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BumRushDaShow

(127,331 posts)
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 01:24 PM Feb 2021

The Justice Dept. drops a lawsuit accusing Yale of discriminating against Asian-American

Source: New York Times

The Justice Department on Wednesday withdrew a lawsuit against Yale that charged the university with discriminating against Asian-American and white applicants for admission, another reversal by the new administration of a Trump-era policy.

The move is a major step against Asian-American complaints of racial discrimination in college admissions that have arisen at a number of campuses. In 2019, a federal judge rejected claims that Harvard had intentionally discriminated against Asian-American applicants, but the plaintiffs are expected to file a petition to the Supreme Court.

Yale welcomed the Biden administration’s decision, saying it was pleased that the hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding it receives annually were no longer in jeopardy, as the Trump administration has threatened.“Yale is gratified that the U.S. Justice Department has dropped its lawsuit challenging Yale College’s admissions practices,” Karen N. Peart, a spokeswoman, said in a statement. “Our admissions process has allowed Yale College to assemble an unparalleled student body, which is distinguished by its academic excellence and diversity.”

The “notice of voluntary dismissal” of the Yale lawsuit, filed in Federal District Court in Connecticut on Wednesday, does not give any reason for the Justice Department’s decision. It noted that Yale had not filed any answering papers in the action. But the move does not mean that the lawsuit against Yale is dead. Students for Fair Admission, the organization that sued Harvard, plans to pick it up and refile it under their name.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/02/03/us/biden-administration/the-justice-dept-drops-a-lawsuit-accusing-yale-of-discriminating-against-asian-american-and-white-applicants



Full headline: The Justice Dept. drops a lawsuit accusing Yale of discriminating against Asian-American and white applicants.
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The Justice Dept. drops a lawsuit accusing Yale of discriminating against Asian-American (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Feb 2021 OP
Yale receives hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding annually. OneCrazyDiamond Feb 2021 #1
I think that means student loans and maybe some research grants TexasBushwhacker Feb 2021 #8
I hope so. OneCrazyDiamond Feb 2021 #12
Churches don't pay taxes TexasBushwhacker Feb 2021 #14
I am usually good with charities being tax exempt, and consider most churches to be charitable. OneCrazyDiamond Feb 2021 #15
I'm sorry but I just don't understand ripcord Feb 2021 #2
Because they performed well academically and are overrepresented Lucky Luciano Feb 2021 #3
They are BumRushDaShow Feb 2021 #4
So you are OK with this being applied to first generation Asian-Americans from the same communities? ripcord Feb 2021 #5
Don't buy into the "model minority" stereotype for Asians BumRushDaShow Feb 2021 #9
So if everyone from the same neighborhoods are working hard and sacrificing ripcord Feb 2021 #10
The lawsuit is from a group claiming on behalf of some of them, of "being punished" BumRushDaShow Feb 2021 #11
In this case, Asians are being exploited for the sake of dismantling affirmative action turtleblossom Feb 2021 #6
So, best if they are discriminated against now? MichMan Feb 2021 #16
Test scores alone, should not be a factor for college admission. turtleblossom Feb 2021 #7
Overhyping inherent bias as intential bias is as bad as not recognizing any bias. SharonClark Feb 2021 #13
Lawsuit Was Based on a Myth erpowers Mar 2021 #17
The current law is that racial quotas even to meet affirmative action goals are not allowed andym Mar 2021 #18
Timing of this is less than ideal considering what's going on the country involving Asian Americans inwiththenew Mar 2021 #19
It is a necro from a month and a half ago ripcord Mar 2021 #20
See ripcord's response BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #21
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2021 #22

TexasBushwhacker

(20,044 posts)
8. I think that means student loans and maybe some research grants
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 12:48 AM
Feb 2021

Yale is a private university with a $30 BILLION endowment. They should not be getting federal funds.

OneCrazyDiamond

(2,029 posts)
15. I am usually good with charities being tax exempt, and consider most churches to be charitable.
Fri Feb 5, 2021, 05:39 PM
Feb 2021

It is just hard to call Lakewood a church, and their history of charity is gross.

Fun fact, Yale doesn't pay taxes either. They are exempt under the same rules as churches.

Yale University is a private corporation. For tax purposes, the University is covered under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

https://your.yale.edu/research-support/office-sponsored-projects/resources/frequently-needed-yale-facts

Kinda sad we consider education a charity.

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
2. I'm sorry but I just don't understand
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 08:38 PM
Feb 2021

Why aren't Asian-Americans consider the same as other minorities for reasons of admission?

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
3. Because they performed well academically and are overrepresented
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 09:05 PM
Feb 2021

...relative to their population.

I don’t think it’s fair. Many of them come from poor immigrant families and they should be given the chance to succeed based on their discipline and perseverance to perform academically.

That said, Asian cultures value test scores and grades over all else and may not do enough of the intangibles that are considered as well. My wife from Japan has nieces and only their test scores count. If they don’t do well on the test, they study for a year to take it again. Fail again? Study for another year and take it yet again! They passed the first time, but some cousin failed to get into Med school three times until they finally passed - yes, they were well to do.

I’ve also heard that the bias against Asians occurs even when they load up on the extracurriculars.

BumRushDaShow

(127,331 posts)
4. They are
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 09:18 PM
Feb 2021

except that many are actually children from the top 1% (and thus coming in with higher grades/test scores, having attended high end schools with special tutors, etc) and are by no means representative of the "average" or "typical" students within their groups, but are presented to "society" as the stereotypical "model minorities". So when you have a number of them all applying to the same types of schools, the school is faced with a dilemma.

Meanwhile other minorities who have been multi-generationally denied access to the resources (functional school buildings, smaller class sizes, good teachers who are not chronically absent, actual internet access or even a library), have everything going against them when attempting to apply to these types of colleges/universities, regardless of their aptitudes - let alone trying to deal with the financial burden. It then leaves "society" with the impression that they are "naturally inferior".

The system of racism/white supremacy has, for centuries, been set up so that "white" is considered "superior", "black" is considered "inferior", and anyone "in between" can be considered "honorary white" (depending on how they feel).

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
5. So you are OK with this being applied to first generation Asian-Americans from the same communities?
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 10:05 PM
Feb 2021

Sounds like they are being punished for working harder and sacrificing more.

BumRushDaShow

(127,331 posts)
9. Don't buy into the "model minority" stereotype for Asians
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 05:31 AM
Feb 2021

There are MANY MANY students of all ethnicities and racial groups who are "working harder and sacrificing more", but who just because of the fucking color of their skin, their fucking zip code, and fucking names like "Shan'neequa" or "D'Shon", are punished every fucking day.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/12/countering-stereotypes

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
10. So if everyone from the same neighborhoods are working hard and sacrificing
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 11:48 AM
Feb 2021

Why should Asian-Americans be singled out and punished?

BumRushDaShow

(127,331 posts)
11. The lawsuit is from a group claiming on behalf of some of them, of "being punished"
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 12:37 PM
Feb 2021

I expect the vast majority are either not or do not feel they are being impacted or "punished". And meanwhile every other "hard working (minority) group" is also being "punished" because of the process of how these schools select enrollees. Whoever "files the lawsuit" gets in the news.

When you look at the general population, only about 1/4 of the population actually goes on to post-secondary institutions. And even with that, it's only been recently where even that many have thanks to opportunities like the GI bill after WW2 (and beyond), vs the 75% who either stop at a high school degree (or GED) or never finish secondary schooling.

This is nothing more than a redux of the Bakke case.

Black communities have been filing lawsuits for well over a century for the same thing, including when trying to deal with what were strict "quotas" set up by some of the few schools that even admitted blacks (most did not), in order to limit black enrollment. My own grandfather was told he couldn't apply to UPenn Medical School because "they had their 2 niggers" but he was "welcome" to apply to their Dental School, which he did, was admitted, and graduated in 1924.

Welcome to America. This is as American as apple pie. Don't buy into the divisive issues being skewed here as something "new".

turtleblossom

(504 posts)
6. In this case, Asians are being exploited for the sake of dismantling affirmative action
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 12:26 AM
Feb 2021

In the event when it is dismantled, guess what? Asians may still face discrimination.

turtleblossom

(504 posts)
7. Test scores alone, should not be a factor for college admission.
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 12:32 AM
Feb 2021

If only you knew the history behind college admission exams such as the SAT and ACT, you will know it began by racist eugenicists to show the superiority of rich white people. They made it as biased as they possibly screen out poor people and minorities.

SharonClark

(10,005 posts)
13. Overhyping inherent bias as intential bias is as bad as not recognizing any bias.
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 02:46 PM
Feb 2021

"racist eugenicists to show the superiority of rich white people"
"They made it as biased as they possibly screen out poor people and minorities".

Do you have evidence that such extreme results were the intent of the test creators?

erpowers

(9,350 posts)
17. Lawsuit Was Based on a Myth
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 11:16 AM
Mar 2021

I think this lawsuit was based on a myth. I do not think Asians and Whites are discriminated against in college admissions. I do not think Asians are held to a higher standard in college admissions. The credentials of the student applying to elite colleges are better than the average students that are discuss by the media.

The media always compares the scores of Asian students to the scores of the average black student. I do not think the average black student is applying to elite universities. The black student that are applying to elite universities more than likely have similar scores to Asians students. Also, the competition to get into elite colleges is higher than at lower level colleges. I do not think anyone ever said an Asian kid with high math score should not be admitted to an elite college because all Asians have high math scores. I think the person actually said the Asian kids math scores were not impressive because everyone who had applied to that particular university had high math scores.

I think the real problem that Asian student are facing is that what is impressive at a particular high school may not be impressive at the college level, especially at the elite college level. Taking a large number of AP courses may be impressive at a particular high school, but may not be impressive at the elite college level. Playing one, or two instruments may be impressive at a particular high school, but may not be impressive at the elite college level.

When Asian kid who have taken multiple AP courses and play one, or two instruments apply to elite colleges they end up competing against kids who are mainly just like them. They compete against kids who have taken multiple AP courses and play one, two, or more instruments. As a result, it is likely that some admissions staff members look at the applications of Asian students, that at particular high school looked exceptional, and say the applications are not impressive because everyone applying to that university has the same type of application as the Asian kid.

andym

(5,441 posts)
18. The current law is that racial quotas even to meet affirmative action goals are not allowed
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 12:34 PM
Mar 2021

because of the Bakke case in 1978, when Bakke sued for being discriminated on the basis of being white, only goals or timetables are allowed.

Universities have denied maintaining quotas against Asians but because Asian percentages have been constant at many Ivy league universities (but not the University of California for example) despite great variations in the numbers of Asians applying from year to year, there have been charges that Asian numbers are being limited lower than their reported high test scores and good grades should allow for. Universities claim they use holistic guidelines and that quotas don't exist. It's unclear whether they have "guidelines."

Many think that regardless of the justice department's participation, the "Students for Fair Admission" organization will continue the lawsuit, and should the case reach the conservative Supreme Court, the court will rule for the Asian and white students.


Here is an interesting article which gives a variety of opinions on the subject:
https://thepolitic.org/the-discrimination-debate-asian-americans-and-ivy-league-admissions/
thepolitic is published by Yale, btw.

Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

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