2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMath is math. Hillary Clinton is the preseumptive nominee.
Anyone running against her CANNOT win as there are not enough delegates left. At all.
Pretending this is still a race when there is absolutely no measure by which he can win is doing nothing more than helping the Orange One Who Wants To Procreate With His Daughter.
There. Is. No. Metric. By. Which. Bernie. Can. Win. So. All. He. Can. Do. Is. Further. Our. Divide.
It seems that some would rather get it handed to them at the convention. We don't have to win it there, because we have won it *already*. I would have preferred to see a coalition, but like all things in reality, you have to play the hand you're dealt, not the one you wish you had.
Math is math. Hillary won.
smiley
(1,432 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)because all those Bern feelers did not turn out to be Bern voters, I'm afraid.
smiley
(1,432 posts)I guess you're feeling the bern.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)let alone win the nomination. He could win each remaining state by 100% and he *still* can't get the nomination.
This means he is helping them, and you know it.
smiley
(1,432 posts)because Clinton won't have a majority either.
And if Sander wins 100% of the remaining primaries (which is the scenario you present), and the supers still stay with Clinton. Then that's fucked up, and you know it.
I know you're probably paid to argue your point, but do yourself a favor and read the link.
http://www.feelthemath.org/
I'm gonna do myself a favor and remove this thread, and you, from my life. I should've never kicked this bullshit.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)and it's what got HRC in 2008, despite the fact that she had the popular vote. Bernie doesn't even have that. So expecting the supers to usurp the will of the people is crazy, and they're not going to change.
And you know it.
And so does *he*, which is why we are getting a bit less nice.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)He's WAY behind. Some of you Sandernistas really just need to look at Demrace.com and run the scenarios. Do it. Run them.
And keep in mind that Sanders looks like he's going to come up about 15 points short of his target in WV. And that's in a state very favorable to him.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Just *GO* to the link. The math was *done* for you.
You would shit your pants, if Bernie gave the Indies a real chance to "feel the Bern" and vote for him after the Dem convention.
That's OK. We're going to retake the Dem party, so that the progressive Indies feel welcome and the conservatives rush back to their own party.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Math is math. Hillary has won the Democratic nomination. And this is DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND, not "indybernieunderground"
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,504 posts)Clinton has nearly 3 million more voters than Sanders.
There has been 6.9 million fewer total voters than in 2008 for states that voted. Where are those millions of new voters?
Clinton has a 284 delegate advantage compared to Obama's 48 advantage in 2008 right after Kentucky.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Really? Well then this is not the United States anymore. Get back to me when the election fraud is sorted out from several states here as well.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)You're welcome!
pangaia
(24,324 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)You can say 'math' ad nauseum, but she still doesn't have enough delegates.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It's that simple. Once she has enough delegates, the fat lady sings.
The fat lady has not sang yet.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)The problem has been and still is HOW she got
to that point.
The issue of the manipulation of the debates,
the irregularities of the voting process, the
changes of rules.
All that reminded me of repugs, not Dems.
Then again, since your candidate now claims
that she has the same values as the repugs,
it makes sense.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,504 posts)The rules have been the same for decades and for this convention they were approved late last year.
BainsBane
(53,003 posts)who overwhelmingly support Clinton, just as they overwhelmingly support Democrats in general elections. In AZ those Hispanic districts were targeted because SCOTUS struck down Article V of the Voting Rights Act. The primary was simply a run through for the general election. In fact, voter disenfranchisement throughout the nation always targets people of color,
There is no grand conspiracy against the white bourgeoisie, against exurban and rural voters--areas that support Sanders in the primaries and Republicans in the general elections. Now I understand that the fact voters failed to cast their ballots as you insist they must are enough for you to determine the elections to be invalid because of course the concern has exactly nothing to do with voting rights or full participation but entirely in imposing your wishes over the majority.
The self entitled are certain that the votes of the majority pale in comparison to their own, which is why they have no problem supporting a candidate whose entire argument hinges on winning by overturning the results of elections and seizing the nomination simply because he and his supporters are superior to the 12 million Democratic voters who have cast their votes for Clinton. I don't think it would be fair to call such a value Republican because even the GOP has managed to come around to the idea that the outcome of elections should actually hold. Not Bernie. He wants the superdelegates to nullify those voters, to overturn the electoral will of the majority and impose him as the nominee even though he trails by millions of votes.
In terms of voter disenfranchisement, the system that most limits voter participation is caucuses, where averages only 3.7%. Sanders supporters of course support that system--the most restrictive to full participation that exists because the singular goal is to install Bernie in power so they can wield control over the majority of Americans. That contempt for the will of the majority is made evident through their continued support of Sanders as he argues that the votes of the majority should be overturned to favor his candidacy based on his assessment that corporate polls over actual votes of lowly citizens. I would seem that electoral democracy and the rights of the majority are an obstacle to overcome, not a value to be protected. Given the profoundly anti-democratic and anti-egalitarian values that have become evident through his strategy to seize the nomination, and that you voice no opposition to any of that but rather insist on arguing the votes of the majority are illegitimate, I find your remark about "repug" values ironic, to say the least (especially given all the Trump humping by people claiming to be Sanders supporters on this site). I understand that your candidate and his supporters are certain that they are entitled to rule over the majority of Americans, but we will not submit to those efforts. You're just going to have to face the fact that other people besides you actually count and that Bernie will not be able to carry out regime change at home.
I oppose anyone who undermines voting rights and equal rights, who seeks to overturn elections, regardless of what they call themselves politically. That is a key value I maintain, and that some who oppose those rights call themselves progressives is simply a matter of nomenclature.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)polls of what % of voters trust her in comparison
to SBS.
There are good reasons for that.
I remember many HRC supporters having been
very upset with the tricks DWS has played,
but that all is forgotten by now.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Nice try though. Hillary has already won the nomination.
Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #20)
Post removed
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)much emails or Benghazi or Libya or Honduras. How about pay to play through the SOS and the Clinton Foundation?
Spiro Agnew keeps coming up.....
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)the presumptive nominee, because there is NO WAY Bernie can win. So all of those things, and Bernie *still* couldn't beat her? Damn. Telling.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)"She is the presumptive nominee!!" Bernie must concede! Unite!
Oh and by the way, not a witch hunt.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Thanks.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)What about the other facts? Are you truly comfortable with what appears to have been happening with deals being delivered by SOS and donations streaming in to Clinton Foundation?
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)You win LaydeeBug. Done.
But you still have not answered my question from above. Pay to play, SOS, Clinton Foundation.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)and sleep comfy knowing that we ran with Obama, and now we're coming home to Mama.
Sleep well!!
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)It's almost like you need to convince yourselves.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)"Coming home to Mama"?
Seriously?
Shoot me!
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)But we're comin' home to Mama!!!
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts).. describing what Bernie supporters "think", or "feel", or "are like."
OPs packed with petty insults, weak straw men, mock indignation and self-righteous pontification.
As if such things somehow help their cause in any way.
The reality is that it's this kind of nonsense that caused Bernie supporters to stop taking anything many Hillary supporters seriously.
It's not worth the effort.
Any real argument you might have had is obscured and lost inside the rest of that nonsense.
So stick with that tactic, it's working very well for Hillary.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Good luck.
PS. He lost this, even if he wins each and every one left by 100%
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)quaker bill
(8,223 posts)Yes it is true that Sec. Clinton could lose her way, all the way from here to a claim on the nomination. What a precious moment that will be.
Proud Public Servant
(2,097 posts)And yet Hillary stayed in until two days after the last primary. Guess we should blame her for setting the precedent.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)deathrind
(1,786 posts)Call the president and tell him we are surrendering our position in Cuba...oh wait...wrong movie.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Dead. Fucking. Wrong.
You need a tutorial and should delete to save embarrassment.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)for each state. He needs more than there are.
Writing. Wall.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)He needs 583 more pledged delegates to reach 2,026, which is a majority of all pledged delegates. There are 903 pledged delegates remaining to be allocated.
He has not been mathematically eliminated. Take the time to understand this. He needs 64.5% of the remaining pledged delegates.
While improbable it is not mathematically impossible.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)Now everyone sit down and shut the F up.
Got it, sweetie, loud and clear.
Now can you calm down.
We understand, all of us do, your position. Hillary is the "presumptive" nominee.
Sleep well.
Dream of "we came, we saw, he died" and then laughter.
Dream of Madeline Albright saying a half million kids dead is okay.
Dream of Kissinger is her mentor.
Gives us nightmares.
You, apparently not so much.
Response to LaydeeBug (Original post)
jmousso75 This message was self-deleted by its author.
dflprincess
(28,057 posts)or Bernie drops out she is not the presumptive nominee.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)srobert
(81 posts)Hillary may win enough votes in upcoming primaries, but she has not done so yet, as of tonight's West Virginia primary. Improbable and impossible are not the same thing. Bernie getting the nomination is currently improbable, but still possible. When it becomes mathematically impossible I will tell you so. Forget what people are saying about the math. A lot of misinformation about that is being communicated. Some of it out of ignorance and some of it deliberately. Just vote.
oasis
(49,152 posts)Hillary is in command of the numbers. The sooner folks wake up to reality, the better off THEY will be.
TheKentuckian
(24,949 posts)Knock yourself out.
Put all the periods after words you like too no one gives a solitary fuck even in Paris in the spring time with a lifetime supply of Spanish fly.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Bernie could still win majority of pledged delegetes. If he does this, a lot of pressure will be put on supers (many of whom are lobbyists and cronys) to flip.
The fact that HRC has more popular votes is trivia. Its means nothinb.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Blue Owl
(49,934 posts)Who also had some math back in 2008 and 2012...