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brooklynite

(93,834 posts)
Wed May 30, 2018, 12:42 PM May 2018

Sanders Mulls Another Presidential Bid

Source: Political Wire

Sen. Bernie Sanders’ (I-VT) former presidential campaign manager told C-SPAN that the Vermont independent is considering another presidential run.

Said Jeff Weaver: “Nationally, he is considering another run for the presidency. When the time comes I think we’ll have an answer to that. But right now he’s still considering it.”

Read more: https://politicalwire.com/2018/05/30/sanders-mulls-another-presidential-bid/



On reflection, my concern isn't that he's too left wing; it's that I can't see him taking on Trump the way Trump will need to be taken on. I worry that he'll think his ideas are good enough to win.
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Sanders Mulls Another Presidential Bid (Original Post) brooklynite May 2018 OP
No, thank you. RandySF May 2018 #1
Exactly. "No, thank you." and Please No. Cha May 2018 #118
This....the thread should end with this Docreed2003 May 2018 #129
Exactly. Been there. Done that. No need to do it again. We all know... NurseJackie May 2018 #140
NO NO NO NO. trueblue2007 Jun 2018 #147
Please god no cyclonefence May 2018 #2
I'm 61 and I love him TexasBushwhacker May 2018 #3
I'm of the same mind LiberalLovinLug May 2018 #43
I have Republican friends who would have voted for Bernie over Trump TexasBushwhacker May 2018 #51
I think the russia stuff was directed primarily towards Hillary, honestly. Tiggeroshii May 2018 #61
I believe Putin has an agenda and needede a puppet in the White House. lunamagica May 2018 #65
Saying that Sanders would have won the election is nothing but a fantasy with not facts to support lunamagica May 2018 #56
Lots of truth there - the right wing would have excoriated him during the general election campaign! George II May 2018 #62
I'm sure there is so much more than what we could ever imagine. lunamagica May 2018 #67
I agree with your analysis Gothmog May 2018 #70
Agree! He will split the vote like the Green Party. Another 4 yrs of dotard..please Bernie think!! Thekaspervote May 2018 #75
I agree. He polled higher than Trump. secondwind May 2018 #126
Not good for the US liberal N proud May 2018 #4
Go away Bernie! DownriverDem May 2018 #32
Correction LiberalLovinLug May 2018 #46
Sorry, no. He lacks the judgement and temperament to be president. emulatorloo May 2018 #94
Wow, excellent post! Love this breath of fresh air and realism. R B Garr May 2018 #107
popular politicians do not inspire resentment and hatred. LSFL May 2018 #104
+1, absolute truth. nt R B Garr May 2018 #108
Most WELL-KNOWN politicians inspire some resentment and hatred. Jim Lane May 2018 #142
+1000 LiberalLovinLug Jun 2018 #146
This message was self-deleted by its author liberal N proud May 2018 #113
That is a misguided statement considering the history of his supporters liberal N proud May 2018 #115
Yes, "we do know how the Bernie supporters acted" -- they voted for Hillary. Jim Lane May 2018 #143
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! still_one May 2018 #5
Just say no. greatauntoftriplets May 2018 #6
That would be great! Tiggeroshii May 2018 #7
If by "good" cab67 May 2018 #10
I think he would be a great addition to the lot we seem to have already. We need a strong, healthy Tiggeroshii May 2018 #11
Exactly, cab.. he's too divisive. Cha May 2018 #119
One more time DownriverDem May 2018 #33
Exactly. Doodley May 2018 #39
Bernie has been a part of the Democratic caucus and Democratic committees holding true to his Tiggeroshii May 2018 #41
None of that matters to the Bernie haters who have yet to let go of the InAbLuEsTaTe May 2018 #80
Hopefully we do. Bernie or not, I think we will come around. Tiggeroshii May 2018 #81
I have to believe that... but, then I thought we had already united around Hillary in the interest InAbLuEsTaTe May 2018 #111
Since when do we only have a 2 party system, I must have missed something. vsrazdem May 2018 #50
It may even be more involved than that. There is a fair chance that trump will be challenged in still_one May 2018 #76
The republicans would love for Sanders to run in 2020. comradebillyboy May 2018 #88
no doubt still_one May 2018 #98
Go away Bernie! Botany May 2018 #8
I'd bet on it. comradebillyboy May 2018 #14
I'm not on the Bernie train radical noodle May 2018 #9
If Sanders won the Democratic nomination fair and square, how many Hillary supporters here Sophia4 May 2018 #12
There werent close to as many bernie dems who did that as we would be led to believe Tiggeroshii May 2018 #15
Of course I would vote for him DavidDvorkin May 2018 #16
Remember when disgruntled Hillary voters refused to vote for Obama? brooklynite May 2018 #25
fair and square yes DonCoquixote May 2018 #31
Fair and Square? DownriverDem May 2018 #35
Not me. n/t Tess49 May 2018 #44
By your own standards, it doesn't matter who people vote for in California R B Garr May 2018 #45
That is my question. Has something changed? Sophia4 May 2018 #91
You are asking who is going to vote for Sanders. R B Garr May 2018 #96
For that reason alone, we need someone other than the candidates that ran in 2016, because the still_one May 2018 #77
I was surprised to find out that PatrickforO May 2018 #97
Thanks for posting, especially this: Sophia4 May 2018 #106
Universal Health Care wasn't his platform. He pushed single payer only. R B Garr May 2018 #110
Interesting. At first I thought you were splitting hairs, but then I looked it up. PatrickforO May 2018 #112
Thanks for the explanation, and I'm glad you see that I wasn't R B Garr May 2018 #134
Yes. The costs. PatrickforO May 2018 #141
I don't disagree with your point Docreed2003 May 2018 #137
Didn't mean to step on toes, and I will concede the point I was over- PatrickforO May 2018 #144
We could play that what-if game for a long time but history showed us.. liberal N proud May 2018 #114
BS is an Independent. Cha May 2018 #120
It's time for Back Bench Bernie to... MarianJack May 2018 #13
He's still registered as an Independent - Right JustAnotherGen May 2018 #30
I sure hope DownriverDem May 2018 #37
I'm not going to lie to myself or anyone else JustAnotherGen May 2018 #40
At this early point,... MarianJack May 2018 #59
I'm quiety hoping for JustAnotherGen May 2018 #90
He'll just embarrass himself DavidDvorkin May 2018 #17
We Need One Thing Only Gymbo May 2018 #18
So now I read "No Socialists need apply" on a Democratic board. Jim Lane May 2018 #145
Kill. Me. Now. MANative May 2018 #19
I support Joe Biden EricMaundry May 2018 #20
I agree Gothmog May 2018 #73
I'm a Hillary guy . . . Gamecock Lefty May 2018 #21
I would rather not. We need the younger generation to step forward. Tarc May 2018 #22
Yay Bernie! Power 2 the People May 2018 #23
No Way DownriverDem May 2018 #49
no thanks. TeamPooka May 2018 #24
I would much rather see Bernie throw his complete support behind whoever the Democrat Nominee is. Stonepounder May 2018 #26
this Freddie May 2018 #28
Won't ever happen, as Bernie isn't a team player and he's not even a Democrat. Doodley May 2018 #38
I just don't see that ever happening. Bernie is the only comradebillyboy May 2018 #42
Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Cha May 2018 #122
Please dear god no Freddie May 2018 #27
Good lord no!!!!!! redstatebluegirl May 2018 #29
I'm okay with Bernie throwing his hat in the KPN May 2018 #34
Thankyou LiberalLovinLug May 2018 #48
Crickets... chirp! chirp! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2018 #52
Sanders may have actually helped Hillary by quartz007 May 2018 #131
The result would be four more years of the Trump nightmare. Doodley May 2018 #36
Why do you say that? KPN May 2018 #95
Your statement isn't accurate. The problem you'll have with this angle R B Garr May 2018 #109
Well, Trump Has Shown That an Anti-Immigrant, Anti-Trade, Pro-Gun Platform Can Win TomCADem May 2018 #47
Bernie has a D- rating by the NRA, is pro-fair trade and the farthest from anti-immigrant Tiggeroshii May 2018 #54
Fartherst from anti-immigrant? Ask Lou Dobbs He and Sanders look like two peas in a pod lunamagica May 2018 #71
Oh goodness.... Tiggeroshii May 2018 #79
You obviously didn't watch the clip. That he wanted "more lletinent imigration laws" is something he lunamagica May 2018 #92
No and No... llmart May 2018 #53
How Progressive Can One Really Claim To Be Grokenstein May 2018 #55
Have you heard of the progressive caucus in the US House? The largest in congress? Tiggeroshii May 2018 #57
Oh come on, at least be inclusive. Sanders did NOT "found it"! George II May 2018 #64
Sorry. You know the Progressive Caucus in the US House? The largest in congress? Tiggeroshii May 2018 #66
Once again, it was founded by SIX Congress people, not just one: George II May 2018 #72
Not sure how "first and founding member" leads to any confusion. Tiggeroshii May 2018 #74
That's the take of "The Hill", no one else. Edit: meant "The Nation", not "The Hill". George II May 2018 #82
That's another point of divisiveness.. always Cha May 2018 #125
Six were involved, one gets credit. Sad. George II May 2018 #127
Bernie was a founding member AND it's Chairman for the first EIGHT years despite Uncle Joe May 2018 #117
Yes, "A founding member", not "THE founding member". Glad you concur, I've been trying... George II May 2018 #121
.. Uncle Joe May 2018 #123
And on the pedestal these words appear: Grokenstein May 2018 #68
Ha! DavidDvorkin May 2018 #84
Running Conservative Dem's doesn't give "more power to Republicans"? harun May 2018 #60
Go home Bernie you're drunk. we can do it May 2018 #58
Please no. awesomerwb1 May 2018 #63
No. 80 is too old. Thirties Child May 2018 #69
No, no, no, no, no.......NT jrthin May 2018 #78
"Mulling" another Pres run is hardly LBN, btw Wwcd May 2018 #83
This!!!! sheshe2 May 2018 #100
Because four years of Trump isn't enough?? NT Bleacher Creature May 2018 #85
Bernie is one of the most honest people in politics today quartz007 May 2018 #132
Give it a rest Bernie TEB May 2018 #86
There's a lot of registered Democrats who want a registered Democrat to represent the party. RelativelyJones May 2018 #87
I sure hope not handmade34 May 2018 #89
I was a big supporter of Bernie in 2016. However, PatrickforO May 2018 #93
if personal attacks worked against Trump, he wouldn't be president. yurbud May 2018 #99
I will give him a pass for 2016 LSFL May 2018 #101
Please no. We need someone new. Oneironaut May 2018 #102
Godess, I am begging you, please NO!!! efhmc May 2018 #103
Will he run as a Democrat and then decline the nomination? Adrahil May 2018 #105
I love Bernie Raine May 2018 #116
I don't like Sanders and I would love to Cha May 2018 #124
I'm With You Me. May 2018 #128
Mahalo, Me.. Cha May 2018 #130
Same here. n/t MBS May 2018 #139
Donald Trump is counting on it. PubliusEnigma May 2018 #133
The daily Crutchez_CuiBono May 2018 #135
Bernie, don't be "that guy" Blue Owl May 2018 #136
How exciting. MFM008 May 2018 #138

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
140. Exactly. Been there. Done that. No need to do it again. We all know...
Thu May 31, 2018, 08:20 AM
May 2018
1. No, thank you.
Exactly. Been there. Done that. No need to do it again. We all know how it will end.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,043 posts)
3. I'm 61 and I love him
Wed May 30, 2018, 12:45 PM
May 2018

But I think he's too old to be a viable candidate. I would rather he choose a like minded younger politician, preferably from a swing state, and support them vigourously.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
43. I'm of the same mind
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:45 PM
May 2018

I can't stand all the Bernie hate on DU. Its divisive and just what the GOP want.

But surely there must be a younger version of him somewhere.

Also, I think he would have won the election if he would have been our candidate in 2016. Because the GOP did not have the head start in disinformation campaigning like they did with Hillary. He was too popular to chip enough away. He had too much support with independents. But they've now had time to realize that they would have to take him serious if he ran again and will have a whole library of fake news and invented CT about him ready to go.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,043 posts)
51. I have Republican friends who would have voted for Bernie over Trump
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:09 PM
May 2018

But we cannot forget the Russia factor. I have a feeling the fix was in for Trump to be elected even in the primaries. The question is, now that we know that happened, will we be able to prevent it from happening again?

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
61. I think the russia stuff was directed primarily towards Hillary, honestly.
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:42 PM
May 2018

Putin hated her more than anything because of her efforts to address Russia's human rights atrocities. So far it seems like he would have settled for either candidate as his horse in the race. He just didn't like Hillary because she made him look like the weak man he is. That being said, it looks like Russia is trying to meddle again in the midterm elections... probably to keep the crazy racists energized.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
65. I believe Putin has an agenda and needede a puppet in the White House.
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:59 PM
May 2018

trump was the ideal man for the job.

Then again, he might have considered sanders a weak rival, not the formidable foe that he was facing if Hillary became POTUS.

He really feared her.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
56. Saying that Sanders would have won the election is nothing but a fantasy with not facts to support
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:36 PM
May 2018

Last edited Wed May 30, 2018, 08:21 PM - Edit history (1)

it.

Sanders lost the nomination because millions more voters voted for Hillary. That's a simple fact, simple math. If he could no motivate enough people to vote for him to get the nomination, what would anyone think that he'd get enough votes to win the GE? And I'm talking factual reasoning, not anecdotes.

Sanders was not vetted. Hillary treated him with kid gloves. Yet he had quite a bit of baggage. You think that the GOP wouldn't have been able to create a smear campaign against him in a matter of weeks? Rightly or wrongly they would have painted him as a commie-loving socialist dead-beat dad who never had a real job until he was 40 years old and then had a long but mediocre career in congress. And that would have just been the tip of the iceberg. Let's not even think what they would have done with Jane and her Burlington college mess.

Sanders would have been trounced in the GE. That would have been the only realistic outcome.

George II

(67,782 posts)
62. Lots of truth there - the right wing would have excoriated him during the general election campaign!
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:45 PM
May 2018

To them there was potentially an endless supply of red meat, especially by trump himself.

DownriverDem

(6,205 posts)
32. Go away Bernie!
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:28 PM
May 2018

Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party. He & his supporters caused a big mess last time. Go away Bernie!

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
46. Correction
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:51 PM
May 2018

Those who allowed their resentment and hatred towards him to cloud their thinking, and railed on against the most popular politician, who is on our side, fractured the Democratic Party.


emulatorloo

(43,979 posts)
94. Sorry, no. He lacks the judgement and temperament to be president.
Wed May 30, 2018, 04:33 PM
May 2018

He surrounds himself with hotheaded ideologues and loose cannons like Weaver and Turner. He took our donations last time and paid his family members. When questioned about policy implementation, he becomes angry and defensive. He is not financially transparent. He has a pac that is not required to disclose its big donors, and he will not release his tax returns. He continually makes gaffes (Hillary should have stopped Russian Trolls, tone deaf statements on MLK day, constant slams on Democrats etc)

I supported him in primary 2016, and he is an excellent Senator for his constituents. He does not have what it takes to be president.

He was not vetted last time. In 2020 his record will be examined and he will be asked tough questions by the press as well as the other candidates. Not just the DU’ers you are attempting to dismiss and discredit for their legitimate question.


As to “the most popular politician”, I am sure you are aware Biden is out polling him in the 2020 polls so far. Warren out polled him as well in a recent New Hampshire poll.

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
107. Wow, excellent post! Love this breath of fresh air and realism.
Wed May 30, 2018, 07:23 PM
May 2018

This is the realism we all must focus on, not the divisive My Way or the Highway one-size-fits-all campaign rhetoric we've had to endure.

Thank you, emulatorloo!

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
142. Most WELL-KNOWN politicians inspire some resentment and hatred.
Thu May 31, 2018, 09:17 AM
May 2018

Would you call Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton divisive? Each of them inspired a lot of resentment and hatred. So, of course, did George W. Bush.

In practice, when someone says "Politician X is divisive," it usually seems to come down to "Politician X inspires resentment and hatred in me."

Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #46)

liberal N proud

(60,298 posts)
115. That is a misguided statement considering the history of his supporters
Wed May 30, 2018, 09:01 PM
May 2018

His supporters on this site during the 2016 election. Many new rules were created because of their actions. Then there was the convention.

We will never know if Hillary supporters would have accepted Bernie, but we do know how the Bernie supporters acted
 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
143. Yes, "we do know how the Bernie supporters acted" -- they voted for Hillary.
Thu May 31, 2018, 09:22 AM
May 2018

Any primary contest leaves some people on the losing side(s) feeling so angry that they won't vote for the winner. The fact is that those who supported Bernie in the 2016 primaries voted Democratic in the general election in greater proportion than did her 2008 primary voters.

cab67

(2,962 posts)
10. If by "good"
Wed May 30, 2018, 12:51 PM
May 2018

you mean "none whatsoever."

I like him. A lot. But he's not the right person for 2020.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
11. I think he would be a great addition to the lot we seem to have already. We need a strong, healthy
Wed May 30, 2018, 12:54 PM
May 2018

Debate on our side if we seriously intend to take back the white house. He is also currently the front runner in the field of democrats. I think that makes his chances pretty good.

DownriverDem

(6,205 posts)
33. One more time
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:30 PM
May 2018

We have a two party system. Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party. Wake up! And if he does run as an independent he will split the Dem vote and you can welcome trump to a second term. So help us out here. Whose side are you on?

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
41. Bernie has been a part of the Democratic caucus and Democratic committees holding true to his
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:39 PM
May 2018

obligation as a member of the party within the legislature, and to Democratic values -arguably more than actual Democrats like Joe Manchin or Donnelly for decades on end. Stop that nonesense. He is still polled as one of the most popular politicians in the country.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
80. None of that matters to the Bernie haters who have yet to let go of the
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:39 PM
May 2018

2016 primary election. We need to move on and unite if we hope to take over the House and Senate in 2018 and defeat that POS occupying the White House in 2020.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
111. I have to believe that... but, then I thought we had already united around Hillary in the interest
Wed May 30, 2018, 08:19 PM
May 2018

of defeating Dotard Chump. Yet, here we are, some still stuck in the past.

still_one

(91,937 posts)
76. It may even be more involved than that. There is a fair chance that trump will be challenged in
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:30 PM
May 2018

2020 by republicans in their primaries, which have a good opportunity to split the republicans among themselves, and if Sanders sticks his, "I refuse to join the Democratic party", nose into the 2020 race, it will be a disaster.

After 2016, he couldn't change his party affiliation fast enough back to independent status.

Right or wrong, Sanders has become a polarizing figure among a lot of Democrats, and that is not going away anytime soon.

The republicans would love for Sanders to run in 2020.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
12. If Sanders won the Democratic nomination fair and square, how many Hillary supporters here
Wed May 30, 2018, 12:54 PM
May 2018

would vote for him?

There was a lot of bitterness about Sanders supporters who did not vote for Hillary, a lot of talk about voting for the Democratic candidate no matter what.

Would everyone here vote for Sanders if he won the Democratic primary fair and square?

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
15. There werent close to as many bernie dems who did that as we would be led to believe
Wed May 30, 2018, 12:56 PM
May 2018

And there wouldnt be so many Clinton suppirters either

brooklynite

(93,834 posts)
25. Remember when disgruntled Hillary voters refused to vote for Obama?
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:16 PM
May 2018

Right. It didn't happen. Neither would this.

DownriverDem

(6,205 posts)
35. Fair and Square?
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:32 PM
May 2018

Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party. If he were and won the nomination, Dems would vote for him.
Wake up!!!!!

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
45. By your own standards, it doesn't matter who people vote for in California
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:51 PM
May 2018

because it's a big state and we can send messages. It also doesn't matter in other states, as well. (this is all based on what I recall of your pro Sanders posts, correct me if I'm wrong.)

I'm just finding your concern over nailing down who would hypothetically vote for Sanders to be at cross purposes from some of your earlier posts that were basically relating that the Democratic nominee was not the priority as much as an individuals "ideas." Has something changed?

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
96. You are asking who is going to vote for Sanders.
Wed May 30, 2018, 04:39 PM
May 2018

So you can look to your own standards you promoted. Should others adopt your standards for voting for the Democratic nominee?? I recall your own stated reasons for why you refused to vote for Hillary.

still_one

(91,937 posts)
77. For that reason alone, we need someone other than the candidates that ran in 2016, because the
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:36 PM
May 2018

bitterness from 2016 is NOT going away.




PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
97. I was surprised to find out that
Wed May 30, 2018, 04:51 PM
May 2018

according to NPR, about 14% of Bernie supporters ended up voting for Trump and another significant number did not vote or voted third party.

I supported Bernie, and it was a bitter primary. I can remember how furious I was at the meme painting Bernie as a racist, and suggesting that social justice is more important than economic justice when Bernie's platform would substantially and measurably have made my life and the lives of my immediate family better. In fact, universal healthcare would make ALL of our lives better and immediately help most American businesses with their most expensive line item. Having healthcare not tied to employment is the way to go.

That said, I voted for Hillary after she won the primary, because of the Supreme Court, and because I didn't want Trump in there.

It blows me away that so many who voted for Bernie in the primary turned away from Democrats in the general.

And Hillary actually WON the general but for the electoral college. I urge all to support the National Popular Vote Initiative because we need to circumvent the electoral college once and for all.

It makes me wonder what groups of Bernie supporters turned away from the Dems. Were they left-leaning independents? In some states independents can vote in the primaries. What generation were they? Were they millennials, primarily, or boomers?

Let's not have a repeat of that in 2020! Personally, I think Bernie is too old, but his platform - we need those things.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
106. Thanks for posting, especially this:
Wed May 30, 2018, 07:08 PM
May 2018

"I urge all to support the National Popular Vote Initiative because we need to circumvent the electoral college once and for all."

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
110. Universal Health Care wasn't his platform. He pushed single payer only.
Wed May 30, 2018, 07:50 PM
May 2018

Hillary Clinton was for Universal Health care and a quick review shows Bernie was more interested in his single payer 25 years ago when it could go nowhere while Hillary was pushing for Universal Health Care. All or nothing usually gets you nothing.

The vicious and prolonged attacks on Hillary look like they had the intended results.... That looks to be why people turned away from her. There are people posting in this thread who refused to vote for Hillary. Now we have Trump.

PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
112. Interesting. At first I thought you were splitting hairs, but then I looked it up.
Wed May 30, 2018, 08:31 PM
May 2018

I'm afraid I want single payer in the form of Medicare for all Americans. The reason I want this is that I believe the profit motive should be taken far away from health care.

To me, the argument that if a doctor can't make high six figures then good people won't be attracted to medicine doesn't wash.

First of all, I've been a public servant for nearly 30 years, and I've seen many, many bright and dedicated people; people who will work hard, well beyond the standard 8-hour day and even on weekends to make a difference. I am only motivated by money to the extent that I insist on having enough to make ends meet. What is it, $70K, that is considered the optimal income? I'm fine with enough.

What about nurses? I know some fine nurses - truly excellent and dedicated people. They didn't get into it for the money, either.

As I get older and need more in the way of geriatric healthcare it means quite a lot to me to have a physician who cares more about me than s/he does about money.

So, Medicare for all Americans, and the government given the power to negotiate price.

I would be ecstatic with a British or Canadian style system.

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
134. Thanks for the explanation, and I'm glad you see that I wasn't
Thu May 31, 2018, 12:48 AM
May 2018

splitting hairs. Quite the contrary. Supporting single payer has been a litmus test imposed on good Democrats who are singled out for recalls and primaries if they don’t specifically support Bernie’s political platform no matter where they are from.

Universal health care and public options are certainly progressive and realistic goals, so getting attacked for those positions only helps the GOP. I see what you like about single payer, but I see support for it goes down once the costs are known.

PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
141. Yes. The costs.
Thu May 31, 2018, 09:11 AM
May 2018

You know, I think that's because we've allowed the Republicans, since the days of Reagan, to paint taxes as bad things - rip offs where the government takes your money and you don't get anything in return.

We need to turn that around and educate people about how taxes pay for things we all need and want.

Consider Denmark. I know a Dane, and he points out that while taxes there are very high, they have socialized healthcare, college is free as far as you are capable of going (he has a master's degree), unions are very strong, and everyone has a guaranteed basic income even if they are not working, and a strong old age pension.

People in the northern European socialist countries are much less economically insecure, and are much happier in general than we are. They also have better health outcomes and infant mortality is much lower than ours.

Not saying they are perfect by a long shot, but consider us. You have guys like Daniel Pink writing about the 'gig' economy and making it seem like it is glamorous, but the reality is they live in constant fear with no benefits and low pay - if the 'check engine' light goes on, or they have a sick kid, they may find themselves out of a job, and if they get sick they can go on the Republican health plan of dying quickly.

So, yeah, I vote a straight Democratic ticket, and if a candidate wants universal healthcare, I always ask if they want to add in a public option. Because you know what? You add in a public option and almost everyone will opt for it, and the system will slowly morph into a single payer deal.

But, bottom line, we need to get MUCH more articulate talking about these kitchen table issues, and educating people about the value of their taxes in terms of their own quality of life. Of course, to do that, we'll have to have substantial cuts to the military budget and the NSA organs, because we don't really get much from that. Not that we shouldn't keep a strong military - I didn't say that! But we could sure cut a bunch of that hugely bloated budget.

Docreed2003

(16,817 posts)
137. I don't disagree with your point
Thu May 31, 2018, 05:03 AM
May 2018

Other than to ask: what doctors make "high six figures"??? I don't know any other than specialty surgeons. I spent the better part of my twenties in training and as a general surgeon I'm in the lower six figures, despite being busier than I can manage.

There seeems to be a big misconception about physician pay.

PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
144. Didn't mean to step on toes, and I will concede the point I was over-
Thu May 31, 2018, 09:29 AM
May 2018

generalizing. And, low six figures isn't all that great, especially if you're the only income in the family. I hear you there.

I do stand by my personal desire to get care from a doctor who cares more about healing patients than making money, though as I said, money is important.

But look at what you have for what you make - tons of bullshit paperwork, and if you're with some HMO, you end up with the expectation of the 9 minute or 15 minute appointment, or however long they tell you is enough to spend with patients.

You know, I have an HMO, and last time I went in for a physical, they had me go to the lab first and did some blood work. The nurse checked my weight, temperature and blood pressure....................and then the doctor came in and chatted with me for about 10 minutes. Seriously. He didn't make me disrobe. He didn't look down my throat. He didn't listen to me breathe. He didn't press on my scrotum and have me cough to see if I had a hernia. None of that, which I DID have way back when when the system was neither so expensive nor so profit oriented (or retained-earnings-oriented in the case of non-profits).

I mean, I didn't even feel like the guy was really a doctor. Nice guy, but you know, didn't seem like a real MD. Even though he was.

And the criminal thing about it is that between my employer and me, we pay OVER $17K per year for just me and my spouse in premiums. For what? Shitty, rationed healthcare with financially crippling copays. AND, let's not forget the double-digit increases in cost imposed on us each year, while the exclusions grow. It's bullshit, that's all.

Then you get dirt bags like Shkreli who bump the price of life-saving drugs thousands of percent. I was at my pharmacy getting my meds and the guy at the window next to mine said, "How much will this drug for my wife be?" Turns out it was $330 per month for the dosage his wife needed, and THAT'S JUST ONE MED.

I've worked hard, hard, hard all my life, and this shit is what I get? And to top that off, the fucks want to cut Social Security benefits???

A couple deep breaths to calm back down, but I'm sure you see where I'm coming from as a consumer of the whole shitty, greed-ridden, disgusting, profit mongering, crappy system we have now. I get angry every time I have to break down and go see a doctor.

liberal N proud

(60,298 posts)
114. We could play that what-if game for a long time but history showed us..
Wed May 30, 2018, 08:59 PM
May 2018

History shows us how the Bernie crowd acted and refused to vote for the winner of the Democratic Primary.

I will not forgive them for their part in the mess we are in with trump.

MarianJack

(10,237 posts)
13. It's time for Back Bench Bernie to...
Wed May 30, 2018, 12:55 PM
May 2018

...seriously PISS OFF!

He lacks the mental toughness, self discipline and intelligence to ever be able to sustain a national general election campaign. He would take a coast to coast pounding that would make 1972 look like 1960.

PEACE!

JustAnotherGen

(31,681 posts)
30. He's still registered as an Independent - Right
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:19 PM
May 2018

I.E. - I'm wondering if it would be as a Democratic Socialist or if he would try a bid in the Democratic Party again?

MarianJack

(10,237 posts)
59. At this early point,...
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:39 PM
May 2018

...I'd like to see a Joe Biden/Kamala Harris or Tammy Duckworth ticket.

While I have no time for Back Bench Bernie, I'd vote for a dried up sack of monkey turds over Donald Trump or any other Republican. The monkey turds would still be a significant improvement.

PEACE!

JustAnotherGen

(31,681 posts)
90. I'm quiety hoping for
Wed May 30, 2018, 04:08 PM
May 2018

Tammy Duckworth. I don't think she's on anyone's radar - but a combat veteran with a heart and a focus on PEOPLE?

Hell to the Yeah! She has zero f*cks to give and tells it like it is, and doesn't suffer a fool TRYING to talk down to her. The GOP is the collective fool.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
145. So now I read "No Socialists need apply" on a Democratic board.
Thu May 31, 2018, 09:29 AM
May 2018

You do know that when the Democratic Party pushed through Social Security, the Republicans screamed that it was socialism?

And that, when the Democratic Party pushed through Medicare, the Republicans screamed that it was socialism?

Yes, let's have a Democratic nominee in 2020 who calls for privatizing these programs, just to make sure no one can use that dreaded s-word about us.

Bernie wants Medicare for All, a higher minimum wage, and free public post-secondary education. So the 2020 platform should call for abolishing Medicare, reducing or eliminating the federal minimum wage, and abolishing free public elementary and secondary education. No Socialists need apply!

Tarc

(10,472 posts)
22. I would rather not. We need the younger generation to step forward.
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:09 PM
May 2018

If he wins the nom, sure, I'll vote for him. But this just doesn't seem realistic.

DownriverDem

(6,205 posts)
49. No Way
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:03 PM
May 2018

What is it that Bernie folks don't get? Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party. Maybe Bernie folks really want trump to win a second term. That is what will happen if he and his supporters try and mess with us again.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
26. I would much rather see Bernie throw his complete support behind whoever the Democrat Nominee is.
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:17 PM
May 2018

Stump for his everywhere, talk about how he (Sanders) would work with the new President to push his agenda. But don't fracture the party again!

Freddie

(9,231 posts)
27. Please dear god no
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:17 PM
May 2018

Whoever candidate is will be running against a 74-year old. Can't we PLEASE have someone at least under 65?? (This means you too, Joe).

KPN

(15,585 posts)
34. I'm okay with Bernie throwing his hat in the
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:30 PM
May 2018

ring again, though I'd be surprised if he actually does.

His candidacy would only strengthen the field as far as progressive values and internal party debate goes. I don't believe Sanders was the reason Hillary lost in 2016 and do not believe his candidacy would cause any other Democrstic Pstty nominee in 2020 to lose.

Sanders is a straight-shooter. His presence will appeal to the populist left and help ensure other candidates are straight- shooters and genuine as well.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
48. Thankyou
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:56 PM
May 2018

I'd rather a younger progressive with the same outlook as Bernie runs with his support. But his presence would keep at least some of the focus on actual traditional Democratic party values.

But IF he did choose to run, and he actually won the primary, I'd back him 100%. Just like all other DUers would....right?
..............right?

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
131. Sanders may have actually helped Hillary by
Wed May 30, 2018, 11:46 PM
May 2018

energizing so many young voters to become interested in politics, registering and voting.

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
109. Your statement isn't accurate. The problem you'll have with this angle
Wed May 30, 2018, 07:30 PM
May 2018

is that we have actual facts now, mostly in the form of the Russian interference that shows Sanders and Trump were helped to produce the result of Hillary losing by extended and damaging attacks on her. Those are the facts. Denying reality isn't an option anymore. All it took was 75,000 nationwide to buy the anti-Hillary propaganda.

TomCADem

(17,378 posts)
47. Well, Trump Has Shown That an Anti-Immigrant, Anti-Trade, Pro-Gun Platform Can Win
Wed May 30, 2018, 01:54 PM
May 2018

Bernie could make a credible argument that he would have some cross appeal with Trump voters, particularly if pushes his more isolationist and nativist positions.

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
54. Bernie has a D- rating by the NRA, is pro-fair trade and the farthest from anti-immigrant
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:27 PM
May 2018

that you can be. He has no "nativist positions," and his brand has always been about inclusivity and diversity. Please do not obfuscate his record and positions just because you don't like him. Thanks =)

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
71. Fartherst from anti-immigrant? Ask Lou Dobbs He and Sanders look like two peas in a pod
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:13 PM
May 2018

&t=1s

As for gun control, his record speaks for itself:

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
79. Oh goodness....
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:37 PM
May 2018

Not that again? That bill was essentially the bracero program in a new form. Did we actually want that again? He was advocating for more lenient immigration laws, not stricter.

Also he has a D- rating from the NRA and not an F. You have pointed out why that is the case. Still, these cases are far from being outright pro-gun.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
92. You obviously didn't watch the clip. That he wanted "more lletinent imigration laws" is something he
Wed May 30, 2018, 04:27 PM
May 2018

made up for the campaign.

Watch the clip. He doesn't want foreigners taking American jobs. His words. he and Dobbs agree on everything.

And nothing but a F rating is acceptable for a progressive.

llmart

(15,499 posts)
53. No and No...
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:22 PM
May 2018

We don't need any more old, white men running the country. Bernie's day in the sun is over and he better realize it. He's starting to look more and more like someone who needs to be in the limelight.

Grokenstein

(5,707 posts)
55. How Progressive Can One Really Claim To Be
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:31 PM
May 2018

...when the end result of their efforts is always "more power for Republicans"?

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
57. Have you heard of the progressive caucus in the US House? The largest in congress?
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:37 PM
May 2018

He founded it. =)

George II

(67,782 posts)
64. Oh come on, at least be inclusive. Sanders did NOT "found it"!
Wed May 30, 2018, 02:57 PM
May 2018

Once again we see credit being given to Sanders exclusively when there were SIX members of the House who founded it (two of whom are still in the House):

The CPC was established in 1991 by six members of the United States House of Representatives: U.S. Representatives Ron Dellums (D-CA), Lane Evans (D-IL), Thomas Andrews (D-ME), Peter DeFazio (D-OR), Maxine Waters (D-CA) and Bernie Sanders (I-VT).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus

 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
66. Sorry. You know the Progressive Caucus in the US House? The largest in congress?
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:00 PM
May 2018

He founded it. Later, 5 other House members helped him.


Its first and founding director was an independent socialist from Vermont named Bernie Sanders.


https://www.thenation.com/article/its-time-for-the-congressional-progressive-caucus-to-raise-its-game/

George II

(67,782 posts)
72. Once again, it was founded by SIX Congress people, not just one:
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:13 PM
May 2018
https://ballotpedia.org/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus

"The CPC was created in 1991 by six members of the U.S. House: Ron Dellums, Lane Evans, Thomas Andrews, Peter DeFazio, Maxine Waters and Bernie Sanders."

The two highlighted are still in Congress.



 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
74. Not sure how "first and founding member" leads to any confusion.
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:28 PM
May 2018

But I think it is fair that "first and founding member" is a more distinguished position than "was created by," which is no doubt true, just different. Bernie was the first and founding member of the CPC. In other words: He founded it. Others helped afterwards to make it what it is now.

George II

(67,782 posts)
82. That's the take of "The Hill", no one else. Edit: meant "The Nation", not "The Hill".
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:41 PM
May 2018

Last edited Wed May 30, 2018, 11:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Uncle Joe

(58,107 posts)
117. Bernie was a founding member AND it's Chairman for the first EIGHT years despite
Wed May 30, 2018, 10:49 PM
May 2018

not being a Democrat so that in itself speaks volumes in regards to his leadership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders


George II

(67,782 posts)
121. Yes, "A founding member", not "THE founding member". Glad you concur, I've been trying...
Wed May 30, 2018, 11:03 PM
May 2018

...to get someone to admit that since this afternoon.

(Edit of earlier post, I said "The Hill", meant to say "The Nation" )

Grokenstein

(5,707 posts)
68. And on the pedestal these words appear:
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:02 PM
May 2018

"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

=(

 

Wwcd

(6,288 posts)
83. "Mulling" another Pres run is hardly LBN, btw
Wed May 30, 2018, 03:43 PM
May 2018

What's LBN about it?

He never stopped campaigning after the last Pres run, has he?

 

quartz007

(1,216 posts)
132. Bernie is one of the most honest people in politics today
Wed May 30, 2018, 11:50 PM
May 2018

His net worth is small for that very reason. But crooked politicians are more clever, more rich and win more often.

PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
93. I was a big supporter of Bernie in 2016. However,
Wed May 30, 2018, 04:32 PM
May 2018

it was not Bernie, per se, but his platform that made the most sense to me.

Economic justice is a great thing (yes I agree we ALSO need social justice and to take strong steps to end racism), and Bernie's platform would genuinely make my life and the lives of my immediate family members better. Measurably better.

I saw an interesting article on Daily Kos or perhaps some other venue, and it was about how, even though pundits are really, really, really trying to pull an artificial controversy about how our party is 'split,' we're really not.

Democratic candidates are running, it seems, on these very economic issues!

So...basically, Bernie's platform without Bernie.

Because, make no mistake. It isn't Bernie that so attracts me. Rather it is:
- Universal healthcare
- Expanded Social Security
- Massive public investment in infrastructure (several Dems in my state campaigning for statewide office advocate PUBLIC BANKING)
- Strong steps to combat or at least mitigate climate change
- Along with that, a sane energy policy that emphasizes renewables and conservation
- Expanding public education to include state postsecondary schooling up to the bachelor's level
- Expanding Head Start, child nutrition and childcare subsidy programs
- Substantial cuts to the military budget, perhaps back to year 2000 levels
- Serious review of the multiple security agencies and how we could maybe get rid of the NSA?

I want some additional things too:
- We desperately need a new Fairness Doctrine - and next time I caucus, I will be introducing that to the platform at county level
- We need to force changes in corporate charters expanding the fiduciary responsibility beyond shareholders to labor, consumers, and the environment

Funny how many of the candidates running, at least in Colorado, are advocating the top list. I'm trying to educate people about the Fairness Doctrine and needed changes to corporate charters.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
99. if personal attacks worked against Trump, he wouldn't be president.
Wed May 30, 2018, 05:36 PM
May 2018

And Bernie got as far as he did by being about policy not personality.

Democrats would do well to follow his lead even if it means they lose major donors and limits their post-politics rewards.

Oneironaut

(5,461 posts)
102. Please no. We need someone new.
Wed May 30, 2018, 06:00 PM
May 2018

Bernie is going to divide our party further when we need unity more than ever. His nomination would all but guarantee a Trump re-election.

Bernie would take Trump on, but I don’t think he would have a chance of winning. We need a universally liked candidate who will unite the party with a common purpose.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
105. Will he run as a Democrat and then decline the nomination?
Wed May 30, 2018, 06:52 PM
May 2018

I mean, it seems to be SOP for him. I will NEVER vote for him in a primary. I would support him in the GE if he is the nominee, but I've had it with him and his more delusional fans. It's always gotta be about Bernie. Fuck that.

Raine

(30,540 posts)
116. I love Bernie
Wed May 30, 2018, 09:06 PM
May 2018

but I would like for a totally new person who has never run for president before to get into it.

Cha

(295,899 posts)
124. I don't like Sanders and I would love to
Wed May 30, 2018, 11:14 PM
May 2018

have someone who is brilliant and awesome at bringing everyone together

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