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The most important number from WI; 72% of independents go for Bernie. (Original Post) jg10003 Apr 2016 OP
If it was a one person race 100% would have gone for Bernie. upaloopa Apr 2016 #1
Bernie Had positive favorables overall... GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #3
Actually.. Else You Are Mad Apr 2016 #4
Or, it could mean that the Indys want Bernie to get the nomination because he'll be easier to... Yavin4 Apr 2016 #8
Because independents are partisan Republicans??? jeff47 Apr 2016 #12
Yes. There are Indys that lean Republican and want them to win. n/t Yavin4 Apr 2016 #17
And you think this group is about 70% of independents in WI. jeff47 Apr 2016 #19
And right leaning Indys don't care who the GOP nominee is? bigbrother05 Apr 2016 #57
Man, that was one stupid comment, wasn't it? TheBlackAdder Apr 2016 #67
So Else You Are Mad Apr 2016 #13
NY is a closed primary. And the registration to change is gone. riversedge Apr 2016 #15
That won't Else You Are Mad Apr 2016 #24
only in your mind. riversedge Apr 2016 #26
We shall see. Else You Are Mad Apr 2016 #28
If it's Clinton vs Any R, KPN Apr 2016 #51
You do relise that whom ever wins independents this fall wins the Whitehouse awake Apr 2016 #7
WI is an open primary, independents could have voted for a repub but didn't jg10003 Apr 2016 #10
I bet Trump was hoping to get a bunch of those independents awake Apr 2016 #2
Yep Bernie doing so well likely hurt Trump last night HughLefty1 Apr 2016 #20
Hell yeah! Bernie is the more electable candidate for the GE. If the Democratic Party wants to liberal_at_heart Apr 2016 #5
Exactly. He would win the GE in a landslide. He would be the people's choice. HughLefty1 Apr 2016 #25
My thoughts bkkyosemite Apr 2016 #6
I'd vote for him in any case. SammyWinstonJack Apr 2016 #68
Wow! Thanks. Zorra Apr 2016 #9
Most important number from NY, CT, MD, PA, DE, RI: zero independents. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #11
Which will make the Sanders victories all the more sweeter.... GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #16
You do realize Else You Are Mad Apr 2016 #21
GE is different than a primary though MadBadger Apr 2016 #40
Hillary will "unite the party later," JPnoodleman Apr 2016 #48
How is she going to do that? KPN Apr 2016 #52
They know, but they don't care. Barack_America Apr 2016 #62
Incorrect SheenaR Apr 2016 #22
Why do y'all present such falsehoods. TM99 Apr 2016 #49
And what proof do you have that a high percentage of independents do this? kwassa Apr 2016 #56
Independents who have registered with a party are no longer independent. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #59
You couldn't, as usual, be TM99 Apr 2016 #64
What makes a Democrat a Democrat? A Republican a Republican? Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #65
Still the insulting one TM99 Apr 2016 #66
Many self identify as independents jfern Apr 2016 #63
Hillary implied on CNN a few minutes ago that Bernie wasn't a Democrat until he ran ... Impedimentus Apr 2016 #14
too bad he gets 72% of 0% in NY and PA and MD geek tragedy Apr 2016 #18
Last poll I saw he was winning PA.. HughLefty1 Apr 2016 #27
no you didn't. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #30
Maybe we're just more concerned about 1. Ethics and 2. Winning the GE JudyM Apr 2016 #41
Made up polls don't count KingFlorez Apr 2016 #32
you say that as though it were a good thing. beedle Apr 2016 #31
no it puts Democrats in charge of their own party geek tragedy Apr 2016 #33
That and $2 beedle Apr 2016 #37
there was never a time when "Democrat" meant progressive. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #38
Not since Clinton, no. beedle Apr 2016 #43
before 1992, Zell Miller and Richard Shelby were Democrats. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #44
Too bad for you that a lot of independents registered as Dems just to vote for Bernie. cui bono Apr 2016 #39
I can count the number of contests left that independents can participate in NuclearDem Apr 2016 #23
Thank you for making the case for closed primaries ... salinsky Apr 2016 #29
That sets them up to lose. They may get a big fish in their small pond (only 30% of voters) pdsimdars Apr 2016 #47
He also won 43% of the POC vote. Getting better every state nt riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #34
Yeah, sadly that meme did work in the beginning, when people didn't really know Bernie cui bono Apr 2016 #46
INCORRECT brooklynite Apr 2016 #35
And lots won't show up for Hillary in November. They'll go back to apathy if it's status quo again. cui bono Apr 2016 #42
The most important number from WI; Only 50% of Democrats went to Sanders KingFlorez Apr 2016 #36
Ahh...hadn't seen the numbers. That is excellent Hillary news. Lucinda Apr 2016 #54
Only 50% of Democrats went to Hillary, her worst showing so far. riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #60
Actually, you didn't fix anything KingFlorez Apr 2016 #61
And it seems that Hillary supporters don't realize that these people can vote in the GE pdsimdars Apr 2016 #45
Lucky for Hillary Independents can't vote in the #NYPrimary NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #50
We have seen this over and over and over again. stillwaiting Apr 2016 #53
And that's what will happen in teh GE Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #55
Obviously, Wisconsin is jam-packed with Socialists!! Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #58

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
1. If it was a one person race 100% would have gone for Bernie.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:30 PM
Apr 2016

That statistic is meaningless as an insite in to the general because only one person runs on our side in the general.

 

GeorgiaPeanuts

(2,353 posts)
3. Bernie Had positive favorables overall...
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:31 PM
Apr 2016

Clinton yet again had negative favorables overall...

Voters ain't buying what the Clintons are cooking.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
4. Actually..
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:32 PM
Apr 2016

It means that Sanders has a better chance of winning over right leaning independents and Republicans than Hillary does.

Yavin4

(35,356 posts)
8. Or, it could mean that the Indys want Bernie to get the nomination because he'll be easier to...
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:35 PM
Apr 2016

defeat in the general election.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
12. Because independents are partisan Republicans???
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:37 PM
Apr 2016

Do you actually think these things through before posting them?

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
57. And right leaning Indys don't care who the GOP nominee is?
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:22 PM
Apr 2016

With the tight GOP race, don't think many of them would have passed up the chance to move the needle on the GOP side.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
13. So
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:37 PM
Apr 2016

The majority of all the indpendents in most of the states are voting for Sanders so they can defeat him? That is highly unlikely.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
24. That won't
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:44 PM
Apr 2016

Help her in the GE. If she cannot get those right leaning independents in the GE she loses. There are more than just Bernie independents that vote in the GE.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
28. We shall see.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:51 PM
Apr 2016

But I don't want a GOP in the white house, and Clinton has a lot of problems winning Independents.

awake

(3,226 posts)
7. You do relise that whom ever wins independents this fall wins the Whitehouse
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:34 PM
Apr 2016

There are not enough Democrats to win with out the help of a majority of independents.

awake

(3,226 posts)
2. I bet Trump was hoping to get a bunch of those independents
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:31 PM
Apr 2016

In Wisconsin the independents are way too educated for Trump

HughLefty1

(231 posts)
20. Yep Bernie doing so well likely hurt Trump last night
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:42 PM
Apr 2016

Part of me is really thrilled the establishment in both parties is finally getting a taste of their own medicine this cycle. It's long overdue. The 99% finally standing up to the elites. Unfortunately Bernie will get vile MSM media treatment now that he's making it uncomfortable for HRC. We have to stand strong.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
5. Hell yeah! Bernie is the more electable candidate for the GE. If the Democratic Party wants to
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:33 PM
Apr 2016

win in November they need to stop trying to force him out of the race.

HughLefty1

(231 posts)
25. Exactly. He would win the GE in a landslide. He would be the people's choice.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:47 PM
Apr 2016

Unfortunately the banks, big oil, MSM, etc have hitched their wagons to HRC. That is going to be near impossible to defeat. A revolution. So much $ involved it would require bloodshed.

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
6. My thoughts
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:33 PM
Apr 2016

I have to say that if Bernie gets to the convention and they choose HRC as nominee even though neither has the total delegates (not supers) needed I truly feel Bernie should run as an Independent. Will he? Probably not. But if he did I believe you would see a ground swell.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
21. You do realize
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:43 PM
Apr 2016

That Hillary cannot win without the independent vote. I am not talking about Bernie or Bust independents, I am referring to those that do not have any party affiliation. Hillary cannot win with just those Democrats that have voted for her in the primaries/caucuses.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
49. Why do y'all present such falsehoods.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 02:56 PM
Apr 2016

Independents who have lived in semi-closed and closed primary states know that every four years they must change their vote registration to one of the two major parties in order to vote in the respective primary. Then we simply change it back.

So yes, independents are voting in these states. And it is crazy to think otherwise and not realize the truth of it because the GE will be a fucking sorry ass wake up call for some here when she loses due to the independent vote.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
56. And what proof do you have that a high percentage of independents do this?
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:01 PM
Apr 2016

This should be interesting to see.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
59. Independents who have registered with a party are no longer independent.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:41 PM
Apr 2016

That's not a tough concept.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
64. You couldn't, as usual, be
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 06:11 PM
Apr 2016

more wrong.

Independents that are forced every four years in closed or semi-closed states to vote for either the D or the R primaries do only to vote in those. We inevitably return to our former status. That is why the D & R party have not grown but instead shrunk in the last two decades. That is why the number of left and right leaning independents have grown not shrunk in the last two decades.

It is really just math.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
65. What makes a Democrat a Democrat? A Republican a Republican?
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:34 PM
Apr 2016

Think hard now. You can do it.

Well, on second thought, don't hurt yourself.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
66. Still the insulting one
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:10 PM
Apr 2016

as you just can't help it.

Let's see if you can handle this.

Labels are not identity. In a two party system, with almost 50% of the voting electorate not affiliated with either party, they temporarily register in closed and semi-closed states in order to vote for the candidate they prefer in a two party system.

Are you keeping up?

If it is done temporarily and then they return to their previous independent or unaffiliated status, then they are NOT Republicans or Democrats. They are independents who either lean left or lean right. They may vote for either of the two parties, write in votes, go third party, etc.

I know this must be very hard for you to understand. Why, I really don't know. Let's see if an example will help you.

I am an independent. I live in a semi-closed state. If I want to vote in the primary, I must temporarily change my voter registration prior to a specif deadline to do so. I lean left. I wanted to vote for Sanders as he represents my positions and values. I, therefore, temporarily registered as a Democrat. In exit polls, in interviews, if asked, I am not a Democrat. I am still an independent. I have once more returned to that official status as an unaffiliated. When I vote in GE, I will be one of the 47% of independent voters that you Democrats fucking need. Your party numbers will likely sit around 23% to 26% after the primaries are finished and perhaps even less. You can't win without the left independents.

So not only do we 'invade' your primaries, open and closed, but we also will be deciding who is president this fall, a Republican or a Democrat.

Perhaps this sense of utter helplessness in the face of a reality you can not control is the reason for your fierce denial of facts and reality contrary to your opinions and snark?

Impedimentus

(898 posts)
14. Hillary implied on CNN a few minutes ago that Bernie wasn't a Democrat until he ran ...
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:38 PM
Apr 2016

for president. I guess she doesn't want those annoying independent votes.

FEEL THE BERN - 2016

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
30. no you didn't.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:54 PM
Apr 2016

there's one poll that showed him single digits down.

Sanders folks really ought to get over the notion that they're just that much smarter and aware than the people voting for Clinton

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
31. you say that as though it were a good thing.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:55 PM
Apr 2016

Which I guess is expected for those who put party establishment ahead of everything else.

"Fuck those stupid Independents, if they want a fucking say they can wait till the General Election"

How many laws are signed, how many SCOTUS are nominated, how many stupid bills are vetoed, by the Democratic presidential nominee? My understanding was that there was a general election where the 47% of independents get another chance to have their say ... maybe the rules have changed?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
33. no it puts Democrats in charge of their own party
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:57 PM
Apr 2016

the winner of the Democratic primary is usually a Democrat

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
37. That and $2
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 02:00 PM
Apr 2016

will get you a cheap coffee.

There was a time when "Democrat" usually meant "progressive".

Tribalism is such a petty trait.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
44. before 1992, Zell Miller and Richard Shelby were Democrats.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 02:11 PM
Apr 2016

Heck, Al Gore was a Democrat back then and he's a lot more liberal now than he was back then.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
39. Too bad for you that a lot of independents registered as Dems just to vote for Bernie.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 02:02 PM
Apr 2016

And they are REAL Bernie supporters. Not fake ones like some people.

.

salinsky

(1,065 posts)
29. Thank you for making the case for closed primaries ...
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:53 PM
Apr 2016

... Democrats should pick the Democratic candidate for President.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
47. That sets them up to lose. They may get a big fish in their small pond (only 30% of voters)
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 02:20 PM
Apr 2016

But the general has a much bigger 70% who are not Democrats.

Seems to me the General Election is the important election to keep in mind.

It seems to me you'd want to select someone who could win in the bigger pond.

That leaves you open to LOSING in the GE because you were only in the Democratic bubble when choosing your candidate..

So, closed primaries are kind of small picture thinking.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
46. Yeah, sadly that meme did work in the beginning, when people didn't really know Bernie
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 02:17 PM
Apr 2016

and kept hearing the talking point constantly.

After he got exposure and people started learning his stances and hearing him speak they realized he is the one that will fight for them. And when prominent PoC endorsed him that really started to change things. Hopefully it's not too late.

.

brooklynite

(93,851 posts)
35. INCORRECT
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:57 PM
Apr 2016

72% of Indendents WHO VOTED IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY. Lots more Independents don't show up until November.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
42. And lots won't show up for Hillary in November. They'll go back to apathy if it's status quo again.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 02:04 PM
Apr 2016

They're most likely independents because neither party speaks to them anymore, neither represents their interests since both are corporate now.

Bernie gives them something to believe in again. Without him a lot will feel there's no point in voting again.

.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
36. The most important number from WI; Only 50% of Democrats went to Sanders
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:59 PM
Apr 2016

That is probably his best showing in a primary outside of New Hampshire and Vermont, but it's not really a good number heading into closed primary states. Wisconsin Democrats are quite liberal and Sanders only managed a tie, so...

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
61. Actually, you didn't fix anything
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 06:00 PM
Apr 2016

If you are going to try and correct me, at least have the right numbers. Clinton's poorest showing among Democrats was 48% in New Hampshire, which really was not too horrible considering what a rout that was. Every race that Clinton has won, she has won Democrats comfortably.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
45. And it seems that Hillary supporters don't realize that these people can vote in the GE
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 02:16 PM
Apr 2016

Hillary will never get 72% of independents

Another number. . . Democrats are only 30% of the voters. Hillary needs a whole lot more than Democrats to win.

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
53. We have seen this over and over and over again.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 03:37 PM
Apr 2016

With Bernie we have a much, much better chance at the WH.

And, we have a much, much better chance at building a Democratic Party with "more and better Democrats".

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
55. And that's what will happen in teh GE
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 03:52 PM
Apr 2016

Hillary will have the opposite effect - the RW crowd will come out massively just to vote against her.

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