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Armstead

(47,803 posts)
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:03 PM Jun 2016

Folks the US can't shut down all political disagreement for 8 years simply because....

.....Hillary Clinton is female.

Not gonna happen. If she wants the job, she -- and her supporters -- are gonna have to take the lumps that go with the job.

She will not live in a gender encased bubble if she gets into the WH. The GOP is gonna go after her. Independents and Democrats who disagree with her are gonna go after her.

There will be reasoned criticism. There will also be things said that are not always nice.

There will be sexist things said. There will also be critical things said that are not based in sexism.

If she sells us out with one or more policy, she does not get a free pass, just because we're afraid to say something that might have some vague connotation of gender in somebody's mind.

Sorry, but equality, means accepting the crap along with the benefits of equality.



138 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Folks the US can't shut down all political disagreement for 8 years simply because.... (Original Post) Armstead Jun 2016 OP
'If she sells us out with one or more policy, she does not get a free pass, elleng Jun 2016 #1
"IF she sells us out..." No ifs LibDemAlways Jun 2016 #126
But you will get to complain about it so what's the problem? HUGE sarcasm. Skwmom Jun 2016 #128
She's the worst type of politician there is farleftlib Jun 2016 #2
Clinton knows who the real adversaries to progress are Zorro Jun 2016 #65
Trump is worse than HRC lancer78 Jun 2016 #93
I don't think even their SCOTUS pics would be all that different. Jester Messiah Jun 2016 #102
I disagree lancer78 Jun 2016 #104
Trump is also a racist and a misogynist. thucythucy Jun 2016 #130
She is the lancer78 Jun 2016 #68
Only BSS say that. It's a red herring redstateblues Jun 2016 #85
+ a gazillion. nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #116
Clinton has faced sexism her entire life and preserved. How fucking condescending can you be. seabeyond Jun 2016 #3
Call it condescending if you want but it's the truth Armstead Jun 2016 #5
In order for a black, women, gay to run, they must never challenge bigotry? Sure makes it comfy for seabeyond Jun 2016 #8
I might not always agree with you but you expressed exactly what I wished I had..... AuntPatsy Jun 2016 #58
Noone can be called smart lancer78 Jun 2016 #69
do you think you're saying anything that any Clinton supporter doesn't know? geek tragedy Jun 2016 #9
No insight....I'm simply reacting to some of the nonsense being spouted Armstead Jun 2016 #12
no, of course not. geek tragedy Jun 2016 #17
I think that was inappropriate for him to say Armstead Jun 2016 #30
This woman agrees that Hillary Clinton is unqualified. 60 years a feminist woman. It makes me happy GuestCheck Jun 2016 #67
You have an odd definition of unqualified nt geek tragedy Jun 2016 #70
Here is one of my grandnieces definitions GuestCheck Jun 2016 #74
Oh. geek tragedy Jun 2016 #75
That is as a discussion you would want to have with my grandniece. GuestCheck Jun 2016 #76
Hillary voted for the IWR. cui bono Jun 2016 #94
Says one of the people who plays the gender card the most. cui bono Jun 2016 #18
Weird post Cui Bono, even for you. seabeyond Jun 2016 #21
I've seen this claim made before,Sea. If I were you I'd sufrommich Jun 2016 #26
Whatever it is, odd with a dash of... Funny as hell. Lol. Ya, a handful like to play this game. Nt seabeyond Jun 2016 #37
........ sufrommich Jun 2016 #45
The punctuation, capitalization and run on sentences morningfog Jun 2016 #89
I think it's adorable that you cower behind implication. It illustrates your character... LanternWaste Jun 2016 #137
+1000 nt ProudProgressiveNow Jun 2016 #32
So have a lot of us. That doesn't account for her lack of integrity. nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #117
whiplash following your redirect. seabeyond Jun 2016 #118
That was too hard for you to follow? nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #119
Not hard to follow at all. One has nothing to do with the other, or the conversation at hand. seabeyond Jun 2016 #120
This is exactly the argument conservatives made when the racism sufrommich Jun 2016 #4
You want to make it a straw man, then don't use it to excess to deflect criticism Armstead Jun 2016 #7
I'm sure all the ladies appreciate you explaining this whole sexism/criticism/equality geek tragedy Jun 2016 #6
Not all. But some agree with me 100 percent. Armstead Jun 2016 #10
what you said is so banal and mundane and obvious that you really insult geek tragedy Jun 2016 #11
I never said it was a profound unique insight Armstead Jun 2016 #13
no you were lecturing, not merely expressing your opinion geek tragedy Jun 2016 #15
You prove my point Armstead Jun 2016 #23
Yes, when a woman is winning by a wide margin and a bunch of 20 something men geek tragedy Jun 2016 #38
I know nothing about that Twitter campaign...Is it all 20 something males? Armstead Jun 2016 #42
did you not notice the part about the double standard? geek tragedy Jun 2016 #47
You want me to be totally honest? Armstead Jun 2016 #49
okay, do you admit that she has every right to declare victory if she's won the popular vote, the geek tragedy Jun 2016 #50
She has the right to do anything she wants....As does Bernie Armstead Jun 2016 #55
I'm a woman and Armstead can talk about whatever he wants. riderinthestorm Jun 2016 #25
No, you're wrong. I'm a woman and I appreciate the post. cui bono Jun 2016 #28
Glad you did. 840high Jun 2016 #90
Hopefully, your next expressed opinion will be relevant and of substance. LanternWaste Jun 2016 #138
The people who overplayed the gender card need to be told this. cui bono Jun 2016 #20
+1 nt riderinthestorm Jun 2016 #27
+2 unapatriciated Jun 2016 #48
+3 pmorlan1 Jun 2016 #57
+4 dchill Jun 2016 #82
I had this argument last week.. coco77 Jun 2016 #88
+5 840high Jun 2016 #91
I'm 100% positive this place will label anyone sexist... TCJ70 Jun 2016 #14
Democratic is defined as laserhaas Jun 2016 #59
The 'cry wolf' sexists are out in force on this thread. *Everything* critical of Hillary is "sexist" w4rma Jun 2016 #16
It's sad that so many recent posts don't seem to reflect an understanding of these points. Vattel Jun 2016 #19
I'm sure there's a very reasonable cause for the double standards that get geek tragedy Jun 2016 #22
This 'dude' offers that she spent years claiming rights I must not have, according to her Goddy God Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #35
Yes she has faced double standards unapatriciated Jun 2016 #56
there are always going to be bogus claims of bias and discrimination geek tragedy Jun 2016 #60
There has been way too many unapatriciated Jun 2016 #64
the primary contest will be over on Tuesday geek tragedy Jun 2016 #73
Not his place, but it is our place unapatriciated Jun 2016 #135
There is a difference between wanting representation and a seat at the table on one hand geek tragedy Jun 2016 #136
Please use common sense. Vattel Jun 2016 #66
Sure, the reason he's not recognizing the will of the voters geek tragedy Jun 2016 #72
nice deflection Vattel Jun 2016 #95
We will see from his tone this week whether he thinks he can tell Hillary what to do geek tragedy Jun 2016 #98
I would bet on him conceding, but I could be wrong. Vattel Jun 2016 #100
as I said, it will be tone. geek tragedy Jun 2016 #101
Who has suggested the she shouldn't be subject to criticism as President? brooklynite Jun 2016 #24
Read some of the stuff being posted Armstead Jun 2016 #34
I would expect to see most ardent Hillary's supporters follow the lead of Obama's azurnoir Jun 2016 #29
Should she get into the WH, they cannot sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #31
It's be coupleism or something Armstead Jun 2016 #46
People have walked on eggshells over the reason behind the double standard. joshcryer Jun 2016 #33
There is probably sexism involved. But I think the bigger factor is the both of them Armstead Jun 2016 #36
The complaints I and many others have about Hillary snot Jun 2016 #39
Oh yes we can! KoKo Jun 2016 #40
more to the point, kiboshig criticism on DU and DKos won't actually do anything in the real world MisterP Jun 2016 #41
Build a straw-man, knock him over, declare victory!!!! JoePhilly Jun 2016 #43
Do you think the only reason Bernie decided to run was because Clinton is a female? Armstead Jun 2016 #44
No. Put your straw man away. JoePhilly Jun 2016 #84
Political disagreement being shut down is in your imagination MyNameGoesHere Jun 2016 #51
Ask LGBT people how it went with Obama Prism Jun 2016 #52
It happened during the healthcasre debate Armstead Jun 2016 #61
They wore racism out Prism Jun 2016 #62
I would argue it's gone on longer than 2012 BuelahWitch Jun 2016 #97
Replace every single reference to sexism Il_Coniglietto Jun 2016 #53
She's going to be in a protected bubble...here at DU laserhaas Jun 2016 #54
I'm not sure you would ever be able to understand exactly why this is so wrong, AuntPatsy Jun 2016 #63
Where have you been the past 20 years?? DCBob Jun 2016 #71
And your point is.....? Armstead Jun 2016 #77
Feel free to ignore those who say that. DCBob Jun 2016 #79
Others have said it nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #78
I well remember the" I would have liked Hillary had she remained a senator post" Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #80
Yeah let's forget the many admittedly sexist posts they've already treated us too.... bettyellen Jun 2016 #108
My eyesight is bad. Forgive me for typos. Armstead Jun 2016 #111
Works for me Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #113
I well remember "I would have liked Hillary had she remained a senator" Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #81
Good on you Armstead LoverOfLiberty Jun 2016 #83
I always assumed that would be the case -- Democracy has become a Kabuki Dance Armstead Jun 2016 #92
Being female is just one of her many presumed privileges. leveymg Jun 2016 #86
I think having a woman president would bring... tom-servo Jun 2016 #87
I don't expect you to understand how posting something like this 8 years ago... moriah Jun 2016 #96
Sorry, but you are doing what I am referring to Armstead Jun 2016 #109
No, you have said flat out you think she's overstepping "her place". moriah Jun 2016 #114
Everyone has their "place" ....You are inaccuratly characterizing what I said. Armstead Jun 2016 #115
And millions who voted for her for President thought her place was very different moriah Jun 2016 #121
Place was originally a bad use of words. Armstead Jun 2016 #122
Understood on the unrepentance. Also unrepentant here for pointing out... moriah Jun 2016 #129
Come on Armstead, you're smarter than this. Hillary has faced criticism for 30 years and she always seaglass Jun 2016 #99
What you are referring to is not what I am referring to Armstead Jun 2016 #106
You are truly the only person I have seen make that initial argument. NCTraveler Jun 2016 #103
Read the comments....There are people who agree Armstead Jun 2016 #105
Not one outside of yourself. You are the only one. NCTraveler Jun 2016 #107
All those "I agrees" don't exist? Armstead Jun 2016 #110
couldn't agree more K&R n/t dana_b Jun 2016 #112
It was the same with President Obama treestar Jun 2016 #123
Disagreeing with Obama's healthcare policies, for example, was not racism Armstead Jun 2016 #124
I don't think anyone said that treestar Jun 2016 #125
It was said frequently Armstead Jun 2016 #127
New song for Hillary azurnoir Jun 2016 #131
Is that Aimee Mann or have I got my 80's groups mixed up? Armstead Jun 2016 #132
no it's Gwen Stefani aka the former Mrs Gavin Rossdale azurnoir Jun 2016 #133
Ooops...even got my eras mixed up Armstead Jun 2016 #134

elleng

(130,128 posts)
1. 'If she sells us out with one or more policy, she does not get a free pass,
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:07 PM
Jun 2016

just because we're afraid to say something that might have some vague connotation of gender in somebody's mind.'


 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
2. She's the worst type of politician there is
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:08 PM
Jun 2016

and being a woman is not reason enough to overlook her multitude of shortcomings and
faults. Nobody with such a demonstrated lack of integrity should get the nod because she
it's past time for a woman to be president. She doesn't have what it takes and that's no
slur against her gender or anybody else's.

Zorro

(15,691 posts)
65. Clinton knows who the real adversaries to progress are
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:23 PM
Jun 2016

Bernie and his most rabid supporters do not.

 

lancer78

(1,495 posts)
93. Trump is worse than HRC
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 03:46 AM
Jun 2016

But only because of his SCOTUS picks. Otherwise, he and her are the same on fiscal issues more or less.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
102. I don't think even their SCOTUS pics would be all that different.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:27 AM
Jun 2016

They're both corporatists first last and always.

thucythucy

(7,986 posts)
130. Trump is also a racist and a misogynist.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 05:10 PM
Jun 2016

Clinton, for all her flaws, strikes me as neither, which to my mind is a very important distinction. To me, and I would hope to tens of millions of other Americans as well. He's anti-choice (sometimes, anyway) and has said women should be punished legally for seeking an abortion. This isn't "worse" to you than Clinton's support of Planned Parenthood? Every been faced with an unwanted pregnancy? Every had to drive hours to get contraception or a mammogram?

Plus, I have no idea what Trump's stand on "fiscal issues" are. Is he in favor of increased funding for Head Start? Does he support, or want to repeal, the Affordable Health Act? What's his stand on reasonable accommodation as it regards employees with disabilities under the Americans with Disabilities Act? How does he feel about the various bogus GOP "tort reform" proposals?

Trump said he supports Paul Ryan's house agenda, which is anti-women, anti-immigrant, anti-voting rights for people of color. All of that tells me he's a dangerous man to everything I hold dear.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
5. Call it condescending if you want but it's the truth
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:15 PM
Jun 2016

Either one is tough enough to be President and can stand whatever is tossed their way -- or not.

And either people who support a candidate accept that the candidate will be criticized for legitimate reasons -- or not.

Yes sometimes sexism is involved.

But overall when it comes to policy, integrity and the ability to effectively lead, gender's is not always a factor.




 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
8. In order for a black, women, gay to run, they must never challenge bigotry? Sure makes it comfy for
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:18 PM
Jun 2016

all the bigots, you think?

Clinton has had decades being successful in a world of sexism, to suggest she uses it as a victim card, and allows it to hinder her is an insult and dismissal of all she has accomplished. The exact opposite. Men would get the praise for a well run campaign. Hers not good enough. But she just keeps on keeping on. She kicks mens ass as Sanders cries unfair every step of the way in the face of the sexism.

She is strong, solid and smart.

You dismiss her. No that is not ok.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
9. do you think you're saying anything that any Clinton supporter doesn't know?
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:18 PM
Jun 2016

Do you think you're providing some useful insight into gender, sexism and equality in our political discourse that women especially had never, ever, ever thought of?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
12. No insight....I'm simply reacting to some of the nonsense being spouted
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:20 PM
Jun 2016

Do you think Sanders ran against Clinton simply because she is a female?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
17. no, of course not.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:25 PM
Jun 2016

do you think him calling her unqualified was tone deaf in terms of how it sounded to women voters?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
30. I think that was inappropriate for him to say
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:34 PM
Jun 2016

He got upset by what was being said about him, and he said something he shouldn't have.

I won't defend that. He misspoke.

But it wasn't because of gender.

 

GuestCheck

(13 posts)
67. This woman agrees that Hillary Clinton is unqualified. 60 years a feminist woman. It makes me happy
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:51 PM
Jun 2016

that my grandnieces agree & voted for Senator Sanders.

 

GuestCheck

(13 posts)
74. Here is one of my grandnieces definitions
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:27 PM
Jun 2016

Here is one of my grandnieces definitions. "Since I was born, we've been bombing the hell out of people in central asia and the middle east and carrying on assassinations around the globe. My one hope is that Bernie will do whatever he can to make it stop. I believe him when he says he will do whatever he can to bring peace & stability to the world that we've exploited exponentially since WW1. I am hoping for a peacemaker. I don't want the war monger promoting business opportunities in countries that we have destroyed."

 

GuestCheck

(13 posts)
76. That is as a discussion you would want to have with my grandniece.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:31 PM
Jun 2016

Unfortunately, she is not a member of this board.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
94. Hillary voted for the IWR.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 03:50 AM
Jun 2016

That was not only a vote for an illegal war for which she lied about her reasons but also an abdication of her constitutional duties as a member of Congress. She voted to give the responsibility of declaring war away. Think about it. She gave away that duty to GWB. That was a reckless move.

Unfit for office.

.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
18. Says one of the people who plays the gender card the most.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:26 PM
Jun 2016

Or should I say "username". There's no telling who is posting under this name now, but it's clearly not the original seabeyond.

.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
37. Whatever it is, odd with a dash of... Funny as hell. Lol. Ya, a handful like to play this game. Nt
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:41 PM
Jun 2016
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
137. I think it's adorable that you cower behind implication. It illustrates your character...
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 11:46 AM
Jun 2016

I think it's adorable that you cower behind implication. It illustrates your character rather accurately.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
4. This is exactly the argument conservatives made when the racism
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:10 PM
Jun 2016

against Obama became overt. Nobody says she can't be disagreed with,that's a straw man.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
7. You want to make it a straw man, then don't use it to excess to deflect criticism
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:18 PM
Jun 2016

And yeah, if Obama did something that pissed conservatives off, they had every right to criticize him. As have liberals.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
11. what you said is so banal and mundane and obvious that you really insult
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:19 PM
Jun 2016

people by pretending they didn't already know it.


"Not every criticism of a woman is sexism."

That's, like, so deep, man.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
15. no you were lecturing, not merely expressing your opinion
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:22 PM
Jun 2016

usually when one lectures others, one should have at least an equal understanding of the subject matter being discussed

when it comes to sexism and gender inequality, men should pretty much never lecture women on the subject

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
23. You prove my point
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:28 PM
Jun 2016

Yes sexcism exists, and is a factor but.....

Bernie is only running because Hillary Clinton is female. Nothing to do with what he believes in. Just like the 10 million peopel who have voted for him are only doing it because they don't want a woman president.

Bernie is only fighting to the end because she is a woman. There can't be any otehr possible reason.

People don't trust her. That's only because she is a woman. Nothing to do with the times she's said one thing and done another. Nor the fact that she and Bill (a male) have amassed a fortune of almost $200 Million from careers in public office.

All of that is nothing like using gender as an excuse to deflect every legitimate criticism people might have about her. Nosiree. Not at all.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
38. Yes, when a woman is winning by a wide margin and a bunch of 20 something men
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:41 PM
Jun 2016

start a Twitter campaign to tell her to step aside for the man who's losing to her, I suspect sexism in that.

The whole "drop out Hillary" thing was sexism. There was never a "drop out Barack" campaign in 2008 even though his lead was much smaller.

Another double standard:

In 2008, Clinton by some arguments was winning the popular vote and was within a few percentage points in terms of pledged delegates, especially with Florida and Michigan under dispute.

Nonetheless, lots of dudebros in the media (Tweety, Olbermann etc) were calling on her to drop out (with Olbermann making a crack about having her shot in back room). And, when her opponent--a man--crossed the absolute majority of delegates threshold with superdelegates, he claimed victory.

In 2016, she is far and insurpassably ahead of Sanders in every possible relevant metric, and on Tuesday will seize a majority of every category of delegates.

And Mister Sanders wags his finger at her and says she has no right to declare victory just because she beat his ass. Because she's held to a higher standard than every other candidate ever to win. Because winning a majority of votes--good enough for every man to lead in the race before her--is not enough for her.

Yeah, no double standard there.

Not to mention Sanders supporters referring to her as "The Queen" and "Her Royal Highness." Sanders supporters/protestors were calling her a 'whore' outside an event yesterday.

If you want another example of sexism, people find her less trustworthy than Bill. And Bill is twenty times more dishonest.



 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
42. I know nothing about that Twitter campaign...Is it all 20 something males?
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:47 PM
Jun 2016

But in general when a candidate is winning by a wide margin, and supporters of her opponent are fighting hard, one can legitimately criticize them..... or not. Depends on which candidate one supports.

But to reflexively make it all about gender rather than politics, the heat of campaigns, etc. is not okay....at least not in my book.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
47. did you not notice the part about the double standard?
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:54 PM
Jun 2016

No one's talked about taking Sanders into a back room and shooting him, for example.

It's never been thought of, let alone proferred by so-called progressives, to tell a man to step aside in favor of the women he's defeating. Complain about his policies yes, demand he sit down and shut up and defer to a woman? Nope.

But, plenty--and I mean plenty--of Sanders supporters saw nothing wrong with demanding that Hillary drop out and step aside in favor of Bernie.

Here's an example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511901753

Not to mention the talk that this is really Bernie's party now, as if Clinton and her voters don't exist.

Gee I wonder why?

that goes along with the attempts to delegitimize her win on the part of Sanders's most ardent supporters that sounds in the same venomous vitriol as the Trump/Tea crowd has applied to President Obama. the basic refusal to see his status and victories as legitimate

people tried to argue that it was just politics, and had nothing to do with race.

they've looked foolish in retrospect



 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
49. You want me to be totally honest?
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:03 PM
Jun 2016

I was among those in 2008 who desperately wanted Clinton to drop out sooner. I wanted to seeher in the rear view mirror. I also was a strong supporter of Obama and wanted him to be able to get on with the general post haste.

So yeah. I'm kind of hypocritical on that whole Bernie should just drop out now thing. I admitted this on another OP a few days ago.

But it was not because of gender. Then as now, I dislike the Clintons for a whole host of reasons. I thought it was time to be done with them as owners of the Democratic Party. Still do.

Would love to see a woman president. But not her.



 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
50. okay, do you admit that she has every right to declare victory if she's won the popular vote, the
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:05 PM
Jun 2016

pledged delegate vote, and has in hand a total number of delegates exceeding 2383?

That, regardless of what Bernie Sanders says, if she finishes ahead in all of those categories, she is the presumptive nominee?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
55. She has the right to do anything she wants....As does Bernie
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:14 PM
Jun 2016

Technically it is not over until the convention when all the delegates and SD's cast their vote.

Honestly, I have mixed feelings about Sanders taking it further after the last primary.

Part of me wants him to do what Clinton did in 2008 and smooth over feelings and move on, so we can beat the snot out of trump. And I'd also like to see Sanders show and receive some good will and respect, because he deserves it so far.

But part of me hates to see the Democrat Party revert back to being a subsidiary of Clinton Inc. with no opposition or challenge to their unquestioned power. I don't want them to assume they have a free pass to ignore about 40 percent of the participants in the primary. ....

Part of me wants to see Rock and Roll at the damn convention to shake this moribund political party up....and open it up.

That's my honest answer



 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
25. I'm a woman and Armstead can talk about whatever he wants.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:30 PM
Jun 2016

As a woman I'm interested in hearing all opinions. You don't get to censor anyone for me thank you very much.



cui bono

(19,926 posts)
28. No, you're wrong. I'm a woman and I appreciate the post.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:31 PM
Jun 2016

There's a lot of women on here - mostly the vocal self-proclaimed feminists - who have overplayed the gender card and it's sickening and harmful to women's fight for equality.

As a woman who sees that this behavior is making a mockery of women's real struggles I appreciate anyone who stands up for what is right. Doesn't matter who says it if it's correct.

And as man, if you feel that way, why are you even sticking your nose in this? I completely disagree with you, so why are you taking it upon yourself to speak for me?

.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
138. Hopefully, your next expressed opinion will be relevant and of substance.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 11:48 AM
Jun 2016

Hopefully, your next expressed opinion will be relevant and of substance.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
20. The people who overplayed the gender card need to be told this.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:28 PM
Jun 2016

The things they have called sexist are laughable and make a mockery of actual sexism and the real fight for equality that women face.

.

unapatriciated

(5,390 posts)
48. +2
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:58 PM
Jun 2016

also a woman and at the age of 64 I have seen my fair share of sexism and I have not seen it from Sanders.

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
57. +3
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:16 PM
Jun 2016

They've done enormous damage to the fight against sexism by crying sexism anytime criticism is leveled at Hillary. It's pathetic to watch.

 

coco77

(1,327 posts)
88. I had this argument last week..
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:12 PM
Jun 2016

with a Hillary supporter who doesn't seem to get it,this is why she is losing many votes among other things. They can't seem to see that everything isn't sexist and people get tired of hearing it.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
14. I'm 100% positive this place will label anyone sexist...
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:21 PM
Jun 2016

...if they have anything negative to say about the next Clinton Whitehouse. I'll probably be one of the first. It'll be sad.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
59. Democratic is defined as
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:16 PM
Jun 2016

1.
Of, relating to, or supporting democracy or its principles.
"democratic reforms"
..
OR
...

2.
of or relating to the Democratic Party.

Guess which term will apply...in this realm...come .....real...........soon?

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
16. The 'cry wolf' sexists are out in force on this thread. *Everything* critical of Hillary is "sexist"
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:23 PM
Jun 2016

Don't disagree with her, or you'll be "sexist", too. And maybe you'll be labeled a "racist", just for good measure.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
22. I'm sure there's a very reasonable cause for the double standards that get
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:28 PM
Jun 2016

applied to her. Just ask any dude.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
35. This 'dude' offers that she spent years claiming rights I must not have, according to her Goddy God
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:38 PM
Jun 2016

That is one huge and legislatively enforced double standard. If she so suffers from double standards why is she so willing to impose them upon others?

unapatriciated

(5,390 posts)
56. Yes she has faced double standards
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:15 PM
Jun 2016

but to accuse Sanders of running against her or staying in until the convention because she is a woman (not directed at you personally) is laughable. It demeans women and our real struggles.

I'm 64 and have faced a lot of sexism in my life, so when I hear comments like that it is truly sad and tells me that those who make them have never struggled. Like....

Being denied a decent job (forcing you to work two low paying jobs), housing, reasonable auto insurance rates (with a clean driving record) just because you are a divorced woman with children.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
60. there are always going to be bogus claims of bias and discrimination
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:18 PM
Jun 2016

just have to use common sense, and we men need to learn to not be reflexively dismissive

unapatriciated

(5,390 posts)
64. There has been way too many
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:14 PM
Jun 2016

of those bogus claims lately and from posters I used to respect. This Op was in response to some hateful claims, yes it came from a man but the message is still the same. Many women did respond to the poster who was the most vocal in calling Sanders a sexist and we were met with hatred and dismissal. To have someone of my own gender treat me as a lesser than, is far worse then if it came from a man. I'm tired of being called not a real Dem, a bagger or libertarian, not very unifying.

I know that Clinton supporters want this to be over now but it is not.

I support Sanders staying in until the convention because I and almost half of the party want a voice in our party platform.
Sanders has made a difference in the direction of our party and in my opinion that is a good thing.
It has forced Clinton to change a few of her views on things like the tpp, fracking and income inequality.

We would like to make sure that our party knows that we don't want to go back to business as usual.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
73. the primary contest will be over on Tuesday
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:13 PM
Jun 2016

I have faith that the media as well as the rest of the party will ignore Sanders's futile protestations that Clinton can't claim victory.

He doesn't get to tell her what she can and cannot do. That is not his place.

unapatriciated

(5,390 posts)
135. Not his place, but it is our place
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 11:42 AM
Jun 2016

as almost half of the party and he represents us. That is how to heal the party and win our support.

She will represent all of us not just Clinton supporters in the primary.

Who are you to tell me I have no rights to expect representation?

Compromise and input is done all the time in politics. Clinton did it with Gore and Obama did it with HRC.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
136. There is a difference between wanting representation and a seat at the table on one hand
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 11:46 AM
Jun 2016

and on the other trying to order the winner to not declare victory and celebrate.

By all means demand good policy planks on the platform.

But, don't tell her and her supporters they can't celebrate victory tonight.

FWIW, I won't be celebrating victory tonight--that comes in November. But others obviously will.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
66. Please use common sense.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:45 PM
Jun 2016

The idea that Sanders is not conceding before the convention because Clinton is a woman is ridiculous and utterly unsubstantiated.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
72. Sure, the reason he's not recognizing the will of the voters
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:09 PM
Jun 2016

is that he makes Ted Cruz look like a humble team player.

If he was a woman, he'd be compared to Glenn Close's character in Fatal Attraction.

"I'm not going to be ignored."

I'll enjoy his coming public humiliation.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
98. We will see from his tone this week whether he thinks he can tell Hillary what to do
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 06:41 AM
Jun 2016

If he thinks he's got the right to do that, despite her now being the new head of the party and presumptive nominee, not unfair to presume gender plays a role.

I think there's a chance he does the right thing and admits she won instead of acting like he's entitled to the win despite losing.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
100. I would bet on him conceding, but I could be wrong.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:24 AM
Jun 2016

Still, if he does not concede, it is unfair to presume gender plays a role.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
101. as I said, it will be tone.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:25 AM
Jun 2016

he can refuse to concede but do so without making a gigantic jackass of himself.

brooklynite

(93,851 posts)
24. Who has suggested the she shouldn't be subject to criticism as President?
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:29 PM
Jun 2016

Who knows...maybe Bernie Sanders will suggest she be primaried.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
34. Read some of the stuff being posted
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:37 PM
Jun 2016

"Bernie Sanders only decided to run because she is a female."

"Bernie Sanders is only fighting to the end because she is a woman."

C'mon you know better than that.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
29. I would expect to see most ardent Hillary's supporters follow the lead of Obama's
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:33 PM
Jun 2016

in which anyone who disagreed with any of President Obama's policies for any reason did because they were racist - didn't matter how many times they had voted for him -it was only because they were racist - the same will probably follow with Hillary should she win and disagreement is because she is a woman and no other reason will be considered

IMO both of these argument diminish both Obama and Hillary in whose favor they are supposedly being made-it does so by reducing them to either their race or gender as opposed to whole thinking human beings whose actions can be applauded or criticized without regard to their gender or racial identity

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
31. Should she get into the WH, they cannot
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:35 PM
Jun 2016

blame her impeachment on her gender, since her
husband was going through this as well.

I suppose they would call it a family event.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
33. People have walked on eggshells over the reason behind the double standard.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:36 PM
Jun 2016

But I assure you, it's objectively true that Clinton has a double standard against her. Whatever you want to assign it, I don't care.

But I'll say it. It's sexism. Trying to shut down discussion about it isn't going to change that.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
36. There is probably sexism involved. But I think the bigger factor is the both of them
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:41 PM
Jun 2016

Hillary and Bill have built up a polarizing and checkered identity

I think there would be more acceptance of a candidate who is a woman if she had a different history and persona, and a different spouse, and was not part of a couple trying to get around the spirit of the two-term limits on presidencies.

snot

(10,478 posts)
39. The complaints I and many others have about Hillary
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:42 PM
Jun 2016

are the same ones we had about Obama,
the same ones we had about Bush,
the same ones we had about Bill Clinton,
and the same ones we had about Reagan:

Don't put the foxes in charge of the henhouses. Tax the rich. Regulate unfair financial and commercial practices. Let government do what government does best: provide basic services in areas that tend to be natural monopolies (basic infrastructure & utilities, healthcare, and at least basic education). Etc.

I also happen to support racial, gender, and other kinds of equity; and I've had somewhat less to complain about in that area w.r.t. the Dem Prez's than the Repubs – but only somewhat less.

My positions have not changed based on who's in the White House, which candidate I support, or even what might benefit me personally.

Neither have Bernie's.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
40. Oh yes we can!
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:44 PM
Jun 2016

We've done it for the last 8 Years! Why Not for Hillary/Bill Third Term.

The whole Obama Admin. is "Fired Up and Ready to Go for Hillary."

WHA?

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
41. more to the point, kiboshig criticism on DU and DKos won't actually do anything in the real world
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 07:44 PM
Jun 2016

they may blame lefties and righties working together in conspiracy against the reasonable, virtuous, pragmatic middle, but in fact Trump can pound her weak points all he likes without our help

the Maginot Line was, indeed, impregnable

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
51. Political disagreement being shut down is in your imagination
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:07 PM
Jun 2016

And I assume fear of women? I really don't know just throwing stuff out there like a monkey flinging poo

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
52. Ask LGBT people how it went with Obama
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:10 PM
Jun 2016

To this day, you've people convinced the entire LGBT community is just a bunch of racists because we took him to task in his first term.

I don't care in the slightest. A few weeks ago, some racial maniac was all, "We ALL know about you!" Because I criticized the president. You're automatically racist.

Anyone who doesn't think a Clinton presidency won't be full of this, I don't know what to tell you. It happens now. Just glance through GDP. Any criticism will be distilled into sexism, one way or another.

There are just some people who only see the world through identity politics, and they are convinced you are either with them or you are a white, sexist oppressor.

There's literally nothing to be done for it. You can't argue people out of ideas they were never argued in to.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
61. It happened during the healthcasre debate
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:19 PM
Jun 2016

Anyone who criticized Obama's health plan was accused on "trying to undermine the First Black President."

Among otehr things, such misdirected deflections detract from the ability to point out actual instances of sexism, racism or otehr forms of bigotry.

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
62. They wore racism out
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:24 PM
Jun 2016

Disagreeing on policy was racism. Because Obama is black. Scratch that we'd be equally pissed at a white president for proffering the same ideas. No, you're all racists.

That was a big problem on DU from 2008-2012. It kind of became LGBT vs AA. Because LGBTers were like, "Uhm, no, none of this is ok." And the AA Forum decided, "You're all racist for not liking him!"

And that is why, to this day, I do not care even slightly what comes out of that forum. If they ever acknowledged or apologized for their shit, I'd be ok. But, no, we're all still racist, for reasons!

And now Bernie is also racist, for reasons. They can't figure out why. Just, because and shit.

And I remember how my LGBT family were subjected to the same shit from the same people.

No, don't care. Not even a little.

And it really doesn't help when my AA real life friends think they're dumb asses.

BuelahWitch

(9,083 posts)
97. I would argue it's gone on longer than 2012
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 05:49 AM
Jun 2016

And supposedly Bernie is disliked by AA members and Obama supporters on this site because he made a statement during the run up to 2012 that President Obama should be primaried. Which I totally agreed with, after the Cat Food Commission among other things. At the very least I was hoping he'd run as a Republican. But his supporters called people racist because we did not agree (and still do not agree with) his policies.

Il_Coniglietto

(373 posts)
53. Replace every single reference to sexism
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:11 PM
Jun 2016

Replace every single reference to sexism with the -ism of your choice and see how very wrong this argument is:

Folks the US can't shut down all political disagreement for 8 years simply because...

.....Barack Obama is black/Bernie Sanders is Jewish/John F. Kennedy is Catholic.

Not gonna happen. If he wants the job, he -- and his supporters -- are gonna have to take the lumps that go with the job.

He will not live in a race/religion encased bubble if he gets into the WH. The GOP is gonna go after him. Independents and Democrats who disagree with him are gonna go after him.

There will be reasoned criticism. There will also be things said that are not always nice.

There will be racist/anti-Semitic/anti-Catholic things said. There will also be critical things said that are not based in racism/anti-Semitism/anti-Catholicism.

If he sells us out with one or more policy, he does not get a free pass, just because we're afraid to say something that might have some vague connotation of race/religion in somebody's mind.

Sorry, but equality, means accepting the crap along with the benefits of equality.


No. This isn't acceptable in the above circumstances and it's not acceptable with regards to gender, ethnicities, other races, other religions, sexual orientation, gender identity, physical/mental abilities, etc.

If you have a problem with someone or their policies, fine. Attack those. But "vague connotations" of any of the above should not be tolerated by anyone who considers themself a progressive. Period.
 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
54. She's going to be in a protected bubble...here at DU
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:13 PM
Jun 2016

In a matter of days

And Trump wont be silenced on this issue..for dam sure

Meaning her getting in...isnt foregone

AuntPatsy

(9,904 posts)
63. I'm not sure you would ever be able to understand exactly why this is so wrong,
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:26 PM
Jun 2016

The old adage, walk a mile in my shoes could easily apply, I don't pretend to understand your fears but I would at least attempt to try to alleviate them or try harder to explain my own, we humans are a judgemental, self serving, egotistical lot for the most part, which we can use to either hinder or enlighten our future selves but the reality is our wiring is different and society only ensures it alters little, you cannot change that....

I wouldn't worry, if Hillary does get the Hot Seat I have no doubt she will not at least immediately begin acting like she knows what she is talking about and surround herself with only female advisors...men will still exist ....

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
71. Where have you been the past 20 years??
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:02 PM
Jun 2016

She has been relentlessly attacked for decades and she is still standing. She has no fear of any of that. Did you not see the 12 hour Benghazi interrogation?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
77. And your point is.....?
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:34 PM
Jun 2016

It's not so much her but those who insist that she cannot be criticized, or behave or speak in any way that might be remotely interpreted as sexism. (Alyhjough shye dos engage in that sometimes too.)

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
78. Others have said it
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:36 PM
Jun 2016

but I expect this to be Nixonian, enemies lists and all. On the bright side, I expect Trump to be Mussolini, or Putin like,, Mr, Putin also has enemies lists.

It will not quiet down, but it will be dead quiet here.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
80. I well remember the" I would have liked Hillary had she remained a senator post"
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:51 PM
Jun 2016

so spare me. That post was one of the worst, most sexists posts here...so don't tell us what to do... Another condescending post telling women how to respond to sexism-something you know nothing about..how not surprising.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
108. Yeah let's forget the many admittedly sexist posts they've already treated us too....
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:20 AM
Jun 2016

Now we get lectures how it's not ALL sexist. This genius needed some coffee and some spellcheck, for starters.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
111. My eyesight is bad. Forgive me for typos.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:31 AM
Jun 2016

And if you think the OP is foolish, I assume you agree with those posts that have said the only reason that Sanders decided to run for the nomination is because Hillary is a woman.

Or that the only reason he has been fighting so hard in the final stage is because he can't stand the thought of losing to a woman.

If you believe that kind of hogwash, then I'm not the only one whose IQ can be questioned.



Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
81. I well remember "I would have liked Hillary had she remained a senator"
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:53 PM
Jun 2016

I see you have written another condescending post which is intended to insult women...What would you know of sexism...at least the receiving part that is.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
92. I always assumed that would be the case -- Democracy has become a Kabuki Dance
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 03:05 AM
Jun 2016

But I harbored hope that the rigid corporatist yuppie template that has been foisted on the Democratic party for the last 30 years might finally be broken this time.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
86. Being female is just one of her many presumed privileges.
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:08 PM
Jun 2016

She's one of the most privileged and in your face about it people to ever run for President. The fact that she pretends to not be privileged makes her about as nauseating as they come.

tom-servo

(185 posts)
87. I think having a woman president would bring...
Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:11 PM
Jun 2016

... out a lot of sexism and it would be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
96. I don't expect you to understand how posting something like this 8 years ago...
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 04:17 AM
Jun 2016

... replacing Clinton with Obama and sexism with racism would have been inappropriate.

I'm sure some people would have "liked" Obama better if he remained a Senator, too. But it's actually unsurprising. As wrong as it was for early suffragettes to demean equal voting for all just because they wanted it for themselves, intersectionality in discussing how privilege manifests explain why women of color end up with the deck stacked against them far more than white women or black men -- that both isms exist. But people far more easily can suggest gender means actual differences that matter because there are some physical differences that are pretty significant, vs there being both black men and black women.

What's suprising is seeing it openly preached on DU.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
109. Sorry, but you are doing what I am referring to
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:24 AM
Jun 2016

yeah these issues are complex, and bias does factor in.

But Democrats have not exactly been chomping at the bit to break either of those those barriers for the WH, just to break barriers, even in its recent history.

Remember Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's runs, for example? They would have been historic, but Democrats were not exactly lining up to support them as the racial barrier breakers. It was not totally (and I use that word deliberately) because of some ingrained racial bias. It was because Democrats did not think they were the best candidates or potential presidents.

Obama was able to overcome that because he was recognized by a majority as the best candidate and President.

Similarly, there are many Democrats today who would love to see a woman break the gender barrier to the WH. But they do not think that Clinton is the best choice.

Since she is about to win the nomination this time, obviously a majority seems to believe she is the best candidate. Okay fine. But to dismiss the opinions of (close to half) of primary voters who do not believe that as due to gender is incorrect.

And that same will apply to her performance if she does win the WH. Not all criticism will have roots in gender bias.

But, as the dialogue here during the primary indicates, there are some who will try to shoot down legitimate criticisms and opposition to her as gender based. That is what I am referring to.




moriah

(8,311 posts)
114. No, you have said flat out you think she's overstepping "her place".
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 12:57 PM
Jun 2016

On numerous occasions, in numerous contexts, that make you come across like "her place" was at home baking cookies, keeping Bill satisfied (failure to do so being "enabling" his affairs), and certainly not in politics at all.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
115. Everyone has their "place" ....You are inaccuratly characterizing what I said.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 01:06 PM
Jun 2016

Just to use myself as an example.

I create and produce something for a living. I am really good at it. I don't mean to sound immodest, but all of the feedback and results do indicate that I have a talent and skill for what I do.

But I would be lousy at managing what I do. I produce something. That's what I am good at. But if I were to take a step up the ladder and try to be a manger of it, I'd fail miserably, because that is not my skill set.

So I have my "place" and I recognize that. It has nothing to do with my gender, age, color or anything other than my natural talents and limitations.

I happen to think -- and yeah it is my opinion -- that Clinton has great gifts that could have made her a formidable leader in the Senate. If she had stayed with that, she could have ultimately been the equivalent of a Ted Kennedy

....But for a variety of reasons, I do not believe she has the qualities necessary to be an effective president or driver of the Democratic Party. That is true of most politicians, male and female.

I don't care if you agree or disagree with my opinion on that. But don't misrepresent it.





moriah

(8,311 posts)
121. And millions who voted for her for President thought her place was very different
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 01:34 PM
Jun 2016

Which makes your opinion about her "place" not something I am too worried about.

I'm trying to make you aware of how you sound, though, not that I actually believe you think all women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
122. Place was originally a bad use of words.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 01:42 PM
Jun 2016

Consider me suitably chastised for a clumsy use of language -- but unrepentant in my belief about her suitability to be the nominee or president.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
129. Understood on the unrepentance. Also unrepentant here for pointing out...
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 03:09 PM
Jun 2016

... that even if you aren't basing your actual opinions on sexist-influenced thinking, that others are, and none of them are easily going to admit that their word choices weren't clumsy, but deliberate.

Like those accusing her of "enabling" her husband's affairs in the same breaths they're caling her a lesbian and plugging books conveniently timed to publish in November. And those two authors are female, one accusing Bill of "putting on her frilly nightie and dancing playing the sax" during their affairs, blaming Hillary for them more because she allegedly wasn't satisfying his sexual needs than any reactions to learning about them.

seaglass

(8,170 posts)
99. Come on Armstead, you're smarter than this. Hillary has faced criticism for 30 years and she always
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 07:16 AM
Jun 2016

gets back up. All presidents are criticized, no one expects otherwise.

But if you think women are going to sit down and shut up when they are accused of voting with their vaginas or when Hillary is called a whore or a c*nt because someone disagrees with policy - sorry that is not going to happen.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
103. You are truly the only person I have seen make that initial argument.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:30 AM
Jun 2016

I know this will garner you a lot of street cred with the Sanders crowd but it is literally based of a false meme.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
105. Read the comments....There are people who agree
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:01 AM
Jun 2016

Of course I'm called a dog by some for saying it too, but a lot of people agree with it.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
107. Not one outside of yourself. You are the only one.
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:03 AM
Jun 2016

"Folks the US can't shut down all political disagreement for 8 years simply because Hillary Clinton is female."


 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
110. All those "I agrees" don't exist?
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:26 AM
Jun 2016

Is that like the larger primary, where the close to half of voters who have voted for Sanders don't exist?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
123. It was the same with President Obama
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 01:43 PM
Jun 2016

and there are times we called out what we considered racism. One of the main factors was holding him to a higher standard.

I'm sure there will be "criticism" based on sexism too.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
124. Disagreeing with Obama's healthcare policies, for example, was not racism
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 01:45 PM
Jun 2016

Democrats who disagreed with his handling of that issue because they wanted to see better and affordable coverage for everyone was not racism. But that accusation was tossed around to stifle that debate at the time.

That's the kind of thing I am referring to.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
125. I don't think anyone said that
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 01:57 PM
Jun 2016

To me it was asking for his college transcripts when others had not had to do it, yelling "you lie" at the President, never done before, things like that - Birthers were clearly going on racism as they never required any other candidate to produce a birth certificate. The hysterical claims that he is a Muslim, nothing that would be said of white candidates.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
127. It was said frequently
Mon Jun 6, 2016, 02:06 PM
Jun 2016

I am not referring to things like the birthers, and the obvious racist behavior and disrespect.

But too often, any disagreement or criticism of him on policy or his performance by Dems was met with a variation of "You are opposing the first black president" from otehr Dems.

There's a big difference.

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