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Sat Feb 13, 2016, 02:41 PM

The political immaturity of remarks like "Hillary is a Republican"

worries me because I believe due to naivete and immaturity, many will have the attitude of "I will take my ball and go home if I dont get my way".

Some Hillary supporters may decide to do this, but many more Bernie supporters seem to be willing to do this already.

Not only do we need all of us but we need more than us, we need folks out there who arent excited about it, to get excited.

Cant do that if Hillary is the nominee, you say?

Bullshit, you can do that if you stop attacking her, you can actually build an excitement for her for several reasons.

Here is my promise, I will vote for whoever it is I want in the primary, but then I will pivot like a ballet dancer doing "The Nutcracker" if my choice loses.

Now get excited, stay excited, and beat those god damn rightwingers!






p.s. for the record, I am a supporter of Bernie Sanders.

63 replies, 2222 views

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Reply The political immaturity of remarks like "Hillary is a Republican" (Original post)
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 OP
Matt_in_STL Feb 2016 #1
yourout Feb 2016 #30
840high Feb 2016 #53
roguevalley Feb 2016 #62
99Forever Feb 2016 #2
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #3
99Forever Feb 2016 #4
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #7
JRLeft Feb 2016 #10
kristopher Feb 2016 #13
99Forever Feb 2016 #25
MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #33
Attorney in Texas Feb 2016 #12
kristopher Feb 2016 #9
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #15
tularetom Feb 2016 #31
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #32
kristopher Feb 2016 #37
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #39
kristopher Feb 2016 #50
840high Feb 2016 #54
kristopher Feb 2016 #5
CentralMass Feb 2016 #6
SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #8
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #11
JRLeft Feb 2016 #14
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #16
JRLeft Feb 2016 #23
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #24
JRLeft Feb 2016 #28
SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #18
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #19
demwing Feb 2016 #20
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #22
demwing Feb 2016 #29
dragonfly301 Feb 2016 #27
kristopher Feb 2016 #51
Avalux Feb 2016 #17
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #21
Avalux Feb 2016 #34
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #35
Live and Learn Feb 2016 #26
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #36
VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #38
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #40
VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #48
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #41
JRLeft Feb 2016 #42
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #43
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #44
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #47
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #52
kristopher Feb 2016 #57
Matariki Feb 2016 #45
Jackie Wilson Said Feb 2016 #46
Matariki Feb 2016 #49
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #59
Live and Learn Feb 2016 #55
jillan Feb 2016 #56
Juicy_Bellows Feb 2016 #58
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #60
Juicy_Bellows Feb 2016 #61
Trajan Feb 2016 #63

Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 02:51 PM

1. She's a Democrat

 

As far as I know...

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Response to Matt_in_STL (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:20 PM

30. Lol.....I see what you did there!

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Response to Matt_in_STL (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:16 PM

53. haha - and she does

 

not excite me.

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Response to 840high (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:49 PM

62. no one who vacations with Kissinger can call themselves a dem to me. He's the anti-Christ and she

hugs him to her bosom.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 02:54 PM

2. "p.s. for the record, I am a supporter of Bernie Sanders."

Sure you are.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 02:56 PM

3. Really, you doubt me? How sad. How counterproductive.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:00 PM

4. I don't just "doubt you."

I'll refrain from saying more.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:04 PM

7. This is the kind of bullshit that can harm a candidate. Yes, I am and have been for a

long time, what confuses you is you have seen me post positive things about Hillary and negative things about Bernie supporters.

I do that because I understand the issues better than some and because I have seen a lot of garbage coming from certain folks, an example would be you here questioning my honesty.

Yes, not only a Bernie supporter but I have friends who had not heard of him who are now voting for him AND donating to his campaign.

You should be ashamed of yourself but you wont be.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:05 PM

10. She harms herself with her dishonesty.

 

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:06 PM

13. ROFLMAO

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:14 PM

25. What an arrogant steaming pile.

I understand the Ignore function of this site. Welcome to it.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:22 PM

33. You seem to express a lot of knowledge for understanding so little of what you've claimed ..

However, it's not up to me to tell you to be ashamed of yourself. Just do the homework for yourself to understand what level of support each candidate receives from their volunteers AND WHY.

I'm too busy to draw you up a personalized lesson plan on who is supporting Bernie Sanders and the associated attributes. Hopefully, you understand this in time.

Good luck in your quest to know who supports Bernie. Maybe then you will not make it a point to go after his supporters without knowing them.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:06 PM

12. Agreed

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:05 PM

9. It isn't sad; it is a trained observation.

It isn't counterproductive either. Unless that is measured exclusively by your goalposts.

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Response to kristopher (Reply #9)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:07 PM

15. Oh trained observation my ass, how can it be if you are PLAINLY FUCKING WRONG.

Jesus, the damage you people are doing, it is amazing and you wont stop, you wont admit it when you are wrong.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:20 PM

31. "YOU PEOPLE"?????



Perhaps you should choose your words a little more carefully.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #31)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:21 PM

32. Yes, that was an error on my part, when I am called a liar by people who allege to be

fellow liberals, I lose it sometimes.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #32)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:30 PM

37. If you were more creative your effort would be much harder to spot.

But everything you post follows a script that is As Old As The Hills.

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Response to kristopher (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:44 PM

39. This is pathetic and childish. It really is.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:07 PM

50. you took the words right off of my keyboard.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:18 PM

54. "You people" - does not win friends.

 

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:03 PM

5. I can choke down Hillary's corporatism as a lesser evil.

Her dirty campaign tactics are a different - and disqualifying - story.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:03 PM

6. You have that right if you turn it around.

This is tit for tat thing. One camp lobs a grenade, then the other camp retailiates. Then people dig their heels in.

It seems like one camp is playing increasingly dirty politics.
Members of the media with ties to that camp are showing a bias. We had less than transparent caucus results in Iowa and then the losing candidate in New Hampshire receiving the pledges of a disproportionate share of its superdelegates.

You can't expect to play dirty and go for the jugular and then have the other side take it and get onboard at some future point.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:04 PM

8. On many issues she is far to the right of Nixon.

 

political immaturity - think again

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Response to SoLeftIAmRight (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:06 PM

11. Even if she was far to the right of Nixon, which of course she isnt, you still arent seeing the

mature, big picture if you wont vote for her in the GE.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:06 PM

14. She's far to the right of Eisenhower.

 

Don't even get me started on her neoconservativsm

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Response to JRLeft (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:08 PM

16. I am being called a liar, and being laughed at for saying that attacking Bernie supporters

is a bad idea.

Do any of you get it yet?

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:12 PM

23. Attack all you want, it's your life I cannot stand your corporate candidate.

 

She not an honest person.

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Response to JRLeft (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:14 PM

24. But I said Bernie was my candidate. Do you still not see what you are doing?

Dear god, I really am worried.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:18 PM

28. I'm tired of Republican lite, I refuse to bite my tongue anymore.

 

I will do well regardless of who's in power, so I've decided to ride with the candidate who isn't a whole subsidiary of Goldman Sachs. I'm sorry about jumping all over you.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:09 PM

18. Great idea - get a two-fer

 

We can welcome Kissinger back into the White House.

Does this make you happy?

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Response to SoLeftIAmRight (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:10 PM

19. No thanks, hate him

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:11 PM

20. "mature"

 

sounds like "Agree with me or you're not very well developed"

Good luck with that tactic.

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Response to demwing (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:12 PM

22. So you think it is a mature political choice to stay home if you dont get your way?

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:18 PM

29. No, I jus disagree with your framing

 

I have no intention of staying home, but as of right now, I have no intention of EVER supporting Hillary, who I believe to be dishonest and corrupted.

She can change that perception, but I don't see that move coming from her campaign or her allies, just more bullshit.

You're talk of maturity, but is it mature to never learn from your past mistakes?

Hillary doesn't seem to have learned, but I have.

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Response to SoLeftIAmRight (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:18 PM

27. I agree with you

it's not political immaturity - it's that we've been paying attention for so long that we remember when republicans were exactly like her. Nelson Rockerfeller for example - moderate with ties to big banking.

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Response to dragonfly301 (Reply #27)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:12 PM

51. +1

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:08 PM

17. Excitement can't be fabricated, it's either there or it isn't.

Hillary's enthusiasm deficit is her own doing because she doesn't have a clear and compelling message. She talks out of both sides of her mouth. I disagree with her on several issues, but of great importance is insuring that social security is solvent when I am ready to retire. My age group (45-55) pays more federal taxes than any other - I've been paying into SS my whole life. Yet SS may not be there for me. Hillary has not committed to raising the SS cap so that benefits will NOT be cut for those of us who will need it in the future. I have a real problem with that, as should every American.

Aside from the issues, waging a negative campaign and resorting to dirty campaign tricks meant to damage the integrity of her opponent just leaves a bad taste in our mouths. She did it to Obama and she's doing it to Sanders. You can't expect people to fall in line and 'get excited' if she's the nominee. I think the lesser of two evils reason for voting is wearing thin with a lot of us, and definitely won't work with young voters.



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Response to Avalux (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:11 PM

21. Wont work with young voters if they are told that Hillary is the same as GOP

you are right.

Maybe stop saying that and then IF you need her, she then is viable.

This is about winning, beating the GOP who wish to do harm to the human race, do you not agree?

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:23 PM

34. I wish it was that black and white.

If it comes down to it I will vote for her, then promptly throw up. What I won't be able to do is get excited, phone bank, talk to others about how great she'll be. I can't fake how I feel.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #34)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:26 PM

35. I thought you said "it isnt that simple", or that is what my brain heard when I read

black and white, but kind of the same thing, right?

But you see it is that simple for me.

For me , knowing what I know about the other side and what a SC full of Scalia's would do to this country, just one example, is enough to make it very simply or very black and white.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:18 PM

26. Hillary is not a Republican but the policies the Clintons have pushed through certainly are. nt

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:27 PM

36. PUMA is going to come from the same place

 

It did in 2008

Yup. Mark my words

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:35 PM

38. I should just save this in a text document and copypaste it every time I see this kind of thread

I won't vote for someone I wouldn't willingly give my life for. I don't believe she understands what sending people to die for country really means, given her foreign policy record. If we go to war again under her, I don't believe it will be a war in defense of our Constitution. If we go to war again under her, I don't believe it will be for defending our allies. And I certainly don't believe that if we go to war under her again, it won't result in either the end of the world, or the forwarding of the tired tripe about American Exceptionalism.

I raised my hand and swore an oath to protect the United States, and the Constitution. I do not believe she stands for either, and as such, I can't vote for her.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #38)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:46 PM

40. Well, as long as you acknowledge that not doing so helps the GOP.

I really believe Bernie is going to be the candidate and you wont have this problem, I think he is about to blow away the establishment and the media the same as Trump, but Trump is garbage, etc.

But your attitude will be harmful if he isnt the nominee, that is just a fact.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #40)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:58 PM

48. I'm military.

I'm unfortunately used to being harmful-- but my vote, at least from where I stand, means a lot more to me than the country; it means the livelihoods of my brothers and sisters in arms.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:49 PM

41. Ok, let's compare to Jeb.

 

On foreign policy identical.
On economic policy nearly identical...Goldman/Sachs CEO happy with either. Hillary says $12/hr ( if she means it), Jeb says no. Agree on trade agreements, agree on fracking.
On social issues, mixed. They differ on abortion. Since 2013 they differ on SSM. Agree on marijuana. Agree on private prisons. Agree on education. Overall more agreement than disagreement.

In short, although Jeb Bush is unquestionably more conservative than Hillary Clinton, there's not a vast gulf between them. She's just to the left. If Bush is a strong conservative, she's a moderate conservative. What they label themselves is just window-dressing...after all, the Democratic Republic of Korea is neither democratic or a republic, it's a communist dictatorship.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:51 PM

42. ^This

 

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:51 PM

43. What kind of SC justices does Bush appoint? Do I need to tell you?

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #43)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:53 PM

44. Pro-corporate oligarchy supporting ones, like Clinton.

 

The fear card has been played so many times it's becoming ragged and dog-eared. Sanders is every bit as good on woman's issues as Clinton. A successful coalition means supporting each other's issues. You can't demand support of abortion rights issue while also denying economic rights issue. Continuing to do so will cause the coalition to collapse. You lose abortion, we haven't lost economic rights because we don't have them anyway under your rules.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #44)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:57 PM

47. So no problem for women or minorities regardless of who is picking them? Really?

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #47)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:12 PM

52. Sanders SCOTUS picks would be every bit as good if not better inre women and minorities,...

 

...if not better. If you want a coalition, both partners have to be satisfied. If you want support of your issues, you can't expect us to give up ours. That's not a coalition that will continue to survive.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:22 PM

57. "Clinton-Bush 2016? The two-party system has outlived its usefulness."

Clinton-Bush 2016?
The two-party system has outlived its usefulness.

By Charles Wheelan Oct. 19, 2015, at 11:00 a.m.

The current standoff over House speaker has the potential to transform American politics. Here is what ought to happen: The moderate Democrats ought to join forces with the non-tea party Republicans to elect a speaker willing to work with this centrist majority. And then that new coalition should begin to govern, perhaps with a similar coalition in the Senate.

Is this naive? Of course it is. Any remotely hopeful view of American politics is naive these days. But it's not crazy. There are lots of reasons to believe that American politics are due for a major realignment.

America does not have two ideological blocs. It has at least four: the far left (Bernie Sanders); the center left (Hillary Clinton); the center right (traditional Republicans); and the far right (tea party). Most other industrialized democracies have at least this many parties.

The Republican House has become dysfunctional not because of the incompetence of its members (though there is plenty of that) but because the Republican Party has finally reached its breaking point. What do the religiously inspired social conservatives of the far right have in common with the small government libertarians trying to squeeze into the same tent? Not enough to govern apparently.

Hillary Clinton clearly has more in common with Jeb Bush than she does with Bernie Sanders. Similarly...
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/charles-wheelan/2015/10/19/centrists-clinton-and-bush-dont-belong-stuck-in-a-two-party-system

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:54 PM

45. Candidates shouldn't take "my ball" for granted.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #45)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 03:57 PM

46. At least you are honest and openly admit you may choose the burn it to the ground

approach if you dont get your way.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #46)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:00 PM

49. Nope

I personally will vote for whoever wins the nomination.

However, no politician should take that for granted. And I object to your OP that implies that votes should be taken for granted, because 'lesser of two evils' or 'd' after the name or whatever.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #46)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:26 PM

59. That would be the corporatist faction of the party,...

 

...aiming to eliminate a transparant democratic process in order to have a candidate appointed for us by the elites. Fuck that shit.

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:19 PM

55. She definitely wears Democrat clothing. I'll give her that. nt

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:21 PM

56. But calling Bernie a communist with ties to Stalin is a sign of maturity?

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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:25 PM

58. Pretty simple from my seats.

If Hillary wins the primary, we lose the general. REAL simple.

Political wonks may do the nose holding lesser of two evil hootenanny but a lot won't.

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Response to Juicy_Bellows (Reply #58)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:30 PM

60. I've held my nose for 23 years...

 

Nothing to show for it but broken promises of incremental change.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #60)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:42 PM

61. I hear ya.

I appreciate the slow societal bones that have been thrown our way but they never seem to do anything that costs TPTB. I am to the point now where I am 99.9% sure it's Kabuki theatre - and then came Sanders.



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Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 04:56 PM

63. ps for the record

 

I'm taking your negative energy and placing it into a tiny bottle ... Fellow Bernie supporter ...

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