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Mon Nov 1, 2021, 02:52 PM

Manchin says he won't back $1.75 trillion economic agenda bill without 'greater clarity' about its e

Last edited Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:39 PM - Edit history (2)

Source: CNN

Sen. Joe Manchin said he won't support the $1.75 trillion reconciliation bill Democrats are negotiating until there is "greater clarity" about the impact it will have on the country's national debt and the economy, a warning sign for Democratic leaders trying to pass a pair of legislative packages key to President Joe Biden's agenda as soon as this week.

"Simply put, I will not support a bill that is this consequential without thoroughly understanding the impact that it will have on our national debt, our economy and most importantly all of our American people," Manchin said at a news conference Monday afternoon.

Manchin also called on the House of Representatives to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill and warned, in an implicit rebuke to progressives, that "holding this bill hostage" won't work in getting him to support the larger social spending and economic package. Manchin has been non-committal about that larger package since Biden released a framework, but reiterated major concerns today.

The moderate Democrat from West Virginia has been coy about his views of this proposal, despite months of efforts by Biden and his team to court the senator to back a pared back plan. But Manchin has been concerned about a number of proposals, including an expansion of Medicare.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/01/politics/joe-manchin-biden-agenda/index.html



So, Manchin shows us exactly where he stands... right smack in the way blocking the Build Back Better reconciliation bill.

After all the negotiations and all the concessions made to appease him and all the one on one talks with the President at the White House, Manchin still flat out refuses to support President Biden's agenda.

So much for his "negotiating in good faith"...



Note: This was posted with the complete original headline, but CNN updated the article and now leads with the headline:

Manchin warns he may vote against Biden social safety net plan as he criticizes key aspects

Sen. Joe Manchin said he won't support the $1.75 trillion social safety net expansion bill Democrats are negotiating until there is "greater clarity" about the impact it will have on the country's national debt and the economy, casting major doubt about whether President Joe Biden can get his agenda through Congress.

At a news conference on Monday afternoon, Manchin laid out fundamental concerns over the approach that Biden and his party are taking in their sweeping agenda. He rejected the party's push to expand social programs and castigated Democrats for using "gimmicks" to hide the true cost of the plan and said far more time is needed to evaluate its economic impact to guard against potential negative consequences.

Despite months of a lobbying campaign by the White House to win over Manchin, including by cutting the price tag in half and making cuts to key programs, the West Virginia moderate's comments indicate that Democrats may never be able to win his support on this proposal.

"I'm open to supporting a final bill that helps move our country forward, but I am equally open to voting against a bill that hurts our country," he said in a warning shot to his party.

The comments come at a critical time for Biden's agenda and are a major blow to party leaders who had been hoping to imminently pass the social safety net plan along with a separate $1 trillion infrastructure bill.

Democratic leaders had been trying to pass both measures, which are key to Biden's agenda, as soon as this week. Manchin's comments make clear that is unlikely to happen.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/01/politics/joe-manchin-biden-agenda/index.html

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Reply Manchin says he won't back $1.75 trillion economic agenda bill without 'greater clarity' about its e (Original post)
bluewater Nov 2021 OP
msongs Nov 2021 #1
Historic NY Nov 2021 #2
hamsterjill Nov 2021 #5
LenaBaby61 Nov 2021 #48
bluewater Nov 2021 #7
eShirl Nov 2021 #3
BlueJac Nov 2021 #4
bluewater Nov 2021 #6
FoxNewsSucks Nov 2021 #8
duforsure Nov 2021 #9
cstanleytech Nov 2021 #10
Irish_Dem Nov 2021 #12
Rebl2 Nov 2021 #39
quakerboy Nov 2021 #57
jalan48 Nov 2021 #11
RobinA Nov 2021 #13
Historic NY Nov 2021 #17
h2ebits Nov 2021 #53
orangecrush Nov 2021 #56
HUAJIAO Nov 2021 #14
hamsterjill Nov 2021 #22
HUAJIAO Nov 2021 #30
hamsterjill Nov 2021 #41
HUAJIAO Nov 2021 #44
hamsterjill Nov 2021 #45
eilen Nov 2021 #63
rickyhall Nov 2021 #25
Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #28
LenaBaby61 Nov 2021 #49
quakerboy Nov 2021 #58
ExTex Nov 2021 #15
bucolic_frolic Nov 2021 #16
BlueTsunami2018 Nov 2021 #18
Mickju Nov 2021 #27
empedocles Nov 2021 #19
snort Nov 2021 #20
PoliticAverse Nov 2021 #21
BradAllison Nov 2021 #23
cilla4progress Nov 2021 #24
hamsterjill Nov 2021 #42
eilen Nov 2021 #64
hamsterjill Nov 2021 #66
wildman76 Nov 2021 #26
H2Oart Nov 2021 #29
hamsterjill Nov 2021 #43
LenaBaby61 Nov 2021 #50
rurallib Nov 2021 #31
left-of-center2012 Nov 2021 #32
in2herbs Nov 2021 #33
left-of-center2012 Nov 2021 #34
Desert Dog Nov 2021 #35
nwliberalkiwi Nov 2021 #36
JohnSJ Nov 2021 #37
Mr.Bill Nov 2021 #38
LiberalLovinLug Nov 2021 #40
Vinca Nov 2021 #46
Evolve Dammit Nov 2021 #47
LiberalFighter Nov 2021 #51
Sapient Donkey Nov 2021 #52
Eyeball_Kid Nov 2021 #54
oasis Nov 2021 #55
Bayard Nov 2021 #59
Marcuse Nov 2021 #60
MustLoveBeagles Nov 2021 #65
durablend Nov 2021 #61
myohmy2 Nov 2021 #62
Joinfortmill Nov 2021 #67
Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2021 #68
zanana1 Nov 2021 #69
LudwigPastorius Nov 2021 #70

Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 02:54 PM

1. mitch mcconnell is happy as a clam to hear this. is the check in the mail? nt

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 02:56 PM

2. Here we go again, Biden wonder why his numbers are sinking

because he isn't able to get anything through this 2 person road block. The media wants a horse race, so they get the dissenters as much media exposure as they can to help, them. Democrats just can't get over themselves long enough.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 02:59 PM

5. Exactly.

The naÔvetť of the Dems is just incredible. What in the hell did they THINK Manchin was going to do?

Itís not a done deal until itís a done deal. Biden was trying to save face before his overseas trip and now that has backfired because he trusted Manchin.

You canít trust Manchin!!!!

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 06:41 PM

48. THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:00 PM

7. +1000

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 02:57 PM

3. he just keeps stringing it along as long as possible

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 02:57 PM

4. When Biden is out of country...

Joe Manchin plays back stabber, and bully

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Response to BlueJac (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:00 PM

6. "Joe Manchin plays back stabber, and bully'

Seems so.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:01 PM

8. THis is exactly what was expected.

Can't wait for his suckups to come along and tell us why we "must love" Manchin.

What an asshole, whining about debt while obstructing the paid-for bill. And demanding passage of the deficit-increasing bill.

Fuck him.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:01 PM

9. Excuse after excuse,

Follow the money why he keeps doing this.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:02 PM

10. Ok, its official Manchin is an asshole. nt

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:03 PM

12. The names I am calling him are much worse.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:40 PM

39. Yes he

is and we have known it for months now.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 07:03 AM

57. Can we just call him a Republican now

The sooner he and sinema make it official, the more chance there is that the voters will understand why Biden has been unable to get legislation through.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:02 PM

11. Fuck Joe Machin and his fossil fuel industry industry buddies.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:04 PM

13. Well, His Problem

will soon be solved. The bill gets less consequential with each passing day.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:09 PM

17. I've said before Biden needs to go to West Va. hell, hook up with the Governor..

he's a Republican in favor of the infrastructure and leave Manchin at his swanky DCdigs. Give a speech talk to the people, The Biden effect isn't working, its time to be using the Johnson sledgehammer. Civility isn't working so its time to take it to the regular people

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 07:11 PM

53. I agree! Biden needs to go to West Virginia. . . .

and do a "tour"

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 02:17 AM

56. THIS

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:06 PM

14. It is REPUBLICANS who are blocking the bill !!!!!!!!!!!!


Where is the fucking media on this?

Duh ! Don't ask...

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:23 PM

22. I agree with your point, but it's up to the Democrats to circumvent the media.

If that's what it takes - and it's obviously going to take that. Dems needs to get their messaging straight, concise, louder and bolder. And they need to do it NOW. Kind of difficult with Manchin sabotaging everything any chance he gets. That part (i.e., Manchin and Sinema if she starts anything) needs to be addressed in the messaging, too.

The media is out for ratings; they don't give a rat's ass about votes.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:17 PM

30. Absolutely right.

And... I would repeat you--

MESSAGING !!!!!!!!

Shit, they could hire any number of folks right here on DU who would do a hell of a lot better job than they do--- Which is basically, nothing...

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:54 PM

41. Agreed.

Iíve spent time wondering if Dems are just clueless as to this, or whether they are doing it on purpose. Itís a common critique and the leadership has GOT to know that more needs to be done. Donít you think?

Biden does a great town hall and I think he should do them more often. But I also think he needs to stop using some of the same old folksy statements (ďmy father always saidĒ, etc.) and get more direct and concise. Yes, folksy IS part of Bidenís charm, but televised air time ANYWHERE has a time limit.

Klobuchar is great at messaging as is Booker. I like Jackie Spier and Katie Porter in the House. They both have their ducks in a row before they speak. There are many others who could be surrogates for Biden and the party. Storm the airwaves!!!

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #41)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 05:10 PM

44. I believe they just have no clue there is a vicious war going on.

It's like they are trying to have nice meetings while the Nazis are over-running Europe!!
It is just mind boggling. I mean, we're not supposed to criticize democrats here, but JFC, these people don't seem to have a clue how to fight....

And also run ersatz ads.
Hit social media...
And when they DO get on MSM and reginal and local TV TELL THE REAL TRUTH about what is happening....



Sorry, but some days I just can't put up with it. I live in a town/city of abou6t20,000 in Upstate NY and even repubs running for local elections are getting into all this shit-- lies accusations, distorions, personal threats of violence... WTF, man !!


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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #44)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 05:14 PM

45. I'm in Texas

I see the Republican shit every single day. If Dems donít wise up and start fighting, democracy is lost. Itís that simple.

In Texas, itís not fiction. Itís fact. And Texas has been the Republican experiment to see how far they can get with the rest of the country.



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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #44)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 10:06 PM

63. I am also in upstate (central NY)

And seriously.. the messaging is incompetent. Are they not realizing that people are blaming Biden for inflation, supply chain delays etc? I just hate myself for saying that Trump had some genius PR reflexes in tweeting his opinions and probably ineffectual-- at best actions to retaliate against economic forces detrimental to his base. Biden or his surrogates need to hammer this.

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:57 PM

25. Right there with their Billionaire Bosses as usual.

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:13 PM

28. The corporate media seems to forget there are 50x more Republicans blocking the bill. While

deliberately forgetting also to mention to the public of the benefits in the bill.

See how that works?

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 06:42 PM

49. THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 07:05 AM

58. The Republicans, including S&M

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Response to bluewater (Original post)


Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:09 PM

16. Person who can't understand complexity demands complex explanation to the last detail

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:12 PM

18. I absolutely hate this guy.

As much, if not more than any Republican because you expect Republicans to be total fucking scumbags. I never thought he was a good guy but being an utterly unredeemable piece of shit is bit more than I expected.

Heís intentionally giving the country over to the fascists. And that makes him filth.

Hide this if you want but Iím tired of trying to pretend this bastard has any worthy qualities. Heís a vile asshole.

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Response to BlueTsunami2018 (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:09 PM

27. Right on!

I agree completely.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:20 PM

19. The 'clarity' argument

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:20 PM

20. Fuck you Man Chin Coal Millionaire motherfucker

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:21 PM

21. Video of his statement here...

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:29 PM

23. West Virginia Joe won't vote for it until it's just a tax cut for the 1%

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 03:52 PM

24. Time to blackmail him.

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:58 PM

42. Probably not even necessary.

But I like how you think. Iíve been screaming that he needs to be brought in line and the push back has always been that we nice, refined Democrats couldnít do that. It wouldnít be fair!!!

Well truth be told itís probably not even necessary. With all of his family stuff, thereís probably plenty of factual and real information that just needs to be ďstressedĒ publicly. All legal, of course.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #42)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 10:10 PM

64. But first we need to elect more Democrats in the Senate.

It is a numbers game. If he changes his party we are in the minority and there is no chance any of those bills comes up for a vote.
This is what we have.
It sucks. But it is reality.

However, in 2022, we have the opportunity to turn out and vote and make the Manchin/Sinema issue irrelevant.

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Response to eilen (Reply #64)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 10:38 PM

66. Look, I like the optimism.

But if Manchin and Sinema arenít dealt with before the midterms, I donít think we have a chance in hell of winning more seats.

Look at Virginia tonight! Voters are tired of Democrats not being able to get their shit together. Iím sorry is thatís offensive to you or to anyone, but itís the honest truth as I see it.

The opportunity is the remaining year before the midterms to prove to voters that Dems are strong, united, and ready to fight for this country.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:02 PM

26. Has nothing to do with clarity, he's all about the taxes on the wealthy

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:16 PM

29. The problem

 

The problem is none of our elected offices are LBJ. He would have had Manchin and Simenon up against the wall...Ē pointing out the error of their waysĒ

Where is Schumer? What the hell is he doing about this? If Manchin wants to switch parties, then just do it, find a repub that is feed up with MoscowMitches shit and recruit.

This vote is the the mid term election, and if it fails, then go home and prepare for the most unprecedented onslaught of right wing congress and Senators you have ever seen. There will be no need for the republicans to get rid of the filibuster, because they will have at least 60 seats. Sorry, but I am a realist. Being in my late 60ís, I have seen it all before, but never what the right is doing now, and to think of another Trump, Hailey, McConnell, McCarthy leadership, plus old, retiring Supreme Court justices.....not a good look....As a South Carolina resident, I live with the right wing shit everyday.

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Response to H2Oart (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:59 PM

43. +1000

n/t

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Response to H2Oart (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 06:43 PM

50. THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:19 PM

31. Gee, what a surprise. Lobbyists get your checkbooks out.

Joe will be looking for some checks.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:22 PM

32. Here we go again !

Why Joe, why ?

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:25 PM

33. Go back to the $3.75T and explain to voters that this amount over a 10-year period is far, far less

that what the Military budget is over the next 10-year period. In other words do some effective messaging Democrats! By pushing it back to $3.75T -- which the public supports --- it will expose all the no voters in congress.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:25 PM

34. How much could Biden do using 'Executive orders' ?

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:28 PM

35. Jeebus H.

The corporate Democrats are pathetic and have zero accountability. Manchin might as well be GQP because you can negotiate with him for weeks and he STILL wont support the bill.

It is time to write the BBB bill and vote on it. If it fails, then we will rap it around Manchin and Sinema's neck. We might as well consider infrastructure dead. There is NO WAY the house should vote on it in this environment. Manchin is lying. Sinema looks like she is posturing to get something passed. Is the divide Climate Change? Sinema is for addressing it in some manner, but it seems to conflict with Manchin's bank roll. Can we divide and conquer with these loons? Who wants to be the one Senator that stands in the way? Tweak the bill to get one of them and make the other vote against it. That is all we have. See if one of them folds.

NO vote on infrastructure until BBB vote is done. Agreeing to framework is not good enough. If BBB fails, we rework BOTH bills as one reconciliation bill and sell it in early 2022.. Make it mostly about infrastructure with a few BBB items. Then Dem's pass it 100% on their own. Make GOP vote against infrastructure and improved elderly care / child welfare. Will Dem clowns run from that too? They need to KNOW that their precious infrastructure bill is DOA. This entire negotiation period has been Kabuki theatre. Manchin and Sinema do not want any reconciliation bill passed and are only pretending to care until infrastructure passes. Then it is off to a triathlon or yacht exhibition. I honestly think they are trying to run out the clock. Maybe a health issue with a Democratic senator will save them? Kinda like hoping your teacher is sick so you dont have to take a test.

Under 300k people voted for Joe Manchin and he is holding up progress for 350 million. What an ego-maniacal creep he is. If we improve our Senate numbers in 2022, we should ask him to leave the party. He is an embarrassment.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:32 PM

36. What Do You Expect From Manchin

What Do You Expect From Manchin, his daughter killed people just to make a buck!!! What a piece of shit family.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:36 PM

37. Just pass the bipartisan bill then, and follow up with the reconciliation infrastructure bill

giving Manchin whatever he wants. We cannot keep playing this game on the whim of two people anymore

In the meantime do whatever it takes to make Manchin and Sinema irrelevant via the 2022 midterms

Most important, stop talking to the press about the status of this. The press is not a neutral party


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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:37 PM

38. Does he need someone to

read it for him?

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 04:49 PM

40. Gawd I wish Democrats could get a bigger majority one time.

Enough to vote over corporate shill attention seekers like Manchin and Sinema.


If its not Joe Lieberman its Manchin or Sinema.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 05:17 PM

46. I swear this guy must be on the RNC payroll.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 06:24 PM

47. Such a dick. What a total waste as a Dem

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 06:56 PM

51. Does he know how to read?

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 06:57 PM

52. Wow. I know many said this was going to happen

but I didn't think it actually would. Fucking guy.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon Nov 1, 2021, 07:23 PM

54. Manchin is cementing his reputation as a contrarian pain in the ass.

That reputation will be his legacy.

Manchin stands for nothing except his own self-importance. All of his "no"s give him air time. His name is in lights. That's it. Oh. And one other thing: he stands arm in arm with billionaires and the fossil fuel industry. He will never abandon them. He identifies entirely with the wealthy elites. The little people mean nothing to him.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 12:35 AM

55. "No Billionaire Left Behind"

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 12:21 PM

59. Gawd DAMN this man!!!

As someone has pointed out previously, its like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football with Lucy holding it! When he said he'd vote for it, he was afraid of losing all the pandering attention he's gotten for months for being a contrarian.

This statement is just moronic:
"I will not support a bill that is this consequential without thoroughly understanding the impact that it will have on our national debt, our economy and most importantly all of our American people," He's had this explained to him ad nauseam. I agree--its time to go all LBJ on his ass! Go back to the $3T bill, and cram it down his and Sinema's throat.

I officially hate him.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 01:07 PM

60. "I will not support a ball that is this consequential without thoroughly understanding the impact.."

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Response to Marcuse (Reply #60)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 10:27 PM

65. Spot on

I said to my husband yesterday that Manchin is like Lucy with the football. All day today he's be calling him Lucy.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 01:27 PM

61. He's going to water it down then blow it up anyway?

Amiright?

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 03:12 PM

62. worse...

...than no bill is a bad bill and manchin wants a bad bill...

...all manchin is going to end up doing is to elect pukes and trump...

...what a 'Democrat'...

...

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Tue Nov 2, 2021, 10:45 PM

67. We can't say anything negative about Dems. So,

I have nothing to say about Manchin.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Wed Nov 3, 2021, 09:06 AM

68. Stop being angry long enough to consider Manchins position

The President is at a Climate Change conference and apologizes for pulling out of the Paris accords.

Then Joe Manchin (D - Coal) has problems with Biden's budget.

I get that we support climate change prevention. Manchin represents a constituency for which Climate Change legislation means lost livelihoods-- not just for the miners and drillers, but for truckers, machine shops, fabricators, equipment dealers, and railroads that support fossil fuel in WV.

Biden needs to start linking his policies more directly to a soft landing and clear alternative future for these folks.

Biden also needs to slam wind power critics at every turn, and point out how many jobs that industry now supports.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Wed Nov 3, 2021, 10:17 AM

69. Manchin wants to see headlines that start with...

"Manchin says".

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Wed Nov 3, 2021, 01:38 PM

70. I know there's a "D" next to his name, but...

Old King Coal can go fuck himself.

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