Trump-Taiwan call: China lodges protest

Trump's Taiwan phone call preceded by hotel development inquiry

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/03/trumps-taiwan-phone-call-preceded-by-hotel-development-inquiry?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

JAYSUS

This is what happens when you elect somebody that is an idiot that surrounds himself with idiots. I wonder what his crack team of expert foreign policy exper....... oh yeeeaaaa nevermind. I wonder if Nikki Haley still wants that U.N gig. If I was the current American ambassador I'd answer any questions about Trump nonsense with a slip of paper with Haley's work number on it.

Not even one month and he's caused a "documented" international incident. I wonder how many unofficial ones he's caused with his flippant calls, tweets, trump tower summons, and inability to not have frigging Ivanka at every meeting. I wonder what other world leaders think about the strangeness of that whole thing. Trump is going to need to adjust his slogan to something more appropriate like Make America a Laughing Stock

President Obama and SOS John Kerry need not rescue him now. We need to stop rescuing the GOP.

Operative word here is OFFICIAL. A table -- with the Chinese, Taiwonese, and the US working over what the issues are, how to get around them, what limits should be imposed on which parties, etc.

Not some orange guy calling up Taiwon on a whim while he's fiddling with his phone while taking a dump. This isn't how international affairs are conducted.

THEY called him while he was taking a dump.

Whatever the scenario, Trump was taking a dump

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2016/12/03/2003660473

mostly people wanting to sell me something, or otherwise extract money from me. That's why caller id exists - and for people at Trump's level, assistants to screen callers and make sure the boss only gets the calls he wants. Trump is thinking more about a potential Trump Taipei than he is about the people of the country he's going to swear to defend and protect.

(I got a call from Trump last spring! I didn't pick it up - cause I know how to use caller id - but he left a message. He wanted me to give him money for his "self-funded" campaign. To a true scammer, every small donation counts, I guess.)

To them it would be admitting that Taiwan actually exists on its own. Which the rest of the world already knows

Translation: "We all know the president-in-waiting is vulnerably vain, incompetent, and completely out of his depth. How unsportsmanlike not to wait till he's actually in office to take advantage of that."

incompetence and personal greed.

So Taiwan's leader calls trump. Big deal. You dont own them and havent for decades. Its time you understand it. They're NOT coming back. I'm not defending trump, screw him, i'm just tired of China acting like a damn child who didnt get their way. They're the ones who keep thumbing their nose at UN resolutions regarding them, so tough shit

It seems like many. The more legitimized Taiwan becomes the more China might feel empowered to use military force.

They thrive on their own as a country. Their own industry, military etc. And they will continue to do so.

We have much more important bones to pick with China than recognition of Taiwan.

Is THIS the fight that China wants to expend its political capital on?

In some ways, I can view this as a good move. We can basically use this as leverage with very little political cost. There's a lot of things that we SHOULD be pushing China on (South China Sea expansion, trade). We can potentially drop Taiwan relations in exchange for an agreement to abide by court decisions that the islands that China is militarizing aren't theirs.

Realistically, we already recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation - we trade with them in their currency, sell them billions in weapons, and have pledged to protect them.

There are so many things wrong with the potential Trump administration that this isn't even on my "danger radar".

Now they feel even more vulnerable and think their nationhood has been disrespected.

Let's assume that Trump didn't do this, and we want to make a deal to get China out of the South China Sea. A "deal" usually implies that we do something for them in exchange for them doing something. What concession would you be willing to give to China in exchange for their abandoning the islands?

We now have a concession we can make that costs us absolutely nothing.

Carter signed it in 1979. China does not see us abiding by our agreement as it getting something.

there have been 5 presidents since that agreement was signed. It's been 37 years. Things change. Surely china didn't think we'd go forever without making some change, right? I mean, if China decided it would use force to bring their "wayward province" back into line, China doesn't actually think we'd be there just to reestablish the status quo, right? We do have a defense treaty with them. If China fired the first shot, it would probably start Taiwan's war of independence and/or WWIII.
Right now, less than 10% of Taiwanese citizens want reunification. What do you say for the other 90%? Why don't you question why so many people out of a population of over 23 million people don't want to be part of China?
Tell me exactly what China has to offer Taiwan, except for tyranny. "Well, they own Taiwan" isn't a reason to dispute independence.

It costs us nothing to keep our relationship with Taiwan unofficial, and it makes China happy that we are showing them respect by acknowledging they are the one and only China.

If China feels disrespected and vulnerable, it will accelerate its South China Sea expansion. And they will take other steps we won't like.

Our One China policy may seem like a silly dance, but it is in our national interest.

China's expansion in the area. I mean, wouldn't you? They're expanding their territory in the Spratley's and you feel those 2000 missiles that China is rumored to have pointing at you. So the president of Taiwan wants to call the President-elect to make sure the United States is still serious about Taiwan's continued defense. I mean, if China feels vulnerable, imagine how Taiwan feels.

But as far as respect goes, who gives a crap? They are a world power with 1.3 billion citizens. They need to put on their big boy pants and understand not everyone agrees with them or respects them. I mean, if the US acted like china does, we'd be threatening to bomb Russia for harboring Snowden.
I hope the US tells China where to stick their objections.

And don't forget that the issue isn't the content of the conversation. "we're going to help you declare 100% independence so China can't ever take you over again." No, the objection is that there is ANY contact whatsoever between Taiwan and Trump. China complains every time the US hosts anyone they object to.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/15/482200079/dalai-lama-meets-with-president-obama-china-objects

And like an idiot, he took the call instead of his staff just thanking Taiwan's President for the call.

Taiwan is no doubt, like everyone, nervous about the South China Sea. But that is not why they called. And by Trump taking that call, he certainly did not assuage Taiwan's or anyone else's nervousness. Indeed, it made it worse.

You really are trying too hard.

Trump took the call?
Honestly... China needs to get over itself.

Taiwan continues to call itself the Republic of China. By taking the President of Taiwan's call, Trump legitimized that claim, by speaking to her in her capacity as President of the Republic of China, which disrespects the actual China.

Just throwing up our arms and telling countries to "get over themselves" is not in our national interest. We have to pick our battles. And they should be battles that we need to fight. We do not need to fight this battle.

to keep the status quo, so China can't use military force to assert their claims on the island. But a phone call is beyond the pale. Ok.

Do you think Obama was wrong to host the Dalai Lama, over China's objections?

China considers official recognition of Tawain an attack on China's sovereignty. It is a big deal. Why do it? Why pick that fight as opposed to all others out there? How is it in our national interest?

If Taiwan doesn't want to be a part of China, and if Taiwan wants to talk to the president-elect, I don't have a problem with it.
Since Trump isn't the president until January 20th, he's still a private citizen.
And, it's not a fight. I'm not suggesting anyone go to war. It's a phone call. If China considers it an attack on it's sovereignty, that's on them. I don't give a crap. If they're touchy enough about it to go to war, they have an awful inferiority complex. They are easily threatened, and lash out with violence anytime. Remember how they murdered all of those students in 1989? I hate totalitarians.
Taiwan hasn't been controlled by mainland China in nearly 70 years. The Taiwanese don't want that to change.

Unlike our President-elect.

Taiwan has all of this stuff independent of China. What could China possibly offer them that they or an ally can't do themselves? So if the answer to that is "nothing", then China just wants Taiwan under their thumb for no actual reason. This is where the phrase 'consent of the governed' would mean something.

we have let China dictate for decades how we deal with Taiwan. If China doesn't like it, tough. They need our markets for their cheap garbage.

I believe the President of Taiwan who says Trump's people arranged the call of over the president elect who says they called.

I now believe foreign leaders over our next president.

By the way, I intend to spell president and congress without capital letters until they show they deserve the respect. I do not expect that for four years...I do have hope congress might upgrade in two years, we will see. (I do realize they do not know or care and Trump would not even understand but it makes me feel better).

If your enemy is destroying themselves, I wise person doesn't intervene. It's going to be ugly and painful for many in this country, but I think the only way to rid us of conservo-nut politics, is to let them so profoundly discredit themselves that they don't see a Rethuglican President or House / Sentate majority for the next 20+ years, if ever again. It ain't going to be a happy time for anyone, but I think it's the only way to rid ourselves of this bullshit, alternate universe politics that currently infects so many Americans.

China has a lot on their plate, lots of countries to rule. IMO, all Chinas small neighbor countries are going down and Japan will be the new Chinese 'border country'

China already knows the world wont stand for an invasion of Taiwan; not to mention we have an agreement to protect them.

what point are you trying to make?? Burma is now Myanmar. The Burmese are still there too

When are they going to finally reach the cliff they have been marching towards?

...and fuck China. They both sound and act like petulant children.

And when China urges US "to cautiously, properly handle Taiwan issue to avoid unnecessary disturbance to Sino-US relations" they are demanding we toe the line on a One China policy.

It may sound silly, but it is a diplomatic dance that serves our national interests.

Trump only cares about his personal financial interests, namely the hotels he wants to build in Taiwan.

He is a g-d buffoon. Going out of his way to make waves to better validate his sense of importance and uniqueness.