are you basing your opinion on ...

 

it's neither life experience nor case law, nor anything beyond, "I think ..."

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #37)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:31 PM

38. well, of course, like everything else here, that's your opinion

 

...since you have no idea who I am, what my background is, etc.

And since you have no particular expertise in privacy law.

You are simply a conservative poster with their own opinion on the subject.

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Response to villager (Reply #38)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:33 PM

41. okay.

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:43 PM

22. But the issue I have is what proof do we have that these cameras will be made available

There's documented cases where the FBI didn’t pursue cases or share info because the means would be open to discovery.

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:57 PM

29. This is true ...

 

but, how it typically works is L/E views the images, identifying relevant people and vehicles ... and then, they follow up with the identified people, without disclosing how they knew they were there.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:03 PM

34. Agreed!

But it should be noted that I live in Seattle and there's WSDOT cameras all over the place on our roads.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:26 PM

9. Are you saying the public doesn't have a right to know?

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:34 PM

15. Yes.

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:39 PM

18. That's where we disagree

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:50 PM

24. As I said ...

 

We have no reasonable expectation of privacy when out in public.

And, it is best that we conduct ourselves in a manner, conscious of that reality.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:41 PM

21. So is there a difference between being observed in public and recorded in public?

I don't view being seen in public the same as being filmed and recorded in public.

The latter provides a major capability for abuse and control. The former, not so much.

With recorded media, you can zoom in to see things like cell phone or open wallet type detail. Similar to a guy standing on a second floor balcony in a business district using binoculars to view people as they pay their lunch bill or use their cell phone.

With all of the private cameras on businesses and facilities now, it's almost a mute point.

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Response to beardown (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:59 PM

31. Now here we agree ...

 

With all of the private cameras on businesses and facilities now, it's almost a mute point.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:57 PM

28. I want to know. How are the majority of missing children/persons found?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:00 PM

33. By, first, viewing the available surveillance video ...

 

to establish who was around and what was happening at the last known location.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 03:10 PM

43. Isn't that how they identified the Boston bombers?

 

Jesus, it doesn't matter if one is an expert in privacy law or not, it seems intuitively obvious to me that surveillance cameras are the first thing to check.

And anyone who has a smidgen of experience in law trumps most everyone else on this board.

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Response to randome (Reply #43)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 03:56 PM

44. Shhh ... How they identified the Boston Bombers is to not be discussed ...

 

because mass surveillance/privacy rights ... or something.

And anyone who has a smidgen of experience in law trumps most everyone else on this board.


Real life experience only counts if I agree with you; otherwise, my opinion on Theoretical Physics, garnered from watching every episode of Big Bang Theory, puts my opinion on par with that of Stephen Hawking.

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Response to NWCorona (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:09 PM

35. fascism with a smiley face. nt

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Response to NWCorona (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:22 PM

36. Not sure "hidden" is an accurate description.

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Response to NWCorona (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 02:51 PM

42. "The FBI made fake companies so it could fly spy planes over U.S. cities"

http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704823/fbi-made-fake-companies-spy-planes

(From the June 2, 2015 article:linked above)
"The FBI has used at least 13 shell companies to conceal a fleet of surveillance planes that recently flew over more than 30 cities in 11 states, according to an Associated Press investigation published today.
According to the AP's report, the low-flying planes are equipped with video, and operate without a warrant - although the government says they're for specific investigations.
The AP traced the companies - with names like FVX Research and KQM Aviation - that were used to keep the fleet of at least 50 planes under wraps.
Many of the companies' documents were signed by a 'Robert Lindley', but the government would not confirm to the AP whether that was a government employee."

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