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Tue Dec 22, 2020, 08:48 AM

Professor Timothy Snyder: "'The institutions held' is a really bad argument."







Text: "'The institutions held' is a really bad argument. The institutions barely held... We're treading water. We're not swimming. Whether we're going to go down or not, I think, remains to be seen. I think we can treat Trump as a warning."

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Response to Mike 03 (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 08:52 AM

1. The institutions should have upheld the rule of law and done their jobs.

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Response to sop (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 09:28 AM

5. And they should have done that in the fall of 2016

when the intelligence agencies identified Russian interference in the first place. McConnell represents the institution that should have, in a healthy democracy, held in the first place. Instead, it conspired against Democracy, conspired against itself and the US Constitution. And did so by hiding behind faux patriotism, real not artificial fake news, and artificial morality.

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Response to Mike 03 (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 08:54 AM

2. The Senate didn't

They were given a chance a year ago to get rid of this fascist. The GOP decided not to do that. Not only that it appears nearly half are openly on board the train right now. The remaining are cowering in the corner.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 09:05 AM

3. exactly right! removal by impeachment is the best institutional remedy but the senate is corrupted

when people say "the institutions are holding", they mean the backup systems.

on any day, then or since, if 20 republicans were on board to do their duty to the constitution instead of to donnie, he would be gone.

it could happen today. but the senate has nowhere remotely close to 20 such republicans even a year later.

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Response to unblock (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 02:19 PM

13. The senate has nowhere remotely close to 20 such republicans even a year later or

ever.

The party is corrupt to the core. Any honest person affiliated with the GOP in 2016 who is still so affiliated is part of the problem, part of the corruption, a willing enabler of the erosion of the moral and legal backbone of America. The GOP needs to be shrunk so small it can be drowned in a bathtub -- along with Grover Norquist. And drown, also, forever and all time the blatant lie that is "trickle down" and the Republican notion that only the wealthy should rule, and only they should determine what is right and what is wrong.

But 70,000,000 Americans think the lies spewed by the GOP are the lies of patriots, that its corruption is for the safety and well being of all, even the "mudsills" they have convinced will benefit by every dollar their overlords steal from them.

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Response to Mike 03 (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 09:21 AM

4. "It's dangerous when really powerful people claim that they are the real victims."

So true. He's a sound thinker.

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Response to Mike 03 (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 09:31 AM

6. Professor Snyder is spot on. It's not just a bad argument,

itís a weak, dangerous and ultimately self-defeating argument. Itís a view through rose colored glasses.

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Response to Mike 03 (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 09:33 AM

7. this is THE WAKE UP CALL as 2022 and 2024 can be horrible for democrats and IF GOP finds

 

a charismatic fascist type as their nominee in 2024, its going to be ugly. Their party is ready to go full tilt on eliminating democracy in America, The next 2 years is critical to go after all the trumps and trump enablers from trump to the proud boys and white militias. If we don't see "terrorist" organization classifications happen, we will be FUCKED

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 10:57 AM

11. JMHO ..many Dems, most here have such PTSD from 16 there are minions more woke

We will and should be constantly promoting and voting in every election, even if itís just for county dog catcher

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Response to Mike 03 (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 09:35 AM

8. The electorate is the most important institution, and that is the

institution that almost failed. And the people failed when the center broke and failed to check the anti-government authoritarian extremism that took over the right half. The usual peril was added when dangerously many on the farther left, wooed by extremist, anti-Democratic, and yes, even anti-democracy rhetoric, assisted the right.

It is true that the Republican caucuses failed completely in both house and senate. Terrifying to think what might have happened without the electorate moving to protect at that critical time. Hungary's parliament, with both chambers controlled by RW authoritarians, recently voted their president the power to rule by degree.

WHAT STOOD STRONGEST, even more than our embattled governmental institutions? Why do we still have government of, by and for the people:

Take a good look at the steady, unwavering blue line. THAT'S US! In America, as in every liberal democracy, our liberal party is the protector of our constitutional republic from authoritarian and other anti-democracy forces.



That red line shows we are still in very serious danger of falling to the anti-democracy forces among us. Those who vote and those who don't bother to vote may still form the working majority that can bring us down.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 10:11 AM

10. +1,000,000!

THE VOTE is the one institution that will help maintain the rest.
We all must always act as if we voters are one election away from losing all things democratic.

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Response to Mike 03 (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 09:45 AM

9. Which institutions? Many have been broken by DT-pos and his co-conspirators.

The judicial held because there was no evidence and each suit was basically, blatantly in bad faith. We are lucky they were so incompetent. And so obvious about subverting the election.

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Response to Mike 03 (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 11:42 AM

12. They certainly didn't hold

It's that simple: every senator who didn't vote to remove Trump, while knowing damn well, even the stupidest and most extreme of them had known, that Trump was a Putin puppet who tried to blackmail a foreign government to get dirt on the political opponent he feared the most, every one of those senators committed treason, there's no other way to define their vote.

The US Senate is one of the most institution this country has, and it didn't hold, it didn't hold at all. Additionally, if the House wasn't held by the Democrats, you can bet your last penny that they wouldn't have ratified the electoral college vote and would have handed trump a second term. If the system in general held, kind, and it held by the skin of its teeth, assuming there is no coup between now and January 20, it has shown how vulnerable it is and how our Constitution didn't take into account the emergence of would-be dictators like Trump.

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Response to Mike 03 (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2020, 02:37 PM

14. Closest this country has ever come to complete takeover!

Only thing that saved us was the hard work people did to GET OUT THE VOTE! Also scary part was what would have happened, IF Some RETHUGLICON states were to LIE about their votes like Rump and 106 rethuglicons wanted them to do? putin ALMOST pulled this off with the help of SOCIAL MEDIA LIES!! I've really lost a lot of faith in my fellow Americans. (including my family members) We CANNOT EVER let this happen again!!

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