Religion
Related: About this forumColin Kaepernick vs. Tim Tebow: A tale of two Christians on their knees
From the article:
They're both Christian football players, and they're both known for kneeling on the field, although for very different reasons.
One grew up the son of Baptist missionaries to the Philippines. The other was baptized Methodist, confirmed Lutheran, and attended a Baptist church during college.
Both have made a public display of their faith. Both are prayerful and devout......
This is the tale of two Christian sports personalities, one of whom is the darling of the American church while the other is reviled. And their differences reveal much about the brand of Christianity preferred by many in the church today.
To read more:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/09/24/colin-kaepernick-vs-tim-tebow-a-tale-of-two-christianities-on-its-knees/
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)among evangelicals, it's the black church vs. the white church.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)On one side, there are Franklin Graham, and Oral Roberts, and Jerry Falwell Jr., and Tim Tebow. All are approved by the right wing Christians. On the other side are people like William Barber and Colin Kaepernick. In addition to being progressives, they are not white.
LonePirate
(13,386 posts)I don't agree with the article's final assertion that both the Tebow church and the Kaepernick church need to be more like the other. To me it seems like the former is mostly about punishing (some) individuals in society while the former is about helping (all) people in society. Ymmv, of course.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)It's about justice and quality.
And I guarantee you that not every NFL player who took a knee this past weekend was a Christian.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)So your comment should be addressed to the author.
Second, I agree that it is about justice and equality, and police violence directed against black people.
Third, I said nothing about athletes and different beliefs. But I agree that, as in every venue, it is very likely that there are non-theistic athletes.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)My goodness you make it too easy.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)So I post a range or articles, from a Lego Last Supper to "the world will end on Saturday" type articles, to more serious topics. I think balance is a good thing.
Others obviously disagree, and their posts reflect that.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Either the issue is about "faith" or "religion," or it is not.
If it is not, as you seem to admit in post #5 ("Second, I agree that it is about justice and equality, and police violence directed against black people." ), then it shouldn't have been posted here. This isn't about you being "fair and balanced," it's about you deciding this is a legitimate religious issue, and therefore posting it here in the Religion group, and then being caught in a trap of your own design and trying to pretend everything's fine.
You can continue to humiliate yourself further, if you wish. I do so enjoy watching.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)The sentence above describes part of the purpose of this group. In full, it reads:
Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.
As to your latest response, taking out your attempts at humor, you seem uncertain as to why the article was posted here. So if you read the statement of purpose above and apply it to the article I am certain that you will understand why it was posted here.
You: "I agree that it is about justice and equality, and police violence directed against black people."
Also you (quoting the rules): "Discuss religious and theological issues."
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I am always glad to be of service.
Always a pleasure!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I figure someone else would have posted it, but hey, way to be helpful.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And you found your validation.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)delisen
(6,039 posts)In the evangelical tradition Jesus is often depicted as knocking on your door (representing the door of your heart). All you have to do is open the door and let him in. It is a personal Jesus. You are saved. Bingo!
The other Christian tradition is that of Christ on the Doorstep, the stranger in need. I was hungry and you fed me, I was naked and you clothed me.....Your salvation comes through caring for the least of us, through empathy, through devotion to others. That is your road to salvation.
It is not only a dichotomy in religious belief, it is a difference in philosophy. Non-reigious people also choose or lean toward one or the other way of life.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)The first is for me the recognition of the message of Jesus. But, He also said to go and sin no more. So personal responsibility is also an important component of the message.
And caring for the stranger, the other, is a strong component.
Thank you for the response.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Do all Christians agree?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)to figure out what Jesus' true message was.
Wow, that's amazing. When will you share with everyone else so we can put an end to all religious strife?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Not amazing. Not at this point.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)If you're tired of me allegedly misstating your position, why don't you just come out and say exactly what your position is, so I don't have to guess?
Have you figured out what Jesus' true message is? Yes or no?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But if I am mistaken in that, here in brief is my belief:
I believe that the message of Jesus can be summed up in Galatians 5:14
So I take Him at His word and try to live in accordance with that.
When I fail, I try again.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)are they wrong?
Additionally, if others observe your behavior and are utterly unconvinced of your efforts to treat others well, what does that say about your legitimacy as a self-proclaimed Christian?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Your second question is, in my view, a thinly disguised attack and an accusation framed as a question.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I completely understand why you won't answer those questions.
As I've stated multiple times, I am content simply allowing you to humiliate yourself over and over again. You do far more harm to your religion than I ever could, and for that I thank you.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Quite.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)that is why their god is so mysterious to them
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Can one get salvation through all religions??
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Something like that.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Something like that, I guess. It seems to me that I've heard that from abused spouses as the last thing they heard before waking up in the ER.
God of love? Spare me from that kind of love, please. More evidence that religion is a creation of human beings, not deities.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)We have no churches or cathedrals. They're useless to us. You can find a version of my statement in several places in the NT.
Try John 14;6 for one. That one should pop right out in your memory.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Well yes, given that humans occupy this planet, it stands to reason that any religions followed by humans were created by humans. Religion meaning religious organizations, of course.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)to which it is a reply? I quoted the supposed words of the Christian deity, as translated into English, and that's your response?