2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWe have to reach out to young bernie supporters who might stay home
I honestly im not worried about the older bernie supporters. i think as this election goes a long and they see the potential that holy shit trump could become president. they will fall in line. Expect a lot of threads in the next few months that start with " i was a bernie supporter but .."
BUT
talking to a few young bernie supporters at my store. they seem militant in there hate for hillary. If a large number of young folks that voted for obama stay home for hillary. That might make the election a lot closer then it has to be. I think we have to reach out to the young bernie voters and explain to them. hillary might not be at the top of your list. but how would you like to be serving on the front lines of a nuclear war with some country that insulted trump and he pushed the red button. i know it sounds dramatic but this egomaniac cannot be allowed near nuclear buttons.
BeyondGeography
(39,284 posts)If not, there are many other priorities.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)He spent a lot of time trying to get them and they never showed. We'd be better going after adult undecideds.
agnostic102
(198 posts)the young voters came out in droves for obama.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts).
Response to tallahasseedem (Reply #2)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Squinch
(50,774 posts)The older the cohort, the more of them vote. No matter who is running, no matter what year you talk about.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)A lot of my friends feel like there's no point, because politicians don't listen to us. Which they don't, because we vote less reliably than older voters. So it's a lot easier politically for them to cut college aid or raise student loan rates than to touch social security. It's a vicious cycle when you think about it.
DLCWIdem
(1,558 posts)It is in the platform for god sake. The problem is the kids are basing thier vote on personality. He (Bernie) is more authentic. IMO I think that means she isn't hip. They won't be happy because she is not Bernie. Well she is not going to morph into Bernie. In fact, both Bernie and Hill had college financial plans, but thekids don't listen to her. They don't listen to many politicians unless the pitician is "hip".
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)The basic problem in reaching the disappointed committed Sanders supporters is trying to change the minds of people who have accepted a politician as belonging to or serving 'them'.
Younger people, and certainly those who identify as 'independents', don't have as strong (if any) personal history that puts "us" under the umbrella of party membership. People whose only focus is on only the winning of the nomination, can't help but see a primary loss as apocalyptic to their cause.
On the other hand identity as a person with a long history with the democratic party makes it easier to bridge the disappointments and to acknowledge the success of a primary campaign. It's possible for such Sanders supporters, a group that I believe actually includes Bernie and Jane Sanders, to see within the loss, many elements of progress toward their mission of reformation and re-energizing the populist left of the party.
Blatant coup-counting which tends to show up on highly partisan social media tends to alienate. It's sort of like the curdling effect of too much heat on eggs when you are making a custard or Hollandaise. As much as the 'young radicals' are annoying they still need to be handled with care or the party will be divided into scrambled eggs and milk.
liberal N proud
(60,302 posts)Show them other horrors we can look forward to if Trump wins.
agnostic102
(198 posts)NT
Stuart G
(38,365 posts)glennward
(989 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)A lot of them didn't show up at the polls, which is more the reason why he lost than anything DWS did. People were bashing Hillary for going after the moderate Republican/Never Trump vote. But, she's not doing it as part of some nefarious plan to move to the right, as many of them insinuated. She's doing it because she needs votes to win, and we can't count on millenials to show up on election day. If they couldn't show up and vote for a guy they were supposedly massively enthusiastic about, why trust them to show up in November?
Renaissance Man
(669 posts)All of the above suggestions are attempting to appeal to their fear.
None of these suggestions are attempting to appeal to their sense of optimism. "Trump's going to have you on the front lines of a nuclear war" is not going to cut it.
... and therein lies the problems with traditional triangulated campaigns.
agnostic102
(198 posts)the problem is i truly believe that. i mean ask your self this. doesnt it send a chill down your spine having trump near the nuclear button?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)diet of horror, slash, and violent flicks. Check out their social media for confirmation on that.
They're programmed to respond to fear and fear only and any message should include that ingredient or they'll just ignore it.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--psychologically speaking--to feel LESS fear about reality.
The problem is that now reality is scarier than movies.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I know that fear is what gets their (i.e., young people) juices flowing, as well as slasher movies and violent movies. They're desensitized and need ever more to get their adrenaline moving, so using the terrifying possibilities of bloody WW III and a draft might get them to look up from their smartphone long enough to vote against DumbTrump.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I don't like generational division. Your condescension doesn't serve the Democratic party well.
Scare tactics will not work on this generation of smart young Americans. Waste of time.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)You might not like generational division, but it's the way it is. I deal with 41 young people, a group I've formed, in order to educate and vote for Democrats. I'm speaking out of hands-on experience, and it's served the Democratic Party pretty well since they're educated enough to inform their families and friends why California had to go Democratic - in 2010 - when the rest of the country went RED. In turn, that turned our $47 billion deficit into an $11 billion surplus - and growing. So I can proudly say I serve my Party well. But thanks, anyway, for your condescending reply.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)and you say that fear is what drives them?
If that were true they'd be voting for Trump.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)adrenaline going. DumbTrump is who they FEAR, making their motivation to vote for Hillary Clinton extremely strong. You appear to be under the misunderstanding that they would run toward what they fear when it's actually the opposite.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)of what they perceive as the alternative.
Most Americans seem to operate more out of fear than anything else. All that disaster television.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)fear. No true Liberal, Progressive, or even the most conservative Democrat is that insane.
Most Americans seem to operate more out of fear than anything else. All that disaster television.
Couldn't agree with you more!
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)"true liberal" progressives, or conserva Dems don't operate out of fear.
I said "Most Americans operate out of fear" and you did agree. That includes many, many Democrats.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)This sub-thread was about what motivates young voters. I claim fear does, and that fear would drive them AWAY from the Dummie-Don. You claim it would drive them toward him because you appear to claim that Hillary is worse than he is: your remark, that the reality is now scarier than movies and your position that, if I was right about the fear thing, "they'd be voting for Trump", alludes to that position.
So, unless you're making the case that Hillary is worse than DumbTrump, I don't see how you can disagree with my position. Is that what you're doing, ghost? Making the case that Hillary is worse than DumbTrump? If so, you're on the wrong board.
Also, I never claimed that Liberal, Progressives, and the most conservative Democrats don't operate out of fear. I claim that they aren't insane enough to vote for DumbTrump. Please keep things in perspective.
I will finish by repeating again...nice try but NO sale.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)nailed it.
We do have a problem with young especially--and older people who have been taken for granted. They want change, not same old, same old. These people who want a more positive future picture. They sense lies and empty promises a mile away.
For the party to ignore that urge from so many is downright foolish. There is still time.
liberalmuse
(18,670 posts)So far, I know 5 Bernie supporters (close friends and family) who will either write him in or vote Green rather than vote for Hillary. Hillary has been so demonized over the past 20+ years that it's hard to convince people most of it is bullshit. They believe they can get away with voting "their conscience" because we are in a blue state, however, our state isn't all that solid blue like CA is. I also know from caucusing that many Bernie supporters said they were unwilling to vote for HRC if she got the nomination.
Luckily I'm older and will die soon and will not have to watch the millennials, their children, their grandchildren, etc. reap the full consequences if god forbid, Drumpf wins. People are so angry that they are willing to fuck themselves over with "all or nothing" rather than be pragmatic. I'm sincerely hoping that there is still a reasonable, intelligent majority of Americans still left in this country.
Part of me believes Hillary will win, but I'm not taking anything for granted and will ensure I do my best to convince people I know that this is not a fucking game or drill like idiots thought Brexit was.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)away had they taken the time to do some research on the person they so vehemently hate. Knowledge is power. What you don't know can and will hurt you, I always tell my kids.
liberalmuse
(18,670 posts)Back in the 1990's, I actually had a solid rule that I would not date any guy who I caught bad-mouthing Hillary Clinton. It was a very good rule and helped weed out a lot of jerks.
My friends and family mean well, it's just they take it for granted that Hillary is going to win. I had to convince my sister last year when she was making jokes and saying "There's no way Trump will get the Republican nomination" that this isn't funny and he was likely going to be their candidate. Now it's trying to convince everyone that their "vote of conscience" could very well tip the scales they believe are favoring Hillary towards Trump.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I'm seeing people encouraging others to write in Sanders and they are going to be pissed off when they cannot.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)Voters are permitted to choose their own candidates. I am not surprised that some of Bernie's voters will stay home. Some of them have been convinced that Hillary Clinton (of all people) is really a conservative. And, some of them frankly don't care about issues like health care and racial equality as much as they care about trade treaties. I am not surprised that for some voters, Donald Trump is a second choice to Bernie Sanders. Everyone is different.
However, I am confident that most of Bernie's voters will opt for Clinton in November.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)That's facetious, before anyone complains.
But I'm fed up enough with those people that I don't want to give them another damn thing. If they're so stupid they don't think Trump is a problem, there's nothing that will change their mind short of giving Bernie the nomination. Since that's not going to happen, I don't see the point arguing with that brick wall.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... but i hope they become reliable and loyal and responsible and enthusiastic and participating party members and voters.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)The DNC is starting to undertake a huge voter registration drive in states like OH and PA. In OH alone they are trying for 3 million new voters. That will overtake those people you mentioned.
jtunes
(74 posts)because it's pretty hard to bully someone's vote, when they vote in secret
rug
(82,333 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)They are not worth anymore trouble.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)The OP was talking about new voters, mostly young, whom Bernie brought into the process but thus far are not that motivated to come out for Hillary. This was a constructive OP about how to reach those voters and it upsets me to see some of the Hillary supporters write us off as a bunch of stupid kids who don't know what we are doing.
renate
(13,776 posts)Young voters got SUPER excited about Bernie. They have energy and enthusiasm to give, and it would be a shame to squander that. Bernie's supporters could be a huge demographic bubble--like Baby Boomers--that would keep the Democratic party strong for generations if they were made to feel included and valuable. Maybe that'll happen, but it doesn't seem to have happened yet. Even on DU I still perceive a "sucks to be you" vibe from a lot of people (not all, certainly, but a lot) who were Hillary supporters from the beginning.
JI7
(89,182 posts)Yes. He won most of those who did vote but turnout was not that good.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)There are many factors that caused that as well.
1 - Many did not know the election rules, and that they had to be a Democrat by a certain date. By the time they knew about Sanders, their deadline was too late.
2 - Many of his supporters remained Independent and unable to vote in the Primaries.
Then, if some could be believed with the voting irregularities, that is another factor. I am sure much of it was due to poor planning.
Any how, I did work as an election worker in my state. There are quite a few whose precincts suddenly changed and were assigned to a different precinct, so they had to either vote absentee or travel a distance, but again, the majority of the time, I think we ran our area well.
DLCWIdem
(1,558 posts)Even the New York deadline for switching registration was on Bernies website. They weren't interested in doing the work.. all they wanted was to go to the rallies.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Think of it this way, I don't really care who wins for President any more. I'll vote for Hillary but my fight is in local elections.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to convince people to still go and vote, even just for local?
See to me, that is far more important. No matter who wins, it will mitigate the damage of any Administration if you can get the local races down.
Currently the makeup in Congress is:
247(R)
187(D)
Current makeup in Senate is:
54(R)
44(D)
2(I - Caucusing with Democrats)
Now imagine a triple party Majority with a President Trump. This is the nightmare scenario many are flirting with. I've said it a while back, I don't think Hillary can win. I hope that I am wrong, but seeing how things are now, I just really don't see it.
So fine, push away these disaffected individuals, some of whom, I am trying to convince to vote, even if they don't bother with the Presidential level.
You know what's sad? People don't even see it. Much of the behavior they complain about gets cheered as long as it is a topic they agree with or someone they support. I can only see these complaints as hypocritical and missing the point, as they don't bother looking at the underlying issue and reasons for these actions.
Making light of the DNC's methods and disregarding the unfairness is crazy. That basically shows that the DNC as an organization would push their favored candidate, crowding out the possibility of improvement, as insiders tend to resist change. Then, blaming the Russians for it, which is laughable as the Red scare does not quite work with those born after the mid-80s. Glad to see that the one taking over(Donna) is trying to reach out.
So my tact has been lately, is to ask people to vote for the local Democrats, and I don't even address the top ticket any more, and tell them to vote their own conscience. Perhaps in the end it might convince them to vote Democratic... I doubt it, but I am hoping that I can at least get them to the polls.
DLCWIdem
(1,558 posts)Hillarys voters voted for the dem judge not Bernie's voters. As I posted before they only thing mostof these young supporters are interested in is in Bernie.