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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:05 AM May 2018

David Goodall ends his life at 104 with a final powerful statement on euthanasia

Source: ABC News




By Charlotte Hamlyn in Basel, Switzerland, and Briana Shepherd

Posted about 2 hours ago

David Goodall has fulfilled his final wish and taken his life through assisted suicide in a Swiss clinic, in a powerful statement in favour of voluntary euthanasia.

The story of the 104-year-old Perth academic, who is one of the first Australians to undertake the procedure due to old age rather than a terminal illness, has attracted international headlines and further inflamed a highly divisive debate.

His supporters applauded his decision to take charge of his fate after declaring his life was no longer worth living.

But critics warned his decision to end his life solely on the grounds of old age set a dangerous precedent

Read more: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-10/david-goodall-ends-life-in-a-powerful-statement-on-euthanasia/9742528

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David Goodall ends his life at 104 with a final powerful statement on euthanasia (Original Post) DonViejo May 2018 OP
To those whining about this: Le Gaucher May 2018 #1
Shame on them for having their own opinions Fullduplexxx May 2018 #2
I have no problem if they keep their opinions to themselves. Le Gaucher May 2018 #4
+1000 nt Javaman May 2018 #9
no pun intended? yurbud May 2018 #24
Yes, lots of people have opinions on what others should or shouldn't do with their own lives. Demit May 2018 #10
The 1st a is a double edged sword but frankly i dont care if someone wants an early out Fullduplexxx May 2018 #11
If the opinion is about someone else's choice meadowlander May 2018 #18
Well, sure metalbot May 2018 #34
It's not about "feeling bad". It's about trying to make someone else's choice for them. meadowlander May 2018 #35
Of course you should not feel bad for feeling liberalhistorian May 2018 #44
They are perfectly free to have their liberalhistorian May 2018 #43
Whos the whiner here - if you cant handle discourse /back & forth on profound cultural & poltical Kashkakat v.2.0 May 2018 #6
This was my point but some are having a hard time understanding Fullduplexxx May 2018 #12
I think given the current retirement savings rate euthanasia should be Le Gaucher May 2018 #3
I had a meeting with some financial advisors last month reflection May 2018 #29
I have a very simple portfolio for now .all my 401k is in index funds. Le Gaucher May 2018 #30
Very interesting. I love the idea. reflection May 2018 #32
"should" is not directed at anyone else right? treestar May 2018 #42
My Mother is nearly 86 LittleGirl May 2018 #5
I'm so sorry Beaverhausen May 2018 #14
Thank you, she did piece work at a factory LittleGirl May 2018 #17
so you'd rather have her suffer until she dies than be "addicted?" when you are in her place TheFrenchRazor May 2018 #25
I'm not going to bother LittleGirl May 2018 #26
Wishing dear mom, her companion & family, and you peace & harmony thru this. n/t DemSoc May 2018 #20
Thank you kindly! eom LittleGirl May 2018 #22
AS IS often the case, the devil is in the details - right to end ones one life vs right to continue Kashkakat v.2.0 May 2018 #7
Indeed. Duppers May 2018 #23
I applaud David Goodall. IMHO, my life is my most precious possession, NCjack May 2018 #8
Yes, you get to have your own opinion about if assisted suicide is ok. You even get to express that 3Hotdogs May 2018 #13
What does Jeebus have to do with anything!? If this is to be provided as a service then there Kashkakat v.2.0 May 2018 #15
Jesus is the main reason politicians use to not legalize physician assisted suicide. 3Hotdogs May 2018 #16
ah yes i see - thk u for clarification - aside from that theres not a lot of consensus about how Kashkakat v.2.0 May 2018 #19
Several states have approved ass't. suicide. 3Hotdogs May 2018 #21
There are also the physicians themselves. Jedi Guy May 2018 #28
What happens when the government tells you that you Drahthaardogs May 2018 #33
All I know is my dad wanted to die laying on the beach listening to the waves... moriah May 2018 #36
That doesn't have anything to do with my point Drahthaardogs May 2018 #38
And you're using slippery slope to argue euthanasia has no place. moriah May 2018 #40
Or it is just social pressure treestar May 2018 #41
In other words, you cannot decide to end your own life but the state can. dameatball May 2018 #27
For those who have/had pets crazycatlady May 2018 #31
No equivalency there - different relationship. Also one should not assume that a wish to be "taken" Kashkakat v.2.0 May 2018 #37
I'm glad that he had the choice and the means. There is no "cure" for old age... Hekate May 2018 #39
 

Le Gaucher

(1,547 posts)
4. I have no problem if they keep their opinions to themselves.
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:36 AM
May 2018

Don't give me grief if I want an assisted suicide.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
10. Yes, lots of people have opinions on what others should or shouldn't do with their own lives.
Thu May 10, 2018, 12:03 PM
May 2018

Lots of people want to make your life their business. To critics of assisted suicide I would say "If you don't like assisted suicide for old age, don't have one."

meadowlander

(4,358 posts)
18. If the opinion is about someone else's choice
Thu May 10, 2018, 06:05 PM
May 2018

about what to do with their own body then yes, shame on them.

metalbot

(1,058 posts)
34. Well, sure
Sun May 13, 2018, 09:46 PM
May 2018

Shame on me for wishing that people I know hadn't killed themselves. I should feel bad for feeling bad about their choice? I just want to make sure I'm following the train of thought appropriately...

I'd also argue that I would have a very strong opinion over whether a friend chose to shoot a lot of heroin, but then again, maybe it means I'm just an ant-choice not-a-very-good-friend?

meadowlander

(4,358 posts)
35. It's not about "feeling bad". It's about trying to make someone else's choice for them.
Mon May 14, 2018, 01:16 AM
May 2018

You can't. You can feel how you like about it (i.e. sad that you lost your friend, disappointed that they are shooting heroin, pissed off that they didn't say goodbye, etc.). You just shouldn't be able to legislate how someone else uses their body when it doesn't physically hurt anyone else. It's not your body. It's not your choice. And it sure as shit isn't the government's choice.

That's how boundaries work.

What's the alternative? Insisting that people live on in excruciating pain when life has lost all value to them just because other people would be sad if they died? That's certainly not something I would expect or insist on from anyone I loved.

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
44. Of course you should not feel bad for feeling
Mon May 14, 2018, 09:32 PM
May 2018

bad about their choice. Of course you're going to feel pain and grief over it. No one is saying that you shouldn't or that it's wrong to feel that way. What many of us are saying is that you don't have the right to make the actual choice for them, there's a big difference.

When one of my best friends chose to end her life her own way a few months ago rather than endure the last several months of terminal cancer, as the pain was getting too bad and too hard to control and the side effects of medicine worse than the pain, it was very difficult for those of us close to her. But we knew that she was the one who was suffering and she ultimately had the right to make that choice. I'm just glad she chose to share it with us beforehand so we had the chance to say our goodbyes. I hated losing her, but supported her right to make that choice. It certainly didn't mean that I didn't feel badly or feel grief over it, nor was it wrong to feel that way despite my supporting her choice.

When another family member, an in-law, chose to let his terminal cancer take its natural course rather than take advantage of his state's assisted suicide law, for which he would have assuredly qualified, we supported that, too, as that was also his right to make that choice. It also didn't mean that we didn't feel badly or feel grief over it.

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
43. They are perfectly free to have their
Mon May 14, 2018, 09:23 PM
May 2018

own opinions for their OWN LIVES. They have NO right to force those opinions on anyone else's lives, and make decisions for other lives based on their OWN opinions. See how they works?

They can make decisions regarding when and how, or, of course, even if, they will end their own lives, or not. They CANNOT and do NOT have the right, to make such decisions for anyone else. It's a very personal decision that only the person whose life it is has the right to make.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
6. Whos the whiner here - if you cant handle discourse /back & forth on profound cultural & poltical
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:23 AM
May 2018

issues then perhaps a public forum like this isnt for you?

 

Le Gaucher

(1,547 posts)
3. I think given the current retirement savings rate euthanasia should be
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:35 AM
May 2018

Part of one's retirement planning.

I keep worrying about not having enough to cover expenses in my old age.

Ideally, I would like to lead a good life ( healthy and travel a bit) and leave something over for my daughter ..

I would like to end my life the day I can't be sure of either and while I can still do both.

reflection

(6,286 posts)
29. I had a meeting with some financial advisors last month
Sat May 12, 2018, 07:56 PM
May 2018

Who were trying to woo me away from my current group (why I don't know, my portfolio is not that big). I came armed with a ton of questions, which put them off their scheduled routine, so they were a little irritated anyway. When it got to end of life planning and they were querying me about my plans, I said that my wife and I agreed that when we were ready we would "move" to the nearest legal place and go out on our own terms. Our living wills reflect this, and our kids are on board if we were ever both incapacitated, incompetent, or such. It's laid out very clearly and specifically, but I'll stay away from the details. No plan is foolproof, but all we can do is try and we drafted all the paperwork with the help of two family lawyers who deal in this.

The financial guys would not accept my plan, proceeded as if i had not said anything, and were very condescending about it when I refused to tailor my model to theirs in this aspect. I called the meeting, said nope, and blocked them both from my phone before I had hit the elevator.

 

Le Gaucher

(1,547 posts)
30. I have a very simple portfolio for now .all my 401k is in index funds.
Sat May 12, 2018, 08:38 PM
May 2018

My stocks is .. performance weighted top 3 S&P stocks (for the previous 12 months) .. This is basically a momentum play. I rebalance once every year.


You can backtest this strategy ..and you will be surprised how well this does even in horrible return years. In practice you need to have the stomach to not react to volatility.

I don't know your age .. but you can follow this pattern for your stocks.


reflection

(6,286 posts)
32. Very interesting. I love the idea.
Sat May 12, 2018, 09:48 PM
May 2018

Going to think on it. I'm just under 50, if trump and the corrupt KGOP don't drive the whole car into the ditch, I should have 20+ years of cycles to weather. I can still tolerate risk somewhat. Thank you for the idea. I'm going to look at some historic data based on the concept.

LittleGirl

(8,261 posts)
5. My Mother is nearly 86
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:54 AM
May 2018

and her body is so wracked with pain from RA and osteoarthritis that she can barely walk. She can't move without a walker. She got a debit card a couple of years ago because she can barely hold a pen to sign checks or write notes. In 2000 she fell in the street and shattered one of her ankles. They rebuilt it with plates and screws. The screws are working their way out of the bones and almost out of her skin. She takes pain killers every few hours and can only sleep with the aid of Abien. She has her non-funeral all planned and will be cremated. Given the choice, she would end it all in a heartbeat. The only thing keeping her alive is her companion that spends each day with her and then goes back to his apartment on the other side of the retirement home they live in.

Beaverhausen

(24,467 posts)
14. I'm so sorry
Thu May 10, 2018, 03:53 PM
May 2018

That's terrible. We really need to address the needs of those with chronic issues in a better way.

LittleGirl

(8,261 posts)
17. Thank you, she did piece work at a factory
Thu May 10, 2018, 05:42 PM
May 2018

for many years and believes everything the doctors tell her and won't question anything. She won't admit she's addicted to those pain killers but she is. She had shingles and got hooked then. I was shocked when she agreed to a pacemaker 18 months ago because she refuses to get her ankle fixed and they have warned her that if a screw pokes through the skin, she needs to go to the ER immediately. She won't let those doctors touch her now.

How we treat our citizens is shameful. How our healthcare is for-profit is almost as shameful as our slavery history.

Thank you for your kind words.

 

TheFrenchRazor

(2,116 posts)
25. so you'd rather have her suffer until she dies than be "addicted?" when you are in her place
Sat May 12, 2018, 05:08 PM
May 2018

if you prefer to be in non-stop agony (or kill yourself) rather than be "addicted," you are free to make that choice. given the health situation that you mentioned, i can't believe the issue of "addiction" even crosses your mind.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
7. AS IS often the case, the devil is in the details - right to end ones one life vs right to continue
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:30 AM
May 2018

ones life without societal pressure. That would be my concern - that other people (insurance cos or greedy relatives or what have you) not be able to step in and decide for me that my life is not worth living. Laws need to protect elderly while at the same time giving them (us) fullest autonomy to determine our own destiny.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
8. I applaud David Goodall. IMHO, my life is my most precious possession,
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:31 AM
May 2018

and I will end it when it pleases me to do so. That is not the business of anyone else.

3Hotdogs

(12,210 posts)
13. Yes, you get to have your own opinion about if assisted suicide is ok. You even get to express that
Thu May 10, 2018, 02:00 PM
May 2018

opinion. You can tell me why I shouldn't do it.

You don't get to use the gub'mint to tell me how to end my life on the basis that Jesus don't like it.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
15. What does Jeebus have to do with anything!? If this is to be provided as a service then there
Thu May 10, 2018, 04:47 PM
May 2018

dang well better be oversight, checks and balances to prevent abuses. Don't like it? Then you better start talking to your loved ones now and start lining up someone to help you pass when the time comes.... which is how its been done since time immemorial - diy, without a lot of fanfare.

FWIW, theres a lot of info on the internets about humane ways to diy - its good info to have to tuck away in one's brain, in case it should be needed some day.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
19. ah yes i see - thk u for clarification - aside from that theres not a lot of consensus about how
Thu May 10, 2018, 06:16 PM
May 2018

it would be done.

Jedi Guy

(3,171 posts)
28. There are also the physicians themselves.
Sat May 12, 2018, 06:14 PM
May 2018

Some physicians feel that assisted suicide runs counter to the oaths they took to preserve and protect life. Some of them object for religious reasons, yes. Others don't think that killing someone, even at their request, falls under the definition of "healer." It depends on how they interpret "First, do no harm."

I think assisted suicide is a lot like abortion, since it's all about bodily autonomy and personal choice. To my way of thinking, if a person is in their right mind and wishes to die, then that's their choice. Humane options should be made available.

At the same time, physicians who don't wish to perform the procedure shouldn't be required to do so, as that's their choice. Both choices should be respected.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
33. What happens when the government tells you that you
Sun May 13, 2018, 07:55 PM
May 2018

MUST die?

If assisted suicide becomes easy, how long before the states and insurance companies tell you that they will gladly pay for your death, but not a penny more to your life?

Watch it happen. The rich will afford extravagant care, the rest will be expected to die. It's how it works here. If you haven't figured that out by now, you're not paying attention.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
36. All I know is my dad wanted to die laying on the beach listening to the waves...
Mon May 14, 2018, 10:58 AM
May 2018

... after having smoked a final joint, taken the medicine, and laid down to sleep, than to die the way he did. With tubes delivering pain meds and sedatives, but not enough to keep him from writhing and coughing.

And if I'd had an injection that would have ended his suffering in that final week in hospice when nothing coherent was coming out of his mouth, only obvious pain, I would have used it.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
38. That doesn't have anything to do with my point
Mon May 14, 2018, 01:27 PM
May 2018

Which is very relevant and pretty damned scary. Remember you are dealing with Republican assholes. Expect the worst because that's what you will get.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
41. Or it is just social pressure
Mon May 14, 2018, 08:07 PM
May 2018

Even if there are no laws, people can create this social pressure. A lot of people have this idea and talk of choice, but do they really respect anyone who does not want to?

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
31. For those who have/had pets
Sat May 12, 2018, 09:15 PM
May 2018

When we see that a beloved pet is getting old and is suffering, we make the (heartbreaking) decision to make one last trip to the vet's office. What would happen if we treat our elderly the same way we treat our pets?

With my cat, it was heartbreaking and a tough decision but it was ultimately the right thing to do and humane. On the other hand, I watched my grandmother in a nursing home for 4 years. In the last year, she had multiple falls, and the policy was to give her fentanyl (powerful opioid responsible for Prince's death) and drug her. Everytime I saw her, she asked when God was going to take her (she was the last standing in her social circle).

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
37. No equivalency there - different relationship. Also one should not assume that a wish to be "taken"
Mon May 14, 2018, 01:06 PM
May 2018

is necessarily a request for someone to actively help her take her own life. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - I would want to try to draw the person out and see if they could be more precise about what they are saying and what it is they mean to say.

This illustrates exactly what could be problematic - cant have people telling other people when they should be ready to die.


Hekate

(90,202 posts)
39. I'm glad that he had the choice and the means. There is no "cure" for old age...
Mon May 14, 2018, 01:37 PM
May 2018

Last edited Mon May 14, 2018, 03:10 PM - Edit history (2)

When I was a kid I used to think living to a hundred or even 200 would be fabulous. But now I am 70, and realize that everybody gets the same number of "youth" years, and nowadays some extension of "middle age" years -- but after that, old age is what you've got.

Whether your personal old age is two decades or ten decades (as in, living to 150) what you are living with is an increasingly frail body with all its bits faling off or breaking, and a near inevitability of dementia at some point, because the brain is just another body part.

We have 7 billion people on this planet. When we have sorted out that problem, get back to me about extending life indefinitely. Then get back to me about "curing" old age.

I'm not in any hurry to shuffle off this mortal coil just yet. But there is a lesson in Greek mythology:

I met the Sibyl at Cumae, quotes TS Eliot in his epigraph to The Waste Land.

"I saw myself, with my own eyes, the Sibyl of Cumae hanging in a bottle; and when the boys asked her: "Sibyl, what do you want?" she responded: "I want to die."
Petronius, Satyricon

The god Apollo asked his faithful prophetess what gift he could give her, and she asked for eternal life. Unfortunately, she neglected to ask for eternal youth, which Apollo could not afterwards grant her, so that she shriveled and withered over the years into an insect husk of the woman she had once been, living a wretched eternity in a glass bottle.
The poet T.S. Eliot used this passage as the epigram for his great poem "The Waste Land," and indeed his work is filled with prophets living on the edge of chaos: the Sibyl of Cumae shrinking into nothingness...

http://www.deepthought.org/~efulton/sibyl.html

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