Teen who urged suicide via text will stand trial, court rules

[Calista241]

Source: CBS News

A teenage Massachusetts girl who sent her boyfriend dozens of text messages encouraging him to take his own life and who allegedly told him to "get back in" a truck filled with carbon monoxide fumes must stand trial for involuntary manslaughter, the state's highest court ruled Friday.

The Supreme Judicial Court ruled Friday that a grand jury had probable cause to indict Michelle Carter, then 17, in the 2014 death of Conrad Roy III, 18.

Carter's lawyer had argued that her texts were free speech protected by the First Amendment and did not cause Roy to kill himself.

But the court, in a strongly worded decision, said the grand jury heard evidence suggesting that Carter engaged in a "systematic campaign of coercion" that targeted Roy's insecurities and that her instruction to "get back in" his truck in the final moments of his life was a "direct, causal link" to his death.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/suicide-text-conrad-roy-michelle-carter-trial-court-rules/

[Initech]

1. I hope this POS gets the maximum allowable sentence.

[840high]

28. ...!100++++

[ailsagirl]

2. The umbrella of the First Amendment gets larger and larger

I'm sure that's what our Founding Fathers had in mind

(irony)

[SCantiGOP]

7. I don't know if I would find her guilty or not

But this sure as hell is not a First Amendment case.

I'm not being serious now, but sometimes I think the punishment they gave the Nazi at the end of Inglorious Basterds (they had to let him go but they first carved a swastika into his forehead) might be a good remedy in some cases. How about a tattoo on her forehead:

When I was 17 I encouraged my boyfriend to commit suicide

[ailsagirl]

8. I'm just shaking my head in angst and sorrow

These headlines are like something out of a nightmare or a horror movie



What the hell is going on??

[SCantiGOP]

9. mean people are usually cowards

But the internet let's the assholes hide and do things they would never do face to face.

[ailsagirl]

11. Sometimes I wish the internet didn't exist n/t

[Xipe Totec]

32. You and John Connor. nt

[greiner3]

22. So when Fox News or Hannity urge

Violence and hatred.

And the end result is a huge upswing of violence and hatred, is there a difference Well, I'd say one major one; Fox has a huge number of attorneys saying what line they can't cross. This woman is plain crazy and stupid. What a terrible combo

[Dustlawyer]

24. For the same reason that you cannot yell "fire" in a crowded theater as a joke, you

cannot encourage illegal and deadly acts.

[IronLionZion]

3. Sounds like a real piece of work

and she would have gotten away with it if she didn't use text messages. If she had been on a voice call she might have gotten away with no evidence.

What kind of person encourages suicide instead of calling the authorities for help. Any real friend/girlfriend would have found out where he was and then called 911 to send people to stop him. And then encourage him to get supervised medical treatment for depression.

Maybe it's not too late to charge Courtney Love for driving Kurt Cobain to suicide too?

[Photographer]

4. OMFG! What a horrific little piece of shit this girl must be.

I'm hoping she ends up doing time just to send a message to others that actions such as these will not be tolerated in this society.

[ailsagirl]

33. Maybe she's mental

Not by the legal definition, of course, but by any other definition

There's obviously something radically wrong with her thinking

[Jerry442]

5. What a can of worms of a case.

I don't envy the jurors.

[treestar]

6. Awful as she must be, that should be some crime less than

manslaughter. Ultimately the decision was his.

[Jerry442]

10. Reckless endangerment, or depraved indifference maybe?

Graduate of "Law and Order" lecture series here.

[treestar]

12. Yes maybe some variation of menacing

where the person does not actually do anything but threatens credibly. I mean that's an awful thing to say to someone. But then you haven't killed them. Yet it seems that it should be beyond the line of what we tolerate for free speech in this society.

Or take the example of someone with terminal disease considering it - most people near them would perhaps be supportive in the end, but initially be against it. But imagine someone who would encourage it even then. You know, argue less pain. Still seems awful.

Would make an interesting L&O plot - they tend to rip from the headlines too.

[passiveporcupine]

16. the difference between a terminal disease and depression are pretty obvious

Lots of people live with depression, but take meds or get counseling (or even get hospitalized) when it gets bad. That doesn't mean they haven't or won't try suicide at some point. Most suicides (at least first attempts) fail, I think, unless a gun is involved, or some other fool proof method.

I have a feeling this girl may have mental issues herself to be so callous about the life or death of someone she supposedly cares for.

I firmly believe people have the right to die with dignity, and suffering from unending depression might qualify for that, but only after everything possible has been tried to remedy that situation. And with a young kid, you know that hasn't happened. I have suffered with depression for over 25 years, and there are times I really wish I wasn't here any more, so I understand his position of being in pain and still being afraid to commit suicide. That is a very vulnerable time and her supporting him to do it was negligence if not worse. He needed someone to be talking him out of it, not into it.

I do hold her responsible for this, and no...it's not about the first amendment...it's about her intent and actions, not just what she said.

So...I hope if she also needs help, they get it for her...but if this was just because she is a cruel messed up young person, then please hold her accountable and let her get the punishment she deserves for helping to end a young life.

[treestar]

18. It might be possible to prove

He wouldn't have done it without her prodding - he had gotten out of the car. Normal people would have encouraged him to stay out of it at that point. It's hard to wrap one's head around doing what she did - it's cruel enough that you want to estimate she was perhaps a potential serial killer - you know, find out if she treats animals badly too or those other indicators. It's an interesting point about what might be wrong with her. Getting attention for losing her friend, maybe, which would make her pretty psychotic.

[OrwellwasRight]

44. There is something wrong with her.

It's called evil. It needs to be punished, not excused.

[rocktivity]

30. She might be able to plea down to lesser charge

Last edited Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:29 PM - Edit history (4)

But if it can be proven that she sent those texts knowing he was that psychologically vulnerable, then she did "negligently or recklessly engage in behavior" that she "knew or should have known could result in death."


rocktivity

[treestar]

36. Or even intentionally

What an awful thing to do. Hope there is cause for a psychological work-up of her.

[rocktivity]

39. Well, a conscious intent to kill is second degree murder

But if she flunks her psychological work-up, maybe they can plead that she's as unbalanced as he was...


rocktivity

[yardwork]

38. I don't know... She engaged in a lengthy campaign of coercion.

[bucolic_frolic]

13. Kids like this

are, I think, raised in a culture of clawing, backstabbing, resentment, and
just plain nastiness. They enjoy the sense of power, it makes them
feel good, and feel better than others. Perhaps they also dislike themselves
and project it onto others.

Young or not, underage or not, they deserve the maximum punishment, IMHO.

[wallyworld2]

14. I wonder

If she isn't a young church going republican

[Hoppy]

25. You're just jealous you're not a special snowflake.

[wallyworld2]

31. I

haz a sad

[askeptic]

15. so if bystanders yell "Jump!" to someone on a roof

would they be charged with involuntary manslaughter? As mean and despicable as her behavior was, I have trouble blaming her for the actions of another (she - a child - influenced an adult and is responsible for his actions?)

[passiveporcupine]

17. She was a year younger than him. Jeeze.

And yes, a person about to jump off a building is not in their right mind...they are under the intense affects of serious depression or they would not be there. Anyone encouraging them to end their life should be held accountable.

Maybe not for murder, but manslaughter.

[Urchin]

21. Who are you

to judge for them?

What if the building were on fire, and their choice is to jump or burn?

[treestar]

37. It's not judging, it's humane to want to help people

Normal psychological situation for people is to want to stop someone from killing themselves and seek treatment for depression. Not to stand there doing nothing or worse yet, to yell "Jump." And you 911 scenario is entirely different and nobody normal would yell "jump." The 911 victims IMO were not suicides, they were victims of homicide even if they jumped.

[passiveporcupine]

40. We are discussing suicide, not avoiding a fire

but you knew that.

[treestar]

20. +1

That's why I have trouble with it, but then, people who would yell "jump" are assholes. Of an astounding order.

[lostnfound]

26. Yeah it's a weird case

I try to remember my own mindset at 17, though, and I'm pretty sure it never involved wanting anyone ELSE to die.
What a weird case and a weird girl.
It's hard to understand the mindset.
But what crime did she commit?
Maybe akin to yelling "fire!" in a crowded movie theatre? Only worse.

[Urchin]

19. What does this mean

for bystanders when they yell "Jump!"

And what happens if the person who commits suicide does so because euthanasia is not legal in their state?

And why should suicide or assisted suicide be against the law? Shouldn't our lives be our natural right to live or to end?

[LiberalFighter]

23. That First Amendment crap better not fly. Otherwise it will open a can of worms.

Especially with regards to the 2nd.

[Chasstev365]

27. Her complete remorseless attitude is what's most chilling

[rocktivity]

29. Carter's attorney must be an alumnus of the Crackerjack Box School of Law.

Last edited Sat Jul 2, 2016, 11:49 AM - Edit history (2)

The principle of "free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater" has been around for nearly a century.


rocktivity

[jmowreader]

34. If this is what she does to her own boyfriend...

I shudder to think of what she does to the people she doesn't like.

[King_Klonopin]

35. I don't think she likes anybody, sadly -- including herself.

All the references to "yelling fire", free speech, etc. are irrelevant.

She was fully aware that her boyfriend was in the act of committing suicide.
She was in contact with him during this act, communicating by text messages.
She encouraged him to kill himself, rather than discourage him.
She could have called 911 to rescue him, but choose not to do so.
She explicitly expressed she wanted him to die.
She was an accessory to his suicide -- not completely to blame, but complicit
in the death (by suicide) of another person.


What she said (i.e. her speech) isn't the issue; what she did and did not do
are at the heart of the matter here. Very chilling and cruel, indeed.

[OrwellwasRight]

45. And not just on the day of the event.

She engaged in a months long campaign to convince him to "stop threatening" and actually kill himself.

[King_Klonopin]

46. Psychologically speaking, it may be a case of suicide by proxy.

she got him to do the act she wishes to do herself. Still, quite twisted.

[Odin2005]

41. She sounds like a psychopath.

[rocktivity]

42. Here are the texts

http://deadstate.org/here-are-the-disturbing-texts-from-michelle-carter-pressuring-her-boyfriend-to-commit-suicide/


rocktivity

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

43. Disgusting

She goads him into it. Fucking little.....grrrr