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MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 09:44 AM Jun 2016

Deciphering some complaints about the CA Primary.

Question: Some complained that they went to vote, but their names weren't on the rolls at the polling place. In one case, it was said that an entire apartment building wasn't on the rolls.

Answer: Wrong polling place. Precincts are designed to all have approximately the same number of voters. The nearest polling place to where you live might not be the polling place for your precinct. Apartment buildings may well not be in the same precinct as housing on the opposite side of the street. Voters need to pay attention to information about polling places and what precinct they live in. That information is readily available on the internet, and mailings to registered voters have the information about your polling place.

Question: Why didn't voters registered as No Party Preference (NPP) automatically get a ballot with the Democratic Primary candidates on it?

Answer: NPP registrants had four ballots available to them. One, the default, is a non-partisan ballot with no presidential primary. Registrants had to select one of three other presidential primary ballots by party. If they wanted the Democratic Party ballot, they had to ask for it, whether they voted by mail or at the polling place. The County Clerk has no way of knowing what party you want to vote in if you registered with No Party Preference. They are not mind readers.

Question: Why haven't all of the ballots been counted yet in California?

Answer: There are many reasons. Late arriving mailed ballots and provisional ballots are not always counted on election day. Provisional ballots, for example, have to be checked individually to make sure the voter is legitimately registered. They will all be counted before the election is certified. The numbers in the election may well change. This happens in every election, but those late-counted ballots rarely make any difference, since they tend to reflect the percentages of already-counted ballots. The same thing happens in every state.
27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Deciphering some complaints about the CA Primary. (Original Post) MineralMan Jun 2016 OP
But Bernie and his followers are certain that a few hundred thousand votes are missing tonyt53 Jun 2016 #1
That seems very doubtful to me. MineralMan Jun 2016 #3
training... HumanityExperiment Jun 2016 #2
One poll-worker's anecdotal account from one MineralMan Jun 2016 #17
trained the trainers... HumanityExperiment Jun 2016 #20
Well, if it's like the system here in Minnesota, poll-worker training MineralMan Jun 2016 #21
yet the anecdotal example stands... HumanityExperiment Jun 2016 #27
Good post. yardwork Jun 2016 #4
Thanks. There are always anecdotal complaints about elections. MineralMan Jun 2016 #5
I hope that people new to politics will volunteer and get involved. yardwork Jun 2016 #7
Yes. I do too. MineralMan Jun 2016 #14
Thanks for be an election worker. LiberalFighter Jun 2016 #15
Yup. It's a long day with lousy pay and poll-workers face a lot of MineralMan Jun 2016 #22
It's been a campaign to de-legitimize any Clinton win sufrommich Jun 2016 #6
Yes, well, if that's true, it didn't work. MineralMan Jun 2016 #9
KNR Thank you! Lucinda Jun 2016 #8
Well, I only dealt with three questions. MineralMan Jun 2016 #11
The majority of Californians vote by mail. They must be scanned in. All California votes require a Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #10
Yup. Elections are complicated and take time to tabulate. MineralMan Jun 2016 #13
To complain is human. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #16
K&R mcar Jun 2016 #12
If you decode the complaints, they say "Bernie didn't win" NT geek tragedy Jun 2016 #18
Yes, apparently. MineralMan Jun 2016 #19
I'd read where people were questioning why they had to show ID for a provisional ballot... NurseJackie Jun 2016 #23
Provisional ballots require identification to prevent MineralMan Jun 2016 #24
Exactly! I guess they just weren't thinking things through. NurseJackie Jun 2016 #25
Basic civics class stuff. I listened in class. MineralMan Jun 2016 #26

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
3. That seems very doubtful to me.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 09:47 AM
Jun 2016

California is pretty good about its handling of elections. A few thousand ballots, maybe, but not hundreds of thousands.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
17. One poll-worker's anecdotal account from one
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 10:30 AM
Jun 2016

county in California, and from May 18. The trainer gave the wrong information. It was reported, and the correct information given to that poll-worker and others.

It was not indicative of statewide policies or training. One anecdotal account from one county do not represent how California poll-workers were trained in general. But you knew that, I'm sure.

 

HumanityExperiment

(1,442 posts)
20. trained the trainers...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 10:34 AM
Jun 2016

who trained the trainer? This 'training' and perception was created somewhere so who trained the trainer?

but I'm sure you already thought about that, I'm sure

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
21. Well, if it's like the system here in Minnesota, poll-worker training
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 10:40 AM
Jun 2016

is a haphazard sort of thing. The trainers are usually either county clerk's office employees or people who have been through the training before. There's a lot of reliance on the trainees reading the printed material, as well.

Occasionally, a trainer gets something wrong or a trainee misunderstands the training. One trainee. One county. Corrected. Your example is not a good one and is just that single trainee's account of something.

Yet, people believed that it was some sort of statewide attempt to warp the results for Clinton. What a long stretch of logic.

The NPP registration thing has been very confused, all around. I explained it in my OP. That's how it actually worked in precinct after precinct in California.

 

HumanityExperiment

(1,442 posts)
27. yet the anecdotal example stands...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 12:01 PM
Jun 2016

'a trainer gets something wrong'... glad that anecdotal example had an individual smart enough to call the trainer out, how that trainer got trained still warrants investigation, odd you don't mention or propose that

'Your example is not a good one and is just that single trainee's account of something.' I see, so if it's only a single instance you can disregard... NOTED

'Yet, people believed that it was some sort of statewide attempt to warp the results for Clinton. What a long stretch of logic.' again, NOTED that you regard this as something that shouldn't be investigated at all

'The NPP registration thing has been very confused, all around. I explained it in my OP' NO you didn't, you stated 'NPP registrants had four ballots available to them. One, the default, is a non-partisan ballot with no presidential primary. Registrants had to select one of three other presidential primary ballots by party. If they wanted the Democratic Party ballot, they had to ask for it, whether they voted by mail or at the polling place. The County Clerk has no way of knowing what party you want to vote in if you registered with No Party Preference. They are not mind readers.

the video clearly mentions that they were trained otherwise, if someone didn't push back that 'training' would stand... this is your misstep, your deflection is noted yet again

yardwork

(61,417 posts)
4. Good post.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 09:50 AM
Jun 2016

Personally, I believe that registered Democrats have the right to choose the Democrats' candidates.

I'm not a fan of allowing people to cross party lines to interfere with other parties' primaries.

If people feel very strongly about the Democratic Party's choice of candidates, then why don't they register as Democrats? It's easy to join.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
5. Thanks. There are always anecdotal complaints about elections.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 09:54 AM
Jun 2016

Generally, those are reported without any fact-checking, and then never followed up.

I've been a poll-worker many times, and it's amazing what happens at the polling place. People show up who live nowhere near that precinct and insist that they should be able to vote. Sometimes, poll-workers tell a voter who is at the wrong precinct where the correct polling place is and get cursed at for their help.

It's a real education to sit behind those polling place tables. I highly recommend it to people.

LiberalFighter

(50,499 posts)
15. Thanks for be an election worker.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 10:06 AM
Jun 2016

We spend two months getting positions filled in our county. And then deal with people cancelling. We had 266 positions to fill and there were 45 cancellations that we had to refill. 16 of them were the night before or election day.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
22. Yup. It's a long day with lousy pay and poll-workers face a lot of
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:02 AM
Jun 2016

disgruntled and verbally combative people during their day. On the other hand, many voters also thank them for working the polls. I always do.

They get asked political questions they're not allowed to answer.

They get argued with about the ballots.

They have people who insist they explain how the ballot is a secret one, since they have to get signatures on the voter logs.

They have to deal with people who have mis-marked their ballots, which then fail to scan property and go through an exacting process to void that ballot and issue a new one. Typically the person who screwed up marking the ballot whines about the delay.

If turnout is good, people complain about the lines. If it is bad, people whine about voter suppression.

People start political arguments in the polling place and get angry when told that's not allowed.

People campaign inside the polling place and get angry when told they can't do that.

There's always something.

Thanks should go to every poll-worker who puts up with all that and helps people vote.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
9. Yes, well, if that's true, it didn't work.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 09:59 AM
Jun 2016

Clinton's win is substantial and nationwide. The numbers show the results, as always. Were there problems with the elections? Sure. There always are problems. Those problems are insignificant to the results, though. Too few voters have problems to change the election.

Bottom line is that Hillary Clinton has way more than the majority of pledged delegates. She won.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
11. Well, I only dealt with three questions.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 10:00 AM
Jun 2016

There are others, but I just dealt with three from the California primary.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
10. The majority of Californians vote by mail. They must be scanned in. All California votes require a
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 09:59 AM
Jun 2016

a paper trail.

Most precincts use paper ballots that are gathered together at a central area and then scanned into a tabulator. These mus be scanned in by hand with witnesses. It is a very labor intensive process.

Even districts that use legacy computer systems where you vote on the screen are required to provide a paper copy.

One advantage to voting on a screen and tabulating the votes in real time is that we get timely reports for elections. The bad thing about computer touchscreens is that nobody trusts them.

Go figure.

California is a big state, and it takes time to count all the votes. When provisional ballots are used, they must be checked to make sure that the vote is valid, which takes more time.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
13. Yup. Elections are complicated and take time to tabulate.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 10:03 AM
Jun 2016

It's amazing how quickly we get results today. I remember elections in the 50s and 60s when it took a couple of days to get all precincts counted. We just had to wait patiently.

The first election in which I watched the results on TV had a news guy writing numbers on a chalkboard called in from the local county clerk's office. Now, we can watch them for ourselves online as they are reported to state election offices.

Still, we complain. We will always complain, I suppose.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
19. Yes, apparently.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 10:33 AM
Jun 2016

However, those complaints really had no material effect on the election. If the election had gone perfectly for every voter, Bernie still wouldn't have won. Hillary won, and would have in any case.

Remember the Kentucky re-canvass of election results statewide. Bernie's campaign insisted on it, even though there were only one or two pledged delegates at stake. The re-canvass, done at KY taxpayer's expense, produced no change whatever in the results. The time and money was wasted and nothing changed.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
23. I'd read where people were questioning why they had to show ID for a provisional ballot...
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:05 AM
Jun 2016

... and were (presumably) upset or concerned about that.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
24. Provisional ballots require identification to prevent
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:07 AM
Jun 2016

just anyone from coming in and demanding one. To register to vote, identification of some kind and proof of residence are required, too. For pete's sake.

In Minnesota, we have same-day registration. ID and proof of residence is required for that, but not for voting. Same thing.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
26. Basic civics class stuff. I listened in class.
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 11:16 AM
Jun 2016

Lots of folks didn't, I guess. I don't even know if they teach that stuff any more. They should.

The amount of misinformation and misinterpretation I see, even on a political website like DU, is shocking.

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