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Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:20 PM Jun 2016

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. -A.Einstein

Thought provoking article posted since we have a couple of weeks to get our ya-ya's out.
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/4h6eb0/to_those_of_you_liberals_who_dont_understand_the/

To those of you liberals who don't understand the Bernie or Bust movement, allow me to explain it in a way that may be clearer and more detailed than what you are used to hearing.

What you are seeing is a group of people who hit their breaking point -- and some day, you will hit yours too. It may be a month from now, it may be eight years from now. The injustices that have been allowed to thrive in our country have resulted in the death and suffering of millions of people. We have a climate crisis, we have lead in our water, we have massive income and wealth inequality, and we have millions of people in prison for petty "crimes" who are being used as slave laborers. These are just a small fraction of the injustices which permeate through every aspect of our government.

The people of this movement have come to the realization that our current system is broken beyond repair and the time for incremental change is over. This is worth repeating. The system under no circumstances can be fixed with establishment politics; it can only be fixed by a progressive political revolution that sends a message loud and clear that we the people are setting a new standard for our elected representatives.

Bernie Sanders understands the urgency to navigate our way out the whirlpool of injustice and impending disasters that inevitably await us and he has a voting record that proves he has the wisdom required to make the right decisions for the country.

When he saw the candidates running for the democratic nominee, he hit his breaking point. Despite never having any aspirations to be president, he knew he had a moral obligation to run. He knows that a Clinton presidency will only prolong the stagnation of our broken system. He knows if she becomes president, in four to eight years from now, our elected representatives will still be reduced to nothing more than a glorified telemarketer begging for money.

He knows we can not afford to compromise on taking aggressive action to address climate change or other necessary regulations that are needed to prevent the death or suffering of millions or even billions of people.

He knows we don't have time for incremental change, especially when that incremental change is going to be led by a centrist candidate with a history of voting blunders that resulted in a diminished middle class and an unstable middle east -- by a candidate who has amassed her personal wealth from the same special interests who fund her campaign -- and by candidate who is basically campaigning on fixing the damage from the legislation she voted for in the first place -- the same legislations that Bernie Sanders passionately spoke out against to anybody who would listen.

For these reasons, Bernie Sanders stepped up and took on the establishment. Progressives finally had a candidate who was something so much more than the stereotypical politician. Sanders has proven beyond reasonable doubt that he has by far the best judgment and the strongest principles of any candidate to run for office in a very long time.

He built up an unprecedented grassroots moment with a very popular platform among democrats and independents. The progressive movement finally had a leader with a vision and a strategy to wrestle our government back from the wealthy few. He inspired millions of people who have long been disengaged from politics to start caring and participating in the system -- which is exactly what needs to happen for progressives to take control of the house and senate and end the gridlock we see today.

I'm well aware of most of the scandals Hillary Clinton has been involved in -- both the real ones and the fake ones -- but out of all of the unethical things she has done, I think the worst was her intentional sabotage of the progressive revolution.

For years, democrats and liberals have blamed republicans for the problems that plague our country. MSNBC regularly issued scathing reports about republican corruption and obstructionism. Progressives rallied behind the "liberal media" and the democratic party (some reluctantly) who were doing what little they could do given the republican opposition.

Democrats have always defended raising money from special interests because it was a necessity. They had to do it because the republicans were doing it. But, Bernie Sanders proved that his platform combined with his refreshing honesty and consistency was so popular that he could raise massive amounts money without relying on any special interests.

This is something Hillary Clinton could not do if her life depended on it. This is not a phenomenon that can be manufactured by anyone with money and power. This is a phenomenon that can only be created by a candidate with an impeccable track record marked by a commitment to altruism and reason.

Hillary should have dropped out early and supported him. The democratic party would have had an incredibly strong candidate with a scandal-free past. The vast majority of her supporters would have accepted him with open arms and been just as passionate about him as his current supporters are. He would be virtually guaranteed to win in a landslide victory against any candidate the republicans could put forward.

But, Hillary Clinton had different plans. She wanted more than anything to be president -- and in the course of this campaign, she has revealed the truth about the democratic party and the "liberal media."

When Bernie Sanders' generated a massive amount of momentum for the progressive revolution and the progressive principles that the democratic party and liberal media claim to want, he and his movement were not accepted by the media nor the democratic party. Instead, he was seen as a threat and the democratic party and the Clinton campaign sought to extinguish his momentum.

They could have embraced Bernie's revolution and doubled its support. They would have been able to launch a fierce campaign uniting enough people to win majorities in every branch of government.

But instead, they sabotaged his campaign through the use of propaganda. Sometimes the propaganda was blatant, sometimes is was subtle, but there is no doubt it was there and there is no doubt it was effective.

Bernie was painted as a pie in the sky idealist with no chance of winning and no concept of reality. But this is not the case and it is not what the Clinton campaign and the media believe. They knew that Bernie Sanders could win and the progressive revolution could build support. That is why the DNC had to hide Clinton and schedule debates at times when people wouldn't see them. If Bernie couldn't win, then the DNC and the media wouldn't have to resort to protecting Hillary and vilifying Sanders.

The republicans are extreme and their policy is worse than Clinton's center-right policy agenda. But at least the republicans don't pretend to be on our side. The Clintons and the liberal media are not stupid. They know what they did and Sanders supporters know what they did -- and it was nothing short of a betrayal....
52 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. -A.Einstein (Original Post) Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 OP
Kick DebDoo Jun 2016 #1
did a child write this ? JI7 Jun 2016 #2
Sounds to me like it was written by an idealist dissatisfied with the half-loaves Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author cyberpj Jun 2016 #26
My guess is yes. nt geek tragedy Jun 2016 #31
He's not a Democrat and he didn't earn enough votes in the primaries. The End. Trust Buster Jun 2016 #3
Yes, that's the "Love and Kindness" I keep hearing so much about. Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #5
I haven't heard about this love and kindness thing. I just deal in the facts of the situation. Trust Buster Jun 2016 #6
Then consider for a moment the irony of your "Trust Buster" handle in the context Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #7
By the facts of the situation I meant that the voters awarded Hillary more votes and pledged Trust Buster Jun 2016 #10
Don't feel like considering the irony? Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #15
I get it. You've got nothin'. Dismissed. Trust Buster Jun 2016 #17
If by "nothing" you mean revealing hypocrisy, then presenting facts & logic, then yes, please flee. Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #18
Now if anyone thinks this man's points are totally off base..... seekthetruth Jun 2016 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author cyberpj Jun 2016 #27
Good catch! Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #28
Lincoln wasn't a Democrat either. Herman4747 Jun 2016 #11
What do you think makes one a Democrat? Was Arlen Specter a Democrat? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #19
"Clinto-Sachs" lolz Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #23
Why Blankenfein? Why not Goldman-Sachs? If Corporations are people like the Clinton-Sachs rhett o rick Jun 2016 #24
Goldman-Sachs for veep might be too in-your-face for this cycle. Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #25
You just pissed off the low information voter Skink Jun 2016 #8
Who are you referring to with that "low information voter" comment ? Trust Buster Jun 2016 #12
Matters not! It's Hur turn and I'm with Hur. Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #13
K & R DookDook Jun 2016 #9
With apologies to Al I.: We can't solve problems by using the same politicians who created them. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #14
Which I posit as the reason we need to break free from the corrupting influence of Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #20
Better framed. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #22
My breaking point came when Sachs &Bain goons kidnapped laserhaas Jun 2016 #16
I well remember your stellar work on these parasites who took down e-toys/KB toys. Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #21
Thanks...the battle continues laserhaas Jun 2016 #30
Tuned, I am! Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #36
One big long whine that Hillary didn't bow down before Bernie geek tragedy Jun 2016 #29
You truly are a (co gnitive dissonance) geek tragedy laserhaas Jun 2016 #32
Seems more like a lament about our slack-jawed march into corporatism. Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #33
It's whining. Whining, whining, whining. geek tragedy Jun 2016 #35
Methinks you are upending the coronation reality. Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #37
Hillary got more votes. She won the primary election. geek tragedy Jun 2016 #43
It's wonderful what name recognition and an mountain of corporate cash will do, isn't it? Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #46
People who think they know everything and are always right geek tragedy Jun 2016 #50
Shorter OP: IT WAS HIS TURN! geek tragedy Jun 2016 #34
Yes, the populace is not ready for a populist. Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #38
Or maybe those wishing for a sweeping change should figure out why they geek tragedy Jun 2016 #42
Or maybe those wishing for expansion of corporate influence shoud figure out how they Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #44
The fact that you assume all Clinton supporters are mindless geek tragedy Jun 2016 #45
Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #47
I read you perfectly clear. geek tragedy Jun 2016 #48
Please feel free to support the candidate who proudly stated- Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #49
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2016 #39
Thanks! Snarkoleptic Jun 2016 #41
Another Einstein: Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Skwmom Jun 2016 #40
Given your interest in Einstein... Herman4747 Jun 2016 #52

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
4. Sounds to me like it was written by an idealist dissatisfied with the half-loaves
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:24 PM
Jun 2016

offered by our current money-driven system.

Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
7. Then consider for a moment the irony of your "Trust Buster" handle in the context
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:35 PM
Jun 2016

of your support for a corporatist candidate who, in may respects, is to the right of Nixon.
How does this square with your desire to "deal in the facts of the situation"?
Hmmm?

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
10. By the facts of the situation I meant that the voters awarded Hillary more votes and pledged
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:41 PM
Jun 2016

delegates than they saw fit to award the guy you were trumpeting in your OP. Insults won't change that reality.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
15. Don't feel like considering the irony?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:48 PM
Jun 2016

Buster of trust (is not equal to) supporting the corporatocracy.
Do you feel that exposing hypocrisy is an insult? If so, introspection may be the best course.
Discuss...no insults...and kindly "just deal in the facts of the situation."

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
18. If by "nothing" you mean revealing hypocrisy, then presenting facts & logic, then yes, please flee.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:56 PM
Jun 2016

Here's some stuff to believe in that may help you find your center. (warning- harsh language and frank speech)

Response to Trust Buster (Reply #6)

 

Herman4747

(1,825 posts)
11. Lincoln wasn't a Democrat either.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:42 PM
Jun 2016

But you knew that, as well as the fact that lack of membership in the Democratic Party does not render one a flawed individual.

Tellingly, Abraham Lincoln was renowned for his honesty.

Mary Todd Lincoln once wrote to a friend that "Mr. Lincoln . . . is almost monomaniac on the subject of honesty." (from http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/honesty.htm )


Hillary? Not so much:


 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
19. What do you think makes one a Democrat? Was Arlen Specter a Democrat?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:01 PM
Jun 2016

Was Lieberman a Democrat? How about Zell Miller? Hillary Clinto-Sachs jumped at the chance to help the Republicons in our hour of need. Is she a Democrat? Sen Sanders meets the criteria of following Democratic Values way more than Hillary Clinton-Sachs.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
24. Why Blankenfein? Why not Goldman-Sachs? If Corporations are people like the Clinton-Sachs
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:25 PM
Jun 2016

supporters argue, then why can't a corporation run for VP? The ticket would be Clinton/Goldman-Sachs. They paid for the honor.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
25. Goldman-Sachs for veep might be too in-your-face for this cycle.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:40 PM
Jun 2016

Blankfein will be a fine proxy for now and then maybe we can be cowed into accepting a 2024 Goldman-Sachs/Monsanto ticket.
I can almost hear the clarion call of the rallys "Big biz, big ag, big biz, big ag", should be easy for the dolts to chant with relative ease.
Kind of has a hypnotic tone that will make everyone feel a part of a movement and everything feel alright.
Hmmm...hmmm....hmmm...hmmm (test-humming out my post-lobotomy mantra)

DookDook

(166 posts)
9. K & R
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:40 PM
Jun 2016

"The people of this movement have come to the realization that our current system is broken beyond repair and the time for incremental change is over. This is worth repeating."

Yup.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
14. With apologies to Al I.: We can't solve problems by using the same politicians who created them.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:45 PM
Jun 2016

Politicians got us where we are.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
20. Which I posit as the reason we need to break free from the corrupting influence of
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:02 PM
Jun 2016

big money in our political system. To reframe, politicians who are corrupted by money got us where we are.
Maybe I'm a starry-eyed optimist, but I want elected official to act in the best interest of our country first and their carbon-life-based constituents second.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
22. Better framed.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:06 PM
Jun 2016

I think under the current system it's not possible for any of them to escape corrupted money. They're addicted to it... the lot of them.

I'd institute term limits to prevent that. Not popular I know, but there it is.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
16. My breaking point came when Sachs &Bain goons kidnapped
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:49 PM
Jun 2016

My daughter...after my own attorney emailed me a Sachs & Bain goon warning me to "back off" or Else.

Issues that were compounded when - after I continued to whistleblow, upon finding more crimes - then the public corruption task force shut down

Upon my getting proof the U.S. Attorney over the case was actually a Goldman Sachs & Bain Capital law firm partner

Which the judge said ...doesn't matter ...because she had to get back to Tweeter

https://shadowproof.com/2015/01/01/the-unending-etoys-com-bankruptcy/

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
21. I well remember your stellar work on these parasites who took down e-toys/KB toys.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:04 PM
Jun 2016

Keep up the good fight and keep us up to date on your battles against these destroyers of value.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
30. Thanks...the battle continues
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:17 PM
Jun 2016

Cayse it ain't easy..to take down big sleazy...

But moi has a surpruse coming....

Please stay tuned?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
29. One big long whine that Hillary didn't bow down before Bernie
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:14 PM
Jun 2016

and kiss the ground he walks on.

Real organizers would be talking about what they could learn from their mistakes to keep building.


Instead the Reddit armchair revolutionaries wallow in adolescent self-pity because they got their ass kicked.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
33. Seems more like a lament about our slack-jawed march into corporatism.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:18 PM
Jun 2016

It's not about Bernie, it's about restoring democracy and pushing back against the monied interests.
Hillary "I...I...I...I..."
Bernie "We...we...we...we"

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
35. It's whining. Whining, whining, whining.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:21 PM
Jun 2016
Hillary should have dropped out early and supported him. The democratic party would have had an incredibly strong candidate with a scandal-free past. The vast majority of her supporters would have accepted him with open arms and been just as passionate about him as his current supporters are. He would be virtually guaranteed to win in a landslide victory against any candidate the republicans could put forward.


They are whining that Hillary ran for President and asked voters for their support.

They wanted a coronation for their King.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
37. Methinks you are upending the coronation reality.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:25 PM
Jun 2016
?1464837919453&1464837921277&1464837929372&1464837930457

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
46. It's wonderful what name recognition and an mountain of corporate cash will do, isn't it?
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:36 AM
Jun 2016

I'm for the winning Democratic team (even if it's to the right of Nixon), yay!

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
50. People who think they know everything and are always right
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:45 AM
Jun 2016

tend to produce very ordinary and unoriginal discourse.

Tedious.

Bye.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
34. Shorter OP: IT WAS HIS TURN!
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:20 PM
Jun 2016

Bernie is too good to have to persuade voters. So unfair that Hillary got more votes than him.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
38. Yes, the populace is not ready for a populist.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:28 PM
Jun 2016

Let's continue to enshrine corporate power over our political system.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
42. Or maybe those wishing for a sweeping change should figure out why they
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:24 AM
Jun 2016

failed to connect with the key constituencies of the Democratic Party and resolve to learn from the mistakes of the Sanders campaign.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
44. Or maybe those wishing for expansion of corporate influence shoud figure out how they
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:32 AM
Jun 2016

are undermining our democracy. Flooding the info-space with cash and empty slogans is not enough to ensnare those with critical thinking skills.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
45. The fact that you assume all Clinton supporters are mindless
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:35 AM
Jun 2016

corporate drones and that Bernie Sanders and his followers have a monopoly on truth and wisdom indicates critical thinking is not what you think it is.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
48. I read you perfectly clear.
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:42 AM
Jun 2016

I can count on one hand the number of Bernie supporters--anywhere-that have conceded that maybe Clinton supporters have valid reasons for their choice and know what they are doing. This hyper sanctimonious screed from Reddit is part of that dynamic.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
49. Please feel free to support the candidate who proudly stated-
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:43 AM
Jun 2016

"My political beliefs are rooted in the conservatism I was raised with..."

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
41. Thanks!
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:34 PM
Jun 2016

I have a hard time worshiping at any altar, least of all one constructed by corporations and their sycophants for the purpose of oppressing the populace.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
40. Another Einstein: Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 11:31 PM
Jun 2016

The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.


I think it definitely applies to Bernie and the Democratic Establishment.
 

Herman4747

(1,825 posts)
52. Given your interest in Einstein...
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 04:17 PM
Jun 2016

...who do you think he would prefer?

Before you answer, please do read this:

Why Socialism?

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