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Mon Mar 18, 2019, 01:54 PM

Supreme Court to consider whether Beltway sniper Lee Boyd Malvo deserves new sentencing

Source: Washington Post

The Supreme Court on Monday said it will consider whether Lee Boyd Malvo, the teenage half of the Beltway snipers who terrorized the Washington region 16 years ago, may challenge his sentence of life in prison without parole.

Malvo, 34, was a 17-year-old when he and John Allen Muhammad committed what Virginia officials called “one of the most notorious strings of terrorist acts in modern American history.” Between Sept. 5 and Oct. 22, 2002, Muhammad and Malvo killed 10 people and wounded others in sniper attacks in Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia.

Muhammad was executed in 2009, but Malvo received sentences of life without parole in Virginia and Maryland.

The Supreme Court’s actions announced Monday involve the Virginia sentences and will be heard in the term that starts in October. After a 2003 trial in which Malvo was convicted of shooting FBI analyst Linda Franklin outside a Fairfax County Home Depot store, a jury decided against the death penalty. Instead, it recommended life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

Since then, the Supreme Court’s jurisprudence on juvenile murderers has changed. It said the death penalty was off-limits for juveniles, and in 2012 said that mandatory life sentences without the possibility of parole were unconstitutional for those under 18.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-to-consider-whether-beltway-sniper-lee-boyd-malvo-deserves-new-sentencing/2019/03/18/b69cfc1e-0f9c-11e9-84fc-d58c33d6c8c7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.040308b60669

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Reply Supreme Court to consider whether Beltway sniper Lee Boyd Malvo deserves new sentencing (Original post)
Calista241 Mar 2019 OP
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #1
cannabis_flower Mar 2019 #5
Jedi Guy Mar 2019 #8
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #10
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #17
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #22
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #23
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #27
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #40
maxsolomon Apr 2019 #61
discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2019 #59
marble falls Mar 2019 #37
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #41
marble falls Mar 2019 #44
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #47
marble falls Mar 2019 #48
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #55
Blues Heron Mar 2019 #53
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #56
Blues Heron Mar 2019 #58
discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2019 #60
brooklynite Mar 2019 #35
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #36
Massacure Mar 2019 #45
Cryptoad Mar 2019 #2
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #15
MiniMe Mar 2019 #3
Botany Mar 2019 #4
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #7
Botany Mar 2019 #9
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #18
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #28
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #42
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #11
Botany Mar 2019 #38
Polybius Mar 2019 #39
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #43
mr_lebowski Mar 2019 #52
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #57
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #6
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #13
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #16
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #19
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #21
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #25
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #29
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #30
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #32
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #33
NurseJackie Mar 2019 #34
Marthe48 Mar 2019 #50
Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #12
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #14
Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #24
maxsolomon Mar 2019 #26
LongtimeAZDem Mar 2019 #54
oldsoftie Mar 2019 #20
discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2019 #31
brooklynite Mar 2019 #46
christx30 Mar 2019 #49
samnsara Mar 2019 #51

Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:12 PM

1. The quality of mercy is not strained...

The quality of mercy is not strained;
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
‘T is mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown:
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God’s
When mercy seasons justice.


Life without possibility of Parole is crueler than execution. Give him the possibility of Parole. He was a minor. He was not the mastermind of the shootings. What would it harm society if he was released as a 70 year old?

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:23 PM

5. He's not 70

Where did you get 70? He's 34.

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Response to cannabis_flower (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:34 PM

8. I think he meant if Malvo is released many years hence. N/T

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Response to cannabis_flower (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:41 PM

10. Yeah, I didn't say turn him loose now.

36 years from now, however? WHEN HE IS 70?

Would you care to address that hypothetical?

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:30 PM

17. Yeah. I've seen plenty of stories of old killers. Just had one last week nearby.

And he doesnt deserve to breath free air again. Maybe some other 17 yr old will think twice.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:35 PM

22. Ah, the deterrence argument.

do you think the DC Sniper case, and the object lesson it represents for angry young men, is taught in most American High Schools?

What about in Jamaica and Antigua, where Malvo is from?

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #22)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:36 PM

23. He wasnt shooting people in Jamaica or Antigua.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #23)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:46 PM

27. I'm referring to your assertion that other 17-year olds would think twice

before embarking on a multi-state murder spree, given Malvo's example, Old Softie.

Malvo is from Jamaica and Antigua. He was an illegal immigrant.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #27)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 09:08 PM

40. So 17 yr olds in Jamaica & Antigua dont know murdering people is wrong?

He was about 14 when he came here. He was here long enough to learn murder isnt looked upon favorably in the US

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #40)

Mon Apr 1, 2019, 01:48 PM

61. I never asserted he didn't know murdering people was wrong.

Everything is a binary opposition with you. Black/White, Right/Wrong.

In fact, everything in life has extenuating circumstances. Everything has gray areas. He was the older killer's pawn, and a MINOR when he committed these murders. Altering his sentence to Life with Parole after 35 years is going to cost society exactly nothing. Parole boards don't have to let him out then; it's a subjective decision.

Both of us will probably be in the grave, regardless.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 22, 2019, 08:33 AM

59. Was he from and area where killing and terrorism were common and...

...did he grow up seeing that behavior applauded or at least tolerated. If yes you may have an argument, otherwise no.

My take:
- death penalty = wrong
- prison for most non-violent offenders = wrong
- parole/release for most killers and rapists = wrong

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 06:09 PM

37. Thats a joke. The death penalty does do shit except murder others.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #37)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 09:10 PM

41. It wasnt a joke to the woman murdered. Fine, move him in next door to you when he's 70.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #41)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 10:23 PM

44. When you regain your composure, please respond. The fact is that the death penalty does not ...

do a thing to reduce crime. And in fact might even INCREASE murder rates by compelling murderers to to eliminate witnesses.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #44)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 05:43 AM

47. A sentence is carried out to punish the offender.

The problem is they sit on death row for decades before they're finally executed. Which is why i want the law changed as i mentioned earlier. Endless appeals, almost ALL of them having nothing to do with innocence, is where the costs come in. Change the law the way i suggest and there would be FEWER death penalty cases. The majority of the US still support the DP, and as long as crimes like this are committed thats likely to continue.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #47)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 06:59 AM

48. Nothing like speeding up the process to bury more innocent death penalty convictions ...

nothing in the world says justice like a speeded up process. Want fewer death penalties? Hand out less of them and get rid of life without parole which is itself a chickenshit version of the death penalty.

The US gives out the death penalty more than just about any other nation on the planet per capita, we have one of the largest prison populations in the world. It hasn't affected our crime and murder rate. Our system just does not work and its not a function of people sitting on death row for years and years.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #48)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 06:45 PM

55. Except my changes to the law would stop any chance of an innocent being executed.

We have the freedoms to do pretty much whatever we want here, and a few people abuse those freedoms by committing heinous crimes. The majority of the country supports executing those murderers.
We all seem to want the president who gets the most votes elected, so until the large majority turns against the DP, we should use it. But use it wisely. The law change i propose prevents innocents from execution. If you are against the DP because you think its just a bad idea, fine. I respect your opinion. But if its just because youre afraid of executing an innocent, then why not push for the change i propose.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #47)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 01:19 PM

53. Pretty hard-line for an old softie lol!

String 'em all up!

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #53)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 06:45 PM

56. Hey, i have my moments. But i love cats.

And NEVER trust a man who hates cats

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #56)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 07:54 PM

58. fair enough

I'm an ole softie too when it comes to cats, no matter what they did to my carpet!

I actually lived through the sniper incident and the shotgun stalker incident years before also in DC. Weird times. I think Malvo was pretty much under complete control of the perp. More like a Patty Hearst situation.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #58)

Fri Mar 22, 2019, 08:35 AM

60. Patty Hearst...

...heard the burst of Roland's Thompson gun and bought it.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 04:51 PM

35. OK: How about 60? 50? 40?

What's an appropriate punishment for someone who was effectively (if not legally) an adult?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #35)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 05:27 PM

36. well, his minor status is the crux of the issue, isn't it?

i'd imagine he'll have his sentence revised to life with possibility of parole after x years. let's say 35. he'd be 52. manson was up for parole multiple times, and got denied every time. the same could happen to Malvo.

I don't know how they determine minimum years to parole eligibility. do you?

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #36)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 10:32 PM

45. In Maryland he was sentenced to six consecutive life terms

If each of his six consecutive life terms were changed to life with possibility of parole after 20, he would still spend 120 years in prison. His only hope would be to see the sentences changed to run concurrently.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:18 PM

2. I forgive him but keep him locked up!

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:07 PM

15. What does your "forgiveness" mean?

I truly don't know what you mean by it.

I don't "forgive" him for his actions, yet I want him to have the possibility of parole. Even Charles Manson had that.

The SCOTUS isn't deciding whether he gets to walk out, just whether he should be re-sentenced.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:18 PM

3. He has the same sentence in Maryland

I wonder if the cases would be heard separately?

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:22 PM

4. He should never again walk as a free man.

Had family in D.C. area @ the time with young kids and both of the shooters inflicted terror
on over a million people.

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Response to Botany (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:29 PM

7. Terror isn't the half of it. The rest-area where they were apprehended was located just a few miles...

Terror isn't the half of it. We felt trapped in our own homes. Afraid to go anywhere. Grieving for those who were murdered.

The rest-area where they were apprehended was located just a few miles from where we once lived.

I wish that SOB John Allen Mohammed was still alive and suffering in prison too. But, as a dead man, his punishment ended long ago. He's dead, and he doesn't know he's dead, he doesn't care he's dead. He's NOT being punished.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:34 PM

9. I don't know how many parents were living on the edge because of those 2 shits ...

.. kids couldn't play outside, when possible people would pull their cars into a garage and close the door
before they got out of the car, walking the dog, cutting the grass, or just sitting outside for a morning
cup of coffee were not done.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:32 PM

18. But him being dead prevents him from spreading his bullshit like others do.

Prisons are full of indoctrinators.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:51 PM

28. Should they all be executed, then? I'm not sure I follow where you're going with this.

But him being dead prevents him from spreading his bullshit like others do. Prisons are full of indoctrinators.
Should they all be executed, then? Silence them all by death? I'm not sure I follow where you're going with this.

The fact that he can no longer "indoctrinate" anyone is hardly a worthwhile trade-off. If the ultimate goal (or even a major goal) was to "prevent indoctrination" then there are other ways to do that and still continue his lifelong punishment.

It's a difficult question that many struggle with. My opposition to the death penalty is based largely on the fact that death isn't a punishment... it's just revenge. Once dead, the punishment ends too. Don't get me started about the racial inequality aspects of it and the fact that mistakes DO happen and that it can't be undone.


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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #28)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 09:18 PM

42. IMO, yes, ANY serial or spree killer like that should be executed. IF there is NO doubt of guilt.

Which we've been thru on other threads.
AND keep their names out of the news; no notoriety for them. Not to mention how some gravitate to them once in prison; the "groupies" so to speak. We saw that with Manson. And more recently Scot Peterson.

But the DP law MUST to be changed so only those with absolute guilt are charged with it. Such as the NZ shooter from this weekend. Of course, that one wasnt in the US, but its a good example of who should get it. Sadly there are plenty of cases that fit the criteria
And while we're at it, any prosecutor caught withholding evidence that would exonerate ANY criminal should do SOME jail time.

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Response to Botany (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:55 PM

11. What do you make of the fact he was 17

And under the influence of a much darker personality, who was found to be more culpable (in that he was sentenced to death) in the terror?

I'm not arguing that Malvo doesn't have a sentence to serve for his actions. I'm asking if Life w/o Parole is an appropriate sentence for a minor.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 08:24 PM

39. 17 is knocking on legality's door

If he were 12, it might be different.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #39)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 09:20 PM

43. After all, theres a push from some to lower the voting age to 16.

So you're old enough to know who should run the country, but not old enough to know not to murder people. Great.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #43)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 01:15 PM

52. Fine, lets lower the voting age to 16, and charge 16 year old and up as adults

While we're at it, we should also change the age of consent to 16 to have sex with anyone of any age, or to appear in porn or work in strip clubs. To join the military and to sign other enforceable contracts. To buy cigs. To not lose your license til you're 18 for getting caught with alcohol. To sign your own notes for absences for school. Hell, to drop out of school. Or to get married.

Oh what's that? The people arguing for turning 16 into the age of adulthood ... didn't mean for ALL THAT, which should really all logically 'follow' if we're being consistent about what constitutes 'Adulthood'?

Shocking.

No one should be legally charged as a adult until they are 18, IMHO. Either you're an adult, with attending rights and privileges, or you're NOT.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #52)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 06:48 PM

57. I agree with this message. But pick-and-choose is exactly what some are now proposing.

Hell, 16 yr old kids today are eating detergent. I dont think they've earned the voting right just yet

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:25 PM

6. No! The victims are dead forever. He should remain in prison forever...

No! The victims are dead forever. He should remain in prison forever... or until he dies... whichever comes first.

I wish John Allen Muhammad was still in prison. Suffering and wishing he was free. But, no... unfortunately his punishment ended the moment he was executed. He's not even aware that he's dead. He's not suffering and he's NOT being punished.

Pity.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:01 PM

13. Do all homicides deserve Life w/o Parole?

All victims, even of 2nd degree Manslaughter, are dead forever. I'll assume you would allow for qualitative differences to affect sentencing. 1st degree Murder v. 2nd degree Manslaughter, etc.

As the article notes, the SCOTUS has already ruled that minors should not be sentenced to Life w/o Parole. Do you disagree with that ruling?

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:28 PM

16. Not all. But this one, yes.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:32 PM

19. You didn't address the SCOTUS ruling question.

They've said his current sentence is unconstitutional for minors.

I'd like to know if you agree with that.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:34 PM

21. He was tried as an adult. I agree with that.

Make of it what you will.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #21)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:39 PM

25. I make of it that he was unconstitutionally sentenced to life w/o parole.

And therefore should be re-sentenced under current standards. Which would probably mean life with the possibility of parole.

Although the newly constituted Trump Court might agree with your wishes for punishment.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #25)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:51 PM

29. Charming.

Although the newly constituted Trump Court might agree with your wishes for punishment.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #29)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 04:17 PM

30. There seem to be 4 main purposes to Prison sentences:

Retribution
Incapacitation
Deterrence
Rehabilitation.

Your focus is on the 1st. The Death Penalty & Life w/o Parole are the extremes of this purpose, and dispense with #4.

My focus is on 2 & 4. I don't think 3 even applies to a case like the DC Sniper - too sui generis.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #30)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 04:23 PM

32. Give up. You'll never change my mind.

You're wasting your time. And mine.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #32)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 04:29 PM

33. You won't explain your position

or think about it, so I don't have much of a choice.

DU is surprisingly Conservative in a lot of ways, which I chalk up to the average age of commenters. At least there aren't a lot of calls for Prison Rape in these "throw away the key" threads any more.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #33)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 04:37 PM

34. I don't need to justify or explain anything...

You won't explain your position
I don't need to justify or explain anything to anyone. I don't need to be lectured or scolded by anyone either.

DU is surprisingly Conservative in a lot of ways,
That is not my problem. And in spite of the rude insinuation, I'm not "part of the problem" either. I'm afraid that's something to take up with the admins, or just find some other way to deal with it instead of complaining to me.

At least there aren't a lot of calls for Prison Rape in these "throw away the key" threads any more.
Sure. Okay. Whatever.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #30)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 12:56 PM

50. I think there's other reasons for prison sentences

Cheap labor and money. The for-profit prisons are making money by using prisoners to supply labor. The idea of holding people in jail cells to punish them has only been around for a little under 200 yrs. Originally, people were put in cells to think about what they'd done and maybe feel contrition. The idea of prison has changed. The goals have changed.
If criminal children are treated with a modicum of compassion by the courts, maybe good children will get some compassion, too, and get food, shelter, education and other security that are being taken away.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:56 PM

12. Uh-uh. Life. 17 is old enough to know about murdering innocent people.

Although I'm "mature," I distinctly remember being 17 (and 16 and 15, and so on).

Even as a teenager, I was fully aware of the horror of murder and if I had killed innocent people, esp under sniping circumstances, I would have been as fully culpable and aware as if I were 21.

He should never be free.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:03 PM

14. It's like no one reads the articles.

"Since then, the Supreme Court’s jurisprudence on juvenile murderers has changed. It said the death penalty was off-limits for juveniles, and in 2012 said that mandatory life sentences without the possibility of parole were unconstitutional for those under 18."

DU's desires for vengeance are to the right of the Roberts Court that had Scalia on it.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:38 PM

24. How is life w/o parole to the right of the death penalty?

That was Scalia's opinion.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #24)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:44 PM

26. I'd say it's crueler, therefore to the "right".

Life in a Supermax, waiting for death, could be considered torture. I would look at it that way. Death would be a mercy. Inmates kill themselves to end their misery all the time.

But I'm not Scalia, so I don't have his brilliant insights.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #26)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 02:09 PM

54. I agree that LwoP are is crueler. If he wishes to petition for execution, I would support that.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:33 PM

20. Thats it. I, too, remember well being that age. Knew better than to shoot people.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 04:21 PM

31. IMO...

...if the determination is made for a minor that the individual is sufficiently culpable and not mostly dominated by another involving the crime, that person, if found guilty, deserves life w/o parole.

I'm against the death penalty.

I'm against prison time for almost all non-violent offenders.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #31)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 10:41 PM

46. Paul Manafort will certainly approve...

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #46)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 10:27 AM

49. I agree with you.

People can do some awful things and hurt others in a nonviolent way. Embezzleing millions of dollars can destroy the retirement of hundreds of people. Refusing to pay child support is nonviolent, but can take care away from a kid. There needs to be a disincentive to doing these terrible things.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Tue Mar 19, 2019, 01:00 PM

51. at 34 hes just as dangerous as he was at 17

...lock him up forever..

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