2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe most important number from WI; 72% of independents go for Bernie.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)That statistic is meaningless as an insite in to the general because only one person runs on our side in the general.
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)Clinton yet again had negative favorables overall...
Voters ain't buying what the Clintons are cooking.
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)It means that Sanders has a better chance of winning over right leaning independents and Republicans than Hillary does.
Yavin4
(35,356 posts)defeat in the general election.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Do you actually think these things through before posting them?
Yavin4
(35,356 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Sure. Makes perfect sense!!!
bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)With the tight GOP race, don't think many of them would have passed up the chance to move the needle on the GOP side.
TheBlackAdder
(28,073 posts)The majority of all the indpendents in most of the states are voting for Sanders so they can defeat him? That is highly unlikely.
riversedge
(69,721 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)Help her in the GE. If she cannot get those right leaning independents in the GE she loses. There are more than just Bernie independents that vote in the GE.
riversedge
(69,721 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)But I don't want a GOP in the white house, and Clinton has a lot of problems winning Independents.
KPN
(15,587 posts)you will essentially get that relative to key economic issues regardless.
awake
(3,226 posts)There are not enough Democrats to win with out the help of a majority of independents.
jg10003
(974 posts)awake
(3,226 posts)In Wisconsin the independents are way too educated for Trump
HughLefty1
(231 posts)Part of me is really thrilled the establishment in both parties is finally getting a taste of their own medicine this cycle. It's long overdue. The 99% finally standing up to the elites. Unfortunately Bernie will get vile MSM media treatment now that he's making it uncomfortable for HRC. We have to stand strong.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)win in November they need to stop trying to force him out of the race.
HughLefty1
(231 posts)Unfortunately the banks, big oil, MSM, etc have hitched their wagons to HRC. That is going to be near impossible to defeat. A revolution. So much $ involved it would require bloodshed.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)I have to say that if Bernie gets to the convention and they choose HRC as nominee even though neither has the total delegates (not supers) needed I truly feel Bernie should run as an Independent. Will he? Probably not. But if he did I believe you would see a ground swell.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)That number adds up to national disaster if Clinton is nominated.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)That Hillary cannot win without the independent vote. I am not talking about Bernie or Bust independents, I am referring to those that do not have any party affiliation. Hillary cannot win with just those Democrats that have voted for her in the primaries/caucuses.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)JPnoodleman
(454 posts)I am guessing she is hoping to solve her problems later.
KPN
(15,587 posts)To me, that'S a perplexing question.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)As long as she is the nominee.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)here in RI
TM99
(8,352 posts)Independents who have lived in semi-closed and closed primary states know that every four years they must change their vote registration to one of the two major parties in order to vote in the respective primary. Then we simply change it back.
So yes, independents are voting in these states. And it is crazy to think otherwise and not realize the truth of it because the GE will be a fucking sorry ass wake up call for some here when she loses due to the independent vote.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)This should be interesting to see.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)That's not a tough concept.
TM99
(8,352 posts)more wrong.
Independents that are forced every four years in closed or semi-closed states to vote for either the D or the R primaries do only to vote in those. We inevitably return to our former status. That is why the D & R party have not grown but instead shrunk in the last two decades. That is why the number of left and right leaning independents have grown not shrunk in the last two decades.
It is really just math.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Think hard now. You can do it.
Well, on second thought, don't hurt yourself.
TM99
(8,352 posts)as you just can't help it.
Let's see if you can handle this.
Labels are not identity. In a two party system, with almost 50% of the voting electorate not affiliated with either party, they temporarily register in closed and semi-closed states in order to vote for the candidate they prefer in a two party system.
Are you keeping up?
If it is done temporarily and then they return to their previous independent or unaffiliated status, then they are NOT Republicans or Democrats. They are independents who either lean left or lean right. They may vote for either of the two parties, write in votes, go third party, etc.
I know this must be very hard for you to understand. Why, I really don't know. Let's see if an example will help you.
I am an independent. I live in a semi-closed state. If I want to vote in the primary, I must temporarily change my voter registration prior to a specif deadline to do so. I lean left. I wanted to vote for Sanders as he represents my positions and values. I, therefore, temporarily registered as a Democrat. In exit polls, in interviews, if asked, I am not a Democrat. I am still an independent. I have once more returned to that official status as an unaffiliated. When I vote in GE, I will be one of the 47% of independent voters that you Democrats fucking need. Your party numbers will likely sit around 23% to 26% after the primaries are finished and perhaps even less. You can't win without the left independents.
So not only do we 'invade' your primaries, open and closed, but we also will be deciding who is president this fall, a Republican or a Democrat.
Perhaps this sense of utter helplessness in the face of a reality you can not control is the reason for your fierce denial of facts and reality contrary to your opinions and snark?
jfern
(5,204 posts)And I think they can still change their party in CT.
Impedimentus
(898 posts)for president. I guess she doesn't want those annoying independent votes.
FEEL THE BERN - 2016
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and has to try to win with Democrats only.
HughLefty1
(231 posts)People are waking up.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)there's one poll that showed him single digits down.
Sanders folks really ought to get over the notion that they're just that much smarter and aware than the people voting for Clinton
JudyM
(29,122 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)Which I guess is expected for those who put party establishment ahead of everything else.
"Fuck those stupid Independents, if they want a fucking say they can wait till the General Election"
How many laws are signed, how many SCOTUS are nominated, how many stupid bills are vetoed, by the Democratic presidential nominee? My understanding was that there was a general election where the 47% of independents get another chance to have their say ... maybe the rules have changed?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the winner of the Democratic primary is usually a Democrat
beedle
(1,235 posts)will get you a cheap coffee.
There was a time when "Democrat" usually meant "progressive".
Tribalism is such a petty trait.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Heck, Al Gore was a Democrat back then and he's a lot more liberal now than he was back then.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And they are REAL Bernie supporters. Not fake ones like some people.
.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)on one hand.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... Democrats should pick the Democratic candidate for President.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)But the general has a much bigger 70% who are not Democrats.
Seems to me the General Election is the important election to keep in mind.
It seems to me you'd want to select someone who could win in the bigger pond.
That leaves you open to LOSING in the GE because you were only in the Democratic bubble when choosing your candidate..
So, closed primaries are kind of small picture thinking.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)and kept hearing the talking point constantly.
After he got exposure and people started learning his stances and hearing him speak they realized he is the one that will fight for them. And when prominent PoC endorsed him that really started to change things. Hopefully it's not too late.
.
brooklynite
(93,851 posts)72% of Indendents WHO VOTED IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY. Lots more Independents don't show up until November.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)They're most likely independents because neither party speaks to them anymore, neither represents their interests since both are corporate now.
Bernie gives them something to believe in again. Without him a lot will feel there's no point in voting again.
.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)That is probably his best showing in a primary outside of New Hampshire and Vermont, but it's not really a good number heading into closed primary states. Wisconsin Democrats are quite liberal and Sanders only managed a tie, so...
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Thankie.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)There. Fixed it for you.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)If you are going to try and correct me, at least have the right numbers. Clinton's poorest showing among Democrats was 48% in New Hampshire, which really was not too horrible considering what a rout that was. Every race that Clinton has won, she has won Democrats comfortably.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Hillary will never get 72% of independents
Another number. . . Democrats are only 30% of the voters. Hillary needs a whole lot more than Democrats to win.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)eom
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)With Bernie we have a much, much better chance at the WH.
And, we have a much, much better chance at building a Democratic Party with "more and better Democrats".
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Hillary will have the opposite effect - the RW crowd will come out massively just to vote against her.