2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders and the African American vote.
This is ANALYSIS, not advocacy, and I'm not trying to dampen enthusiasm for Bernie, just expressing what I see.
Bernie Sanders is not a natural fit with the AA electorate. His past civil rights activism is a minor factor if it is a factor at all. AA voters are more conservative and religious than white voters. Bernie is a pretty secular Jew. Hillary is a religious Protestant, like the vast majority of AA voters. Religious voters are less likely to vote for someone widely considered to be secular. It's harder to know if his being Jewish is a factor that works against him. AA voters like the Clintons. They feel comfortable with the Clintons. And I put that in the plural because Bill is a big asset here. Bernie is an outsider to AA voters. I don't see that changing significantly.
<snip>
Among black Protestant voters, about six-in-ten (62%) think Clinton will be a good or a great president, while 36% say this about Sanders.
<snip>
http://www.pewforum.org/2016/01/27/faith-and-the-2016-campaign/
But Bernie is still a big factor. His influence on the Democratic Party isn't going away. He now has a lot of clout.
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)There are good reasons why the demographics are not working for Sanders and why many voters including some African American voters are not supporting Sanders. Demographics are important in that this explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics
On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only hed fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.
They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.
On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.
It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.
Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders.
I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama and that dislike affects the amount of support that Sanders is getting from certain demographic groups.
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)days of George W.Bush, he gave the President credit again for the ACA last night in his victory speech, he has also given Obama credit for improving the overall economy but Bernie believes we need to go further.
Bernie's primary beef is with our dysfunctional economic, income disparity and campaign finance system which if it hasn't corrupted the government has certainly compromised it.
It's the system which has been warped by the overwhelming economic power of Wall Street, causing the government to relegate the peoples' best interests to those narrow concerns of the oligarchs and mega-conglomerates.
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)Good luck with that
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)King: The idea of an African-American firewall for Hillary Clinton is deeply insulting
"African-Americans are a firewall for Hillary Clinton. When it comes to South Carolina in a few weeks, or the primaries in the deep South, or cities with large urban centers, African-Americans are going to come out in huge numbers for her."
I fundamentally reject this notion and find it insulting on its face.
This idea of an African-American firewall for Hillary Clinton is rooted in the ridiculous idea that Bill Clinton was the nation's first black President. That would make Hillary Clinton the nation's first black First Lady. Of course, that's dumb and it sounds incredibly dumb in 2016 after seven years of Barack and Michelle Obama in the White House, but for most of the 1990s, it was spoken of with a degree of seriousness.
BERNIE SANDERS TO GET FORMER NAACP CHIEF JEALOUS' SUPPORT
(snip)
All of that, though, was before Michelle Alexander, a law professor at Ohio State University, wrote The New Jim Crow which may be the most widely discussed book in the Black Lives Matter movement and in circles of anyone who cares about human rights and mass incarceration.
In it, in painstaking detail, Alexander shows how President Bill Clinton, with the expressed support of Hillary Clinton, who publicly called young black children "super-predators," ushered in a new era of mass incarceration in communities of color. While it had roots in the 1970s and 1980s, Bill Clinton doubled down in the most destructive ways imaginable.
(snip)
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2521955.1454709445!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/2016-sundance-film-festival-complete-unknown-premiere.jpg
Actor Danny Glover endorsed Bernie Sanders Thursday.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-african-american-firewall-clinton-insulting-article-1.2521962
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)This article states over half of SC Dems have yet to commit to a candidate. This leaves a lot of room for Bernie to make inroads.
Dr. Gloria Tinubu
Dr. Gloria Tinubu, the first African-American woman in the state to win the Democratic nomination for Congress, believes that Sanders is in the tradition of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who lead our parents and grandparents through one of the most challenging times in our nations history. Like President Roosevelt, Bernie is fighting to protect our democratic way of life and our four freedoms: freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from want, and freedom from fear.
http://www.theminorityeye.com/1000-s...for-president/
More at:
http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?3928-S-Carolina-First-AA-Woman-Nominated-for-Congress-in-SC-amp-1-000-Women-Endorse-Bernie#post22245
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)And like Wright, the hoopla about West is more a problem to Clinton supporters than to Black Sanders supporters.
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)I hope that Sanders takes Prof. West to every meeting in South Carolina.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He should let West write his speeches
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)R B Garr
(16,920 posts)because he saw how it was backfiring on him going forward. He has no problem throwing Obama under the bus to get applause from his supporters. People see through his phoniness. Quite the weathervane.
cali
(114,904 posts)Obviously not.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I must admit I didn't see much substantial difference between Obama and Clinton in 2008; I supported Obama more because of his stance on some issues but I frankly expected him to govern as he has governed. That said, I think the issue with Obama is that he seemed to believe that he could work with the Republicans and as it turned out the House in particular was dedicated to stopping everything he attempted to do. It will be the same for Sanders and Clinton if they get elected. I don't know what either of them can do in the face of that obstructionism, but I think shooting higher rather than trying to do compromise measures would serve us better.
Bryant
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)...not how he governed.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Jarqui
(10,110 posts)that sure isn't the case with me.
I think he's wonderful and been the best president of my life. I'm lily white and my memories go back to Kennedy.
One key problem Sanders seems to have is that he and his policies are not as well known - and not just by African Americans.
In terms of Civil Rights for African Americans, he's fought for those, including getting arrested, since the 60s. So this support is not a sudden flip-flop to get African American votes.
There is nothing in his record like the Clinton Welfare reform (1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act) and Clinton Crime reform (1994 Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act - three strikes law that caused more lengthy incarceration disproportionately for minorities) that hurt African Americans. Hillary supported both bills.
He's been more outspoken than Hillary against the killings of African Americans executed by police. He's not pandering to get votes. He's been against this stuff for years
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Crime.htm
Hillary's PAC was accepting donations from CEOs and lobbyists from private prisons until she got called out for it. Bernie's against private prisons and more outspoken in that he'd rather spend money on educating African Americans than incarcerating them.
Bernie wants single payer Medicare for All where every African American would get healthcare coverage as a right. Hillary wants to patch Obamacare but doesn't have the same fervent commitment to healthcare for all because it doesn't address things like deductibles.
Bernie wants minimum wage to be $15/hr. Hillary $12/hr.
Bernie wants college tuition free. Hillary wants debt-free tuition.
Bernie has jobs creation programs for rebuilding the infrastructure and shifting away from fossil fuel - that will help employ more people including African Americans.
You should know by now, he's not going to do the bidding of corporations where Hillary, at the very least, is a question mark with Wall Street.
If you look at Bernie's history, there isn't a lot new here. He's been fighting for this stuff since the 60s. He's not pandering to get African American votes. He's fighting for it because he's always believed in it.
Those policies are off the top of my head and there's probably more. But I think they're helpful policies to give minorities and African Americans a fairer shake. At the very least, I think African Americans should be aware of their choice and the above. Then let democracy decide.
I have a feeling if African Americans get informed and presented with such a choice, a heck of a lot more of them would support Bernie than are now.
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)I found these observations from Barney Frank to be very appropriate http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/three-reasons-why-things-will-get-harder-for-bernie-sanders-213591
Nor does President Barack Obama escape. While he does not explicitly attack the president, nowhere in Sanders campaign rhetoric is there any positive assessment of his record. His listeners do not hear that the Affordable Care Act was a great advance and must be protected as he and others try to go beyond it. They dont hear that getting the top tax rate back up to where it was before Bush lowered it meant a real increase in tax fairness.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/three-reasons-why-things-will-get-harder-for-bernie-sanders-213591#ixzz3zcHVQSYQ
This hits at one of the main reasons why Sanders is not doing well with African American and other democratic voters There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics
On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only hed fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.
They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.
On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.
It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.
Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democrats are not supporting Sanders.
Franks' article also explains why Sanders is not appealing to African Americans and other groups of democratic voters. I believe that President Obama's achievements are meaningful and should not be dismissed
Jarqui
(10,110 posts)"Nor does President Barack Obama escape. While he does not explicitly attack the president, nowhere in Sanders campaign rhetoric is there any positive assessment of his record."
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-11-13/bernie-sanders-and-barack-obama-it-s-complicated
We are in much better shape now, but Democrats cant go around saying, Well, gee, everything is good,' Sanders said. I personally believe that given the crisis we face right now with the power structure in Americawe have corporate America, the Koch brothers, and the corporate mediathere is so much power on top that we need a political revolution. That, he said, was not really the Obama administration's goal.
...
The idea that Ive worked against Barack Obama is categorically false, Sanders said Sunday on ABC's This Week. But Barack Obama is a friend of mine; I think hes been a very strong president and has taken this country extraordinarily difficult moment in history in a very positive way.
Bernie Sanders on the Obama Presidency
https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/900411703382288/
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)Sanders has not been kind to President Obama in other comments and one of Sanders major surrogates is Prof. West which does not help your case
artislife
(9,497 posts)This meme that Obama supporters go to h naturally is false in my experience.
I have my Hope poster on my wall. I am going to miss having this amazing family at the White House. I love them all from Grandma down to Sasha!
Jarqui
(10,110 posts)I was just proving that this claim by Frank is grotesquely false:
"nowhere in Sanders campaign rhetoric is there any positive assessment of his record"
Once again, the Clinton campaign is dishonestly representing Sanders, trying to make more out of his criticism than there ever was.
Here's a list of Obama's accomplishments that you and I are proud of him for
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/
Obama's approval is about 50/50. Direction of the country is about 15% right /75% wrong direction.
12 pages on Politifact of Obama promises kept
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/
6 pages on Politifact of Obama promises broken
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/
9 pages remain of 27 on Politifact of outstanding Obama promises
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/browse/?page=2
Not a perfect record. In the political climate Obama was in, I think he did really well. I do not see failing to close Guantanamo, for example, as his fault on a broken promise. The GOP blocked him.
Obama did say that electing him would lead to addressing a "broken Washington" and "we" came up short big time. Obama asked for out help and we fell short. WE only gave him 2 years of a mandate. But Obama is a significant part of that "we" He bears some responsibility in that he couldn't sell the country on extending his mandate. And he would be the first to admit it.
Sanders feels there is a lot more to get done. I find that hard to argue against.
Like any two people, they most often do not see eye to eye on every issue. Such is the case with Obama and Sanders. I do not think that is a big crime.
Obamacare is saving about 15-20,000 lives per year. That's wonderful. But tweaking Obamacare is a dead end. The United States has to get healthcare costs under control if it wants to continue to compete in the world market in the years ahead. Paying $10,000 per capita for healthcare won't allow Americans to compete for jobs with other counties paying half that. Obamacare will not get the United States half way there on healthcare costs. As much as I love Obama, I agree with Sanders on this one. It's going to be brutal to get but as a country, it has to happen or it's going to be brutal for working class Americans for decades to come because they won't be able to compete for jobs on the world job market nearly as well and that will have some trickle up effect on American companies ability to compete.
What has to happen is Americans deliver someone a mandate in Washington to get more stuff done. In 2008, they barely did for 2 years for Obama (Senate has 60 Dem senators for less than 2 years). Americans have to do it again. Hillary will NEVER be popular enough to get that big of a mandate. She has a ceiling because a lot of people don't like her or trust her. Bernie might be able to get that kind of a mandate. Time will tell.
Obama promised change. He delivered as much change as he could. But more change is needed. Big change. Not just tweaking Obama's existing policies. Sanders probably has less of a chance of pulling it off than another four years of Obama might but Hillary, due to her ceiling of deception and mistrust, has close to zero chance. Hillary might win an election but she's not the sort of leader folks will massively get behind. Sanders might not be either but at least he has some sort of a chance.
It's not that insulting to Obama. Hillary may be the better curator of Obama's legacy. But the people reacting to Sanders want more change. The hell with legacy. It's widespread. It's undeniable that Obama did not deliver enough change. The people want more. That's what is going on with Trump and Sanders. The status quo is getting fired by the people. And I don't blame them.
Jarqui
(10,110 posts)It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.
Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democrats are not supporting Sanders.
I like Bernie.
And I think the world of Barack Obama. If we could have 8 more years of Obama and give him the mandate he asked for: the House and 60+ seat majority in the Senate with fewer conservative Democratic senators, I'd take that in a heartbeat and feel very confident that I made the right decision.
I don't think Hillary could do that if she wanted to. Too many don't like her enough to give her the majority needed. The odds are against Bernie pulling this off. But I'm all for giving him a shot.
I do not think Obama is corrupt. Bernie's never suggested anything of the sort. But I think Washington is corrupt roughly as Bernie suggests and guilty of compromising a great president in Obama. Obama's rules about lobbyists at the start of his 1st term back Bernie up some. These folks need to go. I do not think Hillary is not innocent. She is influenced by money. I don't think she's terribly corrupt. When you collect nearly $4 billion since leaving the White House as the Clintons have, it's hard to believe it's all squeaky clean.
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)I am do not like the positions that Sanders has taken with respect to President Obama's accomplishments and legacy and I do not believe that Sanders is viable in the general election.
I am not willing to trust the control of the SCOTUS to a candidate who is depending on some sort of revolution that is not going to happen.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)President Obama is an AA. Bernie has occasionally diosagreed on certain with him.
Therefore he is not worthy of their vote.
Great. I hope they remember that when they're paying health insurance costs up the wazoo, or can't go to college because of the cost, or get their home repossessed in the next Big Crash. Or their son gets thrown in jail for smoking a reefer.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)I should keep my venting to myself...
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)I'd just prefer to think of people as individuals.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Gothmog
(143,999 posts)Do you really want to compare the number of endorsements?
Response to Gothmog (Reply #54)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Gothmog
(143,999 posts)President Obama trusted her to lead his foreign policy efforts and that is good enough for most people. In addition, it appears that President Obama is endorsing or supporting her campaign
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)You are forgiving her truly horrendous remarks for rather silly reasons.
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)Why don't you ask President Obama which candidate he prefers
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Why didnt he make her vp?
It would seem the only person with obamas unspoken as yet e endorsement is biden.
In presidential succession she was behind bohner.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)Thanks for the thread, cali.
cali
(114,904 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)residual affection in the black communit, but that affection is concentrated mostly among older black Americans. The younger generation (35 and younger) may not be so easily a lock for Secretary Clinton. (Since her husband's draconian War on Drugs policies put so many of them in prison anyway, that may wash out.) Both of my black colleagues are in their late 20s - mid 30s and both lean strongly pro-Sanders. Alas, we are in California where experience suggests we shall have little or no say in the eventual nominee.
artislife
(9,497 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)differentiating between honest and dishonest behavior. Given the opportunity to get to know Bernie, they will love him and see that he can and will work on their behalf.
cali
(114,904 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)However, I'm a senior citizen who has lived in the South my entire life. My opinion has been based on my personal observations of many, many black people I have known.
I don't like to disagree with your posts as they are consistently right on the money , in my opinion. In this case, let's hope than I'm right and that the African Americans will be drawn to Bernie with his message of political reform.
cali
(114,904 posts)You surely no more about the south than this unrepentant Yankee
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)in SC to be absurd. He expressed that Bernie's differences with Obama policy
are not about Obama, per sey. He also reminded another commentator that
young black Americans do not have the connections to the Clinton people
as some older people do.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)Its been 8 years but once their collective memory starts coming back about that awful episode, the exodus from Camp Clinton will begin en masse.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)I have no knowledge of what AA's think, value or "are comfortable with" in respect to this election. I can only draw on my experiences with AA friends, co-workers and acquaintances in my life and I draw this conclusion: The AA community in the US is the most oppressed, mistreated and targeted population in this country and I as a fellow citizen that cares about their well being (because they're my friends, co-workers and fellow Americans) can only respect their unique point of view and support them in their struggle for equality and respect in this country no matter who they vote for.
I have my opinions on who would be most beneficial to them (and the rest of us) but I'm not going assume they are a monolithic block of voters that march in lock step, use sweeping generalities to characterize them as a group or dismiss they're human ability to observe, evaluate and decide.
artislife
(9,497 posts)I agree with your words, tazkcmo.
Some of the other words in this feed are sounding a little paternalistic as if the AA community isn't a part of this site, reading these OPs, having thoughts of their own.
I love this part especially
I have noted the lack of OPs on the Latino population and why we (Latina here) are not fully embracing Bernie as we "should".
And I say this as a Bernie supporter. I think we need to make the case for Bernie without suggesting certain groups get with the program. We have been very successful at showing why younger women are for Bernie and we use their words to convey their disappointment with the 3 incidents by surrogates against younger women. We change the dialogue when speaking about the African American community. I hope everyone can see the nuance, well I think it is obvious...but..., and ask how you can not single out a group differently.
Renaissance Man
(669 posts)Hillary's 2008 behavior during the primaries and the legacy of the Clinton family as it relates to black people are two things that are completely unforgivable to me. Hence, my support of Bernie Sanders.
I think that if his campaign would do more work in voter outreach (and if Bernie were more forceful in dealing with Hillary's support of Bill Clinton's policies on race, crime, welfare, and taxes in the 90's), he could make some serious inroads. He also should drop Cornel West as a surrogate. The optics are horrible (especially with the degree of criticism that Cornel West has leveled on the President).
He does those two things, and he could make inroads.
cali
(114,904 posts)that religion is a factor that works for Hillary and against Bernie?
I agree with you about West who I long admired as one of this country's all too few prominent public intellectuals, but he offended and lost me with some of his comments about President Obama.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)It would be laughable to watch the Clintons pandering to evangelicals and black Christian vote.
The Clintons are not known as religious types, and AAs would not buy it.
Obama was good at pandering to Christians, the Clintons are not.
Renaissance Man
(669 posts)I am the son of a reverend of a Southern Baptist church. Bernie's religious affiliation is not something that is going to work against him with black voters. Black voters tend to vote their pockets more than anything else. His campaign would be smart in making the rounds at Mother Emmanuel and other historic black churches in the South, and explaining how his policies would positively impact black voters.
Free college tuition, banning private prisons, his policies on racial justice (and drawing a stark contrast with the Clinton campaign on Hillary's support of Bill's policies on race, crime, welfare, and taxes in the 90's) are all angles that his campaign can take to win black voters. It's just going to take some effort. I was sold on him the moment he put his hat into the race.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)I would call it a kind of social conservatism, that has some roots in religion. Of course there are die-hard black religionists, but there is a streak of social conservatism among some AA's that transcends religion on issues, e.g., gay marriage and immigration, for example.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)I became a green party member because of Clinton 1. I think Cornel West is useful, in spite of all the talk about his negatives. Not every black person is as enamored with Obama as some like to claim.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)was to have an open conversation on disagreements with Obama's policies then that is what
the focus should have been. Instead he marked it with inflammatory speech that was so
offensive people stop listening...and what were the results? You're not effective on what
you say your objectives are..it was a terrible turn of events, I thought.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)But Hillary calls herself a Protestant, ok.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)people are attending church less every year.
cali
(114,904 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)I am 57, and not at all religious. Never have been.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Never could actually suspend disbelief fully.
Laughing Mirror
(4,185 posts)Just heard him make this announcement on DemocracyNow. He was on discussing reparations.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)on Sanders.
Laughing Mirror
(4,185 posts)he would not say who he would endorse. On Democracy Now is the first time I heard him say this.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)He doesn't endorse, but is voting for Sanders.
Laughing Mirror
(4,185 posts)TA-NEHISI COATES: One can say Senator Sanders should have more explicit antiracist policy within his racial justice platform, not just more general stuff, and still cast a vote for Senator Sanders and still feel that Senator Sanders is the best option that we have in the race. But just because thats who youre going to vote for doesnt mean you then have to agree with everything they say.
AMY GOODMAN: Will you be voting for Senator Sanders?
TA-NEHISI COATES: I will be voting for Senator Sanders. I have tried to avoid this question, but, yes, I will be voting for Senator Sanders. I try to avoid that, because I want to write as a journalistdo you know what I mean?and separate that from my role as, I dont know, a private citizen. But I dont think much is accomplished by ducking the question. Yes, I will vote for Senator Sanders. My son influenced me.
What is the difference between supporting a candidate, endorsing a candidate, voting for a candidate? Not sure I see a sharp distinction.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That's a vote, not an endorsement. An endorsement is urging others to vote for the candidate.
Laughing Mirror
(4,185 posts)Really? That's a new definition of "endorsement" to me.
Hunh ... learn something new everyday.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)For someone like Coates, who has non-zero influence, there is.
This time last year, for instance, I liked Schweitzer. He was who I wanted to support for President. He dropped out during the exploratory phase, and endorsed O'Malley. That is, he said he thought everyone who supported him should support O'Malley instead, and he was willing to stake his reputation behind that. That was a huge factor in getting me to look at O'Malley at all.
Laughing Mirror
(4,185 posts)Okay, I get it. Thanks for explanation.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Bernie might not have been the world's best champion of black America in the past, but he didn't work against them either.
How to win black voters now? Do things for them now. Pledge to do more things specifically to help them once in office. And BE specific. Tell them exactly some of the things he'll do, and CAN do, by himself as President, without dragging in a Republican Congress. Let them know that he WILL be better for them once in office than Clinton will be.
BeyondGeography
(39,284 posts)He doesn't come across as another panderer looking for black votes. CNN had a focus group in SC last night and an older black man raised his hand and said he was for Bernie after hearing his speech. When asked why, he said because Bernie raised the issue of mass incarceration of black males and, in so many words, he could tell from the way Sanders said it that it was heartfelt. The man is sincere in a way that you rarely see in politics and he'll get a hearing. It will be very interesting to see how he does in SC.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Maybe the genuine fight for $15 is better than the halfhearted hope for $12. Maybe fighting for a better wage means more than fighting a war in a faraway land. Maybe speaking truth to power in an honest voice resonates more than being all things to all people.
I guess we'll see soon enough.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Party as something it is not (and has not been for a long time).
cali
(114,904 posts)JI7
(89,175 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)In the mean time you gotta keep the lights on, the heat running, and food in fridge.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)and will definitely close the gap with Ole Hill, but he'll also make up enough ground with disaffected, rural, blue collar whites to offset the difference. I've lived in the south all my life and I'm seeing it every day. I don't think the media and general public get what is happening. If New Hampshire didn't sound the alarm bells, just wait a couple of more weeks. The Clinton campaign knows full well what is about to take place, that is why they are scared shitless and about to go nuclear.
Number23
(24,544 posts)been written about why Sanders has so little support from minority communities. Hint: It ain't all about religion.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)will benefit the Most from who's policies . History should show Bernie has helped all working people, AA will do much better in a Democracy than an Oligarchy which Hillary would be a Huge part of facilitating, look at history .