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Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
Fri May 6, 2016, 09:59 PM May 2016

A Modern Abe Lincoln



Local rallies look to spark major comeback for Bernie Sanders

(snip)

A MODERN ABE LINCOLN

To many people, Sanders represents the best chance that a man of the people will be elected to the White House.

“I associate Bernie Sanders with Abraham Lincoln,” Shanley said. “He’s a man of principles. He has been his whole life.”

“He’s the only honest candidate,” said Diane Marie, of Marmora, who was hand-lettering a sign with the phrase “Bernie, The Only Truth Teller” for Saturday’s rally. “He actually tells the truth. We lack trust in our politicians. Bernie is the answer to that.”

“Our democracy is broken,” said Steve Fenichel, 68, of Ocean City. “Corporations control everything. Profit is put over the needs of the people.”

Fenichel, who announced he will run as an independent against Congressman Frank LoBiondo in November’s election, said those three key issues are in sync with Sanders’ message and that he and Shanley plan to attend both local rallies.


(snip)

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/local-rallies-look-to-spark-major-comeback-for-bernie-sanders/article_441620ea-13d1-11e6-8af8-af70688ff1c8.html




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A Modern Abe Lincoln (Original Post) Uncle Joe May 2016 OP
That's how I think of him. senz May 2016 #1
Agreed on all counts, senz, no nonsense and devoted to the critical issues of the day, Uncle Joe May 2016 #2
His opponents can't see that he's far above the dirty little horse race. senz May 2016 #3
I totally agree more and that message couldn't be any more critical than for the Uncle Joe May 2016 #5
Actually, he's behind the horse race. YouDig May 2016 #13
I didn't say "ahead," I said "above." senz May 2016 #17
OK, with those coordinates, he would be "below". YouDig May 2016 #19
Couldn't figure it out, I see. senz May 2016 #21
In a month or so, you're figure it out. YouDig May 2016 #23
This weird cult of personality is one of the least appealing traits Tarc May 2016 #4
Well here's a Pot and Kettle Moment. libdem4life May 2016 #6
LOL! Nailed it. And to another self-declared "former' Bernie supporter, too. merrily May 2016 #28
A "cult" is when you follow someone regardless of what they do or how they act. Uncle Joe May 2016 #7
I haeartily approve of the way Khadaffi was taken out, so that's a non-issue Tarc May 2016 #9
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #10
You missed the point, but no one is shocked. merrily May 2016 #30
A high US government official laughing on camera about the US assassinating a head of state? merrily May 2016 #38
I thought he was killed by other Libyans in the middle of a civil war. brooklynite May 2016 #76
Very well put, Uncle Joe. JackRiddler May 2016 #11
My last journal entry was about a cult of personality. senz May 2016 #8
Lincoln was excoriated by contemporary abolitionists as a sell-out and moderate Recursion May 2016 #12
Bernie has been criticized by dyed in the wool socialists. Uncle Joe May 2016 #14
One of the many reasons I respect Bernie is that he is kind. senz May 2016 #15
I feel the same way, senz, Bernie is of the belief that we're all connected. Uncle Joe May 2016 #18
It seems to be a state of consciousness with him. senz May 2016 #40
Yes, Bernie comes from a bedrock... tex-wyo-dem May 2016 #72
Thank you, Uncle Joe... tex-wyo-dem May 2016 #71
Only Abe? Why not aim higher? Jesus! NurseJackie May 2016 #16
Why not keep your feet on the ground, NurseJackie? Uncle Joe May 2016 #20
I'm here. Firmly planted on terra-reality. Y'all should join us. NurseJackie May 2016 #22
If you believe we should equate Bernie to the socialist jew that died on the cross, Uncle Joe May 2016 #26
You're incorrect on both counts. :-P NurseJackie May 2016 #49
Then why did you make this post #16? Uncle Joe May 2016 #50
If you're going to deify Bernie, why not? NurseJackie May 2016 #52
That's where you are mistaken, no one here is deifying Bernie. What do you believe history is Uncle Joe May 2016 #54
If you're going to exaggerate to the extremes, go big! NurseJackie May 2016 #55
No breaks in comparison of modern day political leaders to historical figures, they Uncle Joe May 2016 #56
It's difficult to tell if you're flattering Bernie or yourself. NurseJackie May 2016 #58
Whether Bernie wins or not he has those fundamental commonalities and to this you have no Uncle Joe May 2016 #61
As I said, I get that you like him and all ... but he ain't all that. NurseJackie May 2016 #63
Bernie is all that but it isn't "hero worship" it's just a logical recognition of Uncle Joe May 2016 #64
Gag me? What, are you a 16 yo from the '80s or something? tex-wyo-dem May 2016 #74
Delusions of grandeur, though it might be fitting, Lincoln wasn't a Democrat either n/t SFnomad May 2016 #24
Delusions of grandeur are when the individual believes he/she is much greater than they are. Uncle Joe May 2016 #27
I haven't seen someone try to twist themselves into a pretzel like that in awhile SFnomad May 2016 #29
So you have no logical rebuttal. Uncle Joe May 2016 #34
I didn't feel like trying to rebut pretzel logic, wasn't worth my time ... buh-bye n/t SFnomad May 2016 #36
I will leave you with the dictionary definition, although I imagine you won't read it because Uncle Joe May 2016 #41
How pedantic of you ... my usage may have been non-standard, but anyone with two functioning SFnomad May 2016 #43
What you were saying had no logical bearing on the OP from your post # 24. Uncle Joe May 2016 #46
Now not only are you twisting yourself into a preztel, you're running around in circles SFnomad May 2016 #47
Run along now. n/t Uncle Joe May 2016 #48
You know, if you'd relax and let yourself think about what you read senz May 2016 #45
Anybody who thinks Sanders is in any way shape or form workinclasszero May 2016 #25
A "cult" is when you follow someone regardless of what they do or how they act. Uncle Joe May 2016 #32
For me, Lincoln was a one off. Not perfect, but a one off. merrily May 2016 #31
I just made a post above yours to that effect, merrily. Uncle Joe May 2016 #33
Yes, but I fell in love with Lincoln and I never fell in love with Sanders, though I admire him. merrily May 2016 #42
One o' them Abe groupies! senz May 2016 #51
I always loved history but even more so after I got out of school when I learned Uncle Joe May 2016 #53
When I got out of school and read about Sandburg, I fell in love with him, too, merrily May 2016 #62
Being the messiah wasn't enough dlwickham May 2016 #35
The messiah would say that you shouldn't bear false witness and that's what you just did. Uncle Joe May 2016 #37
I would really care if I was Jewish or Christian dlwickham May 2016 #39
Well the Golden Rule would apply here as well if you're not religious. Uncle Joe May 2016 #44
Where is the photo of Hillary risking ANYTHING for PoC's or anyone else? snot May 2016 #57
A Man Of The People libodem May 2016 #59
Messiah, prophet, saint, MLK, Feminist hero, Abe, FDR seabeyond May 2016 #60
Gandhi (actually read this on another site). n/t VOX May 2016 #65
Yes. Thank you. Ghandi. And I think one more of the truly outrageous. Nt seabeyond May 2016 #67
You're forgetting a logical rebuttal to the argument. n/t Uncle Joe May 2016 #66
Seriously?????? Beacool May 2016 #68
Are you suggesting that Lincoln was a deity, or that if he were alive in the 1960s Uncle Joe May 2016 #69
Abe Lincoln was a railroad lawyer Buzz cook May 2016 #70
I don't know that I agree with this really Prism May 2016 #73
no BUT he did KNOW Abe Lincoln. MFM008 May 2016 #75
 

senz

(11,945 posts)
1. That's how I think of him.
Fri May 6, 2016, 10:10 PM
May 2016

A man of principle, plain spoken, not full of himself, a sense of mission and the seriousness that goes with it -- but also quick to laugh.

And kind.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
2. Agreed on all counts, senz, no nonsense and devoted to the critical issues of the day,
Fri May 6, 2016, 10:13 PM
May 2016

no matter the powers arrayed against him.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
3. His opponents can't see that he's far above the dirty little horse race.
Fri May 6, 2016, 10:29 PM
May 2016

His agenda has more to do with us, the American people, than with himself. He is continuing his life work.

I respect him so much for what he is doing. And for not letting the darker forces pull him in.

Stay true to who you are, Bernie.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
5. I totally agree more and that message couldn't be any more critical than for the
Fri May 6, 2016, 10:34 PM
May 2016

critical issue ignoring, "horse race" loving corporate media conglomerates.

Stay true, Bernie.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
28. LOL! Nailed it. And to another self-declared "former' Bernie supporter, too.
Fri May 6, 2016, 11:48 PM
May 2016

(Bernie Butter is my favorite flavor of Hillary supporter.)

Response to Tarc (Reply #9)

merrily

(45,251 posts)
38. A high US government official laughing on camera about the US assassinating a head of state?
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:04 AM
May 2016

That was the point of the video, not whether Gaddafi should have been taken out or not.

Then there was the video proving Hillary totally lied on the campaign trail in 2008 about receiving flowers from a little girl as part of her official welcome as FLOTUS to another foreign nation. You heartily approve of that, too? I don't know because your post ignored that one entirely.

Ah, you "former Bernie supporter" types are so sincere!

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
11. Very well put, Uncle Joe.
Fri May 6, 2016, 10:55 PM
May 2016

Bernie is "followed" -- supported, actually -- because of the way he has spoken and acted, not in spite of it. Not religiously.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
12. Lincoln was excoriated by contemporary abolitionists as a sell-out and moderate
Fri May 6, 2016, 10:58 PM
May 2016

But, then again, FDR was excoriated by the populists of the day as a corporate tool, too.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
15. One of the many reasons I respect Bernie is that he is kind.
Fri May 6, 2016, 11:07 PM
May 2016

It's a rare thing in politics, but it used to be more common in Democrats. Old-style Democrats, pre-1990s Democrats.

Some still have it.

Funny thing about kindness, it's central to many religions and all serious, mature codes of conduct. Some people though, like Bernie, just are.

I'm not a big Grateful Dead fan, but a lyric in one of their songs, "Uncle John's Band," goes through my mind sometimes ...

Well the first days are the hardest days, don't you worry any more,
'Cause when life looks like Easy Street, there is danger at your door.
Think this through with me, let me know your mind,
Wo, oh, what I want to know, is are you kind?


Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
18. I feel the same way, senz, Bernie is of the belief that we're all connected.
Fri May 6, 2016, 11:10 PM
May 2016
and I agree with him on this.
 

senz

(11,945 posts)
40. It seems to be a state of consciousness with him.
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:06 AM
May 2016

Not sure if he was born with it or worked it out in his (now under heavy attack) early years of exploration, experimentation, and identity formation. But it's fundamental to his political views, which is probably why he can be so amazingly consistent. He has a base line, an underlying premise, from which everything else flows.

I wish there were less evil, less degradation, in this country. If there were just a bit less greed and fear in America, the forces that align against what Bernie is saying might be able to hear his message and think about it. It's interesting that some most certainly can, quite a few in my (our?) generation and so many, many millennials. Sometimes I think we who can actually hear him, and see him, are the ones who haven't been hypnotized.

There is so much two-dimensional thinking and coarse, coarse emotions in media-generated minds. So much of it around here lately that your little OP feels like an oasis.

So, thanks.

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
72. Yes, Bernie comes from a bedrock...
Sat May 7, 2016, 02:05 AM
May 2016

That he knows is morally and ethically right. That is why his positions are so consistent, because they are rooted in kindness and compassion for others.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
26. If you believe we should equate Bernie to the socialist jew that died on the cross,
Fri May 6, 2016, 11:40 PM
May 2016

I believe you're floating a bit.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
54. That's where you are mistaken, no one here is deifying Bernie. What do you believe history is
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:39 AM
May 2016

supposed to be about?

Even our greatest political leaders aren't or weren't deities, they had their share of human frailty.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
55. If you're going to exaggerate to the extremes, go big!
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:44 AM
May 2016

Bernie is no Abe Lincoln. I know you guys adore him and all, but this is just getting silly now. Abe Lincoln? GMAFB.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
56. No breaks in comparison of modern day political leaders to historical figures, they
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:57 AM
May 2016

are/were all human.

You have no logical rebuttal other than to claim exaggeration, Lincoln's history is written and in the past, Bernie's is still being drafted.

The issues of the day may be different but both men have some fundamental commonalities whether you wish to admit it or not.

Both men had a high degree of integrity, each felt a connection beyond their own skins, both men are/were committed to the critical issues of the day even when they aren't/weren't generally popular with many if not most Americans.

Both men are/were willing to take on the established powers of the day.





NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
58. It's difficult to tell if you're flattering Bernie or yourself.
Sat May 7, 2016, 01:07 AM
May 2016

At this point, it's pretty transparent and very self-serving. "Oh look how wonderful our candidate is! He's just like Abe Lincoln! Aren't we so lucky to be in his great presence! Only future historians will recognize how great he was! And we ... of course WE also recognize how great he is! Never mind that he doesn't win. History will prove us right. He's the Abe Lincoln of our generation."

Gag me!

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
61. Whether Bernie wins or not he has those fundamental commonalities and to this you have no
Sat May 7, 2016, 01:12 AM
May 2016

rebuttal so you resort to hurling insult.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
63. As I said, I get that you like him and all ... but he ain't all that.
Sat May 7, 2016, 01:14 AM
May 2016

Besides, none of this really matters as far as the outcome of the primaries is concerned. Bernie's not going to be the nominee anyway. He and Jane will be headed back to Vermont pretty soon. Enjoy your hero worship party.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
64. Bernie is all that but it isn't "hero worship" it's just a logical recognition of
Sat May 7, 2016, 01:19 AM
May 2016

historical or character commonalities.

How it plays out only time will tell but whatever happens; win or lose, won't change those fundamental commonalities.

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
74. Gag me? What, are you a 16 yo from the '80s or something?
Sat May 7, 2016, 02:10 AM
May 2016

Nice thoughtful response, btw

But, hey, pretty much on par with most of your posts on DU.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
27. Delusions of grandeur are when the individual believes he/she is much greater than they are.
Fri May 6, 2016, 11:46 PM
May 2016

This is not the case when followers are inspired to connect commonalities between modern day leaders and historical figures.

It makes no difference which political party Lincoln or for that matter Teddy Roosevelt belonged to, they spoke for the people of the time.

Teddy was a Republican as well but he railed against monopolies and trusts.

What matters are the issues and the commonalities, a political party is just a brand and said parties can and have changed what they stand for throughout history.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
41. I will leave you with the dictionary definition, although I imagine you won't read it because
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:09 AM
May 2016

it's too much "pretzel logic."



Noun 1. delusions of grandeur - a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are
delusion, psychotic belief - (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary
megalomania - a psychological state characterized by delusions of grandeur


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/delusions+of+grandeur



That term is about the individual, not followers or supporters and as Bernie has made no claim to be like Lincoln or as some other posters on this thread have stated Jesus or the Pope, your use of the term is in error.

The rest of my post is historical fact.
 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
43. How pedantic of you ... my usage may have been non-standard, but anyone with two functioning
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:11 AM
May 2016

brain cells should have been able to figure it out what I was saying.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
46. What you were saying had no logical bearing on the OP from your post # 24.
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:15 AM
May 2016

"Delusions of grandeur, though it might be fitting, Lincoln wasn't a Democrat either n/t"

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
47. Now not only are you twisting yourself into a preztel, you're running around in circles
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:18 AM
May 2016

This time I am off .... buh-bye.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
45. You know, if you'd relax and let yourself think about what you read
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:14 AM
May 2016

you might actually learn something. Not every communication is a verbal game, a contest, a form of warfare.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
25. Anybody who thinks Sanders is in any way shape or form
Fri May 6, 2016, 11:38 PM
May 2016

even a teeny tiny bit like Lincoln needs their head examined.

The cult of Sanders is nuts.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
32. A "cult" is when you follow someone regardless of what they do or how they act.
Fri May 6, 2016, 11:54 PM
May 2016





Lincoln took on the powers of the day and was honest in how he felt against the injustice of slavery, Bernie has been doing the same in regards to civil rights throughout his life even when it wasn't popular.

No great historical political leader or for that matter human is without fault and none should be off limits when modern day versions come to the fore.

Lincoln despite his greatness was not a saint, he was probably our most transformational political leader and in some ways ahead of his time.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
31. For me, Lincoln was a one off. Not perfect, but a one off.
Fri May 6, 2016, 11:53 PM
May 2016

I love and am loyal, but I stink at unconditional hero worship. The closest I get to that, however, are my feelings about Lincoln.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
33. I just made a post above yours to that effect, merrily.
Fri May 6, 2016, 11:56 PM
May 2016


I never believed in unconditional hero worship either but I do see some commonalities between Bernie and Abe.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
42. Yes, but I fell in love with Lincoln and I never fell in love with Sanders, though I admire him.
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:11 AM
May 2016

My grade school librarian gave me Sandburg's bio to read. Of course, the bios in those days were hagiographies and I was very young and impressionable. So, in hindsight, I get it. Yet, I have never shaken my reverence and love for Lincoln.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
51. One o' them Abe groupies!
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:34 AM
May 2016

I shoulda known.

You had good taste in men.

When I was a little girl being brought up in a very sexist, male-oriented household, I wanted to grow up to marry Albert Schweitzer or Thomas Dooley.

Biographies are good for kids to read. The bios that most moved me when still sorta young (7th-8th grade) were of Thomas Paine and John Muir. Still like those guys quite a bit, and Thomas Paine should be a hero to any self-respecting Democrat.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
53. I always loved history but even more so after I got out of school when I learned
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:36 AM
May 2016

about great political leaders accomplishing what they did despite their very human frailties.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
62. When I got out of school and read about Sandburg, I fell in love with him, too,
Sat May 7, 2016, 01:12 AM
May 2016

but not to the same degree as Lincoln.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
37. The messiah would say that you shouldn't bear false witness and that's what you just did.
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:03 AM
May 2016


“Thou shalt not bear false witness” forbids: “1. Speaking falsely in any matter, lying, equivocating, and any way devising and designing to deceive our neighbor. 2. Speaking unjustly against our neighbor, to the prejudice of his reputation; and (which involves the guilty of both).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_bear_false_witness_against_thy_neighbour

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
44. Well the Golden Rule would apply here as well if you're not religious.
Sat May 7, 2016, 12:13 AM
May 2016


The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a moral maxim or principle of altruism found in many human cultures and religions, suggesting it may be related to a fundamental human nature.[1][2] The maxim may appear as either a positive or negative injunction governing conduct:

One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself (positive or directive form).[1]
One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated (negative or prohibitive form).[1]
What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself (empathic or responsive form).[1]
The Golden Rule differs from the maxim of reciprocity captured in do ut des - "I give so that you will give in return" - and is rather a unilateral moral commitment to the well-being of the other without the expectation of anything in return.[3]

The concept occurs in some form in nearly every religion[4][5] and ethical tradition.[6] It can also be explained from the perspectives of psychology, philosophy, sociology, and economics. Psychologically, it involves a person empathizing with others. Philosophically, it involves a person perceiving their neighbor also as "I" or "self".[7] Sociologically, 'love your neighbor as yourself' is applicable between individuals, between groups, and also between individuals and groups. In economics, Richard Swift, referring to ideas from David Graeber, suggests that "without some kind of reciprocity society would no longer be able to exist." [8]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule



If one doesn't prefer to be slandered or libeled against, one shouldn't do it to someone else.
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
60. Messiah, prophet, saint, MLK, Feminist hero, Abe, FDR
Sat May 7, 2016, 01:11 AM
May 2016

Geez people. Sanders has been attributed to all these people. What am I forgetting? There were a couple more.

Uncle Joe

(58,111 posts)
69. Are you suggesting that Lincoln was a deity, or that if he were alive in the 1960s
Sat May 7, 2016, 01:40 AM
May 2016

that he wouldn't chain himself to two black women to protest segregation?

That if Lincoln were alive today he wouldn't take on monopolies, trusts and the heavily moneyed interests?

Buzz cook

(2,470 posts)
70. Abe Lincoln was a railroad lawyer
Sat May 7, 2016, 01:51 AM
May 2016

That was the biggest of big business in the US.

Certainly Sanders wouldn't want to be associated with a corporate shill?

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
73. I don't know that I agree with this really
Sat May 7, 2016, 02:06 AM
May 2016

Abe Lincoln was a consummate politician. Both extremes really disliked the guy for their reasons. Slaveholders were convinced he wanted to be a tyrant who would steal all they held dear and crush all constitutional rights. Radical Republicans painted him as a borderline slavery sympathizer, because he wasn't quite as fiery about the cause and they all knew who his wife was.

The man had his own agenda, really, and he was constantly balancing the angels and devils who buffeted him.

I've read probably two dozen Lincoln biographies over the years. One of the most concise I've found about his election and how he managed the Republican convention is Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns. It gives a very accessible rough draft of how he balanced all the different forces working against him at the time.

This article seems based on the myth of Lincoln - not the real man. He was crafty, underhanded, ruthless, and not above corruption and cronyism if it meant getting the job done. A very complicated individual who did have the nation's best interests at heart, but who was no saint by any means.

"Honest Abe" was a campaign fiction. But damn if the man didn't have mad political skills.

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