2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA Modern Abe Lincoln
Local rallies look to spark major comeback for Bernie Sanders
(snip)
A MODERN ABE LINCOLN
To many people, Sanders represents the best chance that a man of the people will be elected to the White House.
I associate Bernie Sanders with Abraham Lincoln, Shanley said. Hes a man of principles. He has been his whole life.
Hes the only honest candidate, said Diane Marie, of Marmora, who was hand-lettering a sign with the phrase Bernie, The Only Truth Teller for Saturdays rally. He actually tells the truth. We lack trust in our politicians. Bernie is the answer to that.
Our democracy is broken, said Steve Fenichel, 68, of Ocean City. Corporations control everything. Profit is put over the needs of the people.
Fenichel, who announced he will run as an independent against Congressman Frank LoBiondo in Novembers election, said those three key issues are in sync with Sanders message and that he and Shanley plan to attend both local rallies.
(snip)
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/local-rallies-look-to-spark-major-comeback-for-bernie-sanders/article_441620ea-13d1-11e6-8af8-af70688ff1c8.html
senz
(11,945 posts)A man of principle, plain spoken, not full of himself, a sense of mission and the seriousness that goes with it -- but also quick to laugh.
And kind.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)no matter the powers arrayed against him.
senz
(11,945 posts)His agenda has more to do with us, the American people, than with himself. He is continuing his life work.
I respect him so much for what he is doing. And for not letting the darker forces pull him in.
Stay true to who you are, Bernie.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)critical issue ignoring, "horse race" loving corporate media conglomerates.
Stay true, Bernie.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Can you figure it out?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)of the Sanders base.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)(Bernie Butter is my favorite flavor of Hillary supporter.)
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)Response to Tarc (Reply #9)
Post removed
merrily
(45,251 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)That was the point of the video, not whether Gaddafi should have been taken out or not.
Then there was the video proving Hillary totally lied on the campaign trail in 2008 about receiving flowers from a little girl as part of her official welcome as FLOTUS to another foreign nation. You heartily approve of that, too? I don't know because your post ignored that one entirely.
Ah, you "former Bernie supporter" types are so sincere!
brooklynite
(93,851 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Bernie is "followed" -- supported, actually -- because of the way he has spoken and acted, not in spite of it. Not religiously.
senz
(11,945 posts)You're welcome to read it, Tarc.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)But, then again, FDR was excoriated by the populists of the day as a corporate tool, too.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)It's a rare thing in politics, but it used to be more common in Democrats. Old-style Democrats, pre-1990s Democrats.
Some still have it.
Funny thing about kindness, it's central to many religions and all serious, mature codes of conduct. Some people though, like Bernie, just are.
I'm not a big Grateful Dead fan, but a lyric in one of their songs, "Uncle John's Band," goes through my mind sometimes ...
Well the first days are the hardest days, don't you worry any more,
'Cause when life looks like Easy Street, there is danger at your door.
Think this through with me, let me know your mind,
Wo, oh, what I want to know, is are you kind?
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Not sure if he was born with it or worked it out in his (now under heavy attack) early years of exploration, experimentation, and identity formation. But it's fundamental to his political views, which is probably why he can be so amazingly consistent. He has a base line, an underlying premise, from which everything else flows.
I wish there were less evil, less degradation, in this country. If there were just a bit less greed and fear in America, the forces that align against what Bernie is saying might be able to hear his message and think about it. It's interesting that some most certainly can, quite a few in my (our?) generation and so many, many millennials. Sometimes I think we who can actually hear him, and see him, are the ones who haven't been hypnotized.
There is so much two-dimensional thinking and coarse, coarse emotions in media-generated minds. So much of it around here lately that your little OP feels like an oasis.
So, thanks.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)That he knows is morally and ethically right. That is why his positions are so consistent, because they are rooted in kindness and compassion for others.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)That's exactly the way I feel about Bernie.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)I believe you're floating a bit.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)"Only Abe? Why not aim higher? Jesus!"
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)supposed to be about?
Even our greatest political leaders aren't or weren't deities, they had their share of human frailty.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Bernie is no Abe Lincoln. I know you guys adore him and all, but this is just getting silly now. Abe Lincoln? GMAFB.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)are/were all human.
You have no logical rebuttal other than to claim exaggeration, Lincoln's history is written and in the past, Bernie's is still being drafted.
The issues of the day may be different but both men have some fundamental commonalities whether you wish to admit it or not.
Both men had a high degree of integrity, each felt a connection beyond their own skins, both men are/were committed to the critical issues of the day even when they aren't/weren't generally popular with many if not most Americans.
Both men are/were willing to take on the established powers of the day.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)At this point, it's pretty transparent and very self-serving. "Oh look how wonderful our candidate is! He's just like Abe Lincoln! Aren't we so lucky to be in his great presence! Only future historians will recognize how great he was! And we ... of course WE also recognize how great he is! Never mind that he doesn't win. History will prove us right. He's the Abe Lincoln of our generation."
Gag me!
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)rebuttal so you resort to hurling insult.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Besides, none of this really matters as far as the outcome of the primaries is concerned. Bernie's not going to be the nominee anyway. He and Jane will be headed back to Vermont pretty soon. Enjoy your hero worship party.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)historical or character commonalities.
How it plays out only time will tell but whatever happens; win or lose, won't change those fundamental commonalities.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Nice thoughtful response, btw
But, hey, pretty much on par with most of your posts on DU.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)This is not the case when followers are inspired to connect commonalities between modern day leaders and historical figures.
It makes no difference which political party Lincoln or for that matter Teddy Roosevelt belonged to, they spoke for the people of the time.
Teddy was a Republican as well but he railed against monopolies and trusts.
What matters are the issues and the commonalities, a political party is just a brand and said parties can and have changed what they stand for throughout history.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)it's too much "pretzel logic."
Noun 1. delusions of grandeur - a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are
delusion, psychotic belief - (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary
megalomania - a psychological state characterized by delusions of grandeur
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/delusions+of+grandeur
That term is about the individual, not followers or supporters and as Bernie has made no claim to be like Lincoln or as some other posters on this thread have stated Jesus or the Pope, your use of the term is in error.
The rest of my post is historical fact.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)brain cells should have been able to figure it out what I was saying.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)"Delusions of grandeur, though it might be fitting, Lincoln wasn't a Democrat either n/t"
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)This time I am off .... buh-bye.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)you might actually learn something. Not every communication is a verbal game, a contest, a form of warfare.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)even a teeny tiny bit like Lincoln needs their head examined.
The cult of Sanders is nuts.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)Lincoln took on the powers of the day and was honest in how he felt against the injustice of slavery, Bernie has been doing the same in regards to civil rights throughout his life even when it wasn't popular.
No great historical political leader or for that matter human is without fault and none should be off limits when modern day versions come to the fore.
Lincoln despite his greatness was not a saint, he was probably our most transformational political leader and in some ways ahead of his time.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I love and am loyal, but I stink at unconditional hero worship. The closest I get to that, however, are my feelings about Lincoln.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)I never believed in unconditional hero worship either but I do see some commonalities between Bernie and Abe.
merrily
(45,251 posts)My grade school librarian gave me Sandburg's bio to read. Of course, the bios in those days were hagiographies and I was very young and impressionable. So, in hindsight, I get it. Yet, I have never shaken my reverence and love for Lincoln.
senz
(11,945 posts)I shoulda known.
You had good taste in men.
When I was a little girl being brought up in a very sexist, male-oriented household, I wanted to grow up to marry Albert Schweitzer or Thomas Dooley.
Biographies are good for kids to read. The bios that most moved me when still sorta young (7th-8th grade) were of Thomas Paine and John Muir. Still like those guys quite a bit, and Thomas Paine should be a hero to any self-respecting Democrat.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)about great political leaders accomplishing what they did despite their very human frailties.
merrily
(45,251 posts)but not to the same degree as Lincoln.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)Now he wants to be Lincoln
Who's next the pope?
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)Thou shalt not bear false witness forbids: 1. Speaking falsely in any matter, lying, equivocating, and any way devising and designing to deceive our neighbor. 2. Speaking unjustly against our neighbor, to the prejudice of his reputation; and (which involves the guilty of both).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_bear_false_witness_against_thy_neighbour
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)But I'm not so I don't
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a moral maxim or principle of altruism found in many human cultures and religions, suggesting it may be related to a fundamental human nature.[1][2] The maxim may appear as either a positive or negative injunction governing conduct:
One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself (positive or directive form).[1]
One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated (negative or prohibitive form).[1]
What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself (empathic or responsive form).[1]
The Golden Rule differs from the maxim of reciprocity captured in do ut des - "I give so that you will give in return" - and is rather a unilateral moral commitment to the well-being of the other without the expectation of anything in return.[3]
The concept occurs in some form in nearly every religion[4][5] and ethical tradition.[6] It can also be explained from the perspectives of psychology, philosophy, sociology, and economics. Psychologically, it involves a person empathizing with others. Philosophically, it involves a person perceiving their neighbor also as "I" or "self".[7] Sociologically, 'love your neighbor as yourself' is applicable between individuals, between groups, and also between individuals and groups. In economics, Richard Swift, referring to ideas from David Graeber, suggests that "without some kind of reciprocity society would no longer be able to exist." [8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
If one doesn't prefer to be slandered or libeled against, one shouldn't do it to someone else.
snot
(10,478 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Geez people. Sanders has been attributed to all these people. What am I forgetting? There were a couple more.
VOX
(22,976 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)Beacool
(30,244 posts)How insulting to Lincoln. Some people have lost all common sense.
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)that he wouldn't chain himself to two black women to protest segregation?
That if Lincoln were alive today he wouldn't take on monopolies, trusts and the heavily moneyed interests?
Buzz cook
(2,470 posts)That was the biggest of big business in the US.
Certainly Sanders wouldn't want to be associated with a corporate shill?
Prism
(5,815 posts)Abe Lincoln was a consummate politician. Both extremes really disliked the guy for their reasons. Slaveholders were convinced he wanted to be a tyrant who would steal all they held dear and crush all constitutional rights. Radical Republicans painted him as a borderline slavery sympathizer, because he wasn't quite as fiery about the cause and they all knew who his wife was.
The man had his own agenda, really, and he was constantly balancing the angels and devils who buffeted him.
I've read probably two dozen Lincoln biographies over the years. One of the most concise I've found about his election and how he managed the Republican convention is Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns. It gives a very accessible rough draft of how he balanced all the different forces working against him at the time.
This article seems based on the myth of Lincoln - not the real man. He was crafty, underhanded, ruthless, and not above corruption and cronyism if it meant getting the job done. A very complicated individual who did have the nation's best interests at heart, but who was no saint by any means.
"Honest Abe" was a campaign fiction. But damn if the man didn't have mad political skills.
MFM008
(19,776 posts)yeah he did.