Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumGD to allow shooting incidents involving children to be posted?
According to DU mail I received today from another DU member, Skinner will allow gun incident postings involving children. Expect a spate of these, along with other gun OPs that meet GD's crumbling "exceptions."
Kaleva
(36,146 posts)"Statement of Purpose
Discuss gun politics, gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence."
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Unless you were talking about the function of a single type of firearm. Many on the other side have been flooding GD with any story that seems to be mainly guns and anti gun but then they push the fact it is about some tangent in the story so it is "really not" about guns" wink, wink. I let them have their fun now instead of complaining. Skinner seems to be allowing this to go on so I guess it is OK. Most of these OPs end up in the usual name calling and mean spirited comments from the other side. Really shows the difference in the two sides. I just hope Skinner also allows self defense stories to also stand. I would be disappointed if he allows one side but not the other to post.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)for the most part in posting gun threads of any sort in GD; the controllers every chance they get.
Should we start posting OPs in GD on a regular basis?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)yet these are posters whose favorite topic is often guns.
so what gives? perhaps they only want guns discussed in forums where they already dominate.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)The exceptions are, loosely stated, if it's a child and if it's big news, or national news.
Some of the hosts fall on different sides of the question, what's big news, not surprisingly.
A shooting only involving adults that doesn't make national news is likely to be locked.
The shooting at the grocery yesterday with two victims plus shooter, GD.
Baby shot by stray bullet, GD.
Grandma defends herself against home invasion robbers, LOCK.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Those are just, you know...dark people, at least in large portion. It's okay to sweep them under the rug and focus on the occasional poor, innocent (white) child.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Other tragedies involving non-white student victims are already forgotten.
Patrick Purdy comes to mind.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)because that is truly your concern, that this is unfair to people of color.
ps-tell us how many of the Newtown victims were white.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I was working there when Jonestown went down, when Harvey Milk and Moscone went down, the overhead highway was there, I took the Broadway exit.
We may have run into each other.
Anyway, these were some good times, Mayor Fienstein was a downer, tho.
One more:
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)I'd think you'd know how to spell Dianne Feinstein.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Super mass murder in Jonestown, murders in city hall, cop cars on fire.
Yeah, I was there. She's my senator now, doncha know!
Sometimes I spell it "DINO".
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)petronius
(26,580 posts)following, with regards to the "no guns" part of the GD SoP:
1) if it involves a child being shot, it's OK for GD,
2) if it's sourced from a national (e.g. CNN, NBC, ...) or international source it's 'big news' and OK for GD,
3) if it's national in scope (e.g. fed. policy) it's 'big news' and OK for GD,
4) if it's a comment on or discussion thread about a thread from the preceding categories, it's OK for GD.
I'm not a GD Host and don't intend to be*, so this is just my personal sense of how it's working.
* Given that GD seems to have the most nebulous SoP of the big forums, followed by the Lounge, hosting GD seems to be one of the more difficult gigs. If it was up to me, I'd scrap the GD SoP entirely, or at least open it much wider; it is after all a "general" forum, and we all have more tools (trash thread, trash by keyword, ignore) than on previous DU versions to manage our own experiences...
Kaleva
(36,146 posts)LPN was busy but that was mainly dealing with duplicates and opinion pieces.
As for GD, I've recently submitted SOP alerts on two gun related threads there. Neither was locked but one did sink out of sight quickly on its own and the other did become big news (the shooting in the theater).
I don't think it'd be a good idea to scrap the SOP for GD entirely. While one can use the trash thread feature, a person might well be spending an inordinate amount of time trashing CS threads, I/P threads and so on.
I think gun threads ought to be prohibited in GD unless it's big news but some members here have very strong feelings about the issue and will always try to push the envelope in GD. It ebbs and flows. There is no real solution that will make most everyone happy.
petronius
(26,580 posts)the argument for keeping some things out of GD, but I'm not sure that's really the case. As I look at GD today (and every day), I see that the majority of threads are things I didn't bother to click on, but reading past them hasn't interfered at all with my experience. Even during a big DUst-up, when GD explodes with porn, cheese sandwiches, starfish, or whatever threads, it doesn't cost me more than a minute or two to trash or bypass the noise.
Looked at another way, there are 6 excluded categories in the GD SoP, linked to 6 Groups or Categories. I just counted that there are 70 threads in those Groups/Categories that were kicked at least once today - while ~415 GD threads have been kicked today (some 100s of times). If everyone of those 70 other threads was mixed into GD, I don't think it would have made a bit of difference in the experience.
But you're right, there's no solution that will make everyone happy - and really none of it should make anyone unhappy. We post things we think are interesting enough to share, we read things that look interesting, and beyond that there shouldn't be cause for any angst...
ileus
(15,396 posts)DonP
(6,185 posts)Cutting and pasting all, or even half, of the reports from the Chicago Tribune and Sun Times of "children" shot daily on the "gun free streets" might make some folks sick of the stupidity and multiple gun posts in GD? Never a shortage and since we're posting kid related stories it must be OK.
After 8 or 9+ every day in GD, they might get tired of the same old song.
Like this one today, that proves once again that thieves only want your stuff, so just give it to them.
Teen shot after handing over cell phone to armed robber
"Kevin Baker and his cousin had just handed over their cell phones to the robbers when one of them had a question for the 19-year-old: What gang was he rolling with?
"My nephew was sorta stunned," Patricia Butler said this morning, a day after the shooting. "He was like, Huh? It stunned him. Before he could let it out, they shot him. They surprised him. He ain't in no gang."
Baker was struck in the head and the abdomen, Butler said. A woman who was walking about half a block away called 911 and Baker was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center, where he was listed in critical condition.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicago-lawn-shooting-20140116,0,2159364.story
You could add DC and a few other places where guns are common too. LA comes to mind too.
Response to DonP (Reply #8)
NYC_SKP This message was self-deleted by its author.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Fucking loser. Unbelievable.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)15. Do it.
I'm serious. I'll help.
If you can't beat them, join them.
I am serious. I think they will get tired of it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=135726
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And:
And ESPECIALLY:
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)is it not a fair discussion when your side is outnumbered?
because you don't oppose such discussions in here.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Here's a fact. I know I know I know, it's an NRA talking point yargergrabl.
By almost 2:1, new gun laws favor the Second Amendment. Please pass this on to billh58 and others who proclaim movement in what they think is the right direction.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/10/us/state-gun-laws-enacted-in-the-year-since-newtown.html?_r=1&
These. Are. The Breaks!
Here's another one for you:
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)this is about GD. why are you trying to stop gun posts in GD but not here?
because you're outnumbered in GD. perhaps not in society at large, but we aren't talking about society at large, we're talking about GD.
why do you want to stop gun posts in GD, where your side is so heavily outnumbered?
why?
and in that LBN thread that you wanted locked, you came up with 3 different reasons to lock it in a couple hours.
you were straining to come up with reasons to lock that thread. why?
you just don't want guns discussed by the general readership of DU.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I'm sure you're too young too remember these songs or you'd respond more affectionately!
ETA correct link. doh.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)when guns are often a favorite topic among many of you --hey, that's why this thread is here, right?
you all like to talk about guns, you just don't want them discussed in GD.
why? why so coy about what's going on here?
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)They're not so much "discussions of gun issues" as they are excuses for a certain segment of the DU population to indulge in vitriolic personal attacks, bullshit amateur psychoanalysis, bigoted generalizations, and other forms of deeply divisive, self-indulgent crap. Gun threads in GD have proven to be pure cancer for the DU community, and Skinner was absolutely right to ban them. That ban, however, has become meaningless, as the hosts virtually never enforce it.
If there were much in the way of actual rational discussion in those threads, I'd be all for them.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Personally, I don't think whatever asshattery that occurs here even comes close to the level seen in GD gun threads.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)There is a reason so many former gungeon dwellers have been banned from this site completely, there have been many cases of people in this group outright advocating violence. There have been far more gun nuts banned from this site than anti-gun voices and there is good reason for that.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)None of that is particularly relevant to the asshattery I was discussing, which was about personal attacks, self-serving "telepsychoanalysis," bigoted sweeping generalizations, etc. My objection to gun threads in GD has nothing to do with whatever RW trolls might be doing on DU (and yes, the gungeon draws a good few of those, as one would expect it to). It has to do with those GD threads acting as a divisive, poisonous cancer in a liberal community.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Do you have a point, or are you just looking for a pissing match? If the latter, you'll be doing it solo.
Have a wonderful day.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)I am tired of your constant complaining that people are posting things you disagree with. Many people want to discuss guns in GD and we are sick of hearing your whining everytime we do. If Skinner wanted to enforce the rule in as strict of fashion as you want it enforced he would enforce it that way, but he is giving some leeway to allow a certain amount of discussion and your complaints about that discussion taking place are quite tiresome.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I don't complain about people posting things I disagree with. That's bullshit (unless you're counting personal attacks, etc...those I'll continue to "complain" about, and if you don't like it, tough shit). Opposing divisive, harmful, distracting asshattery on these forums is not itself divisive.
Once again (since you seem to be having difficulty comprehending it), I'm not complaining about "discussion taking place" in GD gun threads. As I stated quite clearly, it's the fact that any real, reasoned discussion so seldom takes place in those threads that constitutes my objection to them. If there were ecent discussions on gun issues there, I'd be lobbying Skinner to drop the restrictions myself.
Got it? Good.
Oh, and if you're sick of me and others complaining about the constant violation of the rules in GD, then DON'T OPEN MY FUCKING POSTS. It's that simple...
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Thanks for proving my point.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)You whine about people opposing the very sort of pissing match you elected to start here and suggesting how you might avoid have your tender sensibilities so cruelly outraged...then actually think that proves some sort of point?
Oh, God...my sides.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)My troll radar is usually a bit better attuned than this. You are rather obviously just trolling for a pissing match, and to my considerable embarrassment, I gave you one. Find another target for your crocodile tears and faux outrage, Sparky...I'm done here. Do let me know if you'd like to have an actual, you know...discussion some time.
I won't hold my breath...
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)You sure like to prove my point over and over again don't you?
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Enjoy!
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)oldhippie
(3,249 posts)... probably about different issues, though.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)sarisataka
(18,220 posts)on such statements as "all gun owners should be droned" or "have the death penalty for owning a gun" or "hopefully the two gun owners will kill each other" that have all been in GD in the fairly recent past...
Having been on the jury for one of them, it was allowed to stand 4-2, comments were along the lines of it's just gun owners, no loss.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)Violent rhetoric is the one and only thing that I always alert on no matter which side it comes from, I have alerted on people from my own side of the argument when I thought they were advocating violence. Far more often however it is the gun promoters who try to justify violence.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)I may disagree an specific numbers but I don't read every gun related thread. It is like watching a merry-go-round
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Yeah, I realize the policy is meaningless, since it's violated with impunity, but that doesn't change the fact that most pro-RKBA posters wouldn't mind gun threads in GD is they actually contained more good, reasoned discussion than they do asshattery. What actually tends to happen in those threads just reinforces the reasoning behind the ban.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I've stopped alerting on them, since one of my alerts was outed in a public forum by an unprincipled assclown. Said assclown also being a fucking host of GD, this situation's not getting any better. Yep...one of the people tasked with enforcing the rules violates them with impunity...and outs people who disagree via the "private" alert system by posting their alert in AtA..
Fucked up beyond all repair? Yep...
Time to extract what entertainment value I can out of this place before I get banned (probably for actually daring to object to shitty behavior by one of the "chosen ones." .
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)oneshooter
(8,614 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)if you'd like GD hosts to ignore those directions, why don't you let us know.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Besides we have only your say so that it has happened.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Seems you are not a host of GD.
Number Hosts Days served
1 In_The_Wind 90
2 fishwax 88
3 Warren Stupidity 83
4 Baitball Blogger 82
5 Hutzpa 80
6 Autumn 75
7 Violet_Crumble 71
8 greytdemocrat 66
9 Hassin Bin Sober 61
10 Warren DeMontague 57
11 DevonRex 49
12 pacalo 48
13 Sissyk 47
14 idwiyo 43
15 Agschmid 42
16 rhett o rick 23
17 Grateful for Hope 21
18 cyberswede 17
19 hrmjustin 7
20 mtnester
You are however a wanna be Host.
1 Luminous Animal 62
2 Stinky The Clown 57
3 aikoaiko 53
4 Purveyor 47
5 azurnoir 43
6 Little Star 41
7 CreekDog
So you really don't know what Skinner wants. Just what YOU want.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I don't care where the discussion is, just as long as there is some consistency and predictability, no matter how stilted.
You are rather hung up on a rather personal interest in me. While in some contexts that could be seen as flattering, but I would suggest staying focused on philosophical and policy concerns.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you know, that would explain why you and many other posters who post mostly about guns and alert many, many threads in GD about guns --but not elsewhere.
you just don't want guns discussed where gun control is more popular than opposing gun control?
well that's interesting.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)while proclaiming some sort of progressive mantle which kind of rings hollow when your main topic is guns and you mainly don't want it discussed in one of our busiest forums (because gun control actually is more popular there).
it's also about not letting you do that without notice from the larger community that you are undermining.