MH17: world's anger at Russia grows as bodies pile on to train at crash site

[Roy Serohz]

Source: The Guardian (UK)

Shaun Walker in Torez
The Guardian, Monday 21 July 2014

Masked, hooded men ran along the platform nervously waving their guns, as the large grey door to one of five train carriages was levered open. A ghoulish stench poured out; inside the glint of shiny black body bags piled in a heap was visible. A group of international monitors from the OSCE peered in briefly, and then the door was swung shut again.

That this event was seen as a great breakthrough in the cleanup of the MH17 air disaster only went to show what a grimly farcical mess it had been up to now.

As politicians, investigators and relatives of the dead across the world expressed anger at the Kremlin for not forcing pro-Russia rebels to offer more cooperation, there had yet to be any serious examination of the crash site.

The UN security council is due to vote on Monday on a resolution that demands armed groups do not compromise the crash site integrity, as well as that those responsible be held accountable.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/mh17-victims-crash-site-anger-russia-grows

[freshwest]

1. So sick of 'masked, hooded men... waving their guns.' Cowards, bullies, criminals, killers.

[SunSeeker]

2. Exactly what I was thinking. nt

[mwrguy]

3. Sounds like our own 'open carry' movement

[freshwest]

5. Sans the masks, yeah. Oh wait, some of do wear masks. Same mentality, just haven't gotten away with

it here in the USA recently. Not like we haven't had terrorists in our history. Some wore hoods instead of masks, but it's the same thing in the long run.

They're on almost every continent with disturbing similarity.

[WinkyDink]

16. Thuggery is not new to the region.

[cosmicone]

23. They are working with decomposing bodies

of course they are wearing masks and hoods just as coroners in the US do.

It is sickening how something so common sense is twisted into something sinister and people on DU buy it hook, line and sinker.

[sdfernando]

34. Except that most are ALWAYS wearing masks....

why is it that you need to wear a mask in a war zone..all day every day??

[cosmicone]

35. According to the article

only the ones handling those bodies are wearing masks.

[sdfernando]

36. But pics posted of this conflict show mask wearing thugs

right from the start...beginning in Crimea and going on to eastern Ukraine. They don't want to be identified...we all know the reasons why.

[snooper2]

43. drunken pro Rus-Si-A assholes terrorizing their own towns...

[delrem]

4. Yes, war propaganda is kinda off-putting.

In fact, I find it totally offensive and I consider it trash.

[Sherman A1]

6. I believe

that the international community needs to basically shun Russia at this point. Stop any interaction with them that can be stopped, such as airline flights, trade and travel. Ambassadors need to be withdrawn for consultations and other diplomatic and economic actions wherever possible should be applied.

[DeSwiss]

9. So that same standard doesn't apply to the US.....

...when some guy in a underground bunker lays waste to a funeral where 'terrorist women and babies'' are congregating to bury their fathers and uncles?

- Just the Ruskies? Got it.

[Sherman A1]

12. I was referring only to this incident,

nothing beyond it. Reading the text of my post one might note that I did not mention other incidents in the past either one way or the other, so putting words in my mouth is probably a non-starter. If you are attempting to pick a fight or demean my opinion, try again.

Have a pleasant day.....

[daleo]

41. That is like only caring about one specific crime

And ignoring identical crimes, because they are inconvenient. It isn't convincing to most people - it is a logical fallacy known as special pleading.

[Sherman A1]

42. Or

it could be simply discussing one issue at a time.


If YOU choose to read more or less into my post than that by all means feel free to do so. If YOU choose to believe that I should link my thoughts to other issues or incidents please feel free to do so, however as I have not supplied my viewpoints on those issues to which YOU believe I should have commented, please feel free to make up whatever YOU would like to and then let me know what they might be.

[davidpdx]

10. I have been thinking the same thing Sharman

All new visa renewals stopped, flights by Russian airlines or from Russia canceled, as well as other economic sanctions, and further release of the SPR to a point which would start pinching their oil industry.

[Sherman A1]

13. Perhaps some of these things will come to pass

one suspects not, but then there are lots of things I and I am sure that you would like to see that will not do so.

[AngryOldDem]

15. Best idea so far is one I heard on The Cycle last week.

Along with what your ideas. There is still a lot to be said for that good, old-fashioned concept of shaming.

This guy on The Cycle (sorry, don't remember his name) said that Putin's overseas assets, those of his oligarch thug friends, and that of Russia itself should be frozen/seized. That would include a lot of real estate, etc., worldwide. Hit the bastard where it hurts, and where he will get the message. And if his friends are caught up in this, Vlad will not be popular among his buds, which definitely won't benefit him.

I don't know what criteria must be met in terms of international law for this to happen, but if the evidence continues to point to where it's pointing, I don't think freezing assets is an unreasonable step.

What's complicating things here is that Putin is relatively popular right now in Russia for reestablishing its "strength." Well, that should come at a cost when he pulls terroristic shit like this.

[davepc]

18. And then winter comes and Russia refuses to sell their gas and oil the Europe

and millions freeze.

[tridim]

21. Problem is, there are lots of people living there.

The Russian people shouldn't be punished for Putin's insanity.

[Ash_F]

27. Yes we should be discouraging right wing nationalism

Not fostering it.

[tjl148]

32. I believe

that the international community is all bark, no bite. Don't see that changing. I'd like to see what you posted happen, but I don't think it will. Unfortunately, a *few* dead passengers (or innocent civilians anywhere) is not going to impede international money making. Sad.....

[4now]

7. Where is the Putin love now.

[Cha]

11. Lurking no doubt.

[William769]

22. See post #4

[DeSwiss]

8. Meanwhile world's anger stilled at ''other'' murders:

- It's kids and babies.

[Ash_F]

26. Good point

I was not around(politically) back then, but I wonder if there was such vigor for justice when the US military shot down that civilian airliner in 1988, killing hundreds.

[amandabeech]

45. After a relatively brief delay, the US admitted that it had shot the airliner down,

and explained what had happened.

The US government apologized and offered (and paid) compensation to the families of the victims.

I remember most people being unhappy with the Navy's actions, saying that the Navy simply wasn't careful enough.

But the whole thing died down pretty quickly because the government did the right thing within a reasonable amount of time.

Here, of course, nobody has accepted responsibility and it will continue to fester until someone or some entity does.

[Ash_F]

46. The US government did not apologize and it never accepted responsibility.

In fact, it made a big show of pointing out that it was not apologizing when it finally payed restitution, 8 years later.

Did you just make that up off the top of your head? Please do some reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[amandabeech]

47. No need to be so unbelievably rude.

I'll take the WP over Wiki, thank you very much.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/flight801/stories/july88crash.htm

[Ash_F]

48. That isn't an apology. Who do you think you are fooling?

And 8 years to pay restitution, still without apology, is not brief.

If you want respect don't spout nonsense.

[Nihil]

49. Didn't you know that the way the US "apologises" is by awarding medals to the commander.

Now compare & contrast the "punishment" for mass murder as committed by US armed forces
with that being demanded/expected for the Ukrainian rebels ...?

[WinkyDink]

14. Yet when we boycotted the 1980 Moscow Olympics, Carter was criticized. And then not re-elected.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/02/carter-olympic-boycott-1980-103308.html#.U8ztjmco-70

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-failed-u-s-boycott-of-the-1980-moscow-summer-olympics/5369121f

[enlightenment]

17. That was sport though, Warpy.

If the US has a sacred cow, that would be it.

[dawnie51]

19. We have these same fine militia types right here.....

anyone think that if they had the weapons they wouldn't do this? If they did this, that they wouldn't be the ghoulish cretins we are witnessing in Ukraine today? We are getting dangerously close to such outrages here. Certain areas of this country are unfit for travel right now, depending on who you are or what you believe. And to quote George Carlin "No one seems to notice, no one seems to care."

[freshwest]

30. +1

[tjl148]

31. Where?

For those who travel, where is it "unfit for travel'? I am not aware of any travel advisories.

[HoosierCowboy]

20. Sorry Guardian...

Half the world is within two days of starving to death. They, like me, don't have the energy to invest in someone elses hate campaign for a dubious cause in a land far away.
Who gives a damn about the Ukraine? The international bankers that loaned them money and can't get it back. The oil companies eager to frack it.
..and if these people want it, let them be the first off the helicopter.

The "World" has been sick of war for a long time. The MSM, which the Guardian is a part of whether they want to admit it or not, loves war because it gives them headlines.

[William769]

24. So what's your feeling about RT?

[cosmicone]

25. Precisely

By "world" they mean US, Canada, Western Europe, Japan and Australia.

Rest of the people don't count.

A majority of the world doesn't give a tuppence for all this bravado and saber rattling. A majority of the world doesn't care that West and Russia are playing a tug of war with Ukraine to rob it of its resources.

[Sunlei]

29. actually Ukraine has been on the path to full EU membership for several years.

before old Putin got upset.

[Sunlei]

28. Putin, quick!a shirtless picture, yank crap outa horses mouth. Prove you're not some thug 'Leader'!

[Igel]

33. The train's set to leave for Kharkov at 7 pm their time. That's just about now.

http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/poyizd-z-tilami-zagiblih-v-katastrofi-boyinga-vvecheri-poyide-do-harkova-360002.html

Поїзд із 282 тілами загиблих в авіакатастрофі малайзійського лайнера відправиться до Харкова о 19.00. Про це заявив віце-прем'єр Володимир Гройсман. "Всі тіла загиблих завантажені у спеціальні вагони-рефрижератори - їх два - і ми очікуємо, що цей поїзд буде відправлений у місце, про яке ми домовилися раніше з усіма сторонами - в Харків", - сказав Гройсман.

The train with 282 bodies of those who died in the Malaysian jetliner catastrophe will head to Kharkiv at 19:00 according to vice-premier Volodymyr Groisman. "All the bodies of the dead are loaded on special refrigerator cars--there are two--and we expect that this train will go to the city that all sides have agreed upon--to Kharkiv", Groisman said.

Note that not all the bodies have been found. And there are still excess body parts that weren't collected. I'm not sure what they're counting as a "body."

At the same time--I can't find the link right now--there is a report that rebels have returned to Alchevsk from the crash site sporting "trophies". Since it's intended to be heart-wrenching and propagandistic, the focus in the report is on children's toys and clothes, as well as on the "hard currency" that the rebels have gathered. (Think about it: Westerners going to Malaysia are likely to carry a fair amount of currency.)

Let's wait to see if it's true. TSN, if what it's worth, is a private country-wide TV network. Trying to pigeonhole overseas outlets into "Fox" or "CNN" is a pointless task since all the political and social boundaries are in different places. (So many of those most against gays and tobacco use and are supporting the rebels are Communists in favor of collectivization and a strong central government. Social liberals tend to be economic liberals. US partisan boundaries need not apply.)

[Rhiannon12866]

40. Important news update, thank you!

[Tarheel_Dem]

37. The Guardian, under the bus in 3....2..... Oops! Too late!

[candelista]

38. "World's Anger"?

Has the Guardian consulted everyone in the world and found them all to be p+++ed off at Russia about this?

The Guardian speaks for the Guardian; not "the world."

[reorg]

39. pathetic headline, some interesting bits in the article

The world's television media seemed oblivious to the irony of criticising the chaos while contributing to it – wading through fields to get a better shot with little regard for the human and material debris below.
...
Dozens of eminently lootable items – watches, new pairs of shoes and even somehow unharmed bottles of duty-free alcohol visible from the road lay untouched on the ground.
...
In Donetsk, the rebels shrugged off these accusations, claiming they would welcome any international experts, but none had shown any desire to arrive yet. Borodai said that the Donetsk People's Republic was expecting a team of 81 international experts, including 20 Malaysian specialists, who would "probably arrive tomorrow evening". The rebel leader said he did not know why the international community had not responded quicker to the incident. "I cannot understand why the experts cannot come here immediately, we are not an island, it should be easy for them to come here," he told press.

[snooper2]

44. Cool two showed up to the thread now!

We just need the other nine or so to show now