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cali

(114,904 posts)
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:33 AM Feb 2016

Bernie Sanders and the African American vote.

This is ANALYSIS, not advocacy, and I'm not trying to dampen enthusiasm for Bernie, just expressing what I see.

Bernie Sanders is not a natural fit with the AA electorate. His past civil rights activism is a minor factor if it is a factor at all. AA voters are more conservative and religious than white voters. Bernie is a pretty secular Jew. Hillary is a religious Protestant, like the vast majority of AA voters. Religious voters are less likely to vote for someone widely considered to be secular. It's harder to know if his being Jewish is a factor that works against him. AA voters like the Clintons. They feel comfortable with the Clintons. And I put that in the plural because Bill is a big asset here. Bernie is an outsider to AA voters. I don't see that changing significantly.

<snip>

Among black Protestant voters, about six-in-ten (62%) think Clinton will be a “good” or a “great” president, while 36% say this about Sanders.

<snip>

http://www.pewforum.org/2016/01/27/faith-and-the-2016-campaign/

But Bernie is still a big factor. His influence on the Democratic Party isn't going away. He now has a lot of clout.

87 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie Sanders and the African American vote. (Original Post) cali Feb 2016 OP
There are reasons why African Americans are not supporting Sanders Gothmog Feb 2016 #1
Bernie does believe that Obama has been a good President and greatly improved things since the Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #7
And yet Sanders is using Prof. West as one of his main surrogates Gothmog Feb 2016 #12
Bernie was using Cornell West before this article was printed. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #22
If there was a firewall, it's crumbling Oilwellian Feb 2016 #38
Cornel West is the new Jeremiah Wright noiretextatique Feb 2016 #30
Good luck in having Prof. West appeal to African American voters for Sanders Gothmog Feb 2016 #39
Me too. bravenak Feb 2016 #55
Amen!! uponit7771 Feb 2016 #77
Bernie is only trying to correct his missteps about Obama R B Garr Feb 2016 #67
Yes, I dislike talking about demographics so much. cali Feb 2016 #8
That's a good analysis. el_bryanto Feb 2016 #13
The difference is clear on digital / civil liberties. Of course, that's how Obama campaigned... JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #15
Simplistic, at best. Eom noiretextatique Feb 2016 #26
"Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama" Jarqui Feb 2016 #36
I found these comments from Barney Frank to be appropriate Gothmog Feb 2016 #40
I do not believe this to be true: Jarqui Feb 2016 #41
That is not the type of endorsement that will convince Obama supporters to support Sanders Gothmog Feb 2016 #45
I am as excited to vote for Bernie as I was to vote for Obama twice. artislife Feb 2016 #49
I didn't say it was Jarqui Feb 2016 #69
On this quote from your post Jarqui Feb 2016 #43
I like Sanders and support many of his positions but I do not think that he is viable Gothmog Feb 2016 #46
+1 uponit7771 Feb 2016 #80
Well it's their loss then Armstead Feb 2016 #44
I like you, but you aren't helping. JRLeft Feb 2016 #59
Just frustrated by this whole subject Armstead Feb 2016 #60
You have to understand the black vote will more than likely to be generational. JRLeft Feb 2016 #61
Msybe...I'm just tired of all this demographic Balkanization Armstead Feb 2016 #62
Black people are individuals, you can see it in people like myself. JRLeft Feb 2016 #63
Ex-NAACP Head Ben Jealous: Sanders is Most Consistent Candidate Tackling Racism, Militarism & Greed Electric Monk Feb 2016 #48
And yet the Congressional Black Caucus endorsed Hillary Clinton Gothmog Feb 2016 #54
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #64
Ellison confirms CBC PAC endorsed candidate without CBC membership input Electric Monk Feb 2016 #73
Why do you never address all the horrible things Hillary said about Obama? nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #68
Because she served as his Secretary of State for four years Gothmog Feb 2016 #71
Keep your enemies close. Appearances can be deceiving. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #72
President Obama selected Hillary Clinton to be Sec. of State Gothmog Feb 2016 #86
If obama believed her qualified SwampG8r Feb 2016 #87
+1 uponit7771 Feb 2016 #78
Your link isn't working. n/t farleftlib Feb 2016 #2
When I click on your link it says "page not found." Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #3
Thanks. Fixed- I think cali Feb 2016 #17
A couple of my black colleagues believe that the Clintons enjoy a lot of KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #4
They may be mirroring the same general generational split as other groups. nt artislife Feb 2016 #50
On the other hand, I think African Americans are very good at ladjf Feb 2016 #5
I seriously doubt they're better at that than any other demographic cali Feb 2016 #6
This is a case of differing opinions, certainly not science based. ladjf Feb 2016 #9
Absolutely I hope that you're right and I'm wrong and cali Feb 2016 #14
Interesting, thank you. Van Jones on CNN also felt the idea that Sanders would not do well Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #32
AA voters won't forget what Hillary did in 2008 with her vile race-baiting campaign gyroscope Feb 2016 #10
Obama didnt take it personally neither am I uponit7771 Feb 2016 #81
I respect you tazkcmo Feb 2016 #11
I must admit to having hives reading some of the replies to this OP artislife Feb 2016 #53
I am an African-American male, and I will be voting for Bernie Sanders. Renaissance Man Feb 2016 #16
Thanks. Do you think I'm off base with assuming cali Feb 2016 #19
You're overstating it gyroscope Feb 2016 #24
I do think you are off base with assuming that religion is a factor. Renaissance Man Feb 2016 #25
Frankly, I am not sure it is religion noiretextatique Feb 2016 #34
Likewise, except female noiretextatique Feb 2016 #28
I wasn't pleased to hear Cornel West was on board in a public way either. If his goal Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #37
Who got arrested for protesting for equal rights at U of Chicago? NightWatcher Feb 2016 #18
Younger black people are secular in our beliefs. 38 and under black JRLeft Feb 2016 #20
Thanks. I wondered about that. cali Feb 2016 #21
Religion is on the decline in every demographic. JRLeft Feb 2016 #23
So are many older Black people noiretextatique Feb 2016 #29
I am not a believer at all bravenak Feb 2016 #57
"Yes, I will vote for Senator Sanders" - Ta-Nehisi Coates Laughing Mirror Feb 2016 #27
He all but said that in several of his last pieces, including the one that was called a hatchet job Recursion Feb 2016 #47
When I saw him on French TV last week, Laughing Mirror Feb 2016 #65
He still hasn't endorsed (and won't), and said that explicitly Recursion Feb 2016 #66
Here's the exchange on DemocracyNow Laughing Mirror Feb 2016 #74
I'm probably voting for Sanders. I don't urge others to. Recursion Feb 2016 #75
"urging"? Laughing Mirror Feb 2016 #76
For me, since I have essentially zero influence, there's no real difference Recursion Feb 2016 #79
Schweitzer endorsed O'Malley because he couldn't actually vote for him, at the time Laughing Mirror Feb 2016 #84
I think what matters is 'What are you going to do for them now?' Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #31
He has a long way to go and not enough time, but his authenticity will help him BeyondGeography Feb 2016 #33
Maybe the African-American working class disagrees Depaysement Feb 2016 #35
If Bernie doesn't win, he won't have influence but they'll use him to try to paint the Democratic Skwmom Feb 2016 #42
I think that's clearly wrong. He will have more influence than any other senator cali Feb 2016 #70
Anthony Weiner is Popular among Black Voters JI7 Feb 2016 #51
You can answer to "God" when the time comes. Cassiopeia Feb 2016 #52
Bernie will do just fine with African American voters ... ThePhilosopher04 Feb 2016 #56
You could spout this "analysis" or you could just read the THOUSAND AND TWELVE articles that have Number23 Feb 2016 #58
+1 lovemydog Feb 2016 #83
Wait. ....you want people to read what actual Black people have to say? GTFO! nt msanthrope Feb 2016 #85
Enough AA voters see the chess mentality and the bigger picture, Who is better for 99% of us and who orpupilofnature57 Feb 2016 #82

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
1. There are reasons why African Americans are not supporting Sanders
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:36 AM
Feb 2016

There are good reasons why the demographics are not working for Sanders and why many voters including some African American voters are not supporting Sanders. Demographics are important in that this explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders.

I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama and that dislike affects the amount of support that Sanders is getting from certain demographic groups.

Uncle Joe

(58,112 posts)
7. Bernie does believe that Obama has been a good President and greatly improved things since the
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:47 AM
Feb 2016

days of George W.Bush, he gave the President credit again for the ACA last night in his victory speech, he has also given Obama credit for improving the overall economy but Bernie believes we need to go further.

Bernie's primary beef is with our dysfunctional economic, income disparity and campaign finance system which if it hasn't corrupted the government has certainly compromised it.

It's the system which has been warped by the overwhelming economic power of Wall Street, causing the government to relegate the peoples' best interests to those narrow concerns of the oligarchs and mega-conglomerates.





Uncle Joe

(58,112 posts)
22. Bernie was using Cornell West before this article was printed.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:17 AM
Feb 2016




King: The idea of an African-American firewall for Hillary Clinton is deeply insulting

"African-Americans are a firewall for Hillary Clinton. When it comes to South Carolina in a few weeks, or the primaries in the deep South, or cities with large urban centers, African-Americans are going to come out in huge numbers for her."

I fundamentally reject this notion and find it insulting on its face.

This idea of an African-American firewall for Hillary Clinton is rooted in the ridiculous idea that Bill Clinton was the nation's first black President. That would make Hillary Clinton the nation's first black First Lady. Of course, that's dumb and it sounds incredibly dumb in 2016 after seven years of Barack and Michelle Obama in the White House, but for most of the 1990s, it was spoken of with a degree of seriousness.


BERNIE SANDERS TO GET FORMER NAACP CHIEF JEALOUS' SUPPORT

(snip)

All of that, though, was before Michelle Alexander, a law professor at Ohio State University, wrote “The New Jim Crow” — which may be the most widely discussed book in the Black Lives Matter movement and in circles of anyone who cares about human rights and mass incarceration.

In it, in painstaking detail, Alexander shows how President Bill Clinton, with the expressed support of Hillary Clinton, who publicly called young black children "super-predators," ushered in a new era of mass incarceration in communities of color. While it had roots in the 1970s and 1980s, Bill Clinton doubled down in the most destructive ways imaginable.


(snip)

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2521955.1454709445!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/2016-sundance-film-festival-complete-unknown-premiere.jpg
Actor Danny Glover endorsed Bernie Sanders Thursday.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-african-american-firewall-clinton-insulting-article-1.2521962

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
38. If there was a firewall, it's crumbling
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:05 PM
Feb 2016

This article states over half of SC Dems have yet to commit to a candidate. This leaves a lot of room for Bernie to make inroads.

S. Carolina: First AA Woman Nominated for Congress Endorses Bernie

Dr. Gloria Tinubu

Dr. Gloria Tinubu, the first African-American woman in the state to win the Democratic nomination for Congress, believes that “Sanders is in the tradition of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who lead our parents and grandparents through one of the most challenging times in our nation’s history. Like President Roosevelt, Bernie is fighting to protect our democratic way of life and our four freedoms: freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from want, and freedom from fear.”

http://www.theminorityeye.com/1000-s...for-president/



More at:
http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?3928-S-Carolina-First-AA-Woman-Nominated-for-Congress-in-SC-amp-1-000-Women-Endorse-Bernie#post22245




noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
30. Cornel West is the new Jeremiah Wright
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:35 AM
Feb 2016

And like Wright, the hoopla about West is more a problem to Clinton supporters than to Black Sanders supporters.

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
39. Good luck in having Prof. West appeal to African American voters for Sanders
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:10 PM
Feb 2016

I hope that Sanders takes Prof. West to every meeting in South Carolina.

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
67. Bernie is only trying to correct his missteps about Obama
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:37 AM
Feb 2016

because he saw how it was backfiring on him going forward. He has no problem throwing Obama under the bus to get applause from his supporters. People see through his phoniness. Quite the weathervane.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
13. That's a good analysis.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:52 AM
Feb 2016

I must admit I didn't see much substantial difference between Obama and Clinton in 2008; I supported Obama more because of his stance on some issues but I frankly expected him to govern as he has governed. That said, I think the issue with Obama is that he seemed to believe that he could work with the Republicans and as it turned out the House in particular was dedicated to stopping everything he attempted to do. It will be the same for Sanders and Clinton if they get elected. I don't know what either of them can do in the face of that obstructionism, but I think shooting higher rather than trying to do compromise measures would serve us better.

Bryant

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
15. The difference is clear on digital / civil liberties. Of course, that's how Obama campaigned...
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:57 AM
Feb 2016

...not how he governed.

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
36. "Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama"
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:00 PM
Feb 2016

that sure isn't the case with me.

I think he's wonderful and been the best president of my life. I'm lily white and my memories go back to Kennedy.

One key problem Sanders seems to have is that he and his policies are not as well known - and not just by African Americans.

In terms of Civil Rights for African Americans, he's fought for those, including getting arrested, since the 60s. So this support is not a sudden flip-flop to get African American votes.

There is nothing in his record like the Clinton Welfare reform (1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act) and Clinton Crime reform (1994 Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act - three strikes law that caused more lengthy incarceration disproportionately for minorities) that hurt African Americans. Hillary supported both bills.

He's been more outspoken than Hillary against the killings of African Americans executed by police. He's not pandering to get votes. He's been against this stuff for years
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Crime.htm

Hillary's PAC was accepting donations from CEOs and lobbyists from private prisons until she got called out for it. Bernie's against private prisons and more outspoken in that he'd rather spend money on educating African Americans than incarcerating them.

Bernie wants single payer Medicare for All where every African American would get healthcare coverage as a right. Hillary wants to patch Obamacare but doesn't have the same fervent commitment to healthcare for all because it doesn't address things like deductibles.

Bernie wants minimum wage to be $15/hr. Hillary $12/hr.

Bernie wants college tuition free. Hillary wants debt-free tuition.

Bernie has jobs creation programs for rebuilding the infrastructure and shifting away from fossil fuel - that will help employ more people including African Americans.

You should know by now, he's not going to do the bidding of corporations where Hillary, at the very least, is a question mark with Wall Street.

If you look at Bernie's history, there isn't a lot new here. He's been fighting for this stuff since the 60s. He's not pandering to get African American votes. He's fighting for it because he's always believed in it.

Those policies are off the top of my head and there's probably more. But I think they're helpful policies to give minorities and African Americans a fairer shake. At the very least, I think African Americans should be aware of their choice and the above. Then let democracy decide.

I have a feeling if African Americans get informed and presented with such a choice, a heck of a lot more of them would support Bernie than are now.

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
40. I found these comments from Barney Frank to be appropriate
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 12:47 AM
Feb 2016

I found these observations from Barney Frank to be very appropriate http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/three-reasons-why-things-will-get-harder-for-bernie-sanders-213591

And his condemnation falls equally on Democrats and Republicans alike. When he leads his audience in the chant that Wall Street regulates Congress, he draws no distinction between Democrats who enacted crucial financial regulations like the Volcker rule, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and the regulation of derivatives and the Republicans who fought all three and are now working to undermine them.

Nor does President Barack Obama escape. While he does not explicitly attack the president, nowhere in Sanders’ campaign rhetoric is there any positive assessment of his record. His listeners do not hear that the Affordable Care Act was a great advance and must be protected as he and others try to go beyond it. They don’t hear that getting the top tax rate back up to where it was before Bush lowered it meant a real increase in tax fairness.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/three-reasons-why-things-will-get-harder-for-bernie-sanders-213591#ixzz3zcHVQSYQ

This hits at one of the main reasons why Sanders is not doing well with African American and other democratic voters There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democrats are not supporting Sanders.

Franks' article also explains why Sanders is not appealing to African Americans and other groups of democratic voters. I believe that President Obama's achievements are meaningful and should not be dismissed

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
41. I do not believe this to be true:
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 01:28 AM
Feb 2016
"Nor does President Barack Obama escape. While he does not explicitly attack the president, nowhere in Sanders’ campaign rhetoric is there any positive assessment of his record."


http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-11-13/bernie-sanders-and-barack-obama-it-s-complicated
“We are in much better shape now, but Democrats can’t go around saying, ‘Well, gee, everything is good,'” Sanders said. “I personally believe that given the crisis we face right now with the power structure in America—we have corporate America, the Koch brothers, and the corporate media—there is so much power on top that we need a political revolution.” That, he said, was “not really” the Obama administration's goal.
...
“The idea that I’ve worked against Barack Obama is categorically false,” Sanders said Sunday on ABC's This Week. “But Barack Obama is a friend of mine; I think he’s been a very strong president and has taken this country extraordinarily difficult moment in history in a very positive way.”


Bernie Sanders on the Obama Presidency
https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/900411703382288/

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
45. That is not the type of endorsement that will convince Obama supporters to support Sanders
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 01:56 AM
Feb 2016

Sanders has not been kind to President Obama in other comments and one of Sanders major surrogates is Prof. West which does not help your case

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
49. I am as excited to vote for Bernie as I was to vote for Obama twice.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 02:11 AM
Feb 2016

This meme that Obama supporters go to h naturally is false in my experience.

I have my Hope poster on my wall. I am going to miss having this amazing family at the White House. I love them all from Grandma down to Sasha!

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
69. I didn't say it was
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:54 AM
Feb 2016

I was just proving that this claim by Frank is grotesquely false:
"nowhere in Sanders’ campaign rhetoric is there any positive assessment of his record"

Once again, the Clinton campaign is dishonestly representing Sanders, trying to make more out of his criticism than there ever was.

Here's a list of Obama's accomplishments that you and I are proud of him for
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/

Obama's approval is about 50/50. Direction of the country is about 15% right /75% wrong direction.

12 pages on Politifact of Obama promises kept
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/

6 pages on Politifact of Obama promises broken
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/

9 pages remain of 27 on Politifact of outstanding Obama promises
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/browse/?page=2

Not a perfect record. In the political climate Obama was in, I think he did really well. I do not see failing to close Guantanamo, for example, as his fault on a broken promise. The GOP blocked him.

Obama did say that electing him would lead to addressing a "broken Washington" and "we" came up short big time. Obama asked for out help and we fell short. WE only gave him 2 years of a mandate. But Obama is a significant part of that "we" He bears some responsibility in that he couldn't sell the country on extending his mandate. And he would be the first to admit it.

Sanders feels there is a lot more to get done. I find that hard to argue against.

Like any two people, they most often do not see eye to eye on every issue. Such is the case with Obama and Sanders. I do not think that is a big crime.

Obamacare is saving about 15-20,000 lives per year. That's wonderful. But tweaking Obamacare is a dead end. The United States has to get healthcare costs under control if it wants to continue to compete in the world market in the years ahead. Paying $10,000 per capita for healthcare won't allow Americans to compete for jobs with other counties paying half that. Obamacare will not get the United States half way there on healthcare costs. As much as I love Obama, I agree with Sanders on this one. It's going to be brutal to get but as a country, it has to happen or it's going to be brutal for working class Americans for decades to come because they won't be able to compete for jobs on the world job market nearly as well and that will have some trickle up effect on American companies ability to compete.

What has to happen is Americans deliver someone a mandate in Washington to get more stuff done. In 2008, they barely did for 2 years for Obama (Senate has 60 Dem senators for less than 2 years). Americans have to do it again. Hillary will NEVER be popular enough to get that big of a mandate. She has a ceiling because a lot of people don't like her or trust her. Bernie might be able to get that kind of a mandate. Time will tell.

Obama promised change. He delivered as much change as he could. But more change is needed. Big change. Not just tweaking Obama's existing policies. Sanders probably has less of a chance of pulling it off than another four years of Obama might but Hillary, due to her ceiling of deception and mistrust, has close to zero chance. Hillary might win an election but she's not the sort of leader folks will massively get behind. Sanders might not be either but at least he has some sort of a chance.

It's not that insulting to Obama. Hillary may be the better curator of Obama's legacy. But the people reacting to Sanders want more change. The hell with legacy. It's widespread. It's undeniable that Obama did not deliver enough change. The people want more. That's what is going on with Trump and Sanders. The status quo is getting fired by the people. And I don't blame them.

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
43. On this quote from your post
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 01:44 AM
Feb 2016
It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democrats are not supporting Sanders.


I like Bernie.

And I think the world of Barack Obama. If we could have 8 more years of Obama and give him the mandate he asked for: the House and 60+ seat majority in the Senate with fewer conservative Democratic senators, I'd take that in a heartbeat and feel very confident that I made the right decision.

I don't think Hillary could do that if she wanted to. Too many don't like her enough to give her the majority needed. The odds are against Bernie pulling this off. But I'm all for giving him a shot.

I do not think Obama is corrupt. Bernie's never suggested anything of the sort. But I think Washington is corrupt roughly as Bernie suggests and guilty of compromising a great president in Obama. Obama's rules about lobbyists at the start of his 1st term back Bernie up some. These folks need to go. I do not think Hillary is not innocent. She is influenced by money. I don't think she's terribly corrupt. When you collect nearly $4 billion since leaving the White House as the Clintons have, it's hard to believe it's all squeaky clean.

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
46. I like Sanders and support many of his positions but I do not think that he is viable
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 01:58 AM
Feb 2016

I am do not like the positions that Sanders has taken with respect to President Obama's accomplishments and legacy and I do not believe that Sanders is viable in the general election.

I am not willing to trust the control of the SCOTUS to a candidate who is depending on some sort of revolution that is not going to happen.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
44. Well it's their loss then
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 01:53 AM
Feb 2016

President Obama is an AA. Bernie has occasionally diosagreed on certain with him.

Therefore he is not worthy of their vote.

Great. I hope they remember that when they're paying health insurance costs up the wazoo, or can't go to college because of the cost, or get their home repossessed in the next Big Crash. Or their son gets thrown in jail for smoking a reefer.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
62. Msybe...I'm just tired of all this demographic Balkanization
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 03:56 AM
Feb 2016

I'd just prefer to think of people as individuals.

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
54. And yet the Congressional Black Caucus endorsed Hillary Clinton
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 02:26 AM
Feb 2016

Do you really want to compare the number of endorsements?

Response to Gothmog (Reply #54)

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
71. Because she served as his Secretary of State for four years
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:27 AM
Feb 2016

President Obama trusted her to lead his foreign policy efforts and that is good enough for most people. In addition, it appears that President Obama is endorsing or supporting her campaign

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
72. Keep your enemies close. Appearances can be deceiving.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:38 AM
Feb 2016

You are forgiving her truly horrendous remarks for rather silly reasons.

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
86. President Obama selected Hillary Clinton to be Sec. of State
Wed Feb 17, 2016, 06:15 AM
Feb 2016

Why don't you ask President Obama which candidate he prefers

SwampG8r

(10,287 posts)
87. If obama believed her qualified
Wed Feb 17, 2016, 10:00 AM
Feb 2016

Why didnt he make her vp?
It would seem the only person with obamas unspoken as yet e endorsement is biden.
In presidential succession she was behind bohner.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
4. A couple of my black colleagues believe that the Clintons enjoy a lot of
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:38 AM
Feb 2016

residual affection in the black communit, but that affection is concentrated mostly among older black Americans. The younger generation (35 and younger) may not be so easily a lock for Secretary Clinton. (Since her husband's draconian War on Drugs policies put so many of them in prison anyway, that may wash out.) Both of my black colleagues are in their late 20s - mid 30s and both lean strongly pro-Sanders. Alas, we are in California where experience suggests we shall have little or no say in the eventual nominee.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
5. On the other hand, I think African Americans are very good at
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:40 AM
Feb 2016

differentiating between honest and dishonest behavior. Given the opportunity to get to know Bernie, they will love him and see that he can and will work on their behalf.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
9. This is a case of differing opinions, certainly not science based.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:48 AM
Feb 2016

However, I'm a senior citizen who has lived in the South my entire life. My opinion has been based on my personal observations of many, many black people I have known.

I don't like to disagree with your posts as they are consistently right on the money , in my opinion. In this case, let's hope than I'm right and that the African Americans will be drawn to Bernie with his message of political reform.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
14. Absolutely I hope that you're right and I'm wrong and
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:52 AM
Feb 2016

You surely no more about the south than this unrepentant Yankee

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
32. Interesting, thank you. Van Jones on CNN also felt the idea that Sanders would not do well
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:36 AM
Feb 2016

in SC to be absurd. He expressed that Bernie's differences with Obama policy
are not about Obama, per sey. He also reminded another commentator that
young black Americans do not have the connections to the Clinton people
as some older people do.

 

gyroscope

(1,443 posts)
10. AA voters won't forget what Hillary did in 2008 with her vile race-baiting campaign
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:48 AM
Feb 2016

Its been 8 years but once their collective memory starts coming back about that awful episode, the exodus from Camp Clinton will begin en masse.

tazkcmo

(7,286 posts)
11. I respect you
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:48 AM
Feb 2016

I have no knowledge of what AA's think, value or "are comfortable with" in respect to this election. I can only draw on my experiences with AA friends, co-workers and acquaintances in my life and I draw this conclusion: The AA community in the US is the most oppressed, mistreated and targeted population in this country and I as a fellow citizen that cares about their well being (because they're my friends, co-workers and fellow Americans) can only respect their unique point of view and support them in their struggle for equality and respect in this country no matter who they vote for.

I have my opinions on who would be most beneficial to them (and the rest of us) but I'm not going assume they are a monolithic block of voters that march in lock step, use sweeping generalities to characterize them as a group or dismiss they're human ability to observe, evaluate and decide.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
53. I must admit to having hives reading some of the replies to this OP
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 02:24 AM
Feb 2016

I agree with your words, tazkcmo.

Some of the other words in this feed are sounding a little paternalistic as if the AA community isn't a part of this site, reading these OPs, having thoughts of their own.

I love this part especially


..or dismiss they're human ability to observe, evaluate and decide.


I have noted the lack of OPs on the Latino population and why we (Latina here) are not fully embracing Bernie as we "should".

And I say this as a Bernie supporter. I think we need to make the case for Bernie without suggesting certain groups get with the program. We have been very successful at showing why younger women are for Bernie and we use their words to convey their disappointment with the 3 incidents by surrogates against younger women. We change the dialogue when speaking about the African American community. I hope everyone can see the nuance, well I think it is obvious...but..., and ask how you can not single out a group differently.

Renaissance Man

(669 posts)
16. I am an African-American male, and I will be voting for Bernie Sanders.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:58 AM
Feb 2016

Hillary's 2008 behavior during the primaries and the legacy of the Clinton family as it relates to black people are two things that are completely unforgivable to me. Hence, my support of Bernie Sanders.

I think that if his campaign would do more work in voter outreach (and if Bernie were more forceful in dealing with Hillary's support of Bill Clinton's policies on race, crime, welfare, and taxes in the 90's), he could make some serious inroads. He also should drop Cornel West as a surrogate. The optics are horrible (especially with the degree of criticism that Cornel West has leveled on the President).

He does those two things, and he could make inroads.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
19. Thanks. Do you think I'm off base with assuming
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:06 AM
Feb 2016

that religion is a factor that works for Hillary and against Bernie?

I agree with you about West who I long admired as one of this country's all too few prominent public intellectuals, but he offended and lost me with some of his comments about President Obama.

 

gyroscope

(1,443 posts)
24. You're overstating it
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:18 AM
Feb 2016

It would be laughable to watch the Clintons pandering to evangelicals and black Christian vote.
The Clintons are not known as religious types, and AAs would not buy it.

Obama was good at pandering to Christians, the Clintons are not.

Renaissance Man

(669 posts)
25. I do think you are off base with assuming that religion is a factor.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:19 AM
Feb 2016

I am the son of a reverend of a Southern Baptist church. Bernie's religious affiliation is not something that is going to work against him with black voters. Black voters tend to vote their pockets more than anything else. His campaign would be smart in making the rounds at Mother Emmanuel and other historic black churches in the South, and explaining how his policies would positively impact black voters.

Free college tuition, banning private prisons, his policies on racial justice (and drawing a stark contrast with the Clinton campaign on Hillary's support of Bill's policies on race, crime, welfare, and taxes in the 90's) are all angles that his campaign can take to win black voters. It's just going to take some effort. I was sold on him the moment he put his hat into the race.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
34. Frankly, I am not sure it is religion
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:39 AM
Feb 2016

I would call it a kind of social conservatism, that has some roots in religion. Of course there are die-hard black religionists, but there is a streak of social conservatism among some AA's that transcends religion on issues, e.g., gay marriage and immigration, for example.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
28. Likewise, except female
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:27 AM
Feb 2016

I became a green party member because of Clinton 1. I think Cornel West is useful, in spite of all the talk about his negatives. Not every black person is as enamored with Obama as some like to claim.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
37. I wasn't pleased to hear Cornel West was on board in a public way either. If his goal
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:02 PM
Feb 2016

was to have an open conversation on disagreements with Obama's policies then that is what
the focus should have been. Instead he marked it with inflammatory speech that was so
offensive people stop listening...and what were the results? You're not effective on what
you say your objectives are..it was a terrible turn of events, I thought.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
18. Who got arrested for protesting for equal rights at U of Chicago?
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:02 AM
Feb 2016

But Hillary calls herself a Protestant, ok.

 

JRLeft

(7,010 posts)
20. Younger black people are secular in our beliefs. 38 and under black
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:09 AM
Feb 2016

people are attending church less every year.

Laughing Mirror

(4,185 posts)
27. "Yes, I will vote for Senator Sanders" - Ta-Nehisi Coates
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:25 AM
Feb 2016

Just heard him make this announcement on DemocracyNow. He was on discussing reparations.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
47. He all but said that in several of his last pieces, including the one that was called a hatchet job
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 02:05 AM
Feb 2016

on Sanders.

Laughing Mirror

(4,185 posts)
65. When I saw him on French TV last week,
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:26 AM
Feb 2016

he would not say who he would endorse. On Democracy Now is the first time I heard him say this.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
66. He still hasn't endorsed (and won't), and said that explicitly
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:36 AM
Feb 2016

He doesn't endorse, but is voting for Sanders.

Laughing Mirror

(4,185 posts)
74. Here's the exchange on DemocracyNow
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:07 AM
Feb 2016
TA-NEHISI COATES: One can say Senator Sanders should have more explicit antiracist policy within his racial justice platform, not just more general stuff, and still cast a vote for Senator Sanders and still feel that Senator Sanders is the best option that we have in the race. But just because that’s who you’re going to vote for doesn’t mean you then have to agree with everything they say.

AMY GOODMAN: Will you be voting for Senator Sanders?

TA-NEHISI COATES: I will be voting for Senator Sanders. I have tried to avoid this question, but, yes, I will be voting for Senator Sanders. I try to avoid that, because I want to write as a journalist—do you know what I mean?—and separate that from my role as, I don’t know, a private citizen. But I don’t think much is accomplished by ducking the question. Yes, I will vote for Senator Sanders. My son influenced me.


What is the difference between supporting a candidate, endorsing a candidate, voting for a candidate? Not sure I see a sharp distinction.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
75. I'm probably voting for Sanders. I don't urge others to.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:08 AM
Feb 2016

That's a vote, not an endorsement. An endorsement is urging others to vote for the candidate.

Laughing Mirror

(4,185 posts)
76. "urging"?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:12 AM
Feb 2016

Really? That's a new definition of "endorsement" to me.

Hunh ... learn something new everyday.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
79. For me, since I have essentially zero influence, there's no real difference
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:16 AM
Feb 2016

For someone like Coates, who has non-zero influence, there is.

This time last year, for instance, I liked Schweitzer. He was who I wanted to support for President. He dropped out during the exploratory phase, and endorsed O'Malley. That is, he said he thought everyone who supported him should support O'Malley instead, and he was willing to stake his reputation behind that. That was a huge factor in getting me to look at O'Malley at all.

Laughing Mirror

(4,185 posts)
84. Schweitzer endorsed O'Malley because he couldn't actually vote for him, at the time
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:44 AM
Feb 2016

Okay, I get it. Thanks for explanation.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
31. I think what matters is 'What are you going to do for them now?'
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:35 AM
Feb 2016

Bernie might not have been the world's best champion of black America in the past, but he didn't work against them either.

How to win black voters now? Do things for them now. Pledge to do more things specifically to help them once in office. And BE specific. Tell them exactly some of the things he'll do, and CAN do, by himself as President, without dragging in a Republican Congress. Let them know that he WILL be better for them once in office than Clinton will be.

BeyondGeography

(39,284 posts)
33. He has a long way to go and not enough time, but his authenticity will help him
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:37 AM
Feb 2016

He doesn't come across as another panderer looking for black votes. CNN had a focus group in SC last night and an older black man raised his hand and said he was for Bernie after hearing his speech. When asked why, he said because Bernie raised the issue of mass incarceration of black males and, in so many words, he could tell from the way Sanders said it that it was heartfelt. The man is sincere in a way that you rarely see in politics and he'll get a hearing. It will be very interesting to see how he does in SC.

Depaysement

(1,835 posts)
35. Maybe the African-American working class disagrees
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:49 AM
Feb 2016

Maybe the genuine fight for $15 is better than the halfhearted hope for $12. Maybe fighting for a better wage means more than fighting a war in a faraway land. Maybe speaking truth to power in an honest voice resonates more than being all things to all people.

I guess we'll see soon enough.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
42. If Bernie doesn't win, he won't have influence but they'll use him to try to paint the Democratic
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 01:32 AM
Feb 2016


Party as something it is not (and has not been for a long time).



Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
52. You can answer to "God" when the time comes.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 02:19 AM
Feb 2016

In the mean time you gotta keep the lights on, the heat running, and food in fridge.

 

ThePhilosopher04

(1,732 posts)
56. Bernie will do just fine with African American voters ...
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 02:46 AM
Feb 2016

and will definitely close the gap with Ole Hill, but he'll also make up enough ground with disaffected, rural, blue collar whites to offset the difference. I've lived in the south all my life and I'm seeing it every day. I don't think the media and general public get what is happening. If New Hampshire didn't sound the alarm bells, just wait a couple of more weeks. The Clinton campaign knows full well what is about to take place, that is why they are scared shitless and about to go nuclear.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
58. You could spout this "analysis" or you could just read the THOUSAND AND TWELVE articles that have
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 03:01 AM
Feb 2016

been written about why Sanders has so little support from minority communities. Hint: It ain't all about religion.

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
82. Enough AA voters see the chess mentality and the bigger picture, Who is better for 99% of us and who
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:25 AM
Feb 2016

will benefit the Most from who's policies . History should show Bernie has helped all working people, AA will do much better in a Democracy than an Oligarchy which Hillary would be a Huge part of facilitating, look at history .

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