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Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:08 PM

Bernie supporters have asked in a previous thread how will

Hillary be able to strengthen the Affordable Care Act as some of us believe she can, or get any agenda through the GOP congress, if we don’t think Bernie can get his agenda through the current Houses of Congress.

I think that with Hillary in the WH, she would be able to work with the GOP. For the record, I recorded and watch the entire 11 hour Benghazi congressional hearing when Hillary testified a while back. At the end of the hearing, while the C-SPAN cameras were still rolling, I watched as the chairman Trey Gowdy, who had by then come down from the bench, approached Hillary where she was speaking with other people at her table and he spoke to her and they were both laughing and nodding, and this went on for a couple of minutes. I was just shaking my head in disbelief at how much of a joke these hearings had been for the GOP as they feigned outrage after outrage, one by one, but once the hearing was over they come down, and shake hands and smile and make small talk with one another, just like they had not just previously accused her of everything including being the spawn of satan. These people have worked with Hillary in the past and they will work with her in the future because they have been sitting on their hands for the past 8 years, in their attempt to stifle any progress by President Obama, and have no significant accomplishments of their own to show for it.

If the GOP is listening to their "angry" constituents, they are angry because they feel that their party leadership has let them down and that they are not better off than they were 8 years ago. Well, if those people are honest with themselves, they realize that it’s not the Kenyan in the WH that sold them out, it’s; the GOP who did. It’s the GOP that didn’t want to turn the economy around while Obama was in the WH, and that is the reason that their college grad kids can’t find employment and are still living at home, or they themselves have seen their wages remain stagnate over the past couple of decades, if they're lucky to have a job themselves. Or that the shine has come off the TEA Party members of Congress who were disingenuous when they came to power with the plan to destroy government and the ACA, while they drew a government salary upwards of $170K, while accomplishing nothing for their constituents back home, while voting to repeal the ACA more than 50 times.

It is the GOP’s SCOTUS appointments who failed to delivery to them the death of the ACA, approved Gay Marriage, failed to overturn Roe v. Wade and even slapped down their ridiculous attempts to close Women’s clinics across the country by applying drastic building codes for women’s clinics that were not required to other clinics performing other low risk surgical procedures. So now having felt left out in the recovery that did result in the largest redistribution of wealth they want something to show for the country’s rising debt for themselves and their children, and they want to “Make America Great Again”. They appear to be leaning towards accepting a carnival barker and his sidekick to make that happen. The evangelicals have shown that they are willing to sell out the Canadian born son of the twice married Baptist preacher and his wife, who were willing to relinquish her US citizenship to get their share of the Canadian pie in the form of secure jobs and welfare benefits.

The GOP may call Hillary a liar to their constituents, but as members of the “establishment” they know that their goose is cooked if they return to Congress and think that they can sit on their hands and fiddle while Rome burns for another four years. They know that Hillary is pragmatic, and she is not the ‘big government socialist’ that Bernie Sanders wants to be. They have worked with her before and they will work with her again. They know that compromise will be required to get anything done, and they will find common ground, unlike Bernie Sanders whose Big Government proposals leaves no room for common ground.

So I believe that the establishment GOP (should they survive 2016) who were willing to accept Cruz or Trump as an acceptable candidate, would accept Hillary before a self described Democratic Socialist. Members of the Democratic Party don't believe in Santa Clause, or the Tooth Fairy. There is no Free Lunch. Someone has to pay for Bernie's ambitious agenda, and any new entitlement programs will have to be paid for, and their are enough millionaires and billionaires to pay for all these new entitlement programs that Bernie has proposed without eventually everyone having to pay much more in taxes than Bernie has been willing to acknowledge. We have known for some time that Social Security may have to cut benefits in order to save the program for everyone, and Bernie wants to double current Social Security payouts. Removing the cap limiting the amount of income that is taxed won't do it by itself with people living longer.

The problem with Bernie getting 'angry' and calling for a revolution while not being honest with his constituents is that when you can't deliver, and they don't get what they want, you're stuck with just a bunch of 'angry' people. So perhaps Bernie should stop calling for a revolution, because when people's hopes are raised and then you can't deliver on the promise, some people take it literally, especially young people, and that never works out well for anyone.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply Bernie supporters have asked in a previous thread how will (Original post)
politicaljunkie41910 Jan 2016 OP
Health Wagon Jan 2016 #1
daleanime Jan 2016 #2
jeff47 Jan 2016 #3
politicaljunkie41910 Jan 2016 #7
jeff47 Jan 2016 #20
Jarqui Jan 2016 #4
politicaljunkie41910 Jan 2016 #9
Jarqui Jan 2016 #11
Vinca Jan 2016 #5
Jarqui Jan 2016 #12
Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #6
politicaljunkie41910 Jan 2016 #13
Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #14
cali Jan 2016 #8
politicaljunkie41910 Jan 2016 #16
Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #19
JudyM Jan 2016 #10
politicaljunkie41910 Jan 2016 #15
JudyM Jan 2016 #17
Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #18

Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:14 PM

1. Here's Bernie's advantage. He has worked with Congress for many years, and knows how it works.

 

Clinton can't even do a damn thing because she's too polarizing

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:19 PM

2. If Hillary fails to lose the nomination.....

and the republicans don't manage to get veto proof majorities off her coattails, all they have to do is two more years of lock down, then run against her again. It would be the reddest congress ever seen.

That's assuming she wins the general election, of course.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:23 PM

3. The party that has scheduled more than 60 repeal votes will vote to strengthen the ACA.

THAT is the claim you are going to make?

And you want us to actually take that claim seriously?

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:54 PM

7. The issues that need to be strengthened affect everyone with healthcare.

We're not talking about extreme things here, like scraping the system and starting from scratch.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 27, 2016, 02:17 AM

20. Once again, 60 repeal votes. Explain how you get from 60 repeal votes

to "Ok, we'll improve the ACA". In detail instead of the hand-waving you are trying to pass off now.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:29 PM

4. So if she's that hot at working with the GOP, what the heck

happened with HillaryCare? She's already failed once.

The GOP hate Hillary's guts. See Benghazi scandal. See email scandal. See prior scandals. Hillary is a GOP scandal waiting to happen and the GOP will be out to impeach her. When they got the chance to shut down Obama, they did so. They will not give Hillary any legislative accomplishments.

In terms of getting things done legislatively, Bernie is much more experienced. As Senator from New York, Hillary did not accrue a lengthy list of legislative accomplishments. Without being part of a major party, I think Bernie got more done.

Unfortunately, for those living in a box, they're not going to properly perceive what Bernie is after. They're accepting the crumbs the current government in Washington is willing to give them.

Bernie is after the people with his "revolution" to also provide Dem control in the House and Senate. That's going to take time. But you have to start somewhere. It's what Obama needed and he only got in his 1st two years. Hillary isn't even asking for that. It's too hard. If you do not fight for it, that's a sure recipe you're not going to get it. Hillary's already raised the white flag. All she's really offering are the crumbs the billionaires will allow.

There's no guarantee Bernie is going to be successful legislatively. But at least he represents a shot that Hillary does not.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:02 PM

9. Obviously you didn't read my entire post. I said that all that hate for Hillary

is just for show. These people are cordial with her when they don't know that the cameras are watching them. They worked with her as a Senator after they impeached her husband and held hearings accusing her of involvement in Vince Foster's murder. This is what they do for showmanship. However, they are going to need to produce some results as, their constituents are angry. That assumes that their constituents don't throw the whole bunch out, which is doubtful. However, they won't be able to just go back at the start of a new term in 2017 and be able to sit on their hands and do nothing to help make people's lives easier. That doesn't mean that they are going to embrace Bernie's radical agenda by growing the government to the tune of trillions of dollars in new entitlement programs.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:10 PM

11. I don't buy that. Lindsay Graham or John McCain - GOPers like that

have some time for Hillary. But the majority hate her guts - maybe worse than their racism against Obama. It's not just for show. There's still lots of bitterness from the Clinton years.

This Benghazi thing has been a witch hunt. There was not much substance to any of it - beyond them ignoring the blame for cutting security funding and then pinning it on Hillary. It was a circus to damage her and it was a very successful circus in that regard.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:34 PM

5. If you think Hillary will be able to work with the GOP, you should remember the days when

her husband was able to work with the GOP. Great things came of it: welfare "reform" that made life more miserable for poor people, trade agreements that began the rapid descent of American manufacturing and "don't ask, don't tell." If Hillary is able to work with the GOP it's because she's giving them what they want. Maybe the answer is not to pander to them, but to actually create a movement that manages to put the House and Senate back in the Democrat's hands so something does get done eventually.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:12 PM

12. +1 well said nt

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:41 PM

6. As someone who asked

I asked for the details. What she will do and how she will pay for it. She said she can get us universal healthcare. No one left out. How? Details on how she reigns in the costs. How she pays for those who are unable to pay themselves. What are the premium costs going to be. That kind of thing.

Bernie was taken to task for not providing details. Then when he provided details he was taken to task on every detail. So I ask again. What is Hillary's plan. Not the grand ideas on her website. But the real plan and the real costs. Thanks.

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Response to Nanjeanne (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:13 PM

13. Hillary said that she plans to fix the current problems with the ACA. She recognizes

that the path from the ACA to universal health care for all will not be accomplished in one fell swoop, because it can't be done with the current makeup of Congress. That's why you don't see the costs related to such a plan because she didn't proposed that. She said that she would work with the Congress to fix the existing problems with the ACA and when the country is ready to move forward with universal health care, we will do so, and you will know it. It will come in the form of the Dems having something that resembles control of the Congress. Something they don't have now, and won't realistically have a realistic chance to control the House, until probably 2020 or 2022 at the earliest due to gerrymandering of districts with no hope of restructuring districts before the 2020 Census is taken. Assuming that Dems come out ahead in the 2020 Census, the next available election would be in 2022.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:21 PM

14. So because she aims low and doesn't think she can really accomplish anything

We should vote for her anyway because she just WILL fix it.

So maybe by 2022 we might get some of those healthcare costs in line and some of the millions of uninsured will maybe finally get insurance. And she doesn't need to tell us anything more than "trust her".

Now I understand her appeal.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:57 PM

8. Holy Fantasy World, Batman!

 

Wow. Your op isn't even tentatively tethered to reality.

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:29 PM

16. Says the person who has over a 100,000 posts on a message board. I work and have

raised a family and don't have the time or the luxury to spend half my waking hours on a political message board questioning other people's motives who disagree with my opinions.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:51 PM

19. Wow, you sure showed her.

derp

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:06 PM

10. Please provide factual support for your assertions in your next-to-last paragraph.

Otherwise it will continue to appear that you are just repeating GOP talking points pulled out of the air.
If it your opinion without being based on facts, please identify the assertions as such.

Thanks.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:24 PM

15. I laid out my case. I don't know what further factual support you need since

I don't know anything that I said which isn't common knowledge. Hillary had a cordial, and working relationship with members of the GOP when she was a Senator. There's no reason to believe she won't have one if she's president because she will make the effort. The GOP's base is angry, and their representatives won't be able to just sit on their hands and do nothing that helps make their constituents lives easier should she be elected. I don't think anything I've said is that extreme or needs further explanation. Bernie's agenda, on the other hand, is extreme, whether you acknowledge that or not. His programs require growing the cost and size of government A LOT. If you don't see that, I can't make it any more clear, and I don't care what you call me. I know what I am and what party I have been a voting member of for the past 40 years. I'm also a Veteran who has served this country and want only great things for it. But I'm willing to be patient, because I know that they will eventually come.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:49 PM

17. Ok, well I respect and appreciate that you served and that you are busy with real life outside DU,

as you mentioned above. I think I get where you're coming from, then. There have been at least a couple of independent reviews of Bernie's proposals that have concluded that the numbers add up (actually better than Hillary's, as I recall). If you are interested in seeing them you can look around here and find them or maybe someone else reading this can put their hands on those posts easily and post them on this thread.

I confess to not being a financial wiz but what you said about there being enough (sic) billionaires may be right, but that doesn't matter because he is not relying just on raising personal taxes of the wealthiest... He is also planning on closing corporate tax loopholes, bringing back corporate taxes on $ our corporations are holding in offshore accounts, taxing investment transactions differently, etc... There is such a huge pot of that $ in the aggregate that he will not need to raise personal taxes or raid social security.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:50 PM

18. The only thing the GOP congress is going to do "with" Hillary as president is investiage her.

That is what we'll spend the next 4 years doing.

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