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RainDog

(28,784 posts)
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 02:26 PM Feb 2012

In God We Must: Why won’t the U.S. accept its atheists?

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/ft/2012/02/atheism_in_america_why_won_t_the_u_s_accept_its_atheists_.single.html

....David Silverman, president of American Atheists...: “We challenge the whole concept that you can’t be good without God. We challenge the idea that religion is important in the first place, and that really makes them uncomfortable.”

...Psychotherapist Marlene Winell, who practises in Berkeley, California, specialises in “recovery from harmful religion” and advocates religious trauma syndrome as a psychological diagnosis. “There are so many places in the US that are just saturated with religion. Everything is interwoven – their families, their schools, their business – so that if you were not part of the club, part of the group, you get ostracised and people go through really horrible experiences of not belonging any more.” If that sounds like the experience of leaving a cult, perhaps that’s because, as Winell argues, “in its raw form, fundamentalist Christianity that believes that the Bible is the word of God is basically a giant cult.”

...A now famous University of Minnesota study concluded that Americans ranked atheists lower than Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society”. Nearly 48 per cent said they “would disapprove if my child wanted to marry a member of this group” (many more than the next most unpopular category, Muslims, at 33.5 per cent). No wonder atheist groups talk of modelling their campaigns on the civil rights, gay and women’s liberation movements. It is not that they claim their persecution is on the same level but that they suggest the way forward requires a combination of organising and consciousness-raising. “We want people to realise that some of their best friends are atheists, some of their doctors, and lawyers and fire chiefs and all the rest of them are atheists,” says Dennett.

...There’s another reason why atheists might be better off out than in. Researching his PhD, the sociologist Chris Garneau of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln found that, although people who self-identify as atheists are more likely to experience stigma than other seculars, such as agnostics and humanists, those who are out are significantly less likely to report psychological distress than those who struggle to keep their dissent silent.
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In God We Must: Why won’t the U.S. accept its atheists? (Original Post) RainDog Feb 2012 OP
Too dumb. nt ladjf Feb 2012 #1
Americans are too dumb to accept atheists? RainDog Feb 2012 #2
Synonyms... n/t TroglodyteScholar Feb 2012 #3
bingo valerief Feb 2012 #14
Yes. nt ladjf Feb 2012 #12
I don't flinch about it, myself. I am what I am. JFN1 Feb 2012 #4
Don't tar all "religious people" with the same brush AnnieBW Feb 2012 #5
Non Belief is Not Evil discocrisco01 Feb 2012 #9
I >AM< an American, and I accept Athiests Ready4Change Feb 2012 #6
don't see why anyone wouldn't. but 48% of Americans don't RainDog Feb 2012 #7
Why do not accept Atheism discocrisco01 Feb 2012 #8
there is no logic in this post RainDog Feb 2012 #10
For years I sat in the pew trying to make myself believe fasttense Feb 2012 #11
I think it's good to travel RainDog Feb 2012 #13
Politics is EXACTLY the point of organized religion. valerief Feb 2012 #15
my granddaugher told her boyfriend that DesertFlower Feb 2012 #16
We had a religious saleswoman tell us that once MountainLaurel Feb 2012 #17
i would have loved to see the look on her face. DesertFlower Feb 2012 #18
You can't forget the Cold War factor SpartanDem Feb 2012 #19
There you go being all rational cbrer Feb 2012 #20
I don't even know what religion, if any, most of my friends and colleagues follow, Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #21

JFN1

(2,033 posts)
4. I don't flinch about it, myself. I am what I am.
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 10:06 PM
Feb 2012

Religious folk don't like atheists because religious folk associate non-belief with evil, despite numerous historical figures who perpetrated immense evils while claiming to be devoutly religious.

When a non-believer turns out to be kind, generous, thoughtful, and good, it contradicts this core belief. And the belief that non-belief is evil is absolutely required, IMO, in order to maintain their own belief.

We ALWAYS know the truth within is, without exception. Sure, we may try to hide it from ourselves, but inevitably, we absolutely know. Ater all, if YOU are fooling YOURSELF, who then is fooling YOU? This is where religious belief falls down, again IMO.

So I do not flinch from my non-belief. I'll argue all day long with a religious person (my history here at DU demonstrates this...!), and I will not back down from it, not one bit. And, truth be told, I've not losta "battle" yet, as my "opponent" commonly "leaves the field."

I think atheists just need to stop hiding who they are, and be themselves. If people don't like my beliefs, wah for them. I am not forced to like theirs, either, and I refuse to be...

AnnieBW

(10,350 posts)
5. Don't tar all "religious people" with the same brush
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 12:13 AM
Feb 2012

I'm a Pagan, myself, or at least a pantheist. I would probably be an agnostic, had I not seen things that cannot be explained by current science. However, I respect your non-belief. I feel that the Pagan community has more in common with atheists than Fundamentalists of any stripe.

discocrisco01

(1,664 posts)
9. Non Belief is Not Evil
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:01 AM
Feb 2012

The fact is that I were Christian, I would consider non-belief is a just lack of faith. You are not evil because you do not belief in God. It is just that you lack of faith. I do believe, if Christianity is true, that people will die in their sins without Christ, but I never label a non-believer as evil. The fact is that I label mankind itself as evil and Christ is the only solution to that evil.

Believers are not special. They just have a gift from God called faith. A non-believer just has not has spiritual awakening and they are not an evil person for non-belief. Everybody is evil including believers and non-believers.

But I cannot accept the facts that Genesis 1-13 so I do not believe in Christianity. I am agnostic that accepts the doctrines of Orthodox Christianity, but rejects the religions because it has lack of supporting evidence for its belief system.

Ready4Change

(6,736 posts)
6. I >AM< an American, and I accept Athiests
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 12:47 AM
Feb 2012

This sticks in my craw, every time a report says "America This" or "America That" when it is really reporting on the beliefs of a small (usually highly bigoted and intolerant) segment of the populace. Stating a headline in this way paints the entire nation as small minded morons. It's done too often, so often I feel it's meant to lend the impression of greater numbers and influence to a teensy part of our nation.

The articles headline SHOULD be "In God They Must: Why won't a small number of self-righteous pie-holes in the US accept atheists?"

(/rant)

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
7. don't see why anyone wouldn't. but 48% of Americans don't
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 12:58 AM
Feb 2012

or wouldn't want an atheist to be part of the family.

and there are problems like these:

Despite what looks like a clear constitutional ban on religious discrimination, atheists face problems in many areas of public life, including the military. A woman in the Marines, who has to remain anonymous, says that although chapel and prayer were technically optional, “it was frowned upon” to opt out. In Iraq, chaplains would come into the bunkers and say “bow your heads and pray”. Everyone on the base would receive a prayer through a daily email. Her real problems came at the end of her first tour of duty. “We killed a lot of people,” she said. When she got back she had “a really hard time dealing with it” and “got really bad into alcohol”. But when she asked for help, she was sent to the chaplain, even though she said she didn’t believe in God.


The military is a pretty big organization.

discocrisco01

(1,664 posts)
8. Why do not accept Atheism
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 01:55 AM
Feb 2012

It should be easy for atheism as long people accept other religion. There is "no boogeyman" about an atheist.

The fact is that what I want the Christians to believe what to believe and to preach their faith. I horrified when people cannot preach their faith and religious liberty is not accepted. I also dislike when atheists can freely speak for not wanting God in society. People should have preach their faith but people need to accept not all people are going to accept a belief in God.

Let's face. God works for a lot of people in America. He does work, but not for everybody. Some of us cannot belief in a pretend world where there is a God. For me, God does not work. God is the Cosmos that was created or not created by a being beyond my comprehension.

Jesus does not work for me because I have doubts about certain portions of the Old Testament. I can believe in Jesus rose from the dead, but I need evidence about first five books of bible. I can accept everything in bible that is written after book of Moses are written. Specifically, the first 13 chapter of Genesis drive me nuts. I can scant faith that Abraham and Joseph did exist, but I have really hard time believe in Noah and the Garden of Eden. I can accept the concept of symbolic sin of original creation, but I cannot accept the Genesis creation account.

So I choose agnosticism over Christianity because I have too many unresolved issues with the religion. Yet, Christianity is the religion that would end my drinking immediately. I agree with the church on almost every point of doctrine, but do not belief the facts that back up doctrine.

I got a DUI and going to lose my job. I am alcoholic so the search of God means everything to me and yet cannot find him. I continue to drink because I am insane without a higher power.

If I went to rehab, a blind watchmaker as a higher power would work. God existance is not important. It is fact that this Cosmos exists. It has set rules, set conditions, and set law. Man has laws and lot of other things. We do not know why we created a God, but God is just a method to cope with life. And I got realize. I got find God whether it is blind watchmaker or Jesus.

But to state that atheism is bad for our society, I state it wrong.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
10. there is no logic in this post
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:14 AM
Feb 2012

or maybe it's the alcohol that's talking.

there's also something called rational recovery and there are plenty of people in AA who don't believe in Christianity's version of a god, or any god at all. And they have all been able to take it one day at a time and not drink. If you want to stop drinking, don't give religion as an excuse for why you cannot take advantage of the resources available to you.

if you went into rehab, you could get therapy and there's no god in that at all, unless you want to find one there.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
11. For years I sat in the pew trying to make myself believe
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 08:22 AM
Feb 2012

in a virgin birth, a man rising from the grave, a God who sent his son but couldn't protect his son from evil men. I just couldn't make myself believe in any of it. But I tried, over and over again.

Then we got a preacher who used the RepubliCON talking points in his sermons on Sundays. It wasn't about religion I realized, it was about politics. And I quit going to church and trying to believe impossible things.

It was the best decision of my life. I no longer have to struggle over my hypocrisy. My mind and heart are at peace.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
13. I think it's good to travel
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 12:10 PM
Feb 2012

because then people can see others who live their lives without the sort of incessant insistence on an idea of god that's really a cultural construct here.

but travel isn't cheap and this nation doesn't want people to have interesting lives - this nation wants people to fear for their survival and work in situations that are demeaning - that's the American way, it seems.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
15. Politics is EXACTLY the point of organized religion.
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 12:54 PM
Feb 2012

I gave religion a second chance when I was around eleven or twelve. I figured if it didn't take then, it never would. It didn't. Many, many decades later, I'm still as clear-headed as I was at twelve.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
16. my granddaugher told her boyfriend that
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:17 PM
Feb 2012

i'm an atheist. he was surprised. said he never had anyone tell him that they were an atheist. i told her to show him my facebook page.

BTW. he's 40 years old.

MountainLaurel

(10,271 posts)
17. We had a religious saleswoman tell us that once
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 04:44 PM
Feb 2012

While making her rounds of the neighborhood selling Jesus. Mr. Laurel gave her a look and said "Really, there are 4 on this block alone."

SpartanDem

(4,533 posts)
19. You can't forget the Cold War factor
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 12:54 AM
Feb 2012

The USSR supression of religion is something many people came to associtate with their other repressions. So you have a few generations of Americans to whom godlessness isn't not just about believeing in a deity, it's associated with not believeing democratic freedoms.

 

cbrer

(1,831 posts)
20. There you go being all rational
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 04:49 AM
Feb 2012

Without some effort to understand the amount of comfort that emotionally weak people get from their religion, you won't get it.

You can point out their hypocrisy, their irresponsibility, and their partial criminality all day. Besides the blatant absurdity of the whole mess. But it's from a rational point of view. And they are not operating at that level.

There. Now don't you feel all warm and fuzzy? (like just before vomiting?)

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
21. I don't even know what religion, if any, most of my friends and colleagues follow,
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 11:00 PM
Feb 2012

and I really don't care. Am I the exception?

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