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JI7

(89,182 posts)
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 01:31 AM Nov 2013

Germany to allow 'indeterminate' gender at birth

Source: bbc

Parents will be allowed to leave the gender blank on birth certificates, in effect creating a new categories of "indeterminate sex".

The move is aimed at removing pressure on parents to make quick decisions on sex assignment surgery for newborns.

The intense difficulty for parents is often that a gender has to be chosen very quickly so that the new child can be registered with the authorities, the BBC's Steve Evans in Berlin reports.

Sometimes surgery is done on the baby to turn its physical characteristics as far as possible in one direction or the other, our correspondent says.

The law in Germany has been following a review of cases which revealed great unhappiness.

In one case, a person with no clear gender-defining genitalia was subjected to surgery. The person said many years later: "I am neither a man nor a woman. I will remain the patchwork created by doctors, bruised and scarred."

German passports, which currently list the holder's sex as M for male or F for female, will soon have a third designation, X, for intersex holders, according to the interior ministry.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24767225

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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eridani

(51,907 posts)
2. One day, an acceptable answer to the question "Is it a boy or a girl" will be--
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:26 AM
Nov 2013

--"We don't know yet. We'll have to wait until s/he gets old enough to talk so s/he can tell us." Snap decisions can be very, very wrong, and very, very difficult to reverse.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
3. Makes sense. It's crazy for parents to make the call. It's up to the kid IF the kid wants to go one
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:56 AM
Nov 2013

way or the other, or sit in the middle.

Early on, the parents can give the kid a unisex name, too--make it unnecessary for all of the tortured name changes that are just off-putting/hard to get used to for some folks. An Alex can be an Alexander or Alexandra, and someone named Paris or Jamie or Morgan or Taylor or whatever doesn't have to change their name if they decide to be assigned to a specific gender....

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
5. This reminds me that there was some website I signed up at the other day
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:32 AM
Nov 2013

that asked for your gender and the choices were "male", "female" and "other". I can't remember what it was now... I was surprised though.

JI7

(89,182 posts)
7. i always put in "other" but thought it was just an option for those
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:40 AM
Nov 2013

who didn't want to tell or give info. i usually put in other when it asks things like this. only time i might give specifics is if it's because i feel it would help in getting whatever i want in entering that info.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
6. When you add up all the people who don't fit in the conventional "gender" boxes, from trans
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 04:37 AM
Nov 2013

and intersex, to masculine women and feminine men of all sexual orientations, you're ultimately talking about a fairly large swath of the human population, even in places where "difference" is repressed (which it still is here, to varying degrees).

Nine

(1,741 posts)
9. Two thoughts...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 06:55 AM
Nov 2013

1. Although the move is a good one, I think it is much more important to make a law curtailing hasty sex assignment surgeries.

2. I'll bet dollars to donuts that a lot people commenting on this story (not here but everywhere) will misunderstand what intersex means, confusing it with transsexual and other terms.

Duer 157099

(17,742 posts)
10. It seems that "Both" would be a more accurate label
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 12:32 PM
Nov 2013

if we must use labels. Not Between, but Both. No?

JI7

(89,182 posts)
12. no, the reason for undetermined is because the parents don't know until kids are older
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:20 PM
Nov 2013

so they may be male, female or both, but they just don't know.

get the red out

(13,459 posts)
11. That is a good decision
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 03:21 PM
Nov 2013

Respect needs to be given to who a child like this will grow up to be, rather than some quick decision to make them into something. They are a person and deserve respect.

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