African American
Related: About this forumI'm tired of race being used as a wedge issue in politics.
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Number23 (a host of the African American group).
Yes, racial issues are extremely important and need to be addressed, but there are people out there determined to drive a wedge between other groups of people simply for political gain. It's despicable, selfish, and in the end is counterproductive.
End rant.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Maybe if we discussed race normally and not just when black votes were needed, it would no be called a wedge but an ISSUE that deserves ATTENTION all the time!! You do not get to decide which issues are real an important while we blacks have no say so.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Maybe there's some people here who feel the same way.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Presumptuous, even?
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Because I'm white means I can't discuss racial issues?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Is racism our fault? Is it our fault politician only think of us every two to four tears?
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)All I'm saying is that there are politicians out there who use race as a wedge issue. You don't have to agree, but I think I have the right to bring it up here.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)I'm saying that *other people* use it as one. That's what bothers me.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)At our reduction to our race? At the fact that we must stand together whether we agree or not because of how deeply race effects us? At the fact that many can ignore race if they choose for years straight but we live it every day and they just want us to shut up about it to make things easier for them?
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Because this was not in good taste.
It is the absolute dismissiveness of any race discussion that has us at this place. If one side would stop calling race a wedge issue and us stockholm syndrome victims and stop ignoring black voices, things would stand differently. Next time, try to be polite. We are more receptive to good manners than folks telling us how uninformed we are or dismissing our race discissions as race baiting or wedge issues. We are our race, it is not a wedge but is used that way. Best to have a good relationship with us in the first place so that cannot happen. Might be better to inform those who are among the group on where THEY failed WITH US, than to give us the rant they deserve so much more.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)I can't make that any clearer. I'm saying that certain politicians *use* race as a wedge issue. And I *want* to talk about race because it's incredibly important, but I don't think it should be done in a way that lumps all AAs or Latinos or Native Americans together into one conglomerated mass where you're either for them or against them. Does that make sense?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The ones who need help are out THERE.
Look. You should read a few threads. You will see we have done this topic to death. Heck, it was dead before my time here, and we keep beating that horse. If people actually listened to us, racism might be almost over. You need to help WHITE PEOPLE. They need you to help them. We already get it. My six year old is better on race than many adults. She notices color, she loves them all, everybody is beautiful to her. It's others who need help understanding that. Black folks are intersectional as a rule. We have never had a choice. We always mix in.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)And believe me I've tried talking to some of my friends about race, but it's hard. We all grew up in white privilege, and I'm lucky that life experiences have taught me about race relations. My girlfriend and grandmother have been tremendous influences in that regard as well. We could chat about that in PM's sometime if you'd like. But man, my friends just haven't "seen the light" so to speak. And it's tough for them because they've never lived outside the bubble of white suburbia.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I have no problem listening to rants in private, it's actually better that way because nobody will alert you.
Number23
(24,544 posts)HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)with you that discussions about race are wedge issues? Do you genuinely believe you will find a sympathetic audience here?
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)How very interesting.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)And yeah, I'm a Bernie supporter. So what? I've generally refrained from posting here out of respect for the group's privacy, but I felt that this particular thread was warranted.
Number23
(24,544 posts)What was your one "other" OP that you posted in this group?
elleng
(130,126 posts)Lguard78
(1 post)I take it you're a Bernie supporter? There's no wedge Hillary Clinton has been with the African American Community all her political career there's a reason for her getting 90% of the black vote. Do your homework and I guarantee you you will see why the black community loves Hillary Clinton.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)I also know some of what she's advocated her hurt the AA community tremendously. This thread isn't about Hillary though. It's about politics in general.
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)I figured you'd sneak something in regardless.....
cause you should also know that some of what he's advocated hurt the AA community tremendously, right?
See, that's what I mean....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=44716
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Another poster brought that up. I'm talking about politics in general and how politicians use race to their advantage.
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)so you figured it was fair to remind poster about something about Hillary,
but then you stopped after that....
Why, if you're just simply tired of it all? Why the inability to stay balanced?
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)The poster said that Hillary has done many good things for the AA community, which I agreed with. I just added that she's supported other things that have harmed the AA community, which is true. But again, I didn't come here to talk about Hillary or any other candidate specifically. Sure, I'm going to defend my own views if I think they're being challenged, which I think anybody would, but the point of the thread is to look at politics as a whole.
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)well so, thank you ever so much for that!
I know that I am forever grateful for the balance you wisely provided
to that brand newcomer's comment, that you perceived as an attack.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)And for the last time, this thread isn't about Hillary and I never wanted it to be. So if you want to keep bringing her up then I'm afraid I'm just going to stop responding.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)Black folk have been dealing with imperfect politicians since this country's inception. And not only that, imperfect constituents, which we have to watch carefully with a side eye and vote against, legislation be damned, election after election.
Hence, the expectation is not perfection..it's GROWTH.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)How rude to come in here and just dump this on people without reading through other threads. We don't come to your place and dump negativity in the middle of your living room.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)And it's a relevant topic.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I didn't see a sign up there that said white feelings. It says African American group.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)You, as a Hillary supporter, are welcome to post in the Bernie group so long as you're not trolling or being abusive. That certainly wasn't my intention here.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)They even block Bernie people who step out of lane. I have the group trashed, and therefore do not care. However, groups for candidates are not the same as a space for discussion of minority issues. Politicians come and go--people's lived experiences should be approached with some intention to listen, not to rant in their space.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)And in fact, judging by some of the responses in this thread it appears that there are. As for the Bernie group? Sure, they're sensitive to Hillary supporters there just as the Hillary group is sensitive to Bernie supporters. Just fyi, I've only posted in the Hillary group once in order to correct a factual error in an OP. I understand why groups exist, I just felt that this particular thread would be relevant here. Didn't mean to step on anybody's toes.
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)There are "some" people who only discuss welfare, crime and incarceration but only when talking to Black people about their election choices, right around the time of a Big vote in a predominantly Democratic Black State.... while seemingly throwing under the bus any and all of our Civil Rights Icons, except for the Dead ones, who their swear up an down would have voted for their candidate if only they were still alive.....
Just like there are Television outlets that bring up OJ out of the blue about some long lost weapon just about the time that racism is being discussed on television due to Trumps racist appeal. They discuss the story ad nausea for an entire news cycle, even after being informed that the weapon doesn't fit into the 20 year old scene of the crime.
So yeah, it is all quite sick and very sad.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)If I were a black man I'd be pretty damn offended if someone trying to convince me to vote for a candidate only talked about racial issues. On the other hand that person's heart is probably in the right place, but they're just ignorant.
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)but racial issues from 20 years ago....as seen via the lenses of today's time only...
as the main critique of the opponent....
while conveniently leaving out critique of their own opponent, like you know, about Gun control and shit....
like they are the only ones qualified to selectively decide what should be important to us and what needs no mentions.
UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)Quite frankly I'm sick of it on both sides. Too many Bernie folks want to speak for Black folks and tell them why voting for Hillary over Bernie is against our best interest or whatever. However, I've seen Hillary people say that if Black voters abandon Hillary now, when she got her supporters to back Obama in 2008 that they would be pissed. Its that entitlement bullshit from both sides I can't stand. Basically, if Blacks don't tow the line for your candidate then there's a big problem. Blacks are going to vote for who they want to vote for and thats it. PERIOD. END OF STORY.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)That's exactly what I was trying to get at.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)but in a way that you subtly seem to not quite get...
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)I figured there'd be some like minded people here.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)We don't like talking about the shit. It's not a game or some fun past time, like painting or gardening or hot air ballooning. Idealistically, it shouldn't be an issue. But it is and that's reality.
And quite frankly, it's an issue because people refuse to acknowledge the history of America, the home of the free and the brave.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)Not a game out here. Where they do that at?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It's like watching a movie for some people. Not real.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,207 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Who in particular?
Number23
(24,544 posts)We're all shocked that this was a subtle attempt from you to diss Hillary. Shocked.