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guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 01:12 PM Sep 2017

Colin Kaepernick vs. Tim Tebow: A tale of two Christians on their knees

From the article:

Here, Michael Frost reflects on the differences between Kaepernick and Tim Tebow.
They're both Christian football players, and they're both known for kneeling on the field, although for very different reasons.
One grew up the son of Baptist missionaries to the Philippines. The other was baptized Methodist, confirmed Lutheran, and attended a Baptist church during college.
Both have made a public display of their faith. Both are prayerful and devout......

This is the tale of two Christian sports personalities, one of whom is the darling of the American church while the other is reviled. And their differences reveal much about the brand of Christianity preferred by many in the church today.


To read more:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/09/24/colin-kaepernick-vs-tim-tebow-a-tale-of-two-christianities-on-its-knees/
41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Colin Kaepernick vs. Tim Tebow: A tale of two Christians on their knees (Original Post) guillaumeb Sep 2017 OP
The article is good as far as it goes, but marylandblue Sep 2017 #1
A nice distinction. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #2
Agreed. Your white church vs. black church description is spot on. That's exactly what is happening. LonePirate Sep 2017 #3
Why co-opt this for your religion? trotsky Sep 2017 #4
First, the title of the post was taken from the title of the article. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #5
You must have agreed, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this in the Religion group. trotsky Sep 2017 #6
I like to present a balanced view of faith. I acknowledge the good and the bad. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #7
LOL. You need to pick. trotsky Sep 2017 #8
Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #9
LMAO trotsky Sep 2017 #12
One hopes that this means that you do understand why the article was posted here. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #15
LOL! trotsky Sep 2017 #16
Seems like another data point that most christians are racist. Thanks for posting it. AtheistCrusader Sep 2017 #17
One can always find validation for a previously held position. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #18
That's just, like, your opinion, man. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2017 #33
This is about the 2 dueling concepts of Jesus. delisen Sep 2017 #10
I embrace both concepts. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #11
What exactly is the "message of Jesus"? trotsky Sep 2017 #13
It is for anyone to discover. eom guillaumeb Sep 2017 #14
Oh, so everyone who believes they discovered it, has? n/t trotsky Sep 2017 #20
I can only answer for myself. eom guillaumeb Sep 2017 #23
So as far as you're concerned, you are the only person on the planet... trotsky Sep 2017 #25
If you are convinced that is what I said, nothing I say will change that. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #26
"I can only answer for myself" means what, exactly? trotsky Sep 2017 #27
I assumed that readers would understand my meaning. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #28
So for those millions of Christians out there who disagree with you... trotsky Sep 2017 #32
If you read my post, you have your answer for your first question. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #34
It's OK. trotsky Sep 2017 #35
Another very revealing response. eom guillaumeb Sep 2017 #36
Yes, yours is. trotsky Sep 2017 #37
a good belief Angry Dragon Sep 2017 #39
everuone has their own path Angry Dragon Sep 2017 #40
what a lousy answer Angry Dragon Sep 2017 #38
I see no reason why not. eom guillaumeb Sep 2017 #41
In a nutshell: "Believe I can save you or go to Hell eternally." MineralMan Sep 2017 #19
In meme form: trotsky Sep 2017 #21
"See what you made me do to you?" MineralMan Sep 2017 #22
Spoken ex cathedra? guillaumeb Sep 2017 #24
Spoken ex atheistae MineralMan Sep 2017 #29
"Religion" is a creation of human beings. guillaumeb Sep 2017 #30
How does that speak to the post MineralMan Sep 2017 #31

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
1. The article is good as far as it goes, but
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 01:20 PM
Sep 2017

among evangelicals, it's the black church vs. the white church.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
2. A nice distinction.
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 01:24 PM
Sep 2017

On one side, there are Franklin Graham, and Oral Roberts, and Jerry Falwell Jr., and Tim Tebow. All are approved by the right wing Christians. On the other side are people like William Barber and Colin Kaepernick. In addition to being progressives, they are not white.

LonePirate

(13,386 posts)
3. Agreed. Your white church vs. black church description is spot on. That's exactly what is happening.
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 01:38 PM
Sep 2017

I don't agree with the article's final assertion that both the Tebow church and the Kaepernick church need to be more like the other. To me it seems like the former is mostly about punishing (some) individuals in society while the former is about helping (all) people in society. Ymmv, of course.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
4. Why co-opt this for your religion?
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 03:12 PM
Sep 2017

It's about justice and quality.

And I guarantee you that not every NFL player who took a knee this past weekend was a Christian.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
5. First, the title of the post was taken from the title of the article.
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 04:53 PM
Sep 2017

So your comment should be addressed to the author.
Second, I agree that it is about justice and equality, and police violence directed against black people.
Third, I said nothing about athletes and different beliefs. But I agree that, as in every venue, it is very likely that there are non-theistic athletes.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
6. You must have agreed, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this in the Religion group.
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 04:58 PM
Sep 2017

My goodness you make it too easy.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
7. I like to present a balanced view of faith. I acknowledge the good and the bad.
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 05:02 PM
Sep 2017

So I post a range or articles, from a Lego Last Supper to "the world will end on Saturday" type articles, to more serious topics. I think balance is a good thing.

Others obviously disagree, and their posts reflect that.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
8. LOL. You need to pick.
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 05:21 PM
Sep 2017

Either the issue is about "faith" or "religion," or it is not.

If it is not, as you seem to admit in post #5 ("Second, I agree that it is about justice and equality, and police violence directed against black people." ), then it shouldn't have been posted here. This isn't about you being "fair and balanced," it's about you deciding this is a legitimate religious issue, and therefore posting it here in the Religion group, and then being caught in a trap of your own design and trying to pretend everything's fine.

You can continue to humiliate yourself further, if you wish. I do so enjoy watching.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
9. Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted.
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 05:57 PM
Sep 2017

The sentence above describes part of the purpose of this group. In full, it reads:

Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.


As to your latest response, taking out your attempts at humor, you seem uncertain as to why the article was posted here. So if you read the statement of purpose above and apply it to the article I am certain that you will understand why it was posted here.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
12. LMAO
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 09:10 AM
Sep 2017

You: "I agree that it is about justice and equality, and police violence directed against black people."

Also you (quoting the rules): "Discuss religious and theological issues."

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
15. One hopes that this means that you do understand why the article was posted here.
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 10:55 AM
Sep 2017

I am always glad to be of service.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
17. Seems like another data point that most christians are racist. Thanks for posting it.
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 01:29 PM
Sep 2017

I figure someone else would have posted it, but hey, way to be helpful.

delisen

(6,039 posts)
10. This is about the 2 dueling concepts of Jesus.
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 06:45 PM
Sep 2017

In the evangelical tradition Jesus is often depicted as knocking on your door (representing the door of your heart). All you have to do is open the door and let him in. It is a personal Jesus. You are saved. Bingo!

The other Christian tradition is that of Christ on the Doorstep, the stranger in need. I was hungry and you fed me, I was naked and you clothed me.....Your salvation comes through caring for the least of us, through empathy, through devotion to others. That is your road to salvation.

It is not only a dichotomy in religious belief, it is a difference in philosophy. Non-reigious people also choose or lean toward one or the other way of life.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
11. I embrace both concepts.
Tue Sep 26, 2017, 08:17 PM
Sep 2017

The first is for me the recognition of the message of Jesus. But, He also said to go and sin no more. So personal responsibility is also an important component of the message.

And caring for the stranger, the other, is a strong component.

Thank you for the response.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
25. So as far as you're concerned, you are the only person on the planet...
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 04:35 PM
Sep 2017

to figure out what Jesus' true message was.

Wow, that's amazing. When will you share with everyone else so we can put an end to all religious strife?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
26. If you are convinced that is what I said, nothing I say will change that.
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 04:39 PM
Sep 2017

Not amazing. Not at this point.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
27. "I can only answer for myself" means what, exactly?
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 04:51 PM
Sep 2017

If you're tired of me allegedly misstating your position, why don't you just come out and say exactly what your position is, so I don't have to guess?

Have you figured out what Jesus' true message is? Yes or no?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
28. I assumed that readers would understand my meaning.
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 08:09 PM
Sep 2017

But if I am mistaken in that, here in brief is my belief:
I believe that the message of Jesus can be summed up in Galatians 5:14

The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."



So I take Him at His word and try to live in accordance with that.
When I fail, I try again.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
32. So for those millions of Christians out there who disagree with you...
Thu Sep 28, 2017, 09:46 AM
Sep 2017

are they wrong?

Additionally, if others observe your behavior and are utterly unconvinced of your efforts to treat others well, what does that say about your legitimacy as a self-proclaimed Christian?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
34. If you read my post, you have your answer for your first question.
Thu Sep 28, 2017, 05:17 PM
Sep 2017

Your second question is, in my view, a thinly disguised attack and an accusation framed as a question.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
35. It's OK.
Thu Sep 28, 2017, 05:21 PM
Sep 2017

I completely understand why you won't answer those questions.

As I've stated multiple times, I am content simply allowing you to humiliate yourself over and over again. You do far more harm to your religion than I ever could, and for that I thank you.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
22. "See what you made me do to you?"
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 02:18 PM
Sep 2017

Something like that, I guess. It seems to me that I've heard that from abused spouses as the last thing they heard before waking up in the ER.

God of love? Spare me from that kind of love, please. More evidence that religion is a creation of human beings, not deities.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
29. Spoken ex atheistae
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 08:23 PM
Sep 2017

We have no churches or cathedrals. They're useless to us. You can find a version of my statement in several places in the NT.

Try John 14;6 for one. That one should pop right out in your memory.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
30. "Religion" is a creation of human beings.
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 08:26 PM
Sep 2017

Well yes, given that humans occupy this planet, it stands to reason that any religions followed by humans were created by humans. Religion meaning religious organizations, of course.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
31. How does that speak to the post
Wed Sep 27, 2017, 08:38 PM
Sep 2017

to which it is a reply? I quoted the supposed words of the Christian deity, as translated into English, and that's your response?

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