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Mosby

(16,160 posts)
Sat May 23, 2015, 10:35 PM May 2015

Faith fight: Churches at odds over teachings

FOUNTAIN HILLS, Ariz. - Call it a faith fight: religion is at the center of a controversy brewing in Fountain Hills. It seems some traditional Christian churches are at odds with what's being labeled as "Progressive Christianity."

That community is known for stunning scenery, retirees and high-end homes -- religion took center stage when banners started showing up Tuesday on eight traditional Christian churches in the area.

The banners promote a series of special sermons that start on Sunday named "Progressive Christianity: Fact or Fiction."

"And when you have an effort collaborated by multiple churches in one community to try to discredit one other way of thinking, that's when it becomes alarming," said Rev. David Felten, head of The Fountains Progressive Christian Church.

Video at link:

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/story/29058247/2015/05/13/faith-fight

This was posted on a FH FB page:

The following was posted to The Fountains Facebook page in support of Pastor David Felten and The Fountains UMC. It was signed by 102 different Presbyterian USA pastors from all over the country--so far. What a wonderful and supportive letter: I think it says it all!

A RESPONSE TO REV. BILL GOOD AND THE CHURCHES OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
ATTACKING PROGRESSIVE CHRISTIANS

Recently eight churches in Fountain Hills, Arizona, posted banners announcing a collective sermon series entitled “’Progressive’ Christianity: Fact or Fiction.” The Rev. Bill Good of Fountain Hills Presbyterian Church, and president of the local clergy association, mischaracterized in his first sermon a distinction between “Progressive Christianity” and what he called “Biblical Christianity,” insinuating that Progressive Christianity is not Biblical nor a valid expression of Christian faith. We respectfully reject this false dichotomy and claim what is often labeled as Progressive Christianity to be a faithful expression of Christian faith in the spirit of Jesus Christ who crossed cultural boundaries and challenged traditional norms for the sake of God’s love, especially for the poor, oppressed, and socially marginalized. The entire spirit of this campaign is not in keeping with the teachings of Jesus Christ.
As clergy members of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), the same denomination as Rev. Good, we, the undersigned of this statement, celebrate the vast diversity of expressions of Christian faith present in the Body of Christ—the Church universal—and further state that Rev. Good’s views do not represent our views, the views of the Christian congregations we serve, nor the views of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.).

The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is a Christian denomination and has been, and continues to be, a classically liberal denomination of Christian faith that attempts to honor diversity of opinion and faith, even protecting the voices of minority positions, while still keeping to the essentials of Christian faith. We are hesitant to define these essentials, understanding that we will make mistakes and are still growing in our understanding of God’s will. We tend to be cautious around any dogmatic statements or claims of absolute truth because God is infinite and cannot be contained by the limits of human understanding and language. Each statement that is made, however, combined with the many statements and understandings offered throughout our historical tradition, offer glimpses of truth that help us discern God’s will for our lives today and for the positive and faithful transformation of the world according to God’s creative love and grace, as revealed through Jesus Christ.

The Hebrew Scriptures teach us to “not bear false witness against our neighbor” (Exodus 20.16). We believe Rev. Good and his colleagues are preaching a distorted view of progressive Christianity to serve their own purposes rather than God’s. In our Gospels, Jesus teaches us to “do to others as you would have them do to you” (Matthew 7.12). A major thread that runs throughout the Bible, and summarized by Jesus, is that we are called to love God and love our neighbors as we love ourselves. An important aspect of this love is the respect of self and others, especially those with whom we might disagree (Matthew 5.44). We believe Rev. Good’s intentions violate God’s standards of love and seek to tear down rather than build up the Body of Christ.

We celebrate and appreciate a healthy tension between conservative, progressive, and other understandings of God, Jesus, and the Bible, even though we may disagree on many things. We believe we are all better together than apart, and seek to build bridges of understanding and mutual respect. Each perspective presents opportunities and challenges that hold us all accountable to the Spirit of God and the central Biblical call to healthy, mutual and faithful relationships. But we cannot support, condone, nor keep silent about anyone who claims Christian identity and then openly attacks the peace, unity, and purity of the Body of Christ by calling some within it “not really Christian.”
We consider Rev. Good a colleague and a brother in Christ, along with the other clergy participating in this action. We are deeply saddened by the tone and language being used in this campaign, and are especially concerned as the campaign seems to be directed at one particular neighboring congregation: The Fountains United Methodist Church and its pastor, the Rev. David Felten. We believe Rev. Good’s actions are not in keeping with Jesus’ teachings, nor the teachings of our Scriptures. We implore Rev. Good and his colleagues to stop this divisive behavior. We stand in solidarity with Rev. Felten and our sisters and brothers at The Fountains, and hold them all in prayer. We also hold in prayer Rev. Good, our sisters and brothers in the congregation he serves, and the other clergy and congregations participating, trusting that somehow God’s love will win in the end for all of our sakes.

We implore Rev. Good and his colleagues to stop these attacks, take down their banners, and, in the spirit of Jesus Christ, seek to be in conversation and dialogue to seek deeper understanding and respect, rather than resorting to overly simplistic attacks that further drive a wedge into the heart of the Body of Christ—seeking understanding over division; seeking to love rather than hate; seeking to build up rather than tear down.
Sincerely, your sisters and brothers in Christ,

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cbayer

(146,218 posts)
2. Really? Where do you see the similarities?
Sat May 23, 2015, 10:41 PM
May 2015

Which group do you associate with which group?

Let's start here. Tell me what the major differences are between Suni ahd Shia.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
12. O.K. then. Shades of Hatfields Vs. McCoys.
Sun May 24, 2015, 12:18 AM
May 2015

The major difference between Suni and Shia is that Suni hate the Shia, while on the other hand, the Shia don't hate the Shia, they hate the Suni.

Beyond that, who the hell cares? Two groups of fanatics trying to kill each other. Fanatics, whether they call themselves Suni/Shia; Hatfields/McCoys; Irish Catholics/Irish Protestants; Jews/Muslims; Hutu/Tutsi; doesn't matter. The important thing about fanatics is that they all have in common their willingness, even eagerness, to kill the "other".

(Notice that I did not say "all Muslims are fanatics", or "all Irish Catholics are fanatics", or any other such blanket slur, so please be good enough to not accuse me of that. I only mention that proactively to head you off at the pass before you get the chance to hurl that particular accusation at me.)

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
14. So you see these two groups as equivalent?
Sun May 24, 2015, 07:22 AM
May 2015

And you don't care that one support liberal/progressive values and agendas while the other actively fights against them?

I care, by the way, as so many other people. Your inability to make a distinction between the two and see them both as fanatics trying to kill each other is emblematic of the position some non-believers have. These problems are divisive and counter-productive.

No need to head me off eat the pass. Its very clear what your position here is. You can't distinguish between religious people who are on your side and those that aren't.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
6. It's coke vs. piss.
Sat May 23, 2015, 10:48 PM
May 2015

Not being able to see the difference epitomizes the problem. One is entirely on your side and the other hates you.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
16. "One is entirely on your side and the other hates you."
Sun May 24, 2015, 09:29 AM
May 2015

Wow, with that simplistic black-and-white worldview, no wonder you struggle to be taken seriously.

For anyone who is interested, a brief summary of the schism is here:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/05/economist-explains-19

And no, it is not as simple as 'one is on your side and the other hates you.' FFS.

Mosby

(16,160 posts)
4. Fountain Hills is very conservative politically
Sat May 23, 2015, 10:43 PM
May 2015

So it's not really surprising that the churches follow suit, the one exception being this Methodist church.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
5. Here is a sample of the signs they are posting.
Sat May 23, 2015, 10:47 PM
May 2015


The good news here is that they feel threatened by the open and affirming churches in their area. Previously they just marched through thinking that no one would challenge them.

This is where us (liberal/progressive people) and them (conservative/fundamentalists) becomes clear.

You want to stop the progression of the religious right and their fight for dominionism? Stand behind Pastor David Felten and The Fountains UMC.

Mosby

(16,160 posts)
9. they could not tolerate one little church preaching a progressive view of Christianity
Sat May 23, 2015, 10:51 PM
May 2015

So they ganged up on them, sad.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
10. Only because they have become a threat.
Sat May 23, 2015, 10:55 PM
May 2015

You've read all those articles about people leaving mainline churches, right? Many are leaving because they can't tolerate the messages of hate and intolerance. Give them an alternative and all hell could break loose (pun intended).

Thanks for posting this Mosby. I stand with the UMC.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
15. Do you have evidence that this one little church
Sun May 24, 2015, 09:12 AM
May 2015

in this very conservative town was eroding the membership of the conservative churches? Or did you just make that up?

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