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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:27 AM May 2018

One-Fifth of Americans Have No Religious Affiliation

Source: PoliticalWire



May 10, 2018 at 9:21 am EDT By Taegan Goddard

A new ABC News poll finds the number of adults expressing no religious affiliation has risen from 12% in 2003 to 21% of all adults in 2017. That includes 3% who say they’re atheists, 3% agnostic and 15% who say they have no religion.

The largest shifts during this 15-year period include 16-point increases among young adults (age 18 to 29) and political liberals.

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Read more: https://politicalwire.com/2018/05/10/one-fifth-of-americans-have-no-religious-affiliation/

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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One-Fifth of Americans Have No Religious Affiliation (Original Post) DonViejo May 2018 OP
I expect this % of not having a particular affiliation will ... SWBTATTReg May 2018 #1
K&R. I think your opinion is quite accurate. KY_EnviroGuy May 2018 #44
The idea that there is a difference between "no religion". "agnostic" and "the dread 'A' word"? Moostache May 2018 #2
That's OK, we're not selling. MurrayDelph May 2018 #5
I'm sorry, I consider myself an atheist, but I don't claim to KNOW there is no God progree May 2018 #6
I've met some "evangelical atheists" who were 100% sure, ... JustABozoOnThisBus May 2018 #13
I agree totally - there are 100%'ers in all belief and "non-belief" systems progree May 2018 #16
Polysemy. Igel May 2018 #22
Do you honestly believe atheists and fundamentalist christians.... SergeStorms May 2018 #15
Thank you! Exactly ZERO atheists have shown up at my door trying to convert me flibbitygiblets May 2018 #20
Well said. SergeStorms May 2018 #24
The religious tax exemption is anti-Constitutional on its face. lagomorph777 May 2018 #36
What's good for the goose is good for the gander... KY_EnviroGuy May 2018 #43
+1000. n/t. lindysalsagal May 2018 #45
You're right about atheist being basically a smear JesterCS May 2018 #41
Our English language classes are failing us... brooklynite May 2018 #30
The word "atheist" simply means "without a belief in a god or gods". It's implies nothing about smirkymonkey May 2018 #46
My wife is a prime example of this. OnlinePoker May 2018 #10
The difference is: You give all three alternatives because some don't know the difference. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #14
Agnostic is not atheist Drahthaardogs May 2018 #21
For example, I'm an agnostic, but not really an atheist. DetlefK May 2018 #26
Agreed; there is still a stigma attached to atheism. lagomorph777 May 2018 #31
So I wish the news media would quit shoving it down our throats ebbie15644 May 2018 #3
I never attended a religious service in my life unless someone got married, born or died. rzemanfl May 2018 #4
I must hang out with weird people Codeine May 2018 #7
Only three percent are willing to say they're atheists DavidDvorkin May 2018 #18
I know three atheists. Igel May 2018 #23
I am an un-closeted atheist; it took me a long time to come out. lagomorph777 May 2018 #32
I stopped believing a long time ago LittleGirl May 2018 #8
Like you left church but 18 yrs ago nondenominational marlakay May 2018 #33
I've been wanting to do meditation but LittleGirl May 2018 #34
Lol thats when you need it the most! marlakay May 2018 #40
A Wide Awakening relogic May 2018 #9
I'm a substitute organists titaniumsalute May 2018 #11
The church I clean is made for probably 100 JesterCS May 2018 #42
I refer to myself as a constitutional atheist. Javaman May 2018 #12
Clever! I like that. n/t LittleGirl May 2018 #35
Shouldn't they have asked Cold War Spook May 2018 #17
79% includes millions of 'Christians' who follow sexual predator Trump who ridicules Holy Communion. keithbvadu2 May 2018 #19
Publically I identify as a Protestant Raine May 2018 #25
Atheism isn't killing religion. Indifference is. DetlefK May 2018 #27
I agree, says this churchgoer. kwassa May 2018 #38
I don't agree. Hypocrisy is what's killing religion TexasBushwhacker May 2018 #39
No surprise. Much of religion in America is a fraud. I would have thought democratisphere May 2018 #28
Many modern Americans consider themselves "spiritual" but not religious, HopeAgain May 2018 #29
Yet, None Believers have little representation in Federal government. rogue emissary May 2018 #37

SWBTATTReg

(21,856 posts)
1. I expect this % of not having a particular affiliation will ...
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:35 AM
May 2018

continue to increase higher than 21%. One reason is the idiotic support of this current administration in rolling back aid to the poor, deporting those here legally or illegally, and the obvious very pro-business slant of this admin., rolling back regulations, fighting min. wage laws, and so forth.

Yet the evangelicals still support this P***Y grabbing non-president, and all of his disgusting traits.

The 2nd reason is that religion hasn't answered a lot of people's questions or come to their aid when needed.

My opinion only.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,483 posts)
44. K&R. I think your opinion is quite accurate.
Sat May 12, 2018, 03:27 AM
May 2018

I would guess that 21% number is far higher if people were open and honest. Many simply identify with what's traditional in their families, and some identify to stay in good with family, peers, or even some employers. However, we would never see those people in a church on any regular basis and are more likely to be playing golf on Sunday. Just look at how Blue Laws have disappeared in the last 50 years.

.........

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
2. The idea that there is a difference between "no religion". "agnostic" and "the dread 'A' word"?
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:36 AM
May 2018

Not buying...

People still have an irrational aversion to the term "atheist" because of social acceptance of religion and the artificial and unerned or warranted respect it is granted.

I find absolutely nothing intrinsically worthy about believing in fairy tales of dead men rising, or miracles, or flying horses, or anything else in the fantastical world of pre-historical Palestine and the region - be it Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.

I similarly find nothing intrinsically wicked about being of no faith, agnostic or atheist. To me, these are labels without a worthy distinction beyond trying to sound like something religious people find less offensive than "Atheist"-label.

It is a simple proposition to me. In pondering the vastness of space and time and the universe and the tiny nature of the stage on which humanity plays out its temporal and insignificant lifespan, I find no need, reason or possibility for an omnipotent, omniscient being that is obsessively worried about the sexual proclivities and eating habits of just one species among millions on small rock orbiting a nondescript star in the outer arms of one galaxy among billions.

If believing makes you comfortable, or helps you sleep or find 'meaning'....more power to you, kindly you do you and keep it way from me or my children and we have no beef....but that is too often not enough for the believer. It is not enough for them to be acknowledged and asked to leave others alone...they must insert themselves and their inanities into the lives of others. That is flat out wrong and needs to end.

MurrayDelph

(5,278 posts)
5. That's OK, we're not selling.
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:48 AM
May 2018

The difference is that agnostics don't know whether there is a god, atheists know there isn't. I won't go as far as calling atheism a religion, but if you feel the need to proselytize and/or raise money to spread the anti-word, then it's a duck.

Having been brought up Jewish, I have come to believe there is no God, but there if was true evidence, I might change my mind.

Otherwise, it often looks as though the "fundamentalist" atheists are trying to use us the way fundamentalist "Christians" use the term "Judeo-Christian": to bolster their numbers to try to add credibility to their argument. And that's what this Judeo ain't buying.

progree

(10,864 posts)
6. I'm sorry, I consider myself an atheist, but I don't claim to KNOW there is no God
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:58 AM
May 2018

Last edited Thu May 10, 2018, 10:33 AM - Edit history (1)

The most common definitions of atheist / atheism don't include any qualifier about certainty.

Then there are definitions of "strong atheists" and "weak atheists" and more ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

atheism.about.com's definitions of atheism
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm

I call myself an atheist, because I believe in atheism (no gods, no supernatural...) with about 90% certainty. I'm not 100% sure. Likewise, most people who call themselves atheists do not say they are completely sure, according to a poll conducted by Free Inquiry.

Many Christians believe in Christianity (belief in God, in the divinity of Jesus and so on -- there is no "maybe" or "possibly" in the definitions of Christianity), but many Christians aren't 100% sure of all or any of the tenets of Christianity. We don't call Christians "arrogant" (just for being Christians) and Christians don't divide into 2 camps - "Christ-eists" for ones who are 100% sure, and "Chrisnostics" for those who aren't 100% sure. And they don't have the "Christ-eists" calling the "Christnostics" wishy-washy fence sitters. And they don't have the "Chrisnostics" calling the "Christ-eists" arrogant and stupid (for claiming to know the unknowable).

I don't know why atheists got tarred and feathered with the notion that they are arrogantly 100% sure. Whereas in every other belief, there is no assumption that the believers are completely, absolutely, and totally 100% sure. I think it is strange that non-believers in God who aren't absolutely certain there is no god (as most aren't) feel the need to find some other name (like "agnostic" ).

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,282 posts)
13. I've met some "evangelical atheists" who were 100% sure, ...
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:43 AM
May 2018

... and wanted to convince others.

But, I know "100%" Catholics, Muslims, Baptists, Lutherans, too. I just try to avoid religious discussions with any of them.

Myself, I waver between "lapsed Episcopal" and "agnostic", and there's no need to convince anyone that I'm right.

No matter, because we'll all be one with the big turtle in the end.

progree

(10,864 posts)
16. I agree totally - there are 100%'ers in all belief and "non-belief" systems
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:56 AM
May 2018
I've met some "evangelical atheists" who were 100% sure, ...

... and wanted to convince others.

But, I know "100%" Catholics, Muslims, Baptists, Lutherans, too. I just try to avoid religious discussions with any of them.


I agree on all of the above, and me too on avoiding religious discussions with them.

Myself, I waver between "lapsed Episcopal" and "agnostic", and there's no need to convince anyone that I'm right.


Lots of self-declared atheists, I think most, and that would include me, have no need to convince others. You won't see me in the Religion group or the Atheists and Agnostics group trying to convince anyone that my particular brand of belief (in non-belief, paradoxically), is "right". After all, I'm not 100% sure of my "belief" anyway (and most self-labelled atheists aren't sure either per the Free Inquiry poll).

Igel

(35,191 posts)
22. Polysemy.
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:14 PM
May 2018

And the fallacious assumption that if you share a category name you're a prototypical representative.

Most (D) consider themselves "true (D)". Most Xians consider themselves "true Xians." Now matter how fringy and outlying they are.

Of course, polysemy is a damned useful word: It just means a given word has more than one definition. Common as dust mites, but most people assume that when they use a word it has a rich set of meanings, but when the foe uses the same word it only has the meaning that puts the foe in the worst possible light.

Which is, of course, a different fallacy.

Fallac worship is all too common.

SergeStorms

(18,880 posts)
15. Do you honestly believe atheists and fundamentalist christians....
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:47 AM
May 2018

are two sides of the same coin? You somehow believe organized atheists are just as much of a threat to you as fundamentalists?

I prefer the term 'secular humanist' to the word 'atheist' because the latter was coined by christians in an attempt to define us. I refuse to be defined by them. There are no organized secular humanists, or atheists for that matter, but there should be. 20% of the population would be a huge lobbying group, and I believe it's needed to combat the creeping fundamentalist wet dream of a christian theocracy in the U.S.

There is a magazine and organization (actually there are more than one, but I'll only touch upon this one) named The Skeptical Enquirer. They're based in Amherst, NY and - as well as the magazine - have lectures and conventions nationwide. It's a magnificent magazine, and group of people from all over the world, and it's mission statement is to combat the childish myths of the christian 'god' and free people from it's guilt-ridden grip. We believe that christianty is deleterious to human development and happiness. That's as close to an "organization" as non-believers get.

However, to say that the two sides of the coin are the same is to ignore the iron grip religion has on much of the world's population. Take a look at the Middle East. Religion has torn that region of the world apart since religion was invented. Imagine no religion (someone should write a song like that in the region. I believe they'd be far better off living together without the built-in hate of organized religion. Non-believers and fundamentalists are nowhere near equal in their power to control the world's dialogue, and fate.

flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
20. Thank you! Exactly ZERO atheists have shown up at my door trying to convert me
Thu May 10, 2018, 04:43 PM
May 2018

Can anyone else say the same about non-atheists? Of course not.

The only thing I've ever seen from atheists is the "Freedom From Religion" commercials, with which I agree 100%. Have your beliefs if that's what gets you though, but keep it out of my schools, courthouses, money, and anything else my taxes pay for.

And if it's no too much to ask, if your religion is tax exempt, then keep the fuck out of public politics.

SergeStorms

(18,880 posts)
24. Well said.
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:14 PM
May 2018

I especially like the last sentence. In my opinion all religions should be taxed. They use the same government services as secular organizations, they should pay the same taxes. When the government recognized Scientology as a "religion", they jumped the shark.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,483 posts)
43. What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
Sat May 12, 2018, 03:10 AM
May 2018

The religious right also embraces free market principles. If churches were taxed like other business properties, that would weed a lot of them out (like business competition) and some might have to merge to stay open. Hit 'em hard in their hypocrisy.

That could open up a whole new line of M&A work for Citi, Golden Sacks and others......

One of many reasons I agree this practice is unconstitutional is because they are exclusionary; that is, most churches are prejudiced against certain sectors of the populace in one form or another.

JesterCS

(1,827 posts)
41. You're right about atheist being basically a smear
Fri May 11, 2018, 11:43 PM
May 2018

Atheist commonly used as "non believer" putting people into a group or category based on their lack of believe in a god...definitely was coined by religion

brooklynite

(93,834 posts)
30. Our English language classes are failing us...
Fri May 11, 2018, 07:06 AM
May 2018

THEISM refers to belief. GNOSTICISM refers to knowledge.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
46. The word "atheist" simply means "without a belief in a god or gods". It's implies nothing about
Sat May 12, 2018, 07:49 AM
May 2018

knowledge. Most Athiests aren't claiming to know for certain that there is no god. "Agnostic" means "without knowledge of god" but most Agnostics take that to mean that they have no knowledge one way or the other.

Many people are both. They neither believe nor have knowledge, but few have the need to proselytize about their position. I don't know where you are getting the impression that the lack of belief is some kind of "fundamentalist" movement. As it has been said before "Atheism is a belief like not collecting stamps is a hobby". Simply disbelieving doesn't make one part of a "movement".

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
21. Agnostic is not atheist
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:05 PM
May 2018

At least in theory, although there could be some overlap.

No religion could mean anything from no organized religion to anti religion.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
26. For example, I'm an agnostic, but not really an atheist.
Fri May 11, 2018, 04:49 AM
May 2018

I am an agnostic: I have come to the philosophical conclusion that it is impossible to prove that God exists or doesn't exist. So why bother with something as intangible and irrelevant as "God"?

I have a tendency towards atheism: Even though I don't know for sure, I think it's far more likely that he doesn't exist than that he does exist, because the religious descriptions of God are full of contradictions and unresolved questions.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
31. Agreed; there is still a stigma attached to atheism.
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:35 AM
May 2018

But the Evilgelicals are helping to turn that around. They are staining religion.

rzemanfl

(29,540 posts)
4. I never attended a religious service in my life unless someone got married, born or died.
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:45 AM
May 2018

Nonetheless I was raised to answer the question "protestant" to avoid hassles. I stopped doing that many decades ago. I suspect the true number is larger than 21%.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
7. I must hang out with weird people
Thu May 10, 2018, 09:59 AM
May 2018

because probably 80% of the people I know are atheistic. The idea that only 3% of Americans are atheists is difficult for me to accept.

Igel

(35,191 posts)
23. I know three atheists.
Thu May 10, 2018, 08:16 PM
May 2018

One I've known for 20 years, one for 2 years, and one for 7 years.

I've met hundreds of people. Some, no doubt, are tacitly atheist. But I've met more people willing to say they're Wiccans than people that say they're atheists.

Most claim some form of Xianity. Whatever that word means.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
32. I am an un-closeted atheist; it took me a long time to come out.
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:37 AM
May 2018

Last edited Fri May 11, 2018, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)

I was raised very Catholic, but from about the age of 5 I stopped believing it. It became hard to even believe that anybody else could believe that stuff. I still feel that way.

LittleGirl

(8,261 posts)
8. I stopped believing a long time ago
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:00 AM
May 2018

and then I left the church about 10 years ago when the catholic church finally admitted to molesting and raping boys and girls. That was it for me. And it wasn't the actual deed that did it for me, it was the coverup. I'm not a little girl anymore. I'm a grown ass woman married to a Christian who reads his bible silently every morning. He still loves me even though I've left religion, faith and whatnot at the door of our marriage a decade ago. I don't make fun of his belief or faith and he doesn't make fun of me either.

marlakay

(11,370 posts)
33. Like you left church but 18 yrs ago nondenominational
Fri May 11, 2018, 03:28 PM
May 2018

I felt like I was missing the spiritual part of my life and last few years started doing mindfulness, meditation, and reading some Buddhist books but I don’t go to church.

I don’t believe there is a God who decides who gets to live or die, who has a good day or not.

But I find peace in nature and in slowing myself down to stop thoughts if only for a few min.

LittleGirl

(8,261 posts)
34. I've been wanting to do meditation but
Fri May 11, 2018, 04:04 PM
May 2018

my life is a little hectic right now. Maybe when it slows down...I'll do that. (I'm moving to Europe as soon as the house sells and we have an open house tomorrow).

Thank you for your reply.

marlakay

(11,370 posts)
40. Lol thats when you need it the most!
Fri May 11, 2018, 07:26 PM
May 2018

While taking a shower or bath let your thoughts go and follow your breath, I am breathing in, I am breathing out and when the millions of thoughts come you let them float over and keep breathing deeply.

It should help with the stress of the move. I just moved in Sept, good luck!

And if you can do it for only only min it will help.

Jealous your going to Europe, I would love to be far from this mess!

relogic

(155 posts)
9. A Wide Awakening
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:01 AM
May 2018

It’s difficult maintaining allegiance to a god or worldview that encourages one to ignore divisiveness, cruelty and fantasy. Those of us who have chosen to abandoned the widespread lies that religionists have used in this country (the new era of trumpism) a mighty reminder of the ignorant tendencies that infect a population led down the path of such delusion.

titaniumsalute

(4,742 posts)
11. I'm a substitute organists
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:35 AM
May 2018

I mostly play in medium sized to small churches, lots of Lutheran/Episcopalian/Methodist for whatever reason. I can tell you that the Sunday crowds are SMALL overall. I played for a service last Sunday that had about 8 people in attendance.

Javaman

(62,435 posts)
12. I refer to myself as a constitutional atheist.
Thu May 10, 2018, 10:39 AM
May 2018

meaning: believe whatever you wish, just don't bother me with it.

 

Cold War Spook

(1,279 posts)
17. Shouldn't they have asked
Thu May 10, 2018, 11:10 AM
May 2018

those without a religion whether or not they believed in God? Just because you don't have a religion does not mean you don't believe in God.

keithbvadu2

(36,360 posts)
19. 79% includes millions of 'Christians' who follow sexual predator Trump who ridicules Holy Communion.
Thu May 10, 2018, 01:06 PM
May 2018

79% includes millions of 'Christians' who follow sexual predator Trump who ridicules Holy Communion and does not need God's forgiveness.

With such an example of 'acceptable' faith, is it a surprise that young folks do not see religion as a genuine belief system of morals?

With all the 'mulligans' Donald needs (and gets), ____________ (you can finish it).

Raine

(30,540 posts)
25. Publically I identify as a Protestant
Fri May 11, 2018, 04:13 AM
May 2018

I was raised a Lutheran but I haven't been to church for decades except for weddings and funerals. At this point in my life I'm an agnostic but hesitant to tell people because I don't want to get flack about it.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
27. Atheism isn't killing religion. Indifference is.
Fri May 11, 2018, 04:53 AM
May 2018

With atheists you can at least have a discussion about God. They care about this topic and have opinions and arguments.

But what about people who care so little about God that they don't even bother thinking about him?

TexasBushwhacker

(20,043 posts)
39. I don't agree. Hypocrisy is what's killing religion
Fri May 11, 2018, 06:56 PM
May 2018

People are getting sick of people who claim to be Christians who behave so unlike Christ.

As for the young people turning away from religion, I think a lot of them just cannot accept religions continued homophobia. Most have at least one gay friend or coworker and know that they are just as good and moral as anyone else.

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
29. Many modern Americans consider themselves "spiritual" but not religious,
Fri May 11, 2018, 06:51 AM
May 2018

I think many people want to hold on to spirituality and spiritual experiences without the dogma and politics of formal religions.

rogue emissary

(3,147 posts)
37. Yet, None Believers have little representation in Federal government.
Fri May 11, 2018, 06:33 PM
May 2018

Depending on how you count agnostics. Anywhere from 18% to 21% according to this poll aren't religion and may not believe in God. Of course, we barely have one House Representative that some times claims she no longer practice religion, but won't identify as an Atheist.

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