2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary or Bust
I always thought I would support the Democratic nominee no matter who it was, but the Bernie fanatics have become unhinged.
Threatening super delegates, throwing chairs...yelling obscenities at Barbara Boxer. They're at war with Reality...but the reality for those who still value reality is that Hillary is beating Sanders in states won, delegates won and the popular vote...and what we saw in Nevada is the result of a candidate that cannot and will not accept defeat gracefully.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)[link:|
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)>>>The reality is that the Democratic Party is satisfied with the way things are and are willing to sacrifice any positive relationship with the progressive wing in order to maintain their establishment.>>>>>
Bottom line: they like things as they are. Indeed: why wouldn't they?
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Is that Bernie has a better chance of winning the general. The reality is that the DNC has given Hillary every advantage imaginable throughout this campaign to the detriment of everyone running against her. The reality is that the Democratic Party is satisfied with the way things are and are willing to sacrifice any positive relationship with the progressive wing in order to maintain their establishment.
apcalc
(4,461 posts)I think he would be crushed in the GE.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)SFnomad
(3,473 posts)BS would be crushed
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)SFnomad
(3,473 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)They are so similar its hard to tell.one smearmerchant from another.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Sad
creeksneakers2
(7,468 posts)The right wing smears would get a billion dollars worth of air time.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)What did blue nation review sell for when it was set up as the clinton smear machine?
creeksneakers2
(7,468 posts)and a million. A billion is 1,000 times a million. How many people read blue nation review anyway? How many people watch TV?
Jezebel Jackson
(45 posts)Bernie and Hillary voted the same 93% of the time. However much far leftists want to paint Hillary as a right-winger, she isn't and the Right doesn't see her that way. The reality you seek to portray is not. The true reality is that all the smears Hillary or Bernie could never inflict on one another will come out all guns blazing with Trump. They'll call him a socialist, a communist, compare him to everything from Stalin to Mao to even Kim Jong Un. His positions on everything from welfare to socialized medicine will be used and I'm sure his most controversial early writings will be run on a loop. That is the reality.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Jezebel Jackson
(45 posts)This primary has gone way past ridiculous. Ill give Sanders one thing: he sure knows how to go out in a ball of flame. I can't wait to see how the Democrats deal with him in the Senate when he returns.
Sejon
(109 posts)Apparently Bernie is the one more acquainted with reality.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Turin_C3PO
(13,649 posts)But remember, he's agreed to caucus with the Dems all these years in the Senate which made sure they were a majority (for a while) and could retain committee seats and other leadership positions.
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)Sanders hasn't been vetted to any meaningful extent, and we don't elect presidents in this country on popular vote. We use the electoral college.
If you're putting your faith in polls, Clinton does well in swing states and is well ahead of Trump electorally: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/04/upshot/electoral-map-trump-clinton.html
If you have evidence that Sanders would do better electorally, let's see it. I'd also like to see evidence that his poll numbers wouldn't drop once Trump starts in on the vetting, should Sanders win the nomination.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Hillary. I shouldn't have to look that up for you. As for his poll numbers dropping once "vetting" begins, well, that's a hypothetical and can't be proven one way or the other. Hillary's done her best to distort his record though, which admittedly has had an effect. The real issue is the independent vote. Bernie consistently draws the vast majority of independents, and that's what will make the difference come the GE. There's even a couple threads floating around on DU showing a recent poll out of Georgia where Hillary is 4 points behind Trump (pretty good for a Democrat in the deep south) but Bernie is 4 points *ahead*. Think about that. If Bernie is able to take traditionally red states during the GE, can you imagine what the electoral map would look like? I'll give you a hint. Sea of blue.
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)CBS's poll has Hillary ahead of the Donald 51/33 with independents. Since you're so certain that all polls are accurate and reflect what will happen six months from now, your point about Sanders and independents is moot.
Further, Hillary has also done much, much better than Sanders with Democrats in the primary, and Democrats are now the largest voting bloc in the country.
Source, based on multiple polls: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/party-identification
The Gallup poll you guys like to throw around showing independents as the largest group is more than four months old. As more Democrats have registered to vote in the primaries, they've passed independents as the largest group. So, she has the majority of independents vs. Trump and more Democrats than Sanders.
Are you sure you want us to base our decision solely on polls? You might not like the outcome.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Every poll for the last several months, not just the Gallup poll, has Bernie doing better against Trump. Every. Single. One.
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)Ask President Albert Gore.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)creeksneakers2
(7,468 posts)But its equally hypothetical that Bernie would do better than Hillary at this point. We all know for sure the smear job would come. We just don't know how people would react to it. Remember, Bernie generally only does single digits better than Hillary. It wouldn't take many people peeling off to change the balance.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)because with all the whining about how she needs help to beat Trump, I'd say she hasn't been or she has, and now people have decided she sucks due to that vetting process. Either way I wish you well in November.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Your argument is entirely subjective. At least polling provides some quantitative framework as to how the GE will play out, and Bernie clearly has the advantage there.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)The tangerine terror must be stopped.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)I suspect that he is not happy they attacked a popular CA dem right before the CA primaries.
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Yeah okay. And I suppose taunting those same Bernie supporters from the podium was professional and dignified, right? How about ignoring convention protocol? You are witnessing the downfall of the DNC.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)But hey, if Bernie supporters want to go after a popular CA dem right before the primary ... Go for it!
Sounds like a great strategy.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)That such a respectable member of the US Congress wouldn't devolve to the levels of the "commoners". And yet...
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... right before the CA primary.
Again ... brilliant political strategy.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Well, she did that anyway so I guess the effort was fruitless. But go ahead, ignore the corruption that's taking place within the Democratic Party. It's all about the win, right?
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)You claim corruption ... yet you don't even know what was actually going on.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Have you seen videos of the final motion passed last night? How about the very first motion to change the rules for the day. You know, the one where two groups of 1000+ people shouted 'yay' or 'nay'? Now, your hearing might be better than mine, but if two groups that large shouted at me I wouldn't be able to tell which is louder or has more people. This thing was rigged from the beginning.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Ohioblue22
(1,430 posts)apcalc
(4,461 posts)He does not , at least as yet, seem like a gracious loser. But maybe he is. Let us see what happens, his words and deeds.
rock
(13,218 posts)"Hillary or Bust" is Hillary and "Bernie or Bust" is Bust.
Welcome to DU. Stay a while.
djean111
(14,255 posts)many times.
Getting hilariously redundant.
And I sincerely doubt anyone was waiting breathlessly for any other DU member's declaration in order to make up their own mind.
So - yeah, we get it. You support Hillary, and don't like Bernie's supporters. Not a newsflash.
And 'bye.
Skink
(10,122 posts)Things like that
bunnies
(15,859 posts)You're side keeps repeating this as fact. One of you must have proof. Surely.
Arkansas Granny
(31,483 posts)That being said, if she was not the nominee, I would vote for Joe Shit the rag man, if he had a D after his name, rather than allow my vote (or lack thereof) to benefit DT or the Republican party. I certainly would not let the bad behavior of a few Bernie supporters influence my vote
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)"Wire star Wendell Pierce arrested for attacking Bernie Sanders supporters in Atlanta hotel"
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/wire-star-wendell-pierce-arrested-for-attacking-bernie-sanders-supporters-in-atlanta-hotel/
demwing
(16,916 posts)Well, not really. You know one song, and you never fail to sing it.
I just wanted you to feel like you've tried
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)The alternative is insanity.
As for his supporters, some of them quite clearly have their own agendas and quite clearly don't care if they reflect poorly on their candidate. Happens in most election cycles, so one can only try to keep them separate. Not saying that's easy.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Turin_C3PO
(13,649 posts)And just as responsible if that scenario comes to pass and Drumpf wins.
dchill
(38,320 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)BootinUp
(46,924 posts)It will be officially over soon.
Hare Krishna
(58 posts)Clinton is not able to win any elections cleanly.
Why the fuck should I give her my vote if she can't win it cleanly anywhere?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)not all but there are some loud ones. They represent Weaver who I believe leads Sanders.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Sejon
(109 posts)Tarc
(10,472 posts)but they don't spoil it for the man himself.
coffeeAM
(180 posts)Beacool
(30,244 posts)The caveat being that the nominee better be the one who made it to the convention with the most pledged delegates. If the nomination were to be given to the loser of the primaries, I'm staying home. I will also cease to vote in any Democratic race because the party would have stopped being "democratic".
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)At this point, I wouldn't support Hillary if my other choice was George Armstrong Custer...and I'm pretty sure just saying that made great-grandpa Jacob spin in his grave back on the reservation in Montana. Your candidate is more odious to me than the genocidal US Army officer that tried to exterminate my mother's mother's father's ancestors.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)How long must you stay?