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StayFrosty

(237 posts)
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:27 PM May 2016

Hillary or Bust

I always thought I would support the Democratic nominee no matter who it was, but the Bernie fanatics have become unhinged.

Threatening super delegates, throwing chairs...yelling obscenities at Barbara Boxer. They're at war with Reality...but the reality for those who still value reality is that Hillary is beating Sanders in states won, delegates won and the popular vote...and what we saw in Nevada is the result of a candidate that cannot and will not accept defeat gracefully.

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Hillary or Bust (Original Post) StayFrosty May 2016 OP
C'mon man.... Don't be stupid. NT Adrahil May 2016 #1
I'm with HER!! NewImproved Deal May 2016 #2
Key: Smarmie Doofus May 2016 #11
The reality... HerbChestnut May 2016 #3
I do not accept that as true. apcalc May 2016 #13
Then you do not accept reality. n/t HerbChestnut May 2016 #15
You do not accept the fact that BS hasn't faced the right wingnut smear machine yet SFnomad May 2016 #22
Rw smears.differ.from brock smears in what way? SwampG8r May 2016 #36
If you think BS has been smeared yet, you're in denial n/t SFnomad May 2016 #37
I just want to know how to.distinguish a rw.smear.from a brock.smear SwampG8r May 2016 #38
You'd have to give me an example of a "brock smear", if you actually have any n/t SFnomad May 2016 #39
I guess you cant tell either SwampG8r May 2016 #40
For one thing creeksneakers2 May 2016 #63
Like blue nation review? Didnt he just pay a million just for smearing? SwampG8r May 2016 #65
There is a big difference between a billion creeksneakers2 May 2016 #67
There is a limit to how far either Bernie or Hillary could slam one another. Jezebel Jackson May 2016 #47
So pretty much the same as a brock smear is what i get from that SwampG8r May 2016 #53
If you say so. Jezebel Jackson May 2016 #57
That's not what the polls say Sejon May 2016 #55
The reality is that Bernie would be nowhere without the Democratic Party. NOWHERE. JaneyVee May 2016 #14
The party has helped him, no doubt... Turin_C3PO May 2016 #28
There's little evidence of that. TwilightZone May 2016 #24
Every single poll released for the last several months has Bernie doing getter against Trump than... HerbChestnut May 2016 #29
"Bernie consistently draws the vast majority of independents" TwilightZone May 2016 #42
Again... HerbChestnut May 2016 #43
Head-to-head polls are meaningless. We don't vote based on popular vote. TwilightZone May 2016 #44
National polls, state polls, you name it. Bernie is doing better in all of them. HerbChestnut May 2016 #46
I agree that Bernie dropping is a hypothetical creeksneakers2 May 2016 #66
Has Hillary been vetted timmymoff May 2016 #58
the GOP is salivating at the thought of running against Bernie - their ads write themselves DrDan May 2016 #59
Hypothetical with no data to back it up. HerbChestnut May 2016 #60
salivating . . . the ads write themselves DrDan May 2016 #62
Democratic nominee or bust. JaneyVee May 2016 #4
I do not blame Bernie for what his most disgruntled fans are doing. JoePhilly May 2016 #5
Yeah, that probably wasn't the best idea. TwilightZone May 2016 #25
LOL "attacked"... HerbChestnut May 2016 #32
She responded to their attack. JoePhilly May 2016 #34
One would expect... HerbChestnut May 2016 #35
And yet ... some dumb Sanders supporters attacked a popular CA dem ... JoePhilly May 2016 #48
Yeah, they should have remained silent and let her pass whatever motions she wanted... HerbChestnut May 2016 #49
Boxer wasn't passing any motions. JoePhilly May 2016 #50
Is that so? HerbChestnut May 2016 #52
I'm with her. Thinkingabout May 2016 #6
Let's not sink to their level Ohioblue22 May 2016 #7
Agree apcalc May 2016 #8
As a practical matter (and Logic) rock May 2016 #9
In the twelve days that you have been here, you have stated pretty much this same thing many djean111 May 2016 #10
So you stand for money laundering Delegate buying Skink May 2016 #12
Proof chairs were thrown please. bunnies May 2016 #16
I have supported Hillary from the start and fully expect that she will be the Democratic nominee. Arkansas Granny May 2016 #17
I'm with the Democratic nominee rbrnmw May 2016 #18
Hillary Clinton supporters aren't all wonderful, either. Eric J in MN May 2016 #19
Wow, what a turn around for you! demwing May 2016 #20
I'd vote for Sanders in November without reservation. TwilightZone May 2016 #21
#BernieIsABust CrowCityDem May 2016 #23
Just as stupid as Bernie or Bust. Turin_C3PO May 2016 #26
You mean Hillary AND bust. dchill May 2016 #27
You are entitled to vote for anyone you want. jillan May 2016 #30
Don't worry. You'll get your right-wing wished soon enough. Broward May 2016 #31
Primaries are often quite unbecoming. BootinUp May 2016 #33
Ok, you're busted. Hare Krishna May 2016 #41
"They're at war with Reality" NCTraveler May 2016 #45
k. n/t Jester Messiah May 2016 #51
How is Bernie responsible for what they did? Sejon May 2016 #54
I still would've voted for him if he were the nominee; Camp Sanders has some seriously bad apples Tarc May 2016 #56
I thought the title said Hillary is a bust, my bad.. coffeeAM May 2016 #61
I will vote for the Democratic nominee in November. Beacool May 2016 #64
An error in your thread title. It should be Hilllary is bust. EndElectoral May 2016 #68
So...it's bust. Chan790 May 2016 #69
Welcome to DU. Smarmie Doofus May 2016 #70
 

Smarmie Doofus

(14,498 posts)
11. Key:
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:33 PM
May 2016

>>>The reality is that the Democratic Party is satisfied with the way things are and are willing to sacrifice any positive relationship with the progressive wing in order to maintain their establishment.>>>>>

Bottom line: they like things as they are. Indeed: why wouldn't they?

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
3. The reality...
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:30 PM
May 2016

Is that Bernie has a better chance of winning the general. The reality is that the DNC has given Hillary every advantage imaginable throughout this campaign to the detriment of everyone running against her. The reality is that the Democratic Party is satisfied with the way things are and are willing to sacrifice any positive relationship with the progressive wing in order to maintain their establishment.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
22. You do not accept the fact that BS hasn't faced the right wingnut smear machine yet
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:45 PM
May 2016

BS would be crushed

SwampG8r

(10,287 posts)
38. I just want to know how to.distinguish a rw.smear.from a brock.smear
Sun May 15, 2016, 06:27 PM
May 2016

They are so similar its hard to tell.one smearmerchant from another.

SwampG8r

(10,287 posts)
65. Like blue nation review? Didnt he just pay a million just for smearing?
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:02 PM
May 2016

What did blue nation review sell for when it was set up as the clinton smear machine?

creeksneakers2

(7,468 posts)
67. There is a big difference between a billion
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:16 PM
May 2016

and a million. A billion is 1,000 times a million. How many people read blue nation review anyway? How many people watch TV?

 

Jezebel Jackson

(45 posts)
47. There is a limit to how far either Bernie or Hillary could slam one another.
Sun May 15, 2016, 07:03 PM
May 2016

Bernie and Hillary voted the same 93% of the time. However much far leftists want to paint Hillary as a right-winger, she isn't and the Right doesn't see her that way. The reality you seek to portray is not. The true reality is that all the smears Hillary or Bernie could never inflict on one another will come out all guns blazing with Trump. They'll call him a socialist, a communist, compare him to everything from Stalin to Mao to even Kim Jong Un. His positions on everything from welfare to socialized medicine will be used and I'm sure his most controversial early writings will be run on a loop. That is the reality.

 

Jezebel Jackson

(45 posts)
57. If you say so.
Sun May 15, 2016, 07:43 PM
May 2016

This primary has gone way past ridiculous. Ill give Sanders one thing: he sure knows how to go out in a ball of flame. I can't wait to see how the Democrats deal with him in the Senate when he returns.

Turin_C3PO

(13,649 posts)
28. The party has helped him, no doubt...
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:57 PM
May 2016

But remember, he's agreed to caucus with the Dems all these years in the Senate which made sure they were a majority (for a while) and could retain committee seats and other leadership positions.

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
24. There's little evidence of that.
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:53 PM
May 2016

Sanders hasn't been vetted to any meaningful extent, and we don't elect presidents in this country on popular vote. We use the electoral college.

If you're putting your faith in polls, Clinton does well in swing states and is well ahead of Trump electorally: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/04/upshot/electoral-map-trump-clinton.html

If you have evidence that Sanders would do better electorally, let's see it. I'd also like to see evidence that his poll numbers wouldn't drop once Trump starts in on the vetting, should Sanders win the nomination.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
29. Every single poll released for the last several months has Bernie doing getter against Trump than...
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:58 PM
May 2016

Hillary. I shouldn't have to look that up for you. As for his poll numbers dropping once "vetting" begins, well, that's a hypothetical and can't be proven one way or the other. Hillary's done her best to distort his record though, which admittedly has had an effect. The real issue is the independent vote. Bernie consistently draws the vast majority of independents, and that's what will make the difference come the GE. There's even a couple threads floating around on DU showing a recent poll out of Georgia where Hillary is 4 points behind Trump (pretty good for a Democrat in the deep south) but Bernie is 4 points *ahead*. Think about that. If Bernie is able to take traditionally red states during the GE, can you imagine what the electoral map would look like? I'll give you a hint. Sea of blue.

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
42. "Bernie consistently draws the vast majority of independents"
Sun May 15, 2016, 06:52 PM
May 2016

CBS's poll has Hillary ahead of the Donald 51/33 with independents. Since you're so certain that all polls are accurate and reflect what will happen six months from now, your point about Sanders and independents is moot.

Further, Hillary has also done much, much better than Sanders with Democrats in the primary, and Democrats are now the largest voting bloc in the country.

Source, based on multiple polls: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/party-identification

The Gallup poll you guys like to throw around showing independents as the largest group is more than four months old. As more Democrats have registered to vote in the primaries, they've passed independents as the largest group. So, she has the majority of independents vs. Trump and more Democrats than Sanders.

Are you sure you want us to base our decision solely on polls? You might not like the outcome.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
43. Again...
Sun May 15, 2016, 06:53 PM
May 2016

Every poll for the last several months, not just the Gallup poll, has Bernie doing better against Trump. Every. Single. One.

creeksneakers2

(7,468 posts)
66. I agree that Bernie dropping is a hypothetical
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:13 PM
May 2016

But its equally hypothetical that Bernie would do better than Hillary at this point. We all know for sure the smear job would come. We just don't know how people would react to it. Remember, Bernie generally only does single digits better than Hillary. It wouldn't take many people peeling off to change the balance.

 

timmymoff

(1,947 posts)
58. Has Hillary been vetted
Sun May 15, 2016, 07:45 PM
May 2016

because with all the whining about how she needs help to beat Trump, I'd say she hasn't been or she has, and now people have decided she sucks due to that vetting process. Either way I wish you well in November.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
60. Hypothetical with no data to back it up.
Sun May 15, 2016, 07:54 PM
May 2016

Your argument is entirely subjective. At least polling provides some quantitative framework as to how the GE will play out, and Bernie clearly has the advantage there.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
5. I do not blame Bernie for what his most disgruntled fans are doing.
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:30 PM
May 2016

I suspect that he is not happy they attacked a popular CA dem right before the CA primaries.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
32. LOL "attacked"...
Sun May 15, 2016, 06:01 PM
May 2016

Yeah okay. And I suppose taunting those same Bernie supporters from the podium was professional and dignified, right? How about ignoring convention protocol? You are witnessing the downfall of the DNC.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
34. She responded to their attack.
Sun May 15, 2016, 06:11 PM
May 2016

But hey, if Bernie supporters want to go after a popular CA dem right before the primary ... Go for it!

Sounds like a great strategy.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
35. One would expect...
Sun May 15, 2016, 06:17 PM
May 2016

That such a respectable member of the US Congress wouldn't devolve to the levels of the "commoners". And yet...

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
48. And yet ... some dumb Sanders supporters attacked a popular CA dem ...
Sun May 15, 2016, 07:04 PM
May 2016

... right before the CA primary.

Again ... brilliant political strategy.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
49. Yeah, they should have remained silent and let her pass whatever motions she wanted...
Sun May 15, 2016, 07:06 PM
May 2016

Well, she did that anyway so I guess the effort was fruitless. But go ahead, ignore the corruption that's taking place within the Democratic Party. It's all about the win, right?

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
50. Boxer wasn't passing any motions.
Sun May 15, 2016, 07:09 PM
May 2016

You claim corruption ... yet you don't even know what was actually going on.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
52. Is that so?
Sun May 15, 2016, 07:18 PM
May 2016

Have you seen videos of the final motion passed last night? How about the very first motion to change the rules for the day. You know, the one where two groups of 1000+ people shouted 'yay' or 'nay'? Now, your hearing might be better than mine, but if two groups that large shouted at me I wouldn't be able to tell which is louder or has more people. This thing was rigged from the beginning.

apcalc

(4,461 posts)
8. Agree
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:32 PM
May 2016

He does not , at least as yet, seem like a gracious loser. But maybe he is. Let us see what happens, his words and deeds.

rock

(13,218 posts)
9. As a practical matter (and Logic)
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:32 PM
May 2016

"Hillary or Bust" is Hillary and "Bernie or Bust" is Bust.
Welcome to DU. Stay a while.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
10. In the twelve days that you have been here, you have stated pretty much this same thing many
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:33 PM
May 2016

many times.

Getting hilariously redundant.

And I sincerely doubt anyone was waiting breathlessly for any other DU member's declaration in order to make up their own mind.

So - yeah, we get it. You support Hillary, and don't like Bernie's supporters. Not a newsflash.

And 'bye.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
16. Proof chairs were thrown please.
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:37 PM
May 2016

You're side keeps repeating this as fact. One of you must have proof. Surely.

Arkansas Granny

(31,483 posts)
17. I have supported Hillary from the start and fully expect that she will be the Democratic nominee.
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:38 PM
May 2016

That being said, if she was not the nominee, I would vote for Joe Shit the rag man, if he had a D after his name, rather than allow my vote (or lack thereof) to benefit DT or the Republican party. I certainly would not let the bad behavior of a few Bernie supporters influence my vote

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
20. Wow, what a turn around for you!
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:41 PM
May 2016

Well, not really. You know one song, and you never fail to sing it.

I just wanted you to feel like you've tried

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
21. I'd vote for Sanders in November without reservation.
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:45 PM
May 2016

The alternative is insanity.

As for his supporters, some of them quite clearly have their own agendas and quite clearly don't care if they reflect poorly on their candidate. Happens in most election cycles, so one can only try to keep them separate. Not saying that's easy.

Turin_C3PO

(13,649 posts)
26. Just as stupid as Bernie or Bust.
Sun May 15, 2016, 05:55 PM
May 2016

And just as responsible if that scenario comes to pass and Drumpf wins.

 

Hare Krishna

(58 posts)
41. Ok, you're busted.
Sun May 15, 2016, 06:35 PM
May 2016

Clinton is not able to win any elections cleanly.

Why the fuck should I give her my vote if she can't win it cleanly anywhere?

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
45. "They're at war with Reality"
Sun May 15, 2016, 06:58 PM
May 2016

not all but there are some loud ones. They represent Weaver who I believe leads Sanders.

Tarc

(10,472 posts)
56. I still would've voted for him if he were the nominee; Camp Sanders has some seriously bad apples
Sun May 15, 2016, 07:33 PM
May 2016

but they don't spoil it for the man himself.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
64. I will vote for the Democratic nominee in November.
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:01 PM
May 2016

The caveat being that the nominee better be the one who made it to the convention with the most pledged delegates. If the nomination were to be given to the loser of the primaries, I'm staying home. I will also cease to vote in any Democratic race because the party would have stopped being "democratic".



 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
69. So...it's bust.
Sun May 15, 2016, 08:22 PM
May 2016

At this point, I wouldn't support Hillary if my other choice was George Armstrong Custer...and I'm pretty sure just saying that made great-grandpa Jacob spin in his grave back on the reservation in Montana. Your candidate is more odious to me than the genocidal US Army officer that tried to exterminate my mother's mother's father's ancestors.

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