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Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 05:06 PM Jul 2014

When a gun owner is most dangerous

Thanks to those on the gun control side who have been so illuminating.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they can skirt the background check through a private sale or at a gun show.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they go through the extensive background checks for obtaining a CC permit.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they have no familiarity in the use of their firearm.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they regularly practice with their firearm.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they are ignorant of local and state law.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they obsess over the minutiae of permissible firearms use.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they are ignorant of the toll taken by firearms.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they amass libraries of statistical data to defend their mania.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they openly acknowledge their refusal to adhere to registration and confiscation laws.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they demand we adhere to some musty old document.

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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When a gun owner is most dangerous (Original Post) Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 OP
You get a very consistent message by dropping the clause after the adverb in each sentence. Pholus Jul 2014 #1
^^^^^^ BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #7
The most telling thing about this post DesMoinesDem Jul 2014 #2
The most telling thing about your post Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #3
I'm pretty sure it's sarcasm, based on self conflicting gun control fans feedback n/t DonP Jul 2014 #4
Context. Think about these as five pairs of contradictory arguments made by mostly ignorant folk. NYC_SKP Jul 2014 #6
Good points. krispos42 Jul 2014 #5
A gun owner is dangerous when he thinks of himself as "they" nt. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #8
When people cannot (or perhaps more accurately, will not) understand the plainly obvious Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #10
Most dangerous to what? SkatmanRoth Aug 2014 #9
You can object to anything you want; with much sound and fury, if you so desire. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #12
A gun owner is most dangerous when... Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #11
And still less dangerous than the police. clffrdjk Aug 2014 #15
Well, that goes without saying. nt Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #17
Okay, I'll play. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #19
OK! Good for you. Nothing wrong with an honest discussion. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #20
What happened to "She?" Doesn't fit Narrative™, Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #21
In the immortal words of The Knack -- Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2014 #22
Couple of reasons Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #23
In the Gungeon, "no offense" is ever taken. Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #24
Too much stupid ..... (no text) jimmy the one Aug 2014 #13
Holy shit something we can agree on. clffrdjk Aug 2014 #14
"Too much stupid" correctly describes Lurks Often Aug 2014 #16
"Too much stupid" correctly describes extremists of all stripes. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #18

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
1. You get a very consistent message by dropping the clause after the adverb in each sentence.
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 05:19 PM
Jul 2014

At that point they all say the same thing.

You know, we all actually seem to agree to that part of each sentence.

The difference is whether we agree because of aspiration or fear.

 

DesMoinesDem

(1,569 posts)
2. The most telling thing about this post
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 05:49 PM
Jul 2014

is that you think an experienced shooter is more dangerous than an inexperienced shooter and that the constitution is a musty old document.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
3. The most telling thing about your post
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 05:54 PM
Jul 2014

is you can't tell when someone is speaking in the voice of another party.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
6. Context. Think about these as five pairs of contradictory arguments made by mostly ignorant folk.
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 09:01 PM
Jul 2014

.


Thanks to those on the gun control side who have been so illuminating:


A gun owner is most dangerous when they can skirt the background check through a private sale or at a gun show.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they go through the extensive background checks for obtaining a CC permit.



A gun owner is most dangerous when they have no familiarity in the use of their firearm.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they regularly practice with their firearm.



A gun owner is most dangerous when they are ignorant of local and state law.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they obsess over the minutiae of permissible firearms use.



A gun owner is most dangerous when they are ignorant of the toll taken by firearms.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they amass libraries of statistical data to defend their mania.



A gun owner is most dangerous when they openly acknowledge their refusal to adhere to registration and confiscation laws.

A gun owner is most dangerous when they demand we adhere to some musty old document.


The same culprits spout contradictory talking points, this post pairs them up nicely.



Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
10. When people cannot (or perhaps more accurately, will not) understand the plainly obvious
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 06:52 AM
Aug 2014

it leads me to believe their judgment is not to be trusted on serious matters.

SkatmanRoth

(843 posts)
9. Most dangerous to what?
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 06:10 AM
Aug 2014

Is the danger presented to the people who object to the private ownership of guns?

    A gun owner is most dangerous when they demand we adhere to some musty old document.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
12. You can object to anything you want; with much sound and fury, if you so desire.
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 09:32 AM
Aug 2014

But your protestations notwithstanding, there are people intent on doing harm to decent people who prefer to live in peace. Those who choose to live in peace have an inherent human right to self-defense.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
11. A gun owner is most dangerous when...
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 07:27 AM
Aug 2014

1. he thinks it is smart to carry his gun in public.

2. he thinks society is better off by him carrying his gun in public

3. he thinks he is safer by carrying his gun in public

4. he thinks his just as badass as the "bad" guys

5. he fantasizes about taking down those "bad" guys

6. he thinks guns are "cool"

7. he claims to be carrying because it's his "right"

8. he claims he's carrying to protect his loved ones

9. he claims he is not carrying out of fear

10. he refers to his gun as a "personal safety device", or "personal protection device"

11. he thinks he will come out of a gunfight alive

12. he can kill with impunity

13. he thinks that having a gun makes him one of the "good guys".

14. he thinks using a gun is the way to resolve conflict.

15. he fires that gun in public

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
19. Okay, I'll play.
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 02:33 PM
Aug 2014
1. he thinks it is smart to carry his gun in public.

Unless you're asserting violent attacks never occur outside the home I'm curious how you can deride maintaining a means of protection outside the home.


2. he thinks society is better off by him carrying his gun in public

I fail to see how providing criminals a guaranteed gun-free work zone makes society better.


3. he thinks he is safer by carrying his gun in public

There's no argument serving a basis for this point. I'm not sure if you're implying criminals get to magically use a gun owner's weapon against them or some other argument.


4. he thinks his just as badass as the "bad" guys

You're imposing your lurid imagination as fact.


5. he fantasizes about taking down those "bad" guys

See Point #4.


6. he thinks guns are "cool"

See Point #4.

Why do you spend so much effort on wild fabrications to supposedly prove a point? Maybe you should have that looked into.


7. he claims to be carrying because it's his "right"

Either there is a right to self-defense or there isn't. If you assert there is no right to self-defense then conversely you are arguing people have a duty to submit to the physically superior.


8. he claims he's carrying to protect his loved ones

What is it about protecting loved ones that you find so threatening?


9. he claims he is not carrying out of fear

Preparedness is not fear. Wearing a seatbelt is not a fear of auto accidents, it is a healthy respect for what may happen and attempting to mitigate the degree of harm.


10. he refers to his gun as a "personal safety device", or "personal protection device"

So you complain when a gun owner may refer to a weapon in casual terms, i.e. "cool" (see Point #6) but you complain when they might refer to a weapon in more formal terms.

This is exactly the sort of self-contradicting argumentation I was referring to in the OP.


11. he thinks he will come out of a gunfight alive

The majority of DGUs don't require the discharge of the weapon as criminals prefer soft targets and are loathe to test their personal safety. Do you have any support for the supposition that when a citizen does fire their weapon there is no reason to assume they will bear the brunt of the encounter with such regularity that it is not worth their effort or is this just another imagining akin to Points 4, 5 and 6?


12. he can kill with impunity

Self-defense does, in fact, have legal sanction. It's rather unsettling that someone would suggest people exercising their right to self-defense should endure the converse of impunity.


13. he thinks that having a gun makes him one of the "good guys".

Having a gun does not make one a "good guy" any more than having a gun make them a "bad guy."


14. he thinks using a gun is the way to resolve conflict.

It is beyond naïve, and barely worth discussion, to imply robbers, killers, rapists and stalkers will be deterred by anything short of force.


15. he fires that gun in public

The question is not if the gun was fired in public but whether the circumstances and manner are appropriate and the law already accounts for this. It is NOT inappropriate to yell "Fire!" in a crowded venue if, in fact, there is a fire that threatens those gathered.


As a side note: I wrote the OP as a means to assemble the self-contradicting arguments of the gun grabbers. They speak in wild generalizations. I cannot help but note you never actually addressed any of the points, i.e. "No, that's not what they mean/say. What they're saying is..."

Instead you provided yet another batch of wild generalizations. It seems peculiar that you would seek to disprove the charge by reinforcing the charge.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
20. OK! Good for you. Nothing wrong with an honest discussion.
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 04:23 PM
Aug 2014

1.


Unless you're asserting violent attacks never occur outside the home I'm curious how you can deride maintaining a means of protection outside the home.

I am not saying violent attacks never happen outside the home. Neither am I deriding the maintaining a means of protection outside the home.

What I said was "A gun owner is dangerous when he thinks it is smart to carry his gun in public"
Nothing about being stupid or danger not existing outside of the home. All we're talking about here is when a gun owner is being dangerous.
I understand that you, or at least your husband, think it is smart to be armed when you venture out of your home. That is your choice, and I wish you the best. Personally, I don't think it is the smartest decision, but I don't live where you live. I can only speak from personal experience. Seven decades on this planet, lived on 3 continents and a dozen countries, spent a few years in LE, and never felt the need to leave home armed with a gun. Been through many confrontations, including with armed individuals. All ended peacefully. Maybe not if I'd been armed with a gun and been tempted to use it. Thankfully, I wasn't, otherwise I'm pretty sure either I or the guy wielding the machete and threatening my life would have died that night. It's amazing what resources one can draw on when the need arises.

2.
I fail to see how providing criminals a guaranteed gun-free work zone makes society better.

If the "work zone" is gun free, then nobody runs the risk of getting shot. That means nobody carries a gun, including the criminal. To achieve this state, LE needs to quit routine carry. That's how you change the rules and eventually you end up with a relatively civilized society.

3. You got the point on that one. Introducing a firearm, or an additional firearm into the mix is a recipe for disaster.

4. No, it would be the guy carrying who imposes his imagination. Don't take this personally, but these idiots exist. I've met them. This is not about you and your hubby.

5. As I say, I've met them. These guys are not so rare.

6. Again, there are lots of guys who think guns are cool. They are not rare. It's a guy thing.

7. There is every right to self-defense. It is a basic natural right. Has nothing to do with carrying a gun, unless you have a credible extant threat. Carrying a gun on a "just in case some bad guys jump us" basis can hardly be classified as self-defense. That's called a vivid imagination, unless you get attacked pretty frequently. Only you can answer that. I would definitely carry if I thought there was a good chance of being attacked. Fortunately, I don't live in Afghanistan.

8. I find nothing wrong with protecting loved ones. It is more than admirable, especially when it happens. I've had to do it a few times in my life. Using it as a justification to carry a gun is something else.

9. OK, you compare a gun to a seatbelt, 'Nuff said.

10. A gun is a gun. Period. It is designed to kill. As such it is a killing tool. It is neither "cool" nor is it a personal safety device. BTW, I have nothing against guns, just dishonesty. Let's call them what they are. If you feel comfortable with some idiot thinking he's wearing a personal safety device, instead of a gun, then I wish you luck. I doubt very much, btw, that your husband is one of those idiots. I'm sure he is fully aware of what he is carrying when he chooses to do so.

11. I suppose no result when it comes to a confrontation with firearms. I said a gun owner is dangerous when he thinks he will come out of a gunfight alive. I was referring to a particular state of mind, not statistics. Think about it.

12. It doesn't always work out the way one expects. Life can get real complicated, especially when guns go off and people start dying.

13. Glad you agree on this one.

14. You may have a point there. If those types are common in your neck of the woods, then you probably should carry, or maybe move.

15. Firing a gun in public is dangerous, imo. Whoever fires it and for whatever reason, it is dangerous.

I am not a "gun grabber", so I responded from my own position and in response to your premise of "When a gun owner is most dangerous".
I don't have a side in this issue, unless you call common sense and reason a side. I support RKA, but not B, except when necessary. I think many gun owners and non gun owners feel the way I do.

Thanks for playing. No hard feelings.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
22. In the immortal words of The Knack --
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 09:47 PM
Aug 2014
Good girls don't
Good girls don't, and she be telling you
Good girls don't, but I do

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
23. Couple of reasons
Sat Aug 2, 2014, 04:14 AM
Aug 2014

Firstly, men who carry guns around tend to be more dangerous than women. I doubt my list fits too many female gun owners.
Secondly, economy of words. No offense meant towards women and I doubt any was taken.

 

clffrdjk

(905 posts)
14. Holy shit something we can agree on.
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 10:16 AM
Aug 2014

How doe it feel to be on the side that created and still Uses each and every one of those arguments.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
18. "Too much stupid" correctly describes extremists of all stripes.
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 11:12 AM
Aug 2014

Including gun control extremists and their fear of inanimate objects.
And obsessive gun carriers and their fear of their fellow humans.

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