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Sun Jul 10, 2016, 10:43 AM

 

Clinton Delegates holding back Progressive Agenda

The Dem Platform has been a mixed bag so far with Hillary's Delegates voting against many Progressive amendments including:

Language against the TPP
Single Payer Healthcare
Specific Language on a Carbon Tax
Revolving Door amendment to keep bankers from occupying regulation positions in government
Ban on Fracking



Discussions are still under way so there could be more to add to this list before the weekend is over, but it's pretty clear who the real Progressives are in that room.

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Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply Clinton Delegates holding back Progressive Agenda (Original post)
HerbChestnut Jul 2016 OP
Hoyt Jul 2016 #1
Hortensis Jul 2016 #2
Android3.14 Jul 2016 #3
Hortensis Jul 2016 #7
Android3.14 Jul 2016 #12
charlyvi Jul 2016 #8
Android3.14 Jul 2016 #9
Hortensis Jul 2016 #19
politicaljunkie41910 Jul 2016 #42
KMOD Jul 2016 #11
DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #23
stopbush Jul 2016 #36
DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #38
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #4
DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #6
Mika Jul 2016 #25
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #28
Mika Jul 2016 #29
LineLineLineLineLineReply .
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #31
liberal N proud Jul 2016 #5
Android3.14 Jul 2016 #16
riversedge Jul 2016 #18
liberal N proud Jul 2016 #40
NorthCarolina Jul 2016 #10
George Eliot Jul 2016 #14
onecaliberal Jul 2016 #24
annavictorious Jul 2016 #27
riversedge Jul 2016 #13
George Eliot Jul 2016 #15
riversedge Jul 2016 #17
BlueCaliDem Jul 2016 #21
BlueCaliDem Jul 2016 #20
HerbChestnut Jul 2016 #22
wyldwolf Jul 2016 #26
CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #30
mblock Jul 2016 #32
mcar Jul 2016 #33
annavictorious Jul 2016 #34
OnDoutside Jul 2016 #35
SaschaHM Jul 2016 #39
auntpurl Jul 2016 #37
Thinkingabout Jul 2016 #41

Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 10:47 AM

1. As to Healthcare -- there is a Public Option in the platform. That's the best way to single payer at

this point.

Most of the others are a little more nuanced than some people care to believe. I like the last thing Clinton said on Fracking -- basically there needs to be some big changes going forward.

I don't think it's a good idea to come out flatly against TPP. Carbon Tax is fine with me. Can't remember the others, but the platform is not the end all. Plenty of good legislation is backed during the term that is not in the platform.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 10:52 AM

2. "Real" progressives? Is there some other

litmus than stamping a B on one's forehead for Bernie? I am a real progressive, not a "real" progressive, and your post is offensive.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:03 AM

3. Hmmmm. I wonder who is being offensive?

 

The OP points out a truth. If the facts are in error, then please argue on that basis. Hillary, if she has leadership qualities, is calling the shots for the delegates.

ipso facto.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:23 AM

7. But not a "real" progessive.

We all know that's considered an insult by "real" progressives. Not a truth, an insult. You really should respect others when they explain that they consider themselves progressive. Backing progressive government actions has nothing to do with joining a "real" team and proudly pointing to their "real" label.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:37 AM

12. Pointing out hypocrisy is a responsibility

 

Not an insult.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:24 AM

8. If she has leadership qualities?

Now who's being offensive? To claim one has to support every part of Sanders' agenda or one is not a progressive is offensive, and wrong. Bernie's campaign claims he got 80% of what he wanted in the platform. That's an outstanding achievement. Apparently not enough for some the losing candidate's supporters, though.

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Response to charlyvi (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:31 AM

9. Missing the point

 

If Hillary is a leader of her delegates, then she is responsible for the roadblocks. Progressives are against the TPP, support Single Payer Healthcare and a Carbon Tax, believe corporate money has too much influence in government and that fracking is just another symptom of our dependence on the crack cocaine of oil.

Either criticize the premise, or criticize the reasoning. Any insult you take from this is your own responsibility.

That's the point.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:49 AM

19. Imo, this demonstrates how some end up feeling

marginalized, unrepresented, and ineffective. If you prefer to view the new leader of the Democratic Party as "roadblocking" progressivism, though, converting real progress into imagined failure, that has to be your problem.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 10:27 PM

42. It's her Party and that fact is not even in question. Look, Bernie has not right to shove his agenda

down our throats. This Platform is already being referred to as the Democratic Socialist's Party's agenda by RWers. And before someone reports me by saying that I'm using RW talking points. That is what is being said, so to be in denial won't make it go away. All Democrats are not in safe districts like Bernie's utopia of Vermont. A state which by the way whose Single Payer System went belly up recently because there was no way their Progressive Governor could make the numbers work out. American's in general like their change in small bites. They do not like their change shoved down their throats and everytime the Dems seemed to make little gains into a progressive agenda, they get voted out of office. Like after the ACA was passed, we lost the House and some Senate seats. In 2014 we lost the Senate majority. We have a chance to gain back the Senate and also pick up some House seats. If we go too fast too soon, it will turn off some Independents and some of the Republicans who are not planning on voting for Trump and we could find Trump in the White House, because they think Bernie's Democratic Socialist agenda is too radical, and then we'd have nothing.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:34 AM

11. Yup.

 

The insults are getting old.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:53 AM

23. Agree with you Hortensis

getting really tired of it too

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Response to DemonGoddess (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 01:35 PM

36. Agreed. Especially as the primaries proved that the ultra-progressive wing

of the party is realitively small, and is incapable of rallying support from the non-ultra progressive segments of the party for either their agenda or their candidates.

It's a big tent. Ultra- progressives have a seat at the table, but to imagine they own the table and dictate the agenda is laughable.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #36)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 01:38 PM

38. Exactly

We all get to use that "c" word ya know. COMPROMISE.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:13 AM

4. "We got 80% of what we wanted in this platform"--Sanders campaign

 

1) that means it's a progressive document;

2) more than fair to the candidate who did not win

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:20 AM

6. thank you for pointing that out. I was just about to.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:01 PM

25. The greater the percentage, the more Berners that will vote for her...

 

... so, that puts the onus upon the candidate who wants to win in the GE.




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Response to Mika (Reply #25)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:11 PM

28. anytime someone gets 80% of what they want in politics

 

they've done very well for themselves

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #28)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:14 PM

29. They've done well for all of us.

 




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Response to Mika (Reply #29)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:16 PM

31. .

 

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:18 AM

5. Translated as Bernie didn't get everything he wanted

Yet another post said he got 80% of everything.

"We got 80% of what we wanted in this platform,"--Sanders campaign

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512247607

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:45 AM

16. Your post reminds me of the 1866 Civil Rights Act

 

The black population became citizens, but missed out on the vote. Should they have been satisfied?

Or the 15th Amendment giving black men the right to vote, but not women. Should black women have been satisfied?

The idea that 80% of a platform is enough represents a conservative simplistic black-and-white view of a complex system. One might as well be happy if only six of eight of the pistons in a car were firing.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:48 AM

18. The OP is about the platform. You are comparing apples to bread. bye

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 01:46 PM

40. Now that's a stretch

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:33 AM

10. "Progressive" for many politicians is nothing more than a mask to be worn during a campaign season.

 

How many times to we have to be witness to that fact before people wake up and smell the coffee?

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Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:40 AM

14. Exactly. Bernie only senator in Prog Caucus

The rest proclaim the label but do not walk the walk.

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Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:53 AM

24. Apparently never. We just blew our best chance in a lifetime

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #24)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:09 PM

27. Sanders blew out best chance in a lifetime

 

when he caved and folded in 2009 during the ACA debate.
Sanders gave up, broke his promise, voted yes, and went home to Vermont for a nice long holiday.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:40 AM

13. We are all real Progressives when we support the Dem. Presumptive Nominee.




...........Discussions are still under way so there could be more to add to this list before the weekend is over, but it's pretty clear who the real Progressives are in that room.
2

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Response to riversedge (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:42 AM

15. So, "progressive" doesn't mean anything?

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:46 AM

17. Any progressive is real in my book.

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Response to George Eliot (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:51 AM

21. Well, it doesn't mean being uncompromising, that's for sure. eom

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Response to riversedge (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:51 AM

20. Thank you! So-called Progressives fundamentally ignore the root word in "progressive", which is

PROGRESS.

noun prog·ress ˈprä-grəs, -ˌgres, US also & British usually ˈprō-ˌgres

Simple Definition of progress

: movement forward or toward a place

: the process of improving or developing something over a period of time

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/progress


Also, a Progressive is someone who doesn't demand that people see it their way and their way only, but who is open to compromise in order to keep things moving forward to arrive at a stated goal eventually.

Why is this so hard for some "progressives" to understand?

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Response to riversedge (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 11:52 AM

22. Sorry, disagree with that.

 

Just because someone has a 'D' next to their name doesn't mean that person is a Progressive.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:07 PM

26. You're under the mistaken impression...

... that all (or even most) Democrats are concerned about a "progressive" agenda.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:15 PM

30. If it's as all or nothing, nothing is all you ever get. If you pay attention, you see the truth.

 

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:18 PM

32. Seriously?

Isn't it better to have 80% or have Trump! SMH

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:22 PM

33. Sanders campaign says they got 80% of what they wanted in the platform

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:22 PM

34. When you capitalize the "p" in progressive

 

It becomes the name of a specific political group or party.
The Democrats passed a Democratic agenda.
The Democrats passed a progressive agenda.

People who self identify as Progressives (as opposed to Democrats) are unhappy with some of the planks of the Democratic platform. Maybe they should do the hard work of re-forming an actual Progressive party and remake it in their own image.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:24 PM

35. Do "hardline" progressives have a poor understanding of democracy ? It seems odd that a side loses

an election, but are mystified why they don't get everything their way ?

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 01:45 PM

39. I mean...

they're solution to defeating TPP isn't convincing folks not to vote for it, it's trying to keep it from coming up for a vote at. all.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 01:37 PM

37. I'm very surprised this survived a jury.

The TOS is very clear; under "No Divisive Group Attacks":

Do not imply that they are fake Democrats, fake progressives, conservatives, right-wingers, Republicans, or the like.


It's literally word for word.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 04:53 PM

41. Hillary Clinton, a progressive who gets things done.

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