Religion
Related: About this forumWhat Believers and Atheists Can Learn From Each Other
Posted: 05/30/2012 12:50 pm
By Rabbi Geoffrey Mitelman and Sam McNerney
Rabbi Geoffrey Mitelman: It's inherently challenging for believers and atheists to have productive conversations. Discussing topics such as belief and nonbelief, the potential irrationality of religion, or the limits of scientific knowledge is difficult since each side often ends up more firmly entrenched in their own worldview.
But one bright person interested in broadening the conversation is Sam McNerney, a science writer who focuses on cognitive science and an atheist interested in religion from a psychological point of view.
I found Sam through his writing on ScientificAmerican.com, and started reading his blog Why We Reason and his posts on BigThink.com. We discovered that even though we approached religion from different perspectives, we had great respect for each other.
So as two people with different religious outlooks we wondered: What can we learn from each other?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-geoffrey-a-mitelman/believers-and-atheists-can-learn-from-each-other_b_1554316.html
longship
(40,416 posts)It really is the only way (as Bill Nye might say) to get 'er done! We want to change the world and we need each other to do that.
Anyway, any atheist who wants to rid the world of religion is not thinking realistically. As Dennett has said (paraphrasing): rather, we want a less virulent version of religion, one with fewer toxic effects.
That would improve our world immensely. Let's stay together and get 'er done.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Here's to you, longship.
longship
(40,416 posts)daaron
(763 posts)NOT sarcasm! Let's do this you crazy wonderful leftists, libs, progs and proles!!!
longship
(40,416 posts)We're all one happy family here (except that dualist argument, or whether religion is evil, or whether -- horrors -- there is free will).
Sköl to you, too, my friend.
daaron
(763 posts)Nor do I, at least, have any desire to do so! Personally, I have more in common with atheists than most fellow Christians (speaking generically and including all the various sects, however extreme) -- it's that whole knowledge thing: I had to quite disconnect the basis of my belief from what I learn from history and current events. As an agnostic, it is true what I've read atheists here saying: knowledge and belief are not at the extremes of a gradient.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Response to rug (Original post)
AnotherMcIntosh This message was self-deleted by its author.
rug
(82,333 posts)Response to rug (Reply #3)
AnotherMcIntosh This message was self-deleted by its author.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)There is much to be learned here about having civil discussions about difficult topics.
rug
(82,333 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)So in many cases we already know both sides of the argument(s).
Indeed, if you also consider the fact that atheists are the most knowledgeable group in America regarding religion I'm not sure that atheists have all that much to learn from believers.
rug
(82,333 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)One that damn few Christians can meet, particularly when you consider that over half of Protestants don't know who Martin Luther was.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39397251/ns/us_news-life/t/survey-americans-dont-know-much-about-religion/
More than half of Protestants could not identify Martin Luther as the person who inspired the Protestant Reformation. And about four in 10 Jews did not know that Maimonides, one of the greatest rabbis and intellectuals in history, was Jewish.
rug
(82,333 posts)"When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom."
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)And yet the song "I'm proud to be an American" is remarkably popular with many Christians..
Evidently a great many Christians are also not familiar with that particular scripture.
rug
(82,333 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)That was one of the songs they played and I heard all the kids singing along, they all knew it.
Yeah, it creeped me out out too.
rug
(82,333 posts)Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)We are not enemies, just a bunch of thinking mammals flying through the universe on the same rock, with different ideas as to how we got here and from where we came. Where we come from is a question that will never be answered to the satisfaction of everyone. How we behave while we are here is the question we need to ask ourselves daily.
rug
(82,333 posts)Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)And I'll tell you why, because as we retreat into this happy, fuzzy, "let's all get along" territory we make it not only safer and easier for hateful fools like Fred Phelps et al to be equally justified in their beliefs - but also harder for anyone to criticize them.
Another glaring mistake made in this article is assuming that the wonderful binding and authority-enforcing aspects of religion can only come from religion. I can speak for myself in saying that I get these feelings from a sense of civic pride and respect for my community. I need no religion to do that.
Meh, it's just another in the long line of "loudmouth atheists need to shut up and go away" pieces that want those who are asking the tough questions to be silenced.
rug
(82,333 posts)But I don't think that's what this conversation is about. It strikes me as a honest exchange even if they're not hostile.
And it's more productive than spewing terms like madness and Jesus bites.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)With what McNerney said:
If you go to the NY Times article, there is no mention whatsoever of atheists. Go ahead, do a search for the term. The article, talking about Jonathan Haidt's book and findings, is a commentary of liberalism's inability to address the moral reasoning of conservatism. Why was atheism brought into this?
rug
(82,333 posts)They are not synonymous.
This is the closest it comes to discussing belief and nonbelief: "You dont have to believe in God to see this higher capacity as part of our nature. You just have to believe in evolution."