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bananas

(27,509 posts)
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 05:44 PM Sep 2014

Water on Earth is older than the sun, scientists say

Source: Los Angeles Times

In a study published Thursday in Science, researchers say the distinct chemical signature of the water on Earth and throughout the solar system could occur only if some of that water formed before the swirling disk of dust and gas gave birth to the planets, moons, comets and asteroids.

This primordial water makes up 30% to 50% of the water on Earth, the researchers estimate.

“It’s pretty amazing that a significant fraction of water on Earth predates the sun and the solar system,” said study leader Ilse Cleeves, an astronomer at the University of Michigan.

This finding suggests that water, a key ingredient of life, may be common in young planetary systems across the universe, Cleeves and her colleagues say.

<snip>

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-old-water-on-earth-20140923-story.html

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Water on Earth is older than the sun, scientists say (Original Post) bananas Sep 2014 OP
Wowsers shenmue Sep 2014 #1
We Are Indeed Made of Starstuff bananas Sep 2014 #2
That was my first thought as well. (nt) paleotn Sep 2014 #18
"Aged over 5 1/2 billion years" Now THAT'S some good advertising. BlueJazz Sep 2014 #3
Well, it wouldn't be too surprising. sakabatou Sep 2014 #5
Your guess is correct sulphurdunn Sep 2014 #6
I was going to say 6000 years but figured that horse has been beaten enough. BlueJazz Sep 2014 #23
Yes, type O is a blue giant sakabatou Sep 2014 #29
Hmmm...so that "Let there be light" thing is out of order? nolabear Sep 2014 #4
Try this rewrite: sulphurdunn Sep 2014 #7
I really like that. WHEN CRABS ROAR Sep 2014 #15
Makes perfect sense to me. silverweb Sep 2014 #22
I like it too. nolabear Sep 2014 #24
Still nonsense. GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #25
There is no metaphor or theory, sulphurdunn Sep 2014 #32
Actually, "the waters were on the face of the deep" before the sun was created there, too. n/t TygrBright Sep 2014 #9
No rewrite necessary. According to Genesis 1:2 . . . Petrushka Sep 2014 #26
How cool. dipsydoodle Sep 2014 #8
You could argue that increase's the odds of there being other life giving planets out there... tk2kewl Sep 2014 #10
Of COURSE water is plentiful. Look at all the Oort cloud and comets. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #11
Now that is weird! oooooob Sep 2014 #12
The proto-solar system was a bubble of gas and dust jeff47 Sep 2014 #13
That's hardly a big revelation. BillZBubb Sep 2014 #14
Well, this is what, the third or fourth time a star has been born here, isn't it? NickB79 Sep 2014 #16
Ya know, I don't think I would have figured that out on my own. Kablooie Sep 2014 #17
! adirondacker Sep 2014 #27
At least some. Gore1FL Sep 2014 #19
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Sep 2014 #20
Well, maybe we are headed that way again...... oooooob Sep 2014 #21
So, you're saying that it was a humid day on the day of the big bang? Major Hogwash Sep 2014 #28
"I wonder what the temperature was on that day" < About 8 kabillion degrees. jtuck004 Sep 2014 #30
So cool. blackspade Sep 2014 #31

bananas

(27,509 posts)
2. We Are Indeed Made of Starstuff
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 05:46 PM
Sep 2014
http://nasawatch.com/archives/2014/09/we-are-indeed-m.html

We Are Indeed Made of Starstuff
By Keith Cowing on September 25, 2014 2:12 PM. 0 Comments

Earth's Water Is Much Older Than the Sun, Carnegie Institution for Science

"Our findings show that a significant fraction of our solar system's water, the most-fundamental ingredient to fostering life, is older than the Sun, which indicates that abundant, organic-rich interstellar ices should probably be found in all young planetary systems," Alexander said."


Water On Earth Is Older Than Our Sun, University of Exeter

"A pioneering new study has shown that water found on Earth predates the formation of the Sun -- raising hopes that life could exist on exoplanets, the planets orbiting other stars in our galaxy. The ground-breaking research set out to discover the origin of the water that was deposited on the Earth as it formed."




Keith's note: This is a rather profound finding - the sort of thing that would make Carl Sagan excoted - something that you'd think a lot of people would like to know about. The Carnegie Institution for Science notes: "This research was supported by the NSF, the Rackham Predoctoral Fellowship, NASA Astrobiology, NASA Cosmochemistry and NASA.". Yet no mention is made at @AstrobiologyNAI, astrobiology.nasa.gov, science.nasa.gov, or at NASA.gov. The word "inept" once again comes to mind with regard to NASA's Astrobiology program.



sakabatou

(42,083 posts)
5. Well, it wouldn't be too surprising.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 06:16 PM
Sep 2014

Our Sun isn't a first generation and probably formed out of a supernova remnant.

Just my guess.

 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
23. I was going to say 6000 years but figured that horse has been beaten enough.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 09:08 PM
Sep 2014

I DO wonder what generation is the Sun?
Some of the "'hot" stars don't last very long. (type O ?)

sakabatou

(42,083 posts)
29. Yes, type O is a blue giant
Fri Sep 26, 2014, 12:28 AM
Sep 2014

When it explodes in a supernova, it produces elements heavier than iron but nothing after uranium or man-made elements (technetium).

silverweb

(16,402 posts)
22. Makes perfect sense to me.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 08:52 PM
Sep 2014

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]And being naturally androgynous, the Eternal's manifestation as "Father Sky" and "Mother Earth" (by these and other names in different traditions) together spawned life on our planet... not to mention lots of other places in our universe, too.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
32. There is no metaphor or theory,
Sat Sep 27, 2014, 09:46 AM
Sep 2014

spiritual or scientific, regarding the origin of the universe that cannot be fairly dismissed as nonsense if one wishes.

Petrushka

(3,709 posts)
26. No rewrite necessary. According to Genesis 1:2 . . .
Fri Sep 26, 2014, 12:03 AM
Sep 2014

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
10. You could argue that increase's the odds of there being other life giving planets out there...
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 06:38 PM
Sep 2014

No?

 

oooooob

(30 posts)
12. Now that is weird!
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 07:00 PM
Sep 2014

I guess my science learning wasn't correct. I thought the Earth was some kind of part of the Sun when it just formed. Remember all those movies of the Earth just being a fiery molten lava planet in the beginning? How could any water have been on it? Now I have to rearrange everything I have ever believed! No worries, that won't take long.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
13. The proto-solar system was a bubble of gas and dust
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 07:25 PM
Sep 2014

It was part of a nebula.

The gas and dust gradually coalesced - a slightly denser lump of gas attracted more gas. Additional lumps formed, which orbited the main lump.

The big lump at the center eventually attracted enough gas to build the temperature and pressure to the point where fusion starts - it became the sun.

The planets were the other lumps. And they were indeed molten balls, because they were constantly colliding with other hunks of material. The Earth would have suffered trillions of asteroid impacts per day.

Eventually, the combination of solar wind and gravity of the planets cleared out most of the stuff, and you get a situation vaguely like what we have today. Though there still were some big impacts, like the impact that formed the moon - something the size of Mars hit the Earth. The impact completely liquefied the planet, and launched the material into orbit that coalesced into the moon.

Anyway, the Sun and Earth are made from the same nebula, and the Earth was molten. But it was molten due to impacts, not because of the Sun.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
14. That's hardly a big revelation.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 07:59 PM
Sep 2014

The gases that the solar system condensed from were around before the sun, obviously. Water molecules would have formed before the sun formed. There is no reason water molecules needed the sun to have formed before they could form.

NickB79

(19,114 posts)
16. Well, this is what, the third or fourth time a star has been born here, isn't it?
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 08:20 PM
Sep 2014

The heavy elements in our solar system came from a previous star in the area going supernova and a new star forming out of the dust and incorporating some of the heavy elements. That star subsequently went supernova, and our star formed from it's dust.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that water was formed during the last solar formation? Hell, if the Sun's predecessor lived long enough before blowing, there could have been planets formed in orbit around it that were consumed in the blast.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
28. So, you're saying that it was a humid day on the day of the big bang?
Fri Sep 26, 2014, 12:27 AM
Sep 2014

I wonder what the temperature was on that day.
I wonder what the Science Guy thinks about this.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
30. "I wonder what the temperature was on that day" < About 8 kabillion degrees.
Fri Sep 26, 2014, 01:07 AM
Sep 2014

But it was a dry heat.

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